Tomorrow is going to be a fun day

[Ohio Joe]

I have a good bottle of tequila on ice, a rather large quantity of really good sativa on hand and the ingredients for an absurd amount of tacos.

My niece’s husband is going to be here at 5am (mt) to start the party.

That’s right… Before most people are up, we’ll be drinking and smoking and eating and getting ready to follow the fucking guy facing justice.

Mmmmmm… It’s going to be a good day

[WarGamer]

1. If it was only televised...

Wonder how long prosecution will take for their open... just the day?

[Ohio Joe]

5. No idea...

But while eating, drinking, smoking and listening to tunes we’ll be scouring the news.

[onenote]

7. I haven't seen any reports about the judge setting a time limit on opening statements

but in the cases I've been involved with, the strategy has been to keep the opening statement from running too long, which risks losing the jury's attention or overwhelming them with information. Usually, the prosecution wants to explain what the charges are and what the prosecution intends to show through live witnesses and documentary exhibits, but without going into a lot of detail.

[WarGamer]

12. Onenote... couple ? for you...

Not being a lawyer and not sleeping in a Holiday Inn last night...

Can the defense essentially focus on the weakest part of the case, the campaign finance part of it?

Or is the defense not allowed to talk about "the law"

Can they refer to comments by Vance about why he didn't charge years ago?

I think the fake document aspect is easy to charge but if I'm not mistaken they have to tie it to campaign finance law. Did Trump use campaign funds to pay the 130K?

I read a good summary from a Syracuse Law professor and he suggested the final step linking the fraudulent docs to campaign finance is going to be tough.

https://news.syr.edu/blog/2024/04/16/pitch-legal-analysis-of-hush-money-trial-facing-former-president-donald-trump/

I believe the District Attorney must show (1) that the payments were disguised as attorney fees to commit a fraud on someone, (2) that the underlying payments constituted an independent crime, (3) that Trump knew that the underlying payments constituted a crime, and (4) that the reason he covered up the payments was to disguise that crime. Those are going to be hard things to prove.

[Quakerfriend]

28. Don't forget- Cohen has Donny boy on tape

discussing the way they’ll go about it!

I hope the tapes are admissible.

[dpibel]

35. Bankruptcy law professor, as you know

Not necessarily the primo source for your criminal law analysis.

In addition, he is clearly a biased observer, as he concludes, without argument or proof, that this is a purely political prosecution.

[WarGamer]

39. If you've seen a better summary, lmk...

And no, I won't bother with any "content creator" on the payroll of Fox News, MSNBC, CNN or the like...

In other words, I don't care what Turley, Dersh, Weissmann or Tribe say...

[dpibel]

40. So you agree it's a political trial that shouldn't have happened?

Cuz that's what your expert says.

Explain to me, if you'd be so kind, why you believe this guy who, one more time, has never practiced criminal law, is the Word of the Lord, whilst all those other goobers know not whereof they speak.

As for you demand that I produce a better explanation, that's just arrantly silly.

I'm simply asking why you think I should take this dude's word for it, since he's way outside his area of expertise.

As far as I know, you claim no expertise that gives you a basis to evaluate this person's opinion. You just seem to like it a lot.

[WarGamer]

41. Let me explain.

Last edited Mon Apr 22, 2024, 05:29 PM - Edit history (2)

I'm not an attorney.

I'm an Engineer, earning my degree right out of High School. Sat on the degree for more than a decade while searching for something to do in life that drove my passions. Ended up finding a crazy niche in the late 90's with a large SoCal BioPharma and aquiring 2 more Degrees. But not a Law Degree.

So my natural inclination is to learn more about things I don't understand.

I also have a natural aversion to propaganda, to misinformation that is disrespectful to the reader, assuming I'm stupid.

Turley, Dersh, Tribe and Weissmann are all selling a product. I don't trust them.

So I read... and try to learn.

And it seems like tying the case together will be a challenge at the end. That's all I'm saying.

[dpibel]

42. One more time

You say that you are just interested in the facts, ma'am, and that you eschew and abhor "propaganda, to misinformation that is disrespectful to the reader."

I'm not going to go through this piece line by line, but it is filled with conclusory statements, biased statements, and exhibits--as one would expect from this source--an apparent lack of awareness of trial procedure.

I'm sure you noticed that this piece is denominated "Pitch," and is styled as a press release. In other words, it's an op-ed, which kind of right away takes it out of the realm of stately and measured scholarly discourse.

