Meme on AOC: Biden doesn't stand for all the values I do. But I would rather fight for those things in a landscape

[applegrove]

Last edited Sun Apr 21, 2024, 12:08 AM - Edit history (1)

Post by @beingliberal

View on Threads

/?xmt=AQGzeuIuiEnubALRVP1yzXZEXhKchdIWapem70WTbkTshA

See Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez video at link above:

Meme on her words: Biden doesn't stand for all the values I do. But I would rather fight for those things in a landscape where democracy still works, than a landscape of racist, sexist authoritarianism.

(Note: out-take is a representation of what AOC said in the video at the link. For complete language go to video.)

[Scrivener7]

1. Perfect. She's an amazing communicator.

[Celerity]

99. See post 90. Until I see actual real documentaion of that quote, I remain seriously unconvinced it is real.

It is NOT in the video clip the OP posted. I want to see when and where she supososedly said this quote.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218879788#post90

[summer_in_TX]

173. See my reply 172 below.

[Celerity]

174. yes, if you look at multiple other posts I made, the 'quote' does NOT happen in any party of that entire 31 minutes

so it still is entirely undocumented and looking like it is probably a false construction (barring some proof that it is real)

[summer_in_TX]

192. You have a point.

It’s a loosey goose interpretation of what AOC said.

But it doesn’t seem to be contradictory to what she means.

[Celerity]

194. It was posted originally as an exact quote, and the whole

'Biden doesn't stand up for some of my VALUES' is inflammatory and like made up (using meme and a tweet that have zero documentation).

Just look at the thread. That 'values' terminology has been used to attack AOC by some of the posters here.

[sabbat hunter]

119. I am privledged

to live in her CD in Astoria. So happy about that fact.

[cilla4progress]

157. We are fortunate to have her.

She is generally very measured, and younger voters, especially, listen to her.

[FlyingPiggy]

2. Well said. More progressives need to see this.

[Think. Again.]

3. Yes! More moderates need to see it too!

AOC understands that at this point in time, with everything we are all up against, we need to stand united against the bigger threats and leave our smaller differences to be worked out among us sane folks later, when we're all safe!

[FlyingPiggy]

7. Moderates aren't the ones saying they're not going to vote for biden bc they want more progressive policies

It’s the stupid susan sarandons of the left that are the weakest link and are targeted. Like they have been. Like they are now. Hence that one vote whatever crap w Cornell West. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[Lunabell]

10. They are not Democrats!

Don't lump me in with non-Democrats. I am a proud Democrat and progressive.

[Cha]

14. Right.. I'm a Pres Biden Progressive. he gets Things DONE

She's also said..

"This is not a lesser of two evils situation" and "if Trump wins, you won't be able to organize to protest anything"

Pres Biden has his Own "Values" that I support. I don't stand for what AOC stands for but I welcome what she's saying Now.

[Oopsie Daisy]

16. I was hoping for more. But it's better than Nina Turner's "half a bowl of shit" comment.

[Cha]

20. Exponentially Better.. the Polar

Opposite.

I can imagine what ol NT is saying in her bitterness.

[PatSeg]

29. I agree

But I could have done without the "Biden doesn't stand for all the values I do." It is not helpful to start off what appears to be an endorsement with a negative.

It really sounds like "he's the only choice we have". She was basically saying that he is better than "racist, sexist, authoritarianism". That's not terribly supportive. After the last 3 1/2 years, I think President Biden deserves better than that.

[Oopsie Daisy]

38. You are correct. That's exactly what it sounds like.

It was disappointing to hear. Biden did not deserve that.

It would be like me telling a colleague "You've really come a long way with your public speaking. You're not nearly as awkward and sweaty as you used to be."

Or telling my neighbor: "Your lawn looks so lush and green! From a distance you can't even tell it's all crabgrass!"

Or someone telling me: "Look at you, all dressed up. Don't you clean up nice? - almost looks like you have some class for once."

[PatSeg]

43. Ha, ha, ha!

I love your analogies! Said it all so much better than I did.

"You're not nearly as awkward and sweaty as you used to be."

[summer_in_TX]

196. AOC actually did not say "Biden's values are not my values."

That is a distortion. She was far more nuanced and thoughtful, understanding.

The whole interview is worth listening to.

[ramen]

45. We who already stand with Biden are not the audience of that remark.

It seems more like it aimed at the people who are bothsidesing the 2024 election, meaning the portion of the electorate under the unfortunate impression yhat the candidates are both bad.

Those of us already voting for the sane, reasonable, good-hearted, effective one in the race are already in the choir. This is aimed at the rest.

[PatSeg]

48. Perhaps

But she could have shown more respect. He's earned it.

[Hekate]

4. Excellent. I feel like she's really grown into her role, and will be able to achieve great things.

[markodochartaigh]

5. When President Biden was still vice president

he came out for marriage equality even before his president, or most of the Democratic party was ready to endorse marriage equality. And President Biden was the first president to walk a picket line. I wish that we lived in a country where President Biden was the right wing party candidate and Bernie Sanders was the left wing party candidate. But I think that President Biden is about as far left as would be supported by a majority of voters, and more importantly, as far left as any of our oiligarchs would support. Indeed, if the oiligarchs who supported Biden in 2019 had known that he would walk a picket line, increase overtime protections, and be so strong on environmental protection I doubt that he would have been the nominee.

[Think. Again.]

23. Extremely well said! Thank You!

I still have trouble understanding how far to the right some people want the Democratic party to lean, but now isn't the time to bicker over things like that.

[sheshe2]

148. Who?

Who is asking our Democratic party to shift "far to the right"? Name them.

I still have trouble understanding how far to the right some people want the Democratic party to lean,

[betsuni]

155. If Teh Oligarchs want a right-wing government, why did they support Biden? Doesn't make sense.

If they control everything, all-powerful and know everything, they didn't know that Democrats are the progressive party? They, like, totally forgot that Democrats regulate industries and are the party of the working/middle class? Democratic voters want the party to shift far to the right? That doesn't make sense either. They'd vote for Republicans, third party or not vote if that were the case. I don't get it!

[sheshe2]

162. IKR?!

We want to shift far right? That is crazy.

