Voddie Baucham: Why I Choose To Believe The Bible

[ancianita]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Emile (a host of the General Discussion forum).

[Stardust Mirror]

1. Voddie Baucham is spouting so many lies

[link:https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218909625]

[ancianita]

3. Miss me with your comparison to Cox. Tell it to the 48% of your fellow Democrats who are Christian and

still live on Earth 1. Tell it to Rachel Maddow, Presidents Jimmy Carter, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden, all Christians.

[walkingman]

6. The U.S. Constitution gives people the right to practice their religion

or choose not to practice one at all. It has nothing to do with political party, although the GOP like to play like it does. As far as religious belief, we can believe anything we wish. Again, it is not political.

It is an individual choice.... thankfully.

[Phoenix61]

10. This is what he stands for...

“This quote from page 110 is great:

"My eighteen-year-old daughter has never been on a date with a boy (unless you count going places with her father). She has never had a boyfriend. She has never held hands with or been kissed by a young man. That means she has also never stayed up all night crying her eyes out because some boy broke up with her. She has never had to ask, "How far is too far?" She has never been on suicide watch because the man she loved was out with another girl. She has saved her heart – her whole heart – for the man whom she intends to marry. She is not looking for a young man who has been in the equivalent of two, three, or twelve mini-marriages. Any young man who is interested in her must understand the importance of guarding his heart and hers.

The last part of this book addresses something that I’ve been uncomfortable with for years: don’t send a woman to do a man’s job:

"Our children are becoming serial monogamists who give themselves away over and over again to unworthy candidates who break their hearts, scar their psyches, and often cause them to sin against God. Something simply has to give." (pg. 161)

https://www.joyinourjourney.com/what-he-must-beto-marry-my-daughter.html

[gay texan]

16. Gotta keep women sequestered

Its what a loving god wants

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

27. Or they just say that they are so that they can climb the social ladder.... nt

[gay texan]

2. That was good for a laugh

Bible thumpers are good at mental gymnastics

[ancianita]

4. Tell it to the 48% of your fellow Democrats who are Christian and

still live on Earth 1. Tell it to Rachel Maddow, Presidents Jimmy Carter, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden, all Christians.

[Stardust Mirror]

5. cool, now tell me bout the slavery genocide rape and omniscient germ theory

in your boring book written and revised by power hungry men over centuries

[ancianita]

9. Cool, cuz if you read it you'd know that nothing you say about the science or power hungry men is even in or from that

"boring book written and revised by power hungry men over centuries."

41% of scientists are Christian. Voyager I's lead scientist and project head was a Christian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology

Francis S. Collins, PhD Yale; MD, UNC, Chapel Hill:
"The God of the Bible is also the God of the genome. He can be worshipped in the cathedral or in the laboratory. His creation is majestic, awesome, intricate...and it [creation] cannot be at war with itself. Only we imperfect humans can start such battles. And only we can end them."

Ian Hutchinson, PhD, Engineering Physics, Nuclear Engineer and Physicist at MIT:
I take the Bible very seriously... and would affirm the notion that it is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, reproof and correction....But that doesn't mean that when we come to it, our particular interpretations are always affirmed by God."

[gay texan]

11. LOL

Glad thats settled

[dpibel]

37. You do realize, I trust, the best predictor of faith

The best way to guess what religion someone practices is this: Find out what religion their parents practiced.

So saying that 41% of scientists are Christians says a lot more about how they were raised than whether they came to their beliefs via rigorous application of the scientific method.

Here's an interesting question for you: There are about 4 billion Chinese and Indian people. Many of them are scientists. Are you including them in your 41% of true believer scientists?

That would be a truly remarkable factoid, if 41% of Asian scientists were Christians.

[gay texan]

8. Whatever

That stupid bronze age bullshit nearly got me killed in the 80's. Forced me into a closet for 40 years.

I missed out on a lot of life because the invisable sky daddy was watching over me.

Blessed be the day when christianity is relegated to the dust bin of history

[brewens]

31. If someone tried to get me to join an organization and told me a little of its history which included, massacres,

burnings at the stake, torture, slavery and persecution, I'd call the fucking cops!

[FrankBooth]

15. Yeah, and if they tried to "convince" me the way you are

I'd tell them to go fuck themselves and take their stupid fucking book with them.

[Silent3]

21. There are many Christians who don't put much credence in the Bible

The worst "Christian" behavior comes from the people who claim the Bible is the literal truth. Liberal and progressive Christians generally take the Bible with a huge grain of salt, as allegory not literal truth (or not very much of it as literal truth), and as a book with some ugly historical baggage that isn't even good as allegory.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

28. Or they just say that they are so that they can climb the social ladder.... nt

[50 Shades Of Blue]

7. He's a disgusting piece of misogynistic shit.

[gay texan]

14. Ever wonder why preachers like him use hands free microphones?

You need both hands free to sell BS

[50 Shades Of Blue]

17. ROFL! Yeah, and I'd guess because it also leaves them free for

pocket pool when he starts obsessing over why he really gets off on that book, i.e. oppressing women and LGBTQ+ folk.

