So, Hillary Clinton Was Cheated

[edhopper]

The crux of this case, which the MSM wants to overlook, is that if the whole sordid affair was made public, Trump would have probably lost.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/4/14/2235127/-So-Hillary-Clinton-Was-Cheated?detail=emaildkre&pm_source=DKBOW&pm_medium=email

All of these attempts miss the point. It’s not like the MSM is trying to bury the lede (ha, ha), but the entire portent of this trial is what a conviction tells us:

Very, very likely if the public knew about the payments, Hillary Clinton would have won the 2016 presidential election.

That is, this trial almost certainly will prove that Hillary Clinton was (almost certainly) cheated.

[brooklynite]

1. If the ACCESS HOLLYWOOD tape didn't shift voters, Stormy Daniel's wouldn't

Enough voters knew what Trump’s character was and didn’t care.

[JohnSJ]

5. Problem was there was considerably negative coverage of Hillary throughout the campaign

over trump, even with that, along with the more liberal media giving free airtime to the Susan Sarandon, Nina Turner, Cornell West etc. to spew their drivel how Hillary was worse than Trump, and how they were tired of voting for the lesser of the two evils.

It didn’t take much to discourage the few not to bother to vote for Hillary.

The NBC host Matt Lauer did separate interviews of Hillary verses Trump was one of the most blatant disgraceful examples of unequal coverage. They wouldn’t even let Hillary finish a question before interrupting her answer and ask anther question, while Trump he only asked softball questions, and let him ramble without interrupting.

[edhopper]

6. It did, polls showed it had an affect

And Hillary would have won if not for the Comey announcement days before the election.

[BonnieJW]

70. Comey keeps trying to bury what he did

but people won't let him. He can't erase what he did because every time TSF says or does something outrageous (every minute of every day), we all realize we would have never had to experience the horror if it wasn't for his fake investigation of Hillary's emails.

[Upthevibe]

14. brooklynite.............

I agree with you 100%........Unfortunately.....

[Patton French]

58. His voters don't give a rat's ass.

It wouldn’t have made one bid of difference.

[Escurumbele]

79. I agree, the MAGAts have an excuse for every crime trump commits, they dont care, IT IS a cult, they are only allowed

to see the good things he does, and that is why they are in a daze, they cannot find anything good he does, so they make it up.

[raging moderate]

2. Not to mention the LIE dropped a few days before the election.

Last edited Sun Apr 21, 2024, 04:05 PM - Edit history (1)

That lie was dropped that an FBI (?) investigation was finding ample reason to charge Hillary Clinton with some crimes.

[karynnj]

36. Actually, Comey hit twice!

The first when he spoke of 0ossibly finding something new which would reopen the case about a week and a half before the election. Then noting there was nothing new thus no reopening about 3 days before the elect. The probl3mnis it put the story in the news again.

[CrispyQ]

56. I'll always believe Comey's was the heaviest thumb on the scale.

People knew what Trump was by then. Access Hollywood had been out for months.

Comey fucked us big time & I practically puked when he wrote that "he eats your soul" commentary. Fuck you, James Comey.

[Ms. Toad]

3. Not Hillary Clinton. The American people.

It isn't about Hillary Clinton. No one is entitled to be president. But the American people ARE entitled to a president chosen without llegal election interference.

[RandomNumbers]

11. + 1,000,000 (really, infinity) nt.

[lastlib]

29. +another 1,000,000

Everything we have gone through because of The Bloated Pustule would not have happened.
--the shitshow of his "governance";
--the stolen SCOTUS appointments;
--the horrendous judicial and executive-branch appointments;
--the Ukraine blackmail scandal/impeachment;
--January 6th insurrection;
--the stolen classified documents, and the gifts of our intelligence to our adversaries;
--the COVID pandemic mismanagement that killed a million people--
none of that would've happened.

[soldierant]

44. I don't know why

your comment doesn't already have a thousand recs. It should. Everyone should rec it, because not only are you absolutely right, but we tend to forget it so often. I should not have been the first.

[H2O Man]

89. Recommended.

Thank you.