I don't get their post, perhaps they will explain. If we wanted to be there, and we don't, then we would be republicans and we are not.

I am not a moderate dem...I am Progressive Democrat that knows and understands how the government works and there are times you just can't get everything you want. Concessions are made and you have to work with that. You don't just take the ball and go home if you don't get what you want.

[betsuni]

168. Evidently three "oligarchs" forced voters to choose Biden in the primary and if only

a Left-enough president was elected 'anything they wanted would easily be passed in Congress regardless of Republican control of the House and 50-50 Senate because of the myth of the Magic Purity Bully Pulpit.

And remember, we Democrats here on DU (a forum for supporters of the Democratic Party which is the progressive party) are secretly all wealthy old Republican shut-ins THREATENED by strong intelligent women of color and HATERZ of anything progressive.

[sheshe2]

171. Okay.

You just gave me a .

Perfect.

Boom!

[markodochartaigh]

167. "The Oiligarchs"

are not one homogeneous entity. There are authoritarian oiligarchs like Eric Prince, the Texas oilmen, Putin, and Mohammed Bone Sawman (nationality is irrelevant here), there are oiligarchs like the Koch bros who are authoritarian but prefer to maintain some veneer of democracy in the US, there are bankster oiligarchs from right (Mnuchin, the foreclosure king, the bankruptcy king Wilbur Ross) to "left" Blankfein, Dimon, Bloomberg, the US is owned by many oiligarchs, with a wide array of preferences. Without support from some oiligarchs no candidate on a national scale can be successful.
As for some Democratic voters wanting the party to shift to the right, there are many voters who would vote for a Democratic candidate but they can't support a candidate who supports abortion. Or they won't support a candidate who wants to restrict gun availability in any way. This doesn't even address the mass of people who vote Democratic but don't want national health care, or the massive levels of government spending that would be necessary to upgrade US infrastructure after 40 years of neglect. And President Biden walking the picket line? I'm sure that you could find Democratic voters in many areas who were not happy with that. And, even now, it sure isn't 100% of Democratic voters who are in favor of marriage equality. It's a big tent and a lot of it is paid for by wealthy people who don't have much in common with most of us, and it is filled with people who are happier on the right side of the tent, or happier on the left side, or just walk back and forth. But it is a tent, not a dumpster fire where psychopaths, sociopaths, authoritarians, and fools roast weenies and howl their hateful rhetoric into the abyss.

[betsuni]

179. "Without support from some oligarchs no candidate on a national scale can be successful"

How and why? Carter, Clinton, Obama and Biden were not corrupt elite upper class presidents controlled by oligarchs and money. How do oligarchs control voting and rig primaries? Do they pay voters or what? How many Democrats voted to repeal the ACA and for Trump tax cuts for the rich. NONE. How are they the same then? By saying the word "neoliberal"?

The Democratic base aren't right-wing, they're the working class. The Democratic Party has NOT ignored the working/middle class. Republican voters know this, why doesn't everyone? Oh, I know why.

[betsuni]

151. What oligarchs supported Biden in 2019?

[markodochartaigh]

160. Bloomberg, Dimon, and Blankfein

who famously said that he might vote for Trump if Bernie were the nominee. I'm sure that there are many others, remember when the Democratic party was trying to come up with a candidate in 2019, and they were having endless discussions to find someone acceptable? They needed someone acceptable to oiligarchs who can and will pay big money to support a campaign, not Mr. and Mrs. Hoi Polloi who can't be counted upon to send in their $27.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-21/blankfein-says-he-might-vote-for-trump-over-sanders


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-21/blankfein-says-he-might-vote-for-trump-over-sanders

[LisaM]

6. He's probably more in line with her values than she thinks.

He's had 50 years to realize that compromise is essential.

For instance, we all want single payer health care. All of us. But you can't wave a wand and get it. Dems have been talking about single payer (only we didn't used to be afraid to call it Socialized Medicine) since Teddy Kennedy in the 1970s -at least.

[Think. Again.]

25. Yep, I also think Progressive values are the core of Democratic party values....

....it' even in the DU core values!

"Members are not expected to hold across-the-board progressive opinions on every single issue, but we do expect members to be generally progressive and to support Democrats at election time -- remember that and respect it when posting. Harsh, divisive, partisan attacks against Democrats or progressive values (from the right or the left) are not welcome here."

[PatSeg]

33. Exactly

Biden has given progressives so much that they had asked for and I've no doubt he would give more if he could get it through congress. Just imagine what he could do if he is reelected with majorities in both the House and the Senate. Even Bernie Sanders has acknowledged that and shown great support for Biden.

Would it be so hard for her to say something more positive than the President "doesn't stand for the values I do"? If someone said that about me, I'd take it as an insult.

This close to a truly important election, it is probably better to remain silent if you can't give your full and unwavering support for our candidate.

[intheflow]

193. What she's saying is,

adults can disagree and still work together, we don’t need purity tests or to walk in lockstep together to support democracy and vote for Biden. I mean, I don’t agree with everything anyone else thinks or does, including the president. To suggest we should be a blind cheerleaders would make us no different from MAGA. We should all be speaking these truths.

[PatSeg]

197. My comment was made before further comments

in this thread that indicated that Ocasio-Cortez may not have said what was written in the meme. My issue was with the reference to "values". I have no problem with someone not agreeing with Biden on some policies, as I don't always agree with him either, but bringing up values had a negative connotation to it that I felt wasn't supportive.

That said, someone pointed out that the quote did not show up in the video. It is entirely possible that she never said anything about Biden not sharing all her values. There are numerous comments about the discrepancy later in the thread. Obviously, without the dismissive reference to Biden's values, I have no issue with her support for Biden.

[betsuni]

59. Yes they are. Goals are same, not about values/morals but reality of legislature.

Universal health care, health care as a human right, has been a liberal Democratic idea and goal for the last 100 years or so -- thinking ACA with a public option will be the fastest way to eventual universal health care in the U.S. rather than waiting for enough votes to pass a Medicare for All is NOT about values or morals.

[calimary]

8. EXCELLENT AOC Quote!

[patphil]

9. One thing you find about Democracy is that there is never a candidate that stands for everything you do.

There is always a bit of compromise; give and take; that goes on so the most people get the best they can from what laws are passed.
Being able to recognize and accept that the end result is usually going to well serve the most people is what holds a Democracy together.