[gay texan]

12. By the way, he's a homophobe and a bigot

https://dallasvoice.com/bigot-week-voddie-baucham/

[muriel_volestrangler]

13. Why would you post someone like that here? To discredit Christianity?

Biblical patriarchy
Baucham is an adherent of biblical patriarchy. He outlined his views on the subject in his 2009 book What He Must Be: ...If He Wants to Marry My Daughter, though preferring the phrase "gospel patriarchy".[12] Baucham criticized Sarah Palin's vice presidential candidacy in 2008, on the basis that women serve best at home.[13][14]

Baucham is also a supporter of the Stay-at-home daughter movement.[15] He appeared in Vision Forum's 2007 documentary Return of the Daughters, in which he said that America is suffering an "epidemic of unprotected women."[16]

Family and church
Baucham and his wife have homeschooled their children, and he has spoken against Christians sending their children to public schools.[17][18] In his 2007 book, Family Driven Faith: Doing What It Takes to Raise Sons and Daughters Who Walk with God, Baucham argued that parents (especially fathers) can and should disciple their children through family worship and through attending family integrated churches.[19][20]

Critical race theory
Baucham rejects critical race theory in favor of what he calls "biblical justice", and sees it as a religious movement, with its own cosmology, saints, liturgy, and law.[21] Baucham's 2021 book Fault Lines: The Social Justice Movement and Evangelicalism's Looming Catastrophe outlines his criticisms of the movement.[22] In Fault Lines he argues that Critical Theory and its subsets, Critical Race Theory-Intersectionality and Critical Social Justice are grounded in Western Marxism, the public social justice conversation is perpetuating misinformation, and is incompatible with Christianity as a competing worldview.[23] In August 2021, Baucham was accused of plagiarizing parts of the book and falsifying a quote he attributed to Richard Delgado, an early researcher of critical race theory.[24] The publisher, Salem Books, rejected the plagiarism claim, saying it was merely a matter of style, while Delgado denied making such a quotation.[25]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voddie_Baucham

[ancianita]

20. You are right about his other attributes as a Christian. And I agree and am solidly against any

Christians who believe in "biblical patriarchy." I have problems with him but wanted to at least present his reasonable and fair way of framing a book much maligned by all those who don't read it or have some 2nd hand acquaintance with it.

This post was MAINLY in response to the Brian Cox OP that got on the MAIN Page of DU.
This response is about the Bible itself, and in its historical accuracy and fact based reliability.

Christians are not a monolith. Even as an atheist I knew that.

But I just don't think it's okay to foreground hatred for the Bible on the Main Page here, and then question my response as a complete endorsement of what this speaker stands for. The Brian Cox hatefest re the Bible just got locked, but it took more than an hour.

My "presenter," Baucham, is correct about the historicity and reliability of the Bible. That's the point I wanted to present, NOT HIM. As a newly returned Christian, I've studied enough about what he's studied to see that he's incorrect in his other claims about knowing what the Word of the Bible means.

Human understanding of all things seen and unseen is always improvable. His included.

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. Well, hopefully this thread will be locked too, for the same reason

But your claim in the other that the Bible has 200 years of history was laughably wrong, so I'm not going to sit through a bigot trying to make the same claim. You could post in the Religion group, but use a better source, and we can explain the actual history in the Bible to you.

[ancianita]

24. I'm okay with that. Since the first Brian Cox OP was locked.

I hear you, but I hope I didn't mistype my claim. I believe I typed 2,000 years of history. It's correct in its timeline.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_literalist_chronology

I have posted in the Religion group, thanks. I've studied the Bible as History in college. But sure, I'll continue to drop in now and then.

I'm a witness to Jesus. Which means that I measure anything Cox or Baucham says by what Jesus taught. If they don't square with what Jesus said -- which includes what they say he meant -- then I don't accept their opinions, though they're free to exercise all the freedom of speech they enjoy in this democracy.

Thanks for your post.

[dpibel]

25. You're a young earther??

That's the only sense I can make of your Wiki link.

And I do not think it means what you think it means.

That article says nothing at all about the accuracy of anything.

It simply says, "If you take the Bible at face value, here are the numbers that add up to creation happening about 4,000 years ago."

If you are presenting that as proving, or even supporting, the historicity of the Bible, I believe you are in error.

[ancianita]

32. No, I'm not doing that at all. It's the Bible's timeline of its story of humans coming to god consciousness. I'm NOT

saying the Genesis explanation of how God created Earth is any correct human timeline.
But the Moses story of creation is his explaining to human readers how a God "day" for Moses and his descendants can see a beginning of organization in the world. We can see how a Moses concept of a "God day" can still square with our science's modern understanding of Earth's and the universes' ages, and all its life evolution across septillions of years. Because time is a human construct used to help humans make sense of the seen and unseen.

