Inherited behaviors and mannerisms?

[wnylib]

Since recent OPs have brought up topics like ghosts and reincarnation, another topic came to mind that I've observed and wondered about.

I believe in free choice regarding behavior. Even when people's early life experiences foster certain types of behavior, people can, with effort, make changes. I do not believe that having a parent or grandparent who committed a felony, for example, means that their children are destined to be felons. I do not believe that ethnic, cultural, or racial ancestry is a genetic determinant of people's actions.

But, I have observed that sometimes there are mannerisms that seem to run in families not accounted for by learning through imitation. I once worked with a young woman who had a 10 month old baby. The baby's father sometimes brought her to work when he picked up the mother. The mother's younger sister worked there, too. The younger sister had very little contact with the baby. She was single with an active social life and did not babysit or even visit the baby's parents much at all. (The mother complained to me about that.)

So one day I was surprised to see the baby shrug and turn her head in a specific way that was a dead ringer for a mannerism of the younger sister (the baby's aunt). Another time the same baby made a hand and arm movement that was also a spot on likeness to the baby's aunt. The mother did not have those mannerisms. It was as if there was a gene for it that the baby and her aunt had.

We breed animals for behavior traits as well as for physical traits. Within a breed of dog or cat, each one will have its own personality, but there will be breed specific behavioral traits that they have in common.

Twins raised apart will often have similar mannerisms, likes, and dislikes.

So how many of our mannerisms and preferences might be genetically inherited instead of acquired by experience or independent choice?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

1. Absolutely.

I've seen several examples of this. For me, the most impressive was this: My high school friend Janey Lou was married, had three kids, and was becoming disabled from muscular dystrophy. I was able to visit her once in this time frame. She was no longer walking. Her daughter who was perhaps eight at the time, walked with the same distinctive gait I'd seen in Janey Lou many years earlier.

My maternal grandmother could catch flies passing by. My sister's son (maternal grandmother's great-grandchild) can do the same thing. Lots of other grand and great-grandchildren.

[msongs]

2. a study using hundreds of other babies might answer the baby vs sister thing

[Retrograde]

4. If the babies were raised and kept

in strictly controlled environments. Unfortunately (or fortunately) experimenting on humans like this is frowned upon in most societies.

[wnylib]

6. The nearest thing to studies like that is studies of identical twins and triplets

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who were separated at birth and adopted out to different families, not knowing that they had an identical sibling somewhere. In later years they discovered each other by chance or, these days, through genetic testing.

Some of the similarities between those identical siblings are probably just coincidence. But some are more convincing of genetically shared likes and dislikes.

Other examples being discovered recently are similarities between parent and child or between siblings who are not identical. These separated families, usually by divorce or adoptions, find some remarkable similarities in preferences and habits when they meet.

[Bluethroughu]

3. My dad was gone by the age of 5, but after I reconnected

With him when I was 30, I talked the way he did, thought quite a bit the way he did, and had the same humor he did.

I thought I read that the most critical learned behaviors and mannerisms were birth until 5 years old?

If the baby spent any time at all with the aunt or possibly the grandmother, she may have learned from those interactions, and was impressioned from them.

[wnylib]

7. Yes, that possibility occurred to me, too.

The baby and its aunt could have learned the mannerisms from the grandmother.

I had an experience when I was 11 years old that involved a grandmother that I never knew. She was my mother's mother, and my mother also never knew her because she died a few hours after my mother was born.

My mother was raised by her aunt in a different city than her father and siblings. She thought that her aunt and uncle were her parents because there was animosity between her aunt and biological father. Her aunt never told her about her father and siblings until my mother's brother, who was 14 at the time, found out where she lived and travelled to her city and state to see her.