[deepblue]

11. AOC has insulted Biden.

"Biden doesn't stand for all the values I do."

What values does AOC have that Biden does not? Does Biden want billionaire nazis running roughshod over the country? Does he want children to starve? Genocide and murder? What?

If she means disagreement how to achieve goals, I can see that, assuming she would be more specific about those disagreements.

"Values," no, she should not have said that. AOC says she wants good things for people. Biden does too. And if what AOC says, is actually good for people, Biden wants those things too. Let AOC describe where her values differ from Biden's. Put up or shut up.

Approaches, yes and maybe. Values, no.

[Oopsie Daisy]

17. Yes. Thank you. You and I think alike.

[Think. Again.]

27. I appreciate her attempt to find a bridge at this important time....

....being divisive right now could be ruinous to us all.

[PatSeg]

35. Yes, a very poor choice of words

She might want to walk that back. I agree with everything you said.

[Hekate]

46. AOC has not insulted Biden. She has not damned him with faint praise, either. What's happened, I think...

…is that AOC has matured/is maturing into a politician who will know when and how to compromise with fellow Democrats in order to accomplish mutual goals and move us forward. (Similar to Biden’s long and enduring Senate record, then VP, and now Prez)

I have watched her political career with great interest, because she is so bright, is a passionate speaker, and has such potential. She started out with The Squad, but I don’t have the same optimistic feelings for the futures of some of the others who began their House terms along with her.

[Ninga]

109. The pudding is not in compromising with other Democrats

The skill, wisdom, smarts is found in successful legislation when compromising and negotiating with the R’s.
Just me.

[Hekate]

131. That, too.

[Celerity]

132. That 'quote' has zero documenation that it is real. See my multiple posts on this thread on the subject.

It certainly is not in the video clip provided by the OP (nor was it in the entire video from where the clip was pulled).

It came (as admitted by the OP) from a random meme and quotes of the meme, all of which have no time, place, event listed whatsoever in terms of when and where AOC said (or wrote) it.

[sheshe2]

12. Just out of curiosity...

Does she list all the values she holds and he disagrees with?

[Oopsie Daisy]

18. Exactly. What TF was that supposed to mean?

It's an honest assessment of the political landscape, but it's really not the compliment that some are making it out to be. As I said to someone just a moment ago, at least it's better than the "half a bowl of shit" comment from Nina Turner.

[Think. Again.]

28. That wasn't really part of the question she was answering...

....or of the discussion she was engaged in.

In fact, I'd say she was trying to AVOID being divisive at this moment in time, and that's something I strongly suggest we ALL try to do.

[PatSeg]

36. I don't think she succeeded in avoiding being divisive

It came across as quite negative.

[Think. Again.]

39. I disagree.

[PatSeg]

44. That happens

[Think. Again.]

51. Yep.

[sheshe2]

170. Okay then.

Perhaps she can enlighten us at another time and place. I would like to see a list of the values she holds that he disagrees with.

Is it the Climate?

FACT SHEET: President Biden to Catalyze Global Climate Action through the Major Economies Forum on Energy and Climate

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/04/20/fact-sheet-president-biden-to-catalyze-global-climate-action-through-the-major-economies-forum-on-energy-and-climate/

Israel?

Readout of President Joe Biden’s Call with Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel
HOME
BRIEFING ROOM
STATEMENTS AND RELEASES
President Biden spoke by telephone with Prime Minister Netanyahu. The two leaders discussed the situation in Gaza. President Biden emphasized that the strikes on humanitarian workers and the overall humanitarian situation are unacceptable. He made clear the need for Israel to announce and implement a series of specific, concrete, and measurable steps to address civilian harm, humanitarian suffering, and the safety of aid workers. He made clear that U.S. policy with respect to Gaza will be determined by our assessment of Israel’s immediate action on these steps. He underscored that an immediate ceasefire is essential to stabilize and improve the humanitarian situation and protect innocent civilians, and he urged the Prime Minister to empower his negotiators to conclude a deal without delay to bring the hostages home. The two leaders also discussed public Iranian threats against Israel and the Israeli people. President Biden made clear that the United States strongly supports Israel in the face of those https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/04/04/readout-of-president-joe-bidens-call-with-prime-minister-netanyahu-of-israel-3/.

Fact:
Biden is the President of the United States, not Israel. Do you want all Israels punished for the visous attack by Netanyahu? Think for a moment, if tfg did something similar do you wish all Americans be held responsible for him insane actions?

It could happen.

[Celerity]

163. The quote is completely undocumented, and quite possibly invented by a person making a meme with

zero support for it (as to when it was said, where, etc.)

The OP said the source of the quote is meme and a tweet quoting the meme (or vice versa).

None of those sources offer any documentation backing it up.

Also, that video clip in the OP does not contain the quote, nor does the full interview that the clip was pulled from.

I can find no legitimate, factually valid sources for AOC saying:

"Biden doesn't stand for all the values I do. But I would rather fight for those things in a landscape where democracy still works, than a landscape of racist, sexist authoritarianism."

Especially problematic is the claim she said or wrote

Biden doesn't stand for all the values I do.

I would be pretty surprised if she used that sort of loaded language, especially given her many other statements supporting Biden full stop for re-election.

Until I see actual valid sourcing, I consider it absolutely unproven and quite possibly a manufactured quote.

[twodogsbarking]

13. She has a different perspective than Joe. He could maybe say the same.

[PatSeg]

37. I think Joe would say it more diplomatically

[Oopsie Daisy]

47. Perhaps he would say something like *

"I respect their passion for the issues they care most about." Or even... "We may not always agree on how to achieve our goals and objectives, but we're headed in the same direction and we know the value of working together to get there."

Joe Biden is a class act.

[PatSeg]

50. Oh wow, yes!

That is pretty much how I imagine he would speak about another Democrat that he doesn't always agree with.

[Oopsie Daisy]

15. Well, that's better than nothing. I'll take it, I guess.

Her assessment of the "landscape" is correct, but there's a bit of passive-aggressiveness in that "endorsement" (or whatever it might actually be characterized as). I'm a bit disappointed in anyone who feels that it's necessary to take backhanded swipe at Biden's values.