[Model35mech]

4. Considering existing sentiments, I think Trump might still have won.

I know that's unpopular. But He also got away with saying things like he could shoot people on NYC's Broadway and he'd get away with it. No politician in my life time ever said such an outrageous thing.

Yet, millions of voters didn't see that as disqualifying. Indeed, they may have seen it as the strength of the sort of strong-man thay wanted.

[lindysalsagal]

7. America and the world were cheated.

[Kaleva]

8. No way to prove that.

[crud]

16. Also no way to disprove it...

[Pretty Fly]

30. No but you can reason things out, sadly.

1. Trump's history of marital indiscretions was not a secret. He was a known cheater. Lots of people were willing to overlook that and still support him.

2. The Access Hollywood tape only did temporary damage to his campaign - damage he was quick to correct. Even people who came out and said they wouldn't vote for him ... ended up voting for him. It doesn't take much to assume it would have played out similarly.

[Farmer-Rick]

69. His sleeping around was not a big secret

But there wasn't any fuss made about it. Unlike every little thing Hillary did.

The catch and kill deal the stinking Nazi made with Pecker, owner of National Enquirer, hid numerous other affairs and possible abortions by Trump mistresses.

The possible abortions would have gotten a few Evangelicals' attention.

The Access Hollywood tape only came out a month before the elections. The rest of his sexual exploits (available long before October 2016) were hidden by his catch and kill deal.

So, it looked like it was just talk and just that once. If everything had come out and hush money payments weren't used, there's no telling how big of an avalanche against the Nazi that would have made for voters.

Reasoning things out goes both ways.

[Pretty Fly]

73. And yet here we are where it's all coming out and... he's still very capable of winning in November.

I don't think he will but it's going to be very close. In fact, I think it'll be closer than it was in 2020.

That tells me everything I need to know about what damage it likely would have done to him in 2016. If he's certainly capable of winning right now after everything we've experienced the last essentially eight years, it just seems silly to assume this would have somehow brought him down in 2016.

Hell, it might not even bring him down in 2024 with an actual trial.

[Farmer-Rick]

83. Biden beat him 4 years ago

Trump is defeatable.

He was just very lucky to have Pecker's and Putin's secret help.

[Pretty Fly]

85. I never said he wasn't unbeatable.

But Biden basically won the 2020 election by like 24,000 votes across three states. And all signs point to 2024 being just as close, with a real possibility that Trump can win. And to be honest, Trump has far more baggage than he did in 2016.

If this trial isn't enough to give Biden a blowout win in November, and unfortunately, I don't see that at the moment, it isn't hard to imagine all this coming out in 2016 likely wouldn't have moved the needle all that much.

[Kaleva]

50. Can't prove a negative

Like asking people to disprove God exists

[brush]

9. Not to mention Comey's disgraceful laptop investigation 11 days before the election.

It was as Hillary said, a vast, right wing conspiracy.

[Tickle]

62. What laptop are you

referring to?

[radical noodle]

65. Anthony Weiner's n/t

[brush]

68. How soon they forget. Hillary's assistant, Huma Abedin's then Husband Anthony Weiner's...

Last edited Mon Apr 22, 2024, 10:00 AM - Edit history (1)

laptop was seized and Comey, still gunning for Hillary, publicly re-opened the investigation 11 days before the election only to find info that had already been investigated with nothing new found.

Hillary was leading in the polls and Comey's actions most likely caused her to lose the 2016 election.

Strange that you don't remember.

[Orrex]

10. There is no smoking gun that would have turned Trump's KKKultists away from him. None.

It's a silly fantasy to pretend otherwise.

[edhopper]

18. Trump cultist never elected him and never will

it's the independents that switch back and forth who elected him.
People who voted for Obama and then Trump. You know, idiots.

[Pretty Fly]

31. And why would this have changed their mind?

Trump being an adulterer was nothing new. Everyone knew he was a skeeze. We got confirmation of that with the Access Hollywood tape. None of that changed voters' minds, tho.

So, I think it's a stretch to believe that this would have been what did Trump in - and not the countless other awful stories that we heard throughout the entire 2016 campaign.

[Whiskeytide]

35. I don't entirely agree. The independents were ...

…certainly a factor, but Тяцмp swelled the ranks of the r party with new voter registrations. Records were set. People who were long disengaged, hated all government and never bothered to vote before saw something in him that brought them out from under their rocks to cast a vote for him. Tens of thousands of them.

