It's impossible to exaggerate just how badly the gag order hearing went for both Trump and lead attorney Todd Blanche.

[kpete]

Last edited Tue Apr 23, 2024, 11:06 AM - Edit history (1)

UPDATE: Tuesday, Apr 23, 2024 · 8:01:50 AM PDT · Mark Sumner

In just a few minutes, Blanche was forced to admit he had no case law to support his position, that he was speculating on the motivation of witnesses, needled the judge with a statement about “two systems of justice in this courtroom,” and got a warning that he was losing all credibility with the court. And this is the guy Trump is counting on to lead this case over weeks of testimony.

In a lot of ways, any fine resulting from this morning is going to be the very least of the damage. This. Was. Brutal.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/4/23/2236789/-Live-coverage-Trump-s-first-criminal-trial-continues-with-testimony-and-gag-order-hearing?pm_campaign=front_page&pm_source=top_news_slot_2&pm_medium=web#update-1713884510000
https://www.meidastouch.com/news/recap-of-trump-contempt-hearing

?w=1238&quality=80&ssl=1
https://digbysblog.net/2024/04/23/is-common-sense-prevailing/

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[ProudMNDemocrat]

1. Where did Toddd Blanche get his Law Degree?

From a Cravker Jack box. It was the prize inside.

[localroger]

4. Trump University /nt

[Escurumbele]

32. LOL

[Raven]

5. Brooklyn Law School.

[KS Toronado]

28. Isn't that where Vinny Gambini got his?

[AZ8theist]

48. You mean the 2 utes??

[KS Toronado]

59. That's him!

[Traurigkeit]

44. If any profs are there that taught him, they will not know him passing on the street now.

[unblock]

7. Once you've decided to take a losing case with an uncooperative, uncontrollable client,

The best legal education in the world won't keep you from looking like a fool.

[cojoel]

10. He attended Brooklyn Law School

I don't know anything about the place.

[SergeStorms]

49. And these are the "totally professional" attorneys.....

these are the good ones, the same attorneys he'll be using in the documents case in Florida.

This is what happens when you cheat attorneys earlier in life.

Karma is a bitch, Donnie boy!

[LonePirate]

2. Brutal perhaps but he seems unlikely to receive jail time so any sort of fine is a slap on the wrist.

He’s likely benefiting from a two-tiered justice system yet again.

[Hugin]

8. After much agonizing over the "just lock him up" question...

I personally have come to believe that in this case the judge is doing the correct thing.

Here’s my reasoning. Once a judge invokes the extremes of contempt proceedings, everything becomes a personal pissing match between the judge and the contemptuous one. It would push the actual facts of the case into the background as the goat rodeo takes up all of the attention.

Trump has plainly said that he doesn’t want the facts of this trial to become public. In fact he allegedly paid money to keep them from being widely known. I have come to believe that he is willing to do anything that will keep these facts from being known. Including intimidating witnesses/jurors and inciting contempt with a judge. Risking the unlikeliest outcome of being jailed. Yes, Trump is that desperate to keep the facts in this trial from being known.

That said, it would be nice if the fines were more severe. I assume that the scale of them has been set based on the resources of a typical defendant and not someone like Trump.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

11. The judge can't, by NY law, impose a fine greater than $1000.00 per violation,

it sucks, but it's NY law.

[ShazzieB]

14. And to TSF, that's not even the slap on the wrist it would be to most of us.

It's more like the buzzing of an annoying insect; something to be impatiently waved away.

Fines are going to have absolutely no effect on him.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

16. No, but it's the first step, correctly IMHO, in escalating punishment

if Been-A-Dick keeps his shit up.

[ShazzieB]

47. Thanks for the reminder!

Last edited Tue Apr 23, 2024, 02:31 PM - Edit history (1)

This (the escalation of penalties for contempt of court) is an area I'm not familiar with.

[Traildogbob]

27. 4 Mother's Day fake cold pendants for Melania.

Of course not a once of work involved in that cash flow, as is the life of trump world.

[Traurigkeit]

45. Especially when TSF isn't paying them from its pocket

[JT45242]

17. Can the judge by law imply an intermediate revocation?

Wondering if the judge could say after these fines. The next time TFG violates the gag order that he would be put on an ankle monitor and only allowed to travel between Trump tower home and court/lawyer meetings.

A violation once in ankle monitor would put him in jail.