[applegrove]

19. Oh I think she is trying to appeal to far lefties and

those against Israel.

[PatSeg]

40. That's the word I was looking for

"Passive-aggressive".

[betsuni]

70. +1

[COL Mustard]

21. That's the difference

I don't have to worship Biden (or any other politician) to want him or her to continue in office. I gladly voted for Biden in 2020 and will gladly do so again this year, but where I have differences with his policies I don't have any problem calling those out. The withdrawal from Afghanistan was a disaster. The current Israel/Gaza conflict is another area where we could do more. But I can criticize him (and the administration) without feeling cognitively dissonant. The MAGAs I know can't do that.

[SocialDemocrat61]

30. The withdrawal from Afghanistan was more Trump's fault

due to the bad deals he agreed to and reducing troop numbers there before Biden was elected. But the corporate media decided to spin it all against Biden.

[COL Mustard]

142. I agree Biden got handed a soup sandwich

But the intelligence community were caught off guard by the speed of the ANA's collapse, and the Afghan government's collapse.

[SocialDemocrat61]

189. That still didn't make it Biden's fault.

Trump damaged the workings of all parts of the government. Biden couldn’t magically fix the all in a few months.

[Upthevibe]

22. applegrove............

Thank you for this.

I love AOC!

[applegrove]

24. You're welcome.

[The_Zephyr]

26. Same Here!

Well said, Rep. AOC.

[GB_RN]

31. Too Many People...

Are willing to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. They’re mad at Biden because they didn’t get their sparkle pony that shits skittles and farts rainbows, so they say they won’t vote for him or will vote third party, to “teach the Democrats a lesson.”
They’re too stupid and self absorbed to realize that 1) they aren’t teaching anyone a lesson and 2) the people they’re actually punishing are all the rest of us when we’re stuck with a Reichwing trifecta. And this time, we might not recover from it.

I can’t stand these idiots any more than I do the MAGAts.

[SocialDemocrat61]

34. Those on the purity left

don’t really care about the issues they say they do. They just want to sanctimoniously sit on their high horse to pretend they are morally superior to everyone else to feed their egos.

[GB_RN]

42. Hope That Moral Superiority Tastes Good...

When they fuck all of us over and then the fascist bastards come to impose their will on them, too. If they don’t think that Leonard Leo (aided and abetted by Scammy Alito, Clarence “Uncle Slappy” Thomas, etc) and all his ilk aren’t chomping at the bit for that opportunity, they’re even dumber than I thought.

[Celerity]

80. Funny thing that. ALL of the major big ticket items in Biden's agenda that were blocked were blocked by

centrists and conservative Dems, including Manchin, Sinema, the House Blue Dogs, and the No Labels spawned Problem Solverd House caucus, whi worked hand in glove with Manchim and Sinema.

The progressives not only did NOT block a single one pr part of Biden's big ticket agenda items, they fought like hell against the centrist and conservative Dems to try and get them passed.

So there is your actual purity test. Just not the way some here try to spin it.

The furthesst to therightward direction of the Dem party almost always has to get it's way or they far too often block things or take an axe to them (like the 2 Biden infrastructure bills, where the centrists and conservative Dems roreoff over 5.1 trillion USD in new spend from Bidens two frameworks (his had 6.1 trillion USD in new soend), leaving only a total of 985 billion USD in new spend for BOTH bils combined, spread out over ten years).

The progresssives accepted an over 90% reduction from their original two frameworks. They reduced nothing for Biden's frameworks, they blocked nothing in the Biden frameworks.

[SocialDemocrat61]

86. I wasn't referring to progressive democrats in congress

I was referring to Jill Stein voters who are independents and not democrats.

[Celerity]

91. ok, but that old purity test as an anti-progressive weapon and framing definitely has floated around here since I joined

[SocialDemocrat61]

94. Still not what I was referring to

I was talking about people who are now calling Bernie Sanders and AOC sell outs for supporting President Biden.

[Celerity]

97. I acknowledged that in my reply to you. I now know what you meant.

[SocialDemocrat61]

100. Great 👍

[Celerity]

101. all good!

[SocialDemocrat61]

32. Of course all the AOC haters are coming out of the woodwork

spinning what she said as negatively as possible. It is amazing to me that even in this forum, there are still some who are threatened by an intelligent woman of color.

[unblock]

52. Fascinating to see the people who say the don't like aoc because she's a purist

now parsing her words and objecting to her because her support for Biden wasn't pure enough.

[applegrove]

56. I call it AI Russian Chinese replies. They appear whenever someone's

good Democratic idea is reposted and about to become an internet meme for Biden.

[sheshe2]

60. Haters?

Disagreeing with someone does not make them a hater. Your wording is harsh and you should temper it. There is no need to use that word here against fellow DUers.

As for feeling threatened by an "intelligent woman of color" , that is a ridiculous assumption on your part. MVP is an intelligent woman of color and has done amazing work for the ticket and for our country. A lot of people don't like her here, I would never call them haters however much I disagree with them.

[SocialDemocrat61]

67. The lady doth protest too much, methinks

[sheshe2]

72. Excuse me?

Care to elaborate on that remark?

[SocialDemocrat61]

73. No

[Oopsie Daisy]

75. Naturally.

[SocialDemocrat61]

79. Who's on first!

[sheshe2]

84. IKR?!

[sheshe2]

96. Why am I not surprised.

[madaboutharry]

104. You do have the awareness that you posted a sexist remark, don't you?

[betsuni]

88. It's hilarious.

And the line is supposed to be "threatened by a strong progressive woman of color" anyway.

VP Kamala "The Invisible Woman" Harris has been stamped with the ESTABLISHMENT CENTRIST STATUS QUO label and can't be a strong progressive intelligent woman of color.

[sheshe2]

103. This sums it up nicely.

"The Invisible Woman" Harris has been stamped with the ESTABLISHMENT CENTRIST STATUS QUO label and can't be a strong progressive intelligent woman of color.

People ask, what has she done. I have posted plenty, network news seldom carries her events.


Sad, isn't it.

[betsuni]

182. The weaponization of the word "progressive" against the Democratic Party has done a lot

of damage.