But, just to emphasize my point about the author's obvious bias, here's his walkoff:

This case is an important test for our legal system. District Attorney Alvin Bragg was under intense political pressure to bring these charges, even after his predecessor, Cyrus Vance Jr., decided not to do so. Trump is very unpopular in Manhattan, and has acted boorishly and foolishly in verbally attacking parties, judges, court clerks and their families. But the law must be applied fairly and evenly to all parties, even those who are locally unpopular, and it is the District Attorney’s responsibility to assure equal treatment under the law.

I believe that the use of our legal system for political purposes will backfire with the electorate. Every time a politically motivated case is decided, the polls show Trump becoming more popular. Alvin Bragg sits in the chair once occupied by one of my legal heroes, Robert Morgenthau, who refused to use his office for political purposes, and had the courage to admit when his office made mistakes. Bragg has a lot to live up to. This old case, with all of its legal difficulties, should not have been brought.

Emphasis added. If you cannot see how this constitutes a conclusion that is based solely on this Commercial Law professor's opinion, I cannot help you. He did not in any way argue or support his final conclusion.

I don't care if you are engaged in a Diogenesian search for an honest man.

I do care that you keep posting links to this op-ed and presenting it as the be-all and end-all analysis of the case, despite the fact that the author is clearly biased.

And I will keep pointing that out as long as you keep posting this piece.

[WarGamer]

43. the most interesting points were before his conclusion.

I can ignore the conclusion, just taking what I learned about the charges and the law.

But thanks for taking the time, I appreciate it.

[dpibel]

44. Ignore the bullshit! The rest is good!!

How does that even work?

"Well, sure. What he says at the end is silly. But the analysis (although I'm not a lawyer and don't know the statutes or the case law) is totally sound!"

I think you're missing something here.

[Delmette2.0]

38. I was friends with a guy who could give great speeches.

His basic out line was
1. Tell them what you are going to tell them.
2. Tell them what you need to say.
3. Say briefly what you told them.

It seems like openings for attorney's is step one.

[OAITW r.2.0]

2. Pace yourself, my friend!

[Ohio Joe]

8. Fortunately my niece and her husband live two doors up

So at least there is no driving involved

[jcgoldie]

3. Pecker day

Enjoy!

[Ohio Joe]

9. Pecker flipping on tfg is hilarious

It amuses me to no end

[Prairie_Seagull]

4. I'm in, scootch over. Enjoy the sativa first, or the tequila. haha

[Ohio Joe]

10. Oh yeah... wake-n-bake

Then scrambled eggs, cheese and onion tacos… Plus, he makes homemade hot sauce and is bringing several kinds… Yeah, tequila shots come after breakfast tacos

[2naSalit]

6. I'm glad I...

Don't have any long engagements over the next six weeks. I plan to keep watch on this.

[Ohio Joe]

11. Agreed

I’m looking forward to watching him burn.

[2naSalit]

14. We might need...

A new Bingo card for this.

[ZonkerHarris]

13. plus there;s a big hearing on the $175 million bond and whether it's real/valid/legal or not.

hope his world falls apart tomorrow and he strokes out.

[Ohio Joe]

15. I forgot about that...

Jumping Jesus he has so many crimes… Stroking out would indeed be best for everyone.

[elleng]

16. Have fun! Earth Day!

and According to the Book of Exodus, God commanded Moses to tell the Israelites to mark a lamb's blood above their doors so that the Angel of Death would pass over them: they would not be touched by the tenth Plague of Egypt, the death of the firstborn. After this Plague, Pharaoh ordered the Israelites to leave, taking whatever they wanted, and asked Moses to bless him in the name of God. The passage goes on to state that the Passover sacrifice recalls the time when God "passed over the houses of the Israelites in Egypt".

Anything ELSE???

[elleng]

17. Have fun!

According to the Book of Exodus, God commanded Moses to tell the Israelites to mark a lamb's blood above their doors so that the Angel of Death would pass over them: they would not be touched by the tenth Plague of Egypt, the death of the firstborn. After this Plague, Pharaoh ordered the Israelites to leave, taking whatever they wanted, and asked Moses to bless him in the name of God. The passage goes on to state that the Passover sacrifice recalls the time when God "passed over the houses of the Israelites in Egypt".

Anything ELSE???

[Demobrat]

18. Being on the west coast

I don’t have to wait for it to start, I get to wake up and start looking at updates. Yay!