We can’t discount that making a big part of the difference as well. And they’re still around. Still registered. And still wanting his brand of racism/fascism.

[soldierant]

46. I really don't think it was so much the Trump** voters who elected him at all,

but rather the Independents and Democrats who voted for third parties , or not at all. IIRC Trump** received more votes in 2020 than in 2016.

[Orrex]

39. Well, there's definitely some truth to that

On the other hand, in real life I have never met an "Independent" who didn't consistently vote Republican in every election.

Not talking about people who simply register as Independent, but rather those people who claim to be "Independents" like it's some badge of smug honor.

[edhopper]

40. There were

definitely people who voted Clinton-Bush=Obama=Trump.
And in an election that close...

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/10/16/17980820/trump-obama-2016-race-racism-class-economy-2018-midterm

One of the most puzzling elements of the 2016 election, at least for a lot of Americans, was the millions of voters who switched from voting for Barack Obama in 2012 to Donald Trump in 2016. Somewhere between 6.7 million and 9.2 million Americans switched this way; given that the 2016 election was decided by 40,000 votes, it’s fair to say that Obama-Trump switchers were one of the key reasons that Hillary Clinton lost.

[Orrex]

42. Assuming no skullduggery behind the scenes, we can read a lot of raw mysogyny in that

Not to mention the decades-long hate campaign that the GOP and its obedient media had been waging.

Still, I take your point.

[Wounded Bear]

12. I will never believe that trump has ever "won" anything without cheating...

[MyOwnPeace]

13. Probably the 'truest' resonse.......

in this whole thread!

I agree with a few other posts:
*If the 'grab them by the p***y' thing didn't sway anybody, the Stormy Daniels wouldn't.
*I FIRMLY believe the DUMBASS Comey release was the most deadly part of the entire campaign.

Only thing left to do now is FIGHT LIKE HELL to keep him out - forever!

[kentuck]

15. The tape was only talk...

Stormy Daniels and the pay-offs were actual acts.

There is a difference.

[Pretty Fly]

32. Trump has had a history of cheating.

Not only on his partners but people out of money. He's a crook and everyone knew he was a crook in 2016.

[Turbineguy]

17. The Clintons triggered the entire right-wing hate machine to turbo charge.

She was always the most qualified candidate ever.

[oasis]

59. Exactamundo! nt

[waterwatcher123]

19. Layer on Cambridge Analytical, Paul Manafort, the Russians and Jim Comey (all the ingredients for a stolen election)

It is ironic that the man running around claiming he was robbed in 2020 was the beneficiary and/or was directly involved in stealing the 2016 election.

[Warpy]

20. Hillary Clinton DID win the election by nearly 3 million votes

What she didn't win was the archaic, badly apportioned, and anti democratic Electoral College.

The founders were terrified of mob rule and the Electoral College was put into place to prevent it. They didn't realize how badly that could be skewed to deliver us to mob rule in 2016.

[crud]

21. The harm to the American people is immeasurable

When pro athletes use steroids, you can't say whether they would be champs without steroids. It's an educated guess. It might make for heated discussions at the corner bar, but what is the harm or consequences?

In a case like this, the harm or potential harm from the crime is huge. The whole country was cheated. The "question" whether it made a difference is the thing that matters, not the answer.

[Botany]

22. It was stolen

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/2017/01/23/russians-suspected-hacking-local-dems/96965824/

Manafort didn’t just give the Russians polling data he and others gave them data analytics which allowed the Russians
to micro target their operations. According to exit polls HRC won Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina,
and Florida.

[triron]

95. Indeed. People here will try to discount the validity of

Exit polls
But why are they so universally used throughout the world.

[Botany]

96. Exit polls were always spot on until they went to electronic voting in America.

See Brunner, “Everest Study.”

[chouchou]

23. The unfairness is still prevalent

I see Biden made fun of the smallest misstep. (Biden almost fell going up the stairs of...)
"Joe Biden's gait is rather slow today" (He was pausing for his wife to catch up)
Mr. Fartbag can lie, exaggerate, look like a Jabba out of Star Wars and the press would still
handle him with elegant gloves.
I'm sick and tired of it..Grrrrrr...