[RandiFan1290]

185. They are even allowed to make racist comments about 'the Squad'

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15566290

This is disgusting

[betsuni]

187. Why do you like Nina Turner?

[RandiFan1290]

188. "The Woke Tan Clan"

Who would support racist comments like this?

[betsuni]

190. Why do you like Nina Turner?

[et tu]

41. breathe duers

biden, aoc and we are on the same team-
unite and vote~

[Think. Again.]

110. Thank You!!!

[Autumn]

49. I agree with her 100%. I don't always agree with Biden but nothing will keep me from

voting for him.

[Oopsie Daisy]

54. What values does AOC have that Biden does not?

[Autumn]

61. She didn't go into that. Maybe she figures the fact that she supports him is enough.

You can always go talk to her and ask. There are few politician that share my values but I still vote for them.

[Oopsie Daisy]

64. You're the one who indicated you agreed with her. What exactly are you agreeing to?

Which values does she have that Joe Biden does not share? You must have some idea if you're in "100%" agreement.

[Autumn]

66. I didn't indicate it. I fucking said it. I know what values I have that Joe doesn't share

so I agree with her statement 100% that Joe has values that she doesn't share. I doubt she's lying about it. Call her. You can google her office phone I'm sure.

[Oopsie Daisy]

71. Which values would those be?

[Autumn]

76. None of your business what my values are, just I have no need to know about yours. nt

[Think. Again.]

111. Don't let yourself be baited.

[Autumn]

118. Not going to happen. I owe nobody any explanation. My friends and family know.

That's all that matters. And IMO AOC owes nobody anything either and her haters will complain no matter what she says.

[betsuni]

93. I'm interested in knowing this, too, but I guess it's none of our beeswax.

Maybe not so important after all.

[Oopsie Daisy]

115. But... still supporting it 100%!

@ "beeswax". That reminds me of something that the snippy Maj. Frank Burns would always say on MASH. Perfect! He's a classic!

[betsuni]

180. It all comes back to: If you can't make it about policy because there's only a difference in strategy

and not goals, make it about emotion and morals. "Oh God, in any other country Joe Biden and I would not be in the same party, but in America we are."

[Oopsie Daisy]

181. Yes, I remember that awful statement! What a rotten thing to say.

Was there ever an apology or retraction for having said such an ugly and insulting thing? (I doubt it.)

[betsuni]

183. No there wasn't, far as I know. Not some countries, ANY other country.

Wow

[MerryBlooms]

166. Can you li nk to the video or transcript you agree with? The Op video doesn't exist for me when tried to watch.

Thanks 🥰

[Autumn]

191. No, the OP link now shows a meme but you can look at posts 90 and 108.

[walkingman]

53. I think AOC has a bright future in our party. I agree with her.

[Gore1FL]

55. It's amazing. AOC comes out in supoprt of Biden, and we have DUers criticizing her for it.

Right on schedule...

[Oopsie Daisy]

57. Nobody here is criticizing the actual "support" part of what she said.

It was a statement that had two parts. The only thing that's amazing is that anyone defends the passive aggressive backhanded insult. That's what is being criticized.

[SocialDemocrat61]

58. But it wasn't an insult

some are just going out of their way to spin as one. Says more about them than it does about AOC.

[Oopsie Daisy]

62. Of course it was. She's saying that Joe Biden doesn't share her values.

That's an insult. At the very least, anyone who makes passive aggressive statements like that (or those who defend and excuse it on her behalf) should stand explain to everyone exactly which values she has that Joe Biden lacks.

>> Says more about them...
It says that they are loyal Democrats who will proudly defend Joe Biden from backhanded swipes and give our full and unqualified support for our party's nominee. --- Looking back, there were likely many folks who thought Nina Turner's comment that "voting for Trump was like being served a bowl of shit" but that voting for Biden "was like being served a HALF bowl of shit" was some sort of "compliment," too.

[SocialDemocrat61]

65. No it wasn't

It’s just intellectually dishonest spin. She’s supporting Biden and doesn’t owe the semantics police an explanation for her wording.

[Oopsie Daisy]

74. Nothing dishonest at all about it. She said what she said *

>> It’s just intellectually dishonest spin.
... and the only "intellectually dishonest spin" (to use your words) is coming from individuals, fans and assorted pundits who are trying to depart from reality and want reasonable people to believe that it wasn't a swipe (when it clearly was) and that she didn't mean anything negative about it.

"Biden doesn't stand for all the values I do" is a negative statement and an insult. She's saying that Biden is lacking in values. Why? Which values does he lack?

[SocialDemocrat61]

77. No It's not

Just repeating that it was over and over, won’t make it true. AOC spoke in support of President Biden. No reason to try to spin it into something bad. Don’t make the perfect the enemy of the good.

[Oopsie Daisy]

81. It was a cheap shot, an insult, and unnecessary *

* there was nothing "good" about "Biden doesn't stand for all the values I do."

She could have said "we don't always see eye-to-eye on the issues"... that would have been better, right? Instead the unnecessary insinuation is that Biden lacks values.

[SocialDemocrat61]

87. No it wasn't

Saying that it was over and over, won’t change that.

[Oopsie Daisy]

89. Pretending that it wasn't ham-handed won't make it eloquent and thoughtful.

It was a cheap shot, an insult, and unnecessary there was nothing "good" or positive about "Biden doesn't stand for all the values I do."

She could have said "we don't always see eye-to-eye on the issues"... that would have been better, right? That would have been a more neutral and respectful way to acknowledge political differences. Instead the unnecessary insinuation and insult is her belief that Biden "lacks" values.

[SocialDemocrat61]

95. It wasn't

AOC spoke in support of President Biden. We should be celebrating that, not playing semantics games to be divisive about it.

[Oopsie Daisy]

112. Insinuating that Biden lacks values is not supportive.

[SocialDemocrat61]

120. It doesn't in any way insinuate that Biden lacks values

That’s just dishonest spin.

[Gore1FL]

106. The need to find fault with what she said is typical of the people who like to find fault with her

There was nothing wrong with her statement. There are those who just wish to pick nits when ever they see those three letters.