[nolabear]

19. One of the West Coast disadvantages, things start early.

I feel weird that for bloody years now I’ve checked my phone each morning hoping for his demise. If this goes right it might be even better.

[3catwoman3]

30. He is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overdue for a dirt nap.

Don't feel weird. I suspect there are a lot more people than the 2 of us who are hoping for his demise.

[Ohio Joe]

31. I know I am

[brettdale]

20. dumb question

Who goes first on the opening statement
And at the end, who goes first on the closing statement

[Ohio Joe]

21. I do not know...

My gut says prosecution goes first both times but… I don’t actually know

[ShazzieB]

26. That is correct. Here's how opening statements work.

Opening Statements

The purpose of opening statements by each side is to tell jurors something about the case they will be hearing. The opening statements must be confined to facts that will be proved by the evidence, and cannot be argumentative.

The trial begins with the opening statement of the party with the burden of proof. This is the party that brought the case to court--the government in a criminal prosecution or the plaintiff in a civil case--and has to prove its case in order to prevail. The defense lawyer follows with his or her opening statement. In some states, the defense may reserve its opening statement until the end of the plaintiff's or government's case. Either lawyer may choose not to present an opening statement.

In a criminal trial, the burden of proof rests with the government, which must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty. The defendant does not need to prove his or her innocence--the burden is on the government. In a civil trial, the plaintiff has the burden of proof, and generally must prove liability by a preponderance of the evidence (i.e., the greater weight of the evidence.) The degree of proof required in a civil case is far less stringent than in a criminal case. Once again, the defendant does not have to prove that he or she is not liable.

Source: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/resources/law_related_education_network/how_courts_work/openingstatements/

[ShazzieB]

29. Here's the lowdown on closng arguments.

Closing Arguments

The lawyers’ closing arguments or summations discuss the evidence and properly drawn inferences. The lawyers cannot talk about issues outside the case or about evidence that was not presented.

The judge usually indicates to the lawyers before closing arguments begin which instructions he or she intends to give the jury. In their closing arguments the lawyers can comment on the jury instructions and relate them to the evidence.

The lawyer for the plaintiff or government usually goes first. The lawyer sums up and comments on the evidence in the most favorable light for his or her side, showing how it proved what he or she had to prove to prevail in the case.

After that side has made its case, the defense then presents its closing arguments. The defense lawyer usually answers statements made in the plaintiff's or government’s argument, points out defects in their case and sums up the facts favorable to his/her client.

Because the plaintiff or government has the burden of proof, the lawyer for that side is then entitled to make a concluding argument, sometimes called a rebuttal . This is a chance to respond to the defendant’s points and make one final appeal to the jury.

Occasionally the defense may choose not to make a closing statement. If so, the plaintiff or government loses the right to make a second argument.

Source: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/resources/law_related_education_network/how_courts_work/closingarguments/

[Ohio Joe]

32. Thank you

Good info and much appreciated!

[ShazzieB]

34. My pleasure!

The website I got that from has a complete rundown on how courts operate, including the steps in a trial. I plan on consulting it frequently in the coming days snd weeks.

Here's the main page with the list of links:
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/resources/law_related_education_network/how_courts_work/

[LeftInTX]

27. Prosecution. It's their case, so they need to prove it. So it starts with them.

[BaronChocula]

22. THAT is commitment

I guess I'm celebrating early. Like I do every night.

Enjoy!

[LetMyPeopleVote]

23. We have Passover dinner at my oldest tomorrow night.

[NJCher]

24. My schadenfreude already started

Having listened to him whine about having to be in that cold, cold courtroom , I kicked off my festivities by staring at my gloriously empty calendar, all the while immersed in glee at the thought that he has to get up early to face the music.

I don’t have a single obligation and he has to be somewhere. See what happens when you behave like a decent human being? You can stay in your cozy bed and cuddle with your cat and listen to updates on everyone listening to a litany of his crimes against every single voter in the USA.

Then I’ll be on the phone chortling with the RG and also my brother. We will be comparing menus, besides enjoying our freedom to do what we want. No “sir, sit down” from the judge for us!!

[Ohio Joe]

25. I so love this post

Thank you!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

33. I hope that tomorrow will be a great day for you and your niece's husband!

Your plans sound absolutely wonderful!

Happy eating, drinking and smoking!

[brettdale]

36. Best website for live updates?

Will CNN be doing live updates?

[brettdale]

37. Six hours to go

Haha, trump.