There should be justice for all, and literally anyone else facing 34 felony counts who was trying to intimidate witnesses, court personnel, or jury members would likely have been put in a similar arrangement by now.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

18. That's a great question, one which I don't have the answer for.

Maybe some of DU's resident lawyers can answer, member, onenote, could probably give a good synopsis of NY law.

[MichMan]

36. Can't they change the law?

$10,000 per occurrence?

[onenote]

41. Changing a law doesn't happen by waving a wand. And I doubt the NY legislature is going to do that

because of this case.

[TheRickles]

12. This hypothesis about Trump's strategy makes sense. Thanks.

[3Hotdogs]

13. -- it was set by the legislature.

[onenote]

23. The decision not to seek incarceration was made by the prosecutor.

The reasons for that likely include the reasons you give in your post. But there is another reason: prosecutors rarely seek, and judges rarely impose, jail time for criminal contempt the first time the issue is raised and particularly in a case where the contempt didn't disrupt the trial in front of the jury. Rather, they take an "escalation" approach where the severity of the penalty will turn on whether the offender persists in violating a gag order after having been penalized one or more times.

And wouldn't basing the penalty on the ability to pay be a form of two-tiered justice? Should the fine one pays for drunk driving depend on one's bank balance?

[ret5hd]

29. as you imply...the law forbids both...

the rich and the poor from sleeping under the bridge.

so everything is equal.

[msfiddlestix]

53. perfect analogy, recommended. tyvm,

[Hugin]

35. How is setting fines on a scale based on resources a two tiered...

System? Right now with the fixed system, a $1000 fine is one fiftieth of the average American’s annual income. It isn’t even petty cash for some of the worst offenders such as Trump.

[Elessar Zappa]

38. The "law in all its majesty"

forbids rich and poor alike from sleeping under bridges, to beg in the streets, to steal their bread”. Anatole France.

Yes, I believe fines should be tailored to assets. That’s much fairer in my mind.

[unblock]

9. Baby steps.

True, mere mortals would already be in jail, but fine first, let him accumulate more violations, jail later when it's an even more solid call.

Yes he is absolutely benefitting from a system that mollycoddles him. But he won't change his ways and the trial isn't over any time soon. His jail cell awaits.

[LAS14]

46. Maybe not jail time, but...

... why not house arrest? One day on a Wednesday or weekend for every time he violates the gag order? A fine would be laughable.

[LonePirate]

50. House arrest is useless as he spews his garbage to the press at the courthouse or he puts it on social media.

A device free confinement along with a non-stop police escort to and from the courtroom are the only ways to prevent further violations from him. Other defendants would already be jailed for those actions yet he remains free.

[soldierant]

55. And this is why, the instant we have a Democratic majority on both Houses,

Dems need to take up Bennie Thompson's bill to strip Secret Service protection from a convicted felon.

I gather the Secret Service is right now considering ways to deal with the situation should his conduct lead to some kind of lockup for contempt, and that's good, and they may even coe up with ideas which could be applied toan actual felony sentence, but it doesn't solve the problem.

[Timewas]

3. Reserve decision??

Not going to make any decision on it, so much for hard core judge.Not even a wrist slap and t rump went right back to disparaging the entire court within minutes..

[Srkdqltr]

6. So now trump fires this lawyer which leads to a several months delay while a new one gets up to speed.

Planned shi...stuff ? You think?

[lastlib]

30. If I was the judge in that scenario....

...I would APPOINT an attorney for him--the one he fired. Then proceed.

[Srkdqltr]

33. I doubt they can do that. But it will delay again which is the point.

There is no straight forward with him. Everything goes round about and back again . Delay delay.

[onenote]

39. Do you really think that's what he's going to do?

[Srkdqltr]

43. My guess is as good as anyone else's

[Marcuse]

15. Despite the presumption of innocence, he knows he is guilty as hell and sees no reason to respect anything or anyone.

[Bev54]

20. One might get the feeling his lawyers are doing everything they can to lock him up.

[sop]

21. Apparently, "Truthing" is what Trump now does on his social media site since he stopped "Tweeting."

Henceforth Trump will refer to his constant spreading of lies on Truth Social as "Truthing," and the media will go right along with it. WTF is going on in this country?

[modrepub]

22. The Same Thing That's Been Going On For Awhile

The rich and powerful tilt everything in their favor. I think we've all seen some of it in our lives. The coaches kid getting to play a little bit more than the others. Stupid rich kids getting into college and spending most of their time at the frats partying. Football team members getting to cut class to go to pep rallies. And so forth.