[Oopsie Daisy]

114. No nits are being picked. It's perfectly reasonable to expect elected officials to *

* be able to speak in ways that acknowledge differences without resorting to insults and backhanded comments. It was a cheap shot, an insult, and unnecessary there was nothing "good" or positive about "Biden doesn't stand for all the values I do."

She could have said "we don't always see eye-to-eye on the issues"... that would have been better, right? That would have been a more neutral and respectful way to acknowledge political differences. Instead the unnecessary insinuation and insult is her belief that Biden "lacks" values.

I'm not being unreasonable.

[Gore1FL]

117. Get over it.

Acknowledging the absense of a perfect candidate but voting for the best one is a unifying argument. Stop twisting good into reasons to compalin.

[SocialDemocrat61]

122. It is amazing

how some are so triggered by her. Say more about them than it does about her.

[Goddessartist]

200. Yep.

Believe people when they show you who they are.

[Oopsie Daisy]

123. And people defended Nina Turner's "half bowl of shit" statement about Biden *

* because she compared Trump to a FULL bowl of shit... therefore, it was a compliment?? Or something.

>> Acknowledging the absense of a perfect candidate but voting for the best one is a unifying argument.
If only that were actually the case. Inflammatory rhetoric may grab attention, but it rarely furthers substantive dialogue even when it's half-good and half-bad or half-supportive and half-insulting. It is possible to call out the insulting part separately from the "supportive" part. I can hold two separate thoughts in my brain at the same time. It's not that hard to do.

>> Stop twisting good into reasons to compalin.
Whenever anyone thinks it's a good idea to insinuate that Biden lacks values, it's a very good reason to "compalin". Saying something like that is not going to move the conversation in a productive direction.

[Gore1FL]

124. I didn't mention Nina Turner. I am not accepting the new goal posts.

Have a great day.

[Oopsie Daisy]

125. No need to run away. It's a perfectly valid comparison.

>> Have a great day.
But, whatever. Bye. See-ya!

[Gore1FL]

135. Not running. Simply not participating.

Please take your need to divide somewhere other than where I am .

Thanks.

[ananda]

63. From this yellowdawg, liberal Democrat -- right on!

!!!

[PatrickforB]

68. I like AOC just fine. She knows her stuff and has grown. As to Biden, he has been wildly better than

I imagined he would be. Downright transformative. His first term has been outstanding. Second term will be better.

[Celerity]

69. Well said AOC!!

[Oopsie Daisy]

78. As supportive statements go, this one seems a bit ham handed to me.

Her assessment of the "landscape" and the consequences were right on target, but she blew it with the passive-aggressive swipe that "Biden doesn't stand for all the values I do." It was unnecessary and it strikes me as a cheap shot that is unlikely to achieve anything positive.

[Celerity]

82. No, it was great. nt

[applegrove]

85. It was perfect. Well said. Great meme. Speaks to those

Last edited Sat Apr 20, 2024, 08:22 PM - Edit history (1)

who are far left or anti-Israel in this awful war.

[Oopsie Daisy]

92. Huh? Are you saying that she's "code talking" to let people know she's anti-Israel?

WHAT?? That's what it sounds like you're saying, but I hope that's not what you actually meant.

[applegrove]

98. No. I am saying some people have no tolerance for Israel in this war.

She's not code talking. She speaking to all those who would make the perfect the enemy of the good.

[elocs]

83. Let's hope that all Progressive Democrats are as smart as AOC & get out and vote for Biden.

Because either he or Trump will be our next president. That's it. In what alternate universe would anyone on the Left want to see Trump be president again?

[Celerity]

90. Where did she say the following quote you posted?

"Biden doesn't stand for all the values I do. But I would rather fight for those things in a landscape where democracy still works, than a landscape of racist, sexist authoritarianism."

That is certainly NOT in that video clip you posted.

Please provide solid documentation of where and when she said what you are quoting her as saying.

[applegrove]

102. On top of the video is the meme I quoted. It is at the same link posted by

a Threads poster called being liberal.

[Celerity]

105. There is NO documentation info in that meme whatsoever. No time, date, or place she said it. Anyone could make it up.

It certainly is not in that clip you posted.

Until I see actual documentation with a real source (not some random meme with no info as to where that so-called exact quote came from) I remain unconvinced it is a real quote.

[SocialDemocrat61]

107. Other than the meme

which has been posted all over social media, I can’t find any evidence that she actually said this.

[Celerity]

113. Unless the OP can provide documentation that proves that is not a fake quote, this OP should be taken down.

AOC did NOT say

"Biden doesn't stand for all the values I do. But I would rather fight for those things in a landscape where democracy still works, than a landscape of racist, sexist authoritarianism."

anywhere in the entire 31 minute interview (where the clip came from).

I also have searched pretty hard and there is nothing but that meme, a memeless tweet quoting what the meme said (again with no documentation in that tweet) and then DU (this thread) that is coming up so far.

Anyone could make up that meme, and the fact there is no time, nor date, nor place/event listed on it makes it suspect, as it (the meme) is utterly undocumented.

[applegrove]

108. Someone named Pam Keith on twitter said it was from AOC.

I've read a few of her posts on Twitter and she looks like good people to me. Look at both links to find out more. Applegrove

Link to tweet

Pam Keith, Esq.
@PamKeithFL
CEO of Center for Employment Justice LLC, 2020 Dem Cong. Nominee, ex-Navy JAG, litigator & expert on workplace law. BC Law Grad. AKA (she/her)

https://twitter.com/PamKeithFL

[Celerity]

116. yes, I already discussed that tweet in my last reply, and again, there is NO documentation in that tweet whatsoever

Until I see actual sourcing, legit documentation, I absolutely remain unconvinced that this is a real quote.

I think if you cannot find the actual source event and her actual speech (or if she wrote it, her writing) where AOC supposedly said this, you should take this OP down.

As it stands, that meme is nowhere near documented enough to be considered a real quote.

This is, atm, until proven otherwise, very much illustrative of the true danger of social media IMHO.

[Think. Again.]

121. Personally, I think it's a good OP...

...even if the quote is just a paraphrasing of what AOC says in the linked video, it does express the truth that although some have differences with Biden on certain issues, there is still an imperative to vote him into the Presidency for a second term and to NOT allow trump (or any rightwingers) anywhere near the halls of power.