[twodogsbarking]

24. Never passed my smell test.

[bucolic_frolic]

25. HRC got double whammied: Comey and this election interference

It could only have been stymied by better attention to rural counties in WI MI PA. No one paid attention to what Trump was doing by spending WEEKS in those counties. You have to monitor the opposition.

[krkaufman]

26. Apples and oranges

A conviction in the "hush money" trial wouldn't indicate any such thing, since the trial isn't about the hush money or even the affair, but about illegally covering up the hush money payments. A conviction won't have any more meaning as regards how the election might have gone had this affair (or the other[s]) been known than will Trump being acquitted.

[soldierant]

49. Falsifying business records

under New York law, is by itself a misdemeanor. However, if it is done in furteerance of another crime which is a felony, it becomes falsifying business records in the first degree, which is a felony. The charge sheet just says "falsifying business records in the first degree," but other court documents mention election interference. And, since proving "in furtherance of another crime" will be critical to a conviction, you can expect to be hearing about it in testimony. A lot. It's not impossible for that to affect public opinion (though heaven knows it won't get any help ftom the media.)

[Shermanator]

27. There's nothing illegal

About hush money payments. If he had paid the women out of his own pocket he wouldn't be facing any of these charges and the public would have never known anything unless the women came forward. Trump's problem stems from the way the money was fraudulently classified. Cohen did work for the Trump campaign and was never paid for it. That's a campaign contribution that was never reported and exceeded the contribution limit. Then he paid back the money Cohen shelled out to the women plus any interest to report it as income for services rendered to the Trump campaign. Then Trump wrote that money off as a business expense.

[et tu]

28. the r party is partial to thievery and way before hillary nt

[pandr32]

33. Mr. redirection also exploited Bill Clinton's alleged affairs.

He planted accusers front and center at a debate.

[C Moon]

34. She would have been a great President.

[MOMFUDSKI]

37. How many true believer Christians would

have declined to vote for an adulterer?

[flamingdem]

38. The Enquirer could have been stopped if we knew..

They were a major source of disinformation about Hillary with health claims etc.

Disgusting.

What if she'd won, how different life would be!

[onenote]

41. Three points:

The affair -- not a crime. But if the public learned about the affair, would it have cost him the election? Maybe, maybe not.

Paying off Daniels to keep her silent -- not a crime. But if the public had learned that he had paid off Daniels to keep the affair secret, would that have cost him the election? Maybe, maybe not, but maybe more likely.

Falsifying records to keep the affair and the payments silent - a crime. Had his falsification of the records come out before the election would that have cost him election? Maybe, maybe not, but probably even more likely.

[SYFROYH]

43. If we think knowledge of payments to silence Stormy would have changed the election...

...then we have learned nothing.

There is no stink that would have kept him from being the threat he was in 2016 and is in 2024.

There we were willing to vote for anyone who could what was necessary to defeat HRC.

[TBF]

45. She was cheated in the sense that votes should count - she won if you look at individual votes

this electoral system is outdated and should be changed to one person, one vote.

I don't think an affair or payments would've changed minds in 2016, and it certainly won't change them this year. What I have learned living in Texas is that a good portion of the evangelical Christians believe that they answer to a higher power. By any means necessary to get the court decisions they want. They don't care where he sleeps or passes gas - if he keeps giving him the Supreme Court (and tax breaks of course) that they want, that's enough for them.

[LiberalFighter]

47. I consider Mark Burnett part of the cheating with his Apprentice show.

He and his wife, Roma are both scumbags pretending to be Christians.

The language used against blacks and women by Trump and yet Burnett continued with the jerk.

[JoseBalow]

54. And he refused/refuses to release the recordings of drumpf unfiltered

[LiberalFighter]

55. Doesn't say much about Mark and Roma's christian values.

[LiberalFighter]

48. The public needed to be better educated regarding the emails.

Mainly that the govt emails were cc or bcc and also printed out and filed.

[MichMan]

51. Only once in my lifetime has the same political party won three presidential elections in a row.

Consistently, the people are ready for a change every 8 years.