The Bible isn't science. It doesn't attempt science. It explains a lot as a scaffold that later led scientists from Galileo to to explore and test all things of creation, though.

[dpibel]

35. Then what does this mean?

You say:

I hear you, but I hope I didn't mistype my claim. I believe I typed 2,000 years of history. It's correct in its timeline.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_literalist_chronology

The Wiki to which you link is about nothing except the calculation of the age of the Earth based on the Bible.

What do you mean by "It's correct in its timeline"?

You do know that many events described in the Bible are recorded nowhere else, even though they would have been remarkable. The sun standing still in the sky for a day comes to mind.

So what is this timeline?

[hatrack]

18. That's nice . . .

I choose to believe Principia Mathematica.

[Silent3]

19. He starts out so well describing bad reasons for believing in the Bible...

...but then in just a few minutes reveals his own reasons which wouldn't hold up very well to careful scrutiny.

[keithbvadu2]

23. ancianita, Is the Bible the truth?

You are using some of the same points as in our other discussion.

[ancianita]

26. Keith, there are a LOT of truths. There's a lot of misplaced faith in truths of all kinds. I'm aware.

I don't know if you read the other locked thread, but I was responding to gay in texas calling me WRONG.

Maybe my post to him could be useful, not sure, as I'm only answering for myself, not for others.

I wrote:

"Have you read the Koran? I've owned it, read it three times. Met with people from the U of Chicago Center for Islamic Studies for whole day seminars. I know how this authenticity and reliability of holy books' and their earlier documents works.

If you want to say that one guy who produced his holy book dictated by an angel, 700 years after 57 ancient papyrus and scroll writers from 1,000 years before him, 8 of whom were with the historic Jesus and eyewitnesses to th'at Jesus and his 'Father,' God, who presented his/her/itself to them...
or if you want to make this about my "knowing," I can tell you that, as a former atheist, I don't mind being laughed at for "hedging my bets" that 40+ writers (men and women) across 3 continents, most of whom didn't know each other, came up with the same story about a Yahweh/God in Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek, and were people who were working out the first "rational" monotheism, and its concepts like "faith."

The ancients' struggled to come to a social order (after enslavement) and a sense of "fear not" (said 365 times in the Bible, Old and New Testament), and "faith," just to use two examples.
And I don't know anyone, religious or not, who doesn't have faith in themselves or loved ones or the universe or "good faith" governance or rule of law or something.
The difference is that today's feelers of a kind of "faith" mostly don't know, and now they don't have to know, how the words for those concepts came about. But in the flesh they experience any one or more of those words.
I studied linguistics at undergraduate and graduate levels, so that's a good thing
.
I myself don't have to have "faith" about the facts of ancient writings and concepts; I still study where they came from, what other civilizations used fact based and not-fact-based writings "to live by." As an atheist I just thought that myths were ways to explain how to best live, and that religions become myths when they stop doing that.
I'm implying that the Bible, from thousand year old ancient human writings, is an historical collection of the development of such concepts like "faith" and "freedom" in the West. Not just of a God or god consciousness. But of how to order society around concepts like law, judges, testimony, statutes, freedom, faith, how human rights work, even how the vast universe works (even if that part has obviously been claimed and developed by scientists, 41% of who say their work does not contradict the Bible).

I and my posts don't condone any competition among religions. Only religions -- AND their misunderstanding 'believers' -- that refuse to "live and let live" are competitors. They have a history of believer wars. I'm not doing that in this life. I've always claimed that believer wars are the bane of the planet and all the world's religions have to coexist, not just in their leadership levels, but on all ground levels on every continent.
Any worship or prioritizing of power (which is always judgmental and harmful) corrupts any religion, which can be perverted to wrongly serve temporal powers.
But the Bible is about belief IN Jesus and God. That's it."

Keith, I just thought I'd repost this. Thanks for reading.

[keithbvadu2]

29. All that to avoid saying 'yes'.

[Ping Tung]

30. The Bible is a book with some beautiful poetry; a bloodstained history;

The Bible is a book with some beautiful poetry; a bloodstained history;a wealth of obscenity, and upwards of 10,000 lies. Mark Twain

As I recall, the quote is from Twain's "Letters from the Earth" which I read for the first time while in college in the 60's.

[demmiblue]

33. ...

[Xavier Breath]

34. Amen. n/t

[edhopper]

36. Not sure if it is sad

or funny that someone would think posting this would convince anyone of anything.
Just another preacher spouting bullshit.

[Emile]

38. After an alert and discussion with the hosts, locking.

SOP for General Discussion

Threads discussing the truth/untruth of religious dogma are not permitted under normal circumstances and should be posted under Religion.

Feel free to repost it in Religion.