Most of the rich a privileged are smart enough to keep it on the down low. tfg doesn't have their "class", he just blasts his choice of music and doesn't care what the rest of us think.

The real question in my mind is how does the privileged class respond when people like tfg sh-t in their back yard? Up to this point, their response has been totally underwhelming.

[SalviaBlue]

40. It is such an assault to our language.

So Orwellian. They think they can create a reality as they wish it to be… it’s Psychological warfare. Scary thing is that works with some people.

Rule of thumb:

Every accusation is a confession.

Every “Truth” is a lie.

[LymphocyteLover]

24. Awesome!!!

[Silent3]

25. I don't hear "jail", or even "next time it's jail". Sounds just peachy for Trump.

This gag order hearing only went badly for the country.

[Silent3]

26. (deleted)

[BumRushDaShow]

31. "Your client had to type it out. Use the shift-key and all."

See....

No wool being pulled over Merchan's eyes.

[617Blue]

34. Oh please. Sick of this legal analysis. The hearing itself is a win for Trump.

He won't be sanctioned. In the other trial he didn't post bond. He's not going to prison and his assets aren't going to be seized. Legal bills are the only repercussions for many of these MAGA sleazebags.

[onenote]

37. He didn't post bond?

He posted it. It was challenged. He responded to the challenge and the judge -- not exactly a softie -- accepted the revised terms of the bond. AG James also accepted it -- indeed, she was the one that said that Trump should have another seven days to come up with an acceptable bond.

So are both James and Engoron now weak links who want to go easy on Trump? Because the trial and the verdict in the fraud case suggest otherwise.

[triron]

42. I call it legal mumbo jumbo.

Justice system is being exposed as inadequate to deal with Trump.

[Oopsie Daisy]

51. Did Merchan make his "you're losing credibility" comment in front of Jurors?

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

60. I don't think so. I think I heard on Joy Reid

jurors were out.

[4lbs]

52. I remember in the movie "My Cousin Vinny" (1992)

lawyer Vinny (played by actor Joe Pesci) from Brooklyn, NY was found in contempt by the Alabama judge (played by Herman Munster - Fred Gwynn)

He evidently didn't know what he was doing and began arguing with the judge regarding procedure.

Judge: "There are only two things I want to hear from you: 'Guilty' or 'Not-Guilty' If you say anything else, I will hold you in contempt."

Vinny: "I think I get the point."

Judge: "No. I don't think you do. Once again, you fail to grasp court procedure. You are now in contempt."

Vinny finally says "Not Guilty" and court resumes.

Afterwards, the Judge instructs the bailiff to take Vinny into custody, because the contempt still holds. Either pay the fine, or do the jail time.

He was fined $200 or two days in jail (might have been one day in jail). His fiancee (played by Marisa Tomei) bailed him out (paid the fine of $200). He was out later that day.

He got fined/jailed once or twice more for violating other court etiquette/procedure. Like not wearing a suit in court, talking BS out of turn, etc.

All this was in the arraignment hearing. The actual trial didn't even start yet.

Also, remember, this was the DEFENDING LAWYER that was held in contempt. The clients/defendants (one played by Karate Kid himself Ralph Macchio) shut up and said nothing during all this.

[JoseBalow]

58. That was a great scene

I love that movie!

Here's an oldie but a goody you might like, 30 days for criminal contempt...

It's that easy, Judge Merchan!

[4lbs]

61. Ah, yes. Excellent. Thank you for finding that clip on YT.

I couldn't find it or else I would have posted it.

Hmm... "Bond Court". I'll have to check it out.

[Deep State Witch]

54. Is Blanche Even A Criminal Defense Lawyer?

Okay.... I thought I heard someone on MSNBC last night say that Blanche was a corporate lawyer. If so, I'm surprised that he's even able to represent someone as a defense attorney in a criminal case. Because it sure doesn't seem like he knows what he's doing in front of a judge and jury.

[Kablooie]

56. That's good but...

will it result in more justice?

The judge still is pussy footing around any effective punishments.
Without a consequence that makes a difference it doesn't matter how bad it went for Trump and his lawyer.

Merchan may have to go easy so he doesn't give Trump a opportunity to complain or appeal, but it still stinks.

[Cha]

57. So the Gaslight didn't work with Judge Merchan...

Blanche