[Farmer-Rick]

71. Yeah, sure if........

A Russian dictator isn't funding one political party

Corporations can't give political parties excessive campaign contributions

One party isn't, for all practical purposes, the Nazi party

One party doesn't want to take away half the citizens' right to vote or free will over their bodies

One political party doesn't want a dictator, who is losing his mind, his vocabulary and his ability to speak and can't control his bowels

But aside from that, sure change in politics is good..... mostly......

[MichMan]

78. History can be inconvenient

Only once in the last 75 years has the same party won three elections in a row. Once.

Not in 1952, 1960, 1968, 1988, 2000, 2008, or 2016.

[Farmer-Rick]

82. Just because it hasn't happened

Doesn't mean it can not ever happen.

People use to think all swans were white and there never could be a black swan.......until they saw one.

[Torchlight]

88. A great thing about historical precedent is that it's never absolute.

A a race, humans seem to celebrate being 'the first ever' in many things, and we're quite often successful at it. Precedence, though convenient, requires many more qualifiers prior to becoming a point of defense in and of itself.

[jimfields33]

93. Never is

[edhopper]

72. By popular vote

the Democrats have one every election but one since 1992. And every election without an incumbent.
The "people" are ready for no such thing.

[czarjak]

52. Screw The Electoral College

Vlad figured that out thanks to W & Karl.

[pansypoo53219]

53. they did nothing but pimp the orange SQUIRREL to make it a race + she didn't help. the GNEWZ

need tidbits. she didn't give them anything.

[Bluethroughu]

57. Cheated by the press, trump and the DOJ.

The GOP stole an election, and the Supreme Court is stealing our Democracy.

[betsuni]

61. "Hillary had some shenanigans going against the candidate I wanted to win": what, exactly?

What "shenanigans"? Votes weren't counted or what? Which conspiracy theory?

[betsuni]

67. I'll never get an answer, conspiracy theory easily debunked a million times.

The big conspiracy to rig the election was the Democratic base voting. Teh Establishment.

[calimary]

80. Indeed? Show me. WHAT shenanigans?

Against whom? Against Bernie? A boutique candidate who would NOT have carried a majority of the popular vote, under any circumstances, at least in my opinion. From what I saw and heard, as many voters found him annoying as found him appealing. I certainly didn’t find him appealing OR realistic as a viable candidate unless you were into being scolded by a cranky old man a lot of the time. But by Jove he sure did what he could to poke holes in her tires.

If he really wanted it, why didn’t we hear from him again in the next round? Why didn’t he try again? Or was he just bent on making sure Hillary had a harder climb toward the goal? That kind of “friend” NOBODY needs.

[MustLoveBeagles]

84. Huh?

[Autumn]

63. She got more votes than he did. 2.9 million more votes than he did.

she got the popular vote. He got the electoral vote, the one that counts thanks to the founding fathers.

[ShepKat]

64. he dropped out as Biden came to the forefront

*heartbreak.

[betsuni]

66. Voters.

[louis-t]

74. I disagree. I continue to say maga thinks it makes him 'manly'

that he cheated on his wife. I think he wasted his money, and this trial would not have happened if he had let it go. It would just be another sordid story among dozens of sordid stories about the orange bastard.

[edhopper]

76. Magas will vote for him

No matter what he does. It's the independents that changed their vote in the last days that decided it.

[Oopsie Daisy]

75. ... and betrayed and sabotaged.

[Polybius]

77. Had Hillary been elected and re-elected, who do you think our nominee would be in 2024?

Would Biden have run?

[edhopper]

81. Gavin Newsome

[MichMan]

90. Kamala Harris

[Polybius]

91. Highly unlikely

If Hillary won in 2016 and 2020, this would be Harris' first run for President. She didn't win a primary in 2020 when she ran for President.

[MichMan]

92. Hillary would have chosen a VP.

Kamala is as good a choice as anyone else

[Martin68]

86. It was the theft of an election, not just a hush money case to protect Trump's reputation.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

87. TFG was elected in 2016 by Putin and election fraud

[LetMyPeopleVote]

94. Both 2106 Republican nomination and the general election were stolen for Trump!

Link to tweet