That aunt lived with us after her husband died, when I was 3 until I was 10. She was a stuffy, rigid, disciplinarian type. I never got along with her. I was a "free spirit" and she constantly scolded me. We were as different as night and day. I did not know about my biological grandfather until the aunt no longer lived with us. The aunt would not tolerate any mention of him and my mother, who had always been made to feel grateful that her aunt had taken her in, would not disobey her, even as an adult.
But, my mother invited her father and his sister to visit us after my great aunt moved to a nursing home.

I was so excited about their arrival that I rushed to answer the door. My grandfather clutched his throat and gasped when he saw me. My mother was alarmed and asked if he was ok. He said that I had a way of standing that was identical to my deceased grandmother at the same age and had the same kind of open free spirit facial expressions. (They had known each other as children.) I had a slight physical resemblance to her, too. He said it was like seeing a ghost from the past.

My behavior and mannerisms were so different from my great aunt that they were not copied from her. I had never known my grandmother and neither had my mother.

[Bluethroughu]

21. I believe it 100%.

Genetics are really interesting. Siblings adopted my different families as newborns, but come together and find they have parallel lives in mannerisms, likes, dislikes, hobbies etc.

[wnylib]

22. Apparently my great aunt, sister to my grandmother,

did not get the, "free spirit" gene combination. Or, if she did, something quashed it along the way. I've wondered if she was always scolding me because I reminded her of her deceased sister. Maybe some envy or disapproval existed between them long before I was born.

[Bluethroughu]

23. She may not have agreed with your mom on life's approach,

But she cared enough to care. Something may have happened to your aunt, to make her scared for your behavior, to try and quash it. Or she loved you so much, her fear of another loss, was so painful that her attitude was out of fear.

[wnylib]

24. I don't know and never will. They're all deceased now, except me, obviously.

I do know that she had a very strong dislike of my grandfather, who was her BIL.

My memory of him is that he was an enthusiastic, energetic sort of person with a sense of humor. I have pictures of him with my grandmother at family gatherings in which they both look like they're having a great time. In her pictures, my grandmother always had a wry, impish smile, as if she knew some secret joke.

My grandfather was a musician in Sousa's band and traveled for their performances. That's why my great aunt took my mother to raise. Mom was a 27 weeks preemie who was not expected to live when she was born. She was in an incubator for several weeks before she could leave the hospital and required a lot of close care afterward. Her 6 older siblings went to an orphanage until my grandfather remarried two years later and took them home.

My great aunt had legal custody of my mother during that time and refused to give her up later. Maybe she blamed my grandfather for my grandmother's death? He was out of town when it happened, but I know that my aunt disapproved of her sister having so many children. My aunt only had two.

That might explain her dislike of my grandfather, but not why she was so strict with me. Years later, my mother told me that her aunt had been very strict with her, too.

[Bluethroughu]

25. That is an incredible history.

Your experiences will always make up your perspectives, and sometimes it's hard to put their shoe on the other foot.

I've found that the people willing to put in the hard work are usually well intentioned, but not always right.

[wnylib]

30. Yeah, it's quite a family story. I learned the full story

after my great aunt no longer lived with us. So, until I was 11, I thought she was my grandmother and that her two sons were my uncles when they were actually my first cousins once removed. Eventually I met my mother's siblings and their children, too.

[sdfernando]

5. My mother commented to once

that while driving and holding the wheel with my right hand (I’m right handed), that I held my left hand on my lap exactly as my Abuelita (grandmother) held her handkerchief (my Abuelita never drove a car).

[stopdiggin]

8. my opinion - it is absolutely foolish to try to discount or explain away

many of the things described. (and never really quite sure why anyone would take up the gauntlet ?)

I mean we freely acknowledge certain inherited traits, qualities and abilities (musical talent, sports ability, eyesight .. body types, intelligence ..) And, as you pointed out, absolutely affirm the same time tested concept and reasoning in the breeding of animals ... So why would we all of a sudden glitch out - when we start circling around things that are more difficult or unpleasant? Criminal behavior? Ohhhhh. Maybe don't want to go there! But is there in fact any really solid reason not to? If Grandad was a daredevil, a bit of a loose cannon, short on impulse control - and and somewhat ethically ambivalent ... Why should we doubt that little Johnny might turn up with some of those same qualities and character?