[applegrove]

127. I thought it was a good meme too. We try our best.

[Celerity]

129. Until proven otherwise it is a suspect and likely false quote. If she said policies, then zero controversies, BUT

the suspect meme (and tweets that quote the meme) uses the highly loaded and negatively stated

"Biden doesn't stand for all the values I do.

There are zero points of reference given, no date, time, no place, no event listed where she supposedly said those exact words or wrote those exact words (as that is what a quote is, exact words). Anyone witha meme generator could have made it up. The Occupy Democrats grifters are notorious for this (in between donating to Moscow Mitch).

The video clip that the OP posted did not contain that quote, nor did the entire 31 minuted interview it was taken from.

All I see when I search it is the meme, a tweet about the meme, and then thsi DU thread. No documentaion anywhere in any of those.

I am utterly unconvinced that it is a real quote until I see real documentation.

Also, look at this thread. Some have taken the 'values' part and have run with it in order to drag AOC.

It also is, IF this is a fake quote, another example of the divisive power of social media.

[Think. Again.]

138. As I mentioned, it is a good paraphrase of her stance if not a direct quote....

.... It correctly reflects her excellent point that despite some differences, we must vote for Biden.

As far those who are trying to cause division, they have been, and will continue to, do that no matter what is posted anywhere. It's part of why we must stick together and give Democrats a massive Blue Wave across the board in spite of their efforts to divide us.

[Celerity]

139. It is not presented as a paraphrase, and also it uses loaded language (values) that incites division as it paints

AOC in a less neutral, more problematic light. Look at the thread. That 'vales' part is the cause of much argy bargy.

I am sorry but playing fast and lose with paraphrase versus quote framings is not ok for starters, and IF it is, as I suspect, not even a real quote, then it is even more of an issue.

[applegrove]

126. Here is a quote from Jan. where AOC uses the word "landscape"

Meet the Press - January 28, 2024

https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-press-january-28-2024-n1308484


Here is her answer to KRISTEN WELKER:

"SNIP..........

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ:

Well, you know, I think we can take a look at the overall landscape here. It's not just what we're talking about with President Biden, but former President Trump also has extraordinary vulnerabilities. We saw that in New Hampshire. The fact that he is a former sitting president, head of his party, virtually everyone else has dropped out and endorsed him, and still, as we just saw, Nikki Haley came – you know, she cleared about 43% in New Hampshire, bodes very not well for Donald Trump and his ability to win a general election. When it comes to President Biden, you know, I think we need to really focus and understand that young people are a very strong part of this electorate. We have a diverse coalition in the Democratic Party that has its own concerns, whether it is what's happening in Gaza or – or any other number of issues. But right now, I think November's going to be about the coalition we can put together and the policy progress we can make between now and then.

...........SNIP"

Applegrove:

I know a word is not proof. But it helps.

[Celerity]

175. it doesn't help, a random word used in entirely different setting is not proof in the slightest that the quote is real

It really is looking like it was a constructed, made up quote so far

If she had actually said it, surely it would have been all over DU (other than this thread or any others that refer back onto this OP ex post facto) and the internet.

You know me well enough from here I would hope that you are aware I have debunked so many faulty posts on DU. I am not at all hesitant to engage when I see something suspect. It has happened on a multiplicity of subjects.

[applegrove]

176. I just didn't want to put up the idea as a video alone. I wanted

the idea in the title. I am an idea person. Sorry if we were at cross purposes tonight.

[Celerity]

177. I am an idea person as well. But I also adhere to factual groundings and documentation for claims.

This OP triggered my spidey sense as soon as I went looking for context when some of the posters (not hard to find here on the thread) starting banging on AOC over the supposed 'Biden doesn't stand for all the values I do.' part of the so-called quote.

I have looked and looked and see no remotely viable legit sourcing documentation as of now.

I am absolutely open to retract it all (and open to criticising AOC for a fairly poorly worded expression of her framing) as long as I am shown legit proof she actually said or wrote it.

I am an honest broker (or strive to be as best I can here) when it comes to my DU positings. Facts and truth matter, and I do not like to see division spread off what is perhaps a meme potentially woven from whole cloth, or at least altered to the point it disinforms and enflames.

I am so worn down here by the seismic bifurcation that has occurred here since Oct 7. If the board is also going to drift further into a zone where verification-seeking and due dillgence are met with not just indifference but in some cases antipathy, then I will arrive at a crossroads in terms of my continuance here.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

184. Thank you for pursuing this, Celerity

We as Democrats should always fight for truth, and if those words were not actually spoken by AOC, then it must be made clear that it is one person's interpretation of same. As we have seen, some interpretations can be truly divisive.

Thanks again

[Celerity]

195. Do not forget that intim the OP edited it, is was presented for hours as an exact quote.

Not as some sort of 'interpretation '. An interpretation btw that still is inflammatory.

As far as I can see, the whole thing is false. I see no documentation laid out, despite so many requests. Show the documentation (anyone please) and I absolutely will withdraw my objections.

[blogslug]

128. Here is the full video

I think it's a paraphrase as opposed to a literal quote. AOC expresses the same sentiment but her actual words are slightly different.

[Celerity]

130. Yes, I watched the whole thing (as I have stated already) and the quote is NOT in it at all, she did not say those words

in that entire interview.

So far there is zero actual documentation anywhere that shows it is a real quote.

Random memes and tweets quoting said memes do not count unless they list date, time, event/place or article (if she wrote those words) or some other way to show the actual real source that shows AOC said the words presented as a quote of her.

[blogslug]

133. Well

I think the words were a paraphrase of a similar sentiment made by AOC, as I already posted. So, I'm backing out of this because I am old and tired.

[applegrove]

134. I think they just got inspiration from her. Remember

MLK statue went up in Washington and they had shortened his drum major quote to fit on the stone. That was scandalous so they changed it because it was history and in stone. But a campaign is different than history. Many, many meme are made up. If we have to reference every single thing said we are putting ourselves at a disadvantage. Think of them like so many slogans.

[Celerity]

137. The quote is very much unproven, and uses loaded language (the 'values' part) This thread is very divisive based off

that quote, a quote from a completely undocumented meme and/or a tweet with no documentation either.

The thread has many many views and interactions, and will perhaps become a foundation in the erecting of a false (unless the quote is shown to be real) DU staple for those with an inclination to put AOC in a negative light.

As of now, I see no evidence to consider it proven as a real quote.

[applegrove]

140. I think it is great and speaks to something important:

don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Of course left wingers have different values. When Bernie was in second place in the nomination race of 2020 I supported him because he was for implementing Medicare for all asap. Living in Canada and having access to such Healthcare, I dropped Biden and followed Bernie. An american had written about the troubles they had, dangerous healthcare problems, and they could not get help. I went with my gut and threw away my support for Biden for a few weeks. Then I realized I was being Susan Saradon and was immune to the problems a second Trump term would bring being Canadian (Saradon is wealthy). So I went back to Biden. And I don't regret that one bit. But protecting government healthcare for all is the number one issue for Canadians. See. Different values. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. That goes for slogans and meme too, not just for lefties thinking about how to vote. It is a good, effective quote even if it is just capturing her words in a more concise way than what she said. You can tell by all the AI Sino-Russian trolls it is effective. I use their pressence and attempt to derail the idea as a green light to me :you must find more quotes like this" and "bingo!". AOC is an explorer who comes up with new and salient ideas all the time. Then people who are not like her take her ideas and evolve and use them to communicate ideas. I hope this relationship continues as it is. It is completely how it is supposed to be.

[Celerity]

141. I think it is pretty problematic to take an entirely undocumented meme and then present is as a quote, a quote

that uses loaded (values) language that quite possibly is producing misinformation-caused division,

Also, the video clip posted did not contain the quote, nor did the entire 31 minute interview from which the clip was pulled.

I am dismayed at the state of DU, have been for some time.

It is awash with many posts that have been proven to be false. Even worse, in some past cases the OP of those other posts STILL refused to take them down, even after it was definitively shown their OP was pushing false information.

[applegrove]

144. Well we donn't agree a narrative is the most important thing

in an election. Alert on me. I'm leaving it up as important. I don't have a problem with the idea of US values by voting group being flushed out.

[PatSeg]

143. That is very disturbing

The word "values" is really important as that is the word that upset me. Saying she does not agree with everything the President does or says is reasonable. I have been a huge supporter of Biden for many years and I don't agree with him on everything, but I've never questioned his values.

Ocasio-Cortez recently praised Biden publicly without any reservations, so I was disappointed to hear her allegedly say he "doesn't stand for all the values I do". If in fact she did not say that, a lot of us were getting upset for nothing.

I don't blame the original poster. It looked like a legitimate quote.

[applegrove]

145. Does it go against DU terms of service? For sure we need to discuss and flush out how

a big tent could harbor people with different values.

[Celerity]

146. that is not germane at all to my (fully documented at this point) issues with the OP

[applegrove]

149. I think we are at the end of the discussion. The quote

represents what AOC said in a much more succinct way for it to fit in a meme box.

[Celerity]

150. you have yet to show the slightest proof the quote is real, plus you are glossing over the loaded language

the undocumented quote is attributing to her.

You presented it as a quote, not a paraphrase and even IF you did try and pass it off as a paraphrase, then I still would take issue with saying that stating someone 'doesn't stand for some of your VALUES' is the same as saying 'you have POLICY differences with a person'.

It is not the same.

It is a big difference.

Disagree?

Look at the thread itself.

Posters having go after go at AOC for insulting Biden by saying he doesn't stand for certain values.

If she said that 'I disagree on some policies with President Biden, but I 100 per cent am all in for him to be elected', then there would be nowhere near the ruckus, as there are Democrats to the left AND to the right of Biden who have the same stance of 'disagree on some issues, agree on other issues' as that.

If being in complete, total lockstep agreement (not just votes but actual issues as well) with a Democratic President on each and every issue was mandatory to be a Democrat, then we would be a VERY tiny party.

[applegrove]

152. It is a representation of what she said. We are not going

to see eye to eye on this. If you think this important meme should be taken down then alert on the thread. I'd rather not lose the idea. Ideas are how we win.

[Celerity]

154. No it is not, and the onus to prove the quote (which has divisive wording) is real is on you. You made the OP, not me.

[applegrove]

158. I put a note that the quote was representative.

[onenote]

161. If its a "representation" how is it a "quote"

Whoever created the meme put words in AOC's mouth. Maybe you don't mind that this time, but I can imagine a lot of circumstances where people would lose their shit over a "quote" that isn't actually a "quote" at all.

[applegrove]

165. Okay. Will correct the quote.

[applegrove]

169. Okay. You got me. I so didn't want to get rid of the idea in the "quote"

or the same idea in the video and some people pass over videos so I wanted the "quote" as a lead. Is it okay now?

[PatSeg]

159. I really have no idea

As I said, I don't blame you. The meme appeared legitimate.

I do not agree with the poster who thinks you should delete the original post as I believe the discussion has been valuable. That said, I am glad they pointed out the possibility that the quote was inaccurate.

[applegrove]

164. Thanks for your input.

[summer_in_TX]

172. I saw an excerpt a couple of days ago.

AOC was interviewed Tuesday by Mehdi Hassan for his new outlet Zeteo on Substack. The section from 16:42-19:48 is what I originally saw and it's towards the end of that.

?si=_0OZqTopgTB1A8BA

The "quote" in the OP is a summary of what she said rather than a direct quote.

[applegrove]

178. Thanks.

[Celerity]

201. No it is not. She never said anything about Biden not standing up for some of her values. It didn't happen.

[mvd]

136. Exactly the right attitude

I don’t agree with the President on everything (spying laws and Israel two things) but as progressives we have to understand everyone won’t agree - and we should advocate for progressive ideals while not demanding the perfect. Overall I still think Biden has done a very good job.

[In It to Win It]

147. Exactly. Don't let 'perfect' be the enemy of progress.

[Blue Owl]

153. Cornell West and RFK should be taking notes

[betsuni]

186. Why? They hate Democrats.

[cilla4progress]

156. Thank you,

AOC! I would expect no less.

For I know and appreciate you as a serious legislator.

[SYFROYH]

198. That's my thinking, too.

[Martin68]

199. Well said.