[wnylib]

11. I think that some traits might be inherited but expressed in different ways

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depending on a number of variables in the environment.

A daredevil risk taker whose father, mother, or grandparent was a felon might end up using his/her traits as a race car driver, or mountain climber. Or a Wall Street speculator. The dare devil risk taker trait does not automatically mean crime. Crime often involves a feeling of separateness outside of social norms, leading to anti social behavior with roots in some early life experience.

Or, criminal behavior might be due to creativity, a talent for thinking outside the box. If not channeled by parents or teachers into legal outlets, it could develop into criminal behavior. I'm thinking of teens who have a strong aptitude for computer operations and creativity. They might start hacking into programs of a corporation or person just as a "fun" challenge to see what they can do without thinking about the legality if it. But, with a sense of responsibility or of community belonging learned from adults in their environment, they could instead invent programs, or become a techie working for police to prevent or catch computer crimes. Maybe join the CIA as a cyber spy.

Nature vs. nurture. How we use inborn (natural) traits depends on environmental (nurture) influences. Sometimes people develop a sense of right and wrong on their own, from both negative and positive experiences.

[stopdiggin]

15. you are, of course, correct in pointing to

inherited traits not predetermining criminal behavior. Certainly there are other outlets ... By the same token, I think it is very hard (perhaps implausible?) to try to maintain that there not be some connection - perhaps predisposition - toward antisocial or proscribed behavior and actions. To me - that just doesn't make sense.

And of course clearly all individuals are a mash up between nature and nurture. (and, again, why would we try to argue otherwise?) But if we are to trumpet our ability to 'rise above or beginnings' (which most of us believe to be inerrant truth) - is it not also necessary (and just as much truth) to acknowledge that our 'beginnings' - both nurture and nature - play mightily on the path or even possibilities that we will walk?

We are free to walk our own path - to a certain extent. On the other hand, to claim that 'all roads are open' - is conceivably more mental construct and article of faith - than actual reality.

[wnylib]

16. Very true that not all paths are open to everyone or

to any one specific person.

Isn't that part of why we are Dems? To make more opportunities available to more people.

And no matter who we are, there are limitations on choices and actions. Even Trump is discovering that.

There are many environmental factors that influence us in addition to inherited traits.

Between inheritance and environment, I guess we could question how much of our own free will we actually have. But there are times when we have to make choices and decisions and live with the consequences. Our inherited traits and environmental experiences will influence our decisions, but in the end, they are our decisions for which we are responsible.

Birds, beavers, ants, bees - They all build homes based on what we call instinct. Nobody teaches them. They just do it. But humans (and other apes) have more variables in how we live and interact with the world, presumably because of larger brains with more neurons and potential pathways for those neurons.

Any species that teaches its young seems to be operating on more than mere instinct. Sure, it might be instinctual to teach our young, for the sake of species preservation, but what we teach can vary according to environment and the ability to have creative adaptations to it.

Anyway, it's the mannerisms, aptitudes, and preferences that appear to run in families that intrigue me.

[stopdiggin]

19. totally agree. and, yes, we had gotten a little far afield there hadn't we?

but, as originally noted, inherited 'mannerisms' are observed almost routinely. and, yeah - almost spooky!

[wnylib]

20. .

[stopdiggin]

9. but, yeah ... how many of us have NOT been exposed to,

"You hold your head just ... and have exactly the same laugh as your Aunt Sadie ... "

[sanatanadharma]

12. Twins are a fascinating data point in understanding self-consciousness or individuality

There are those who argue that the human baby is fully developed as a being with soul, consciousness, dignity, rights, etc from conception. One cell, one self, one legal being. One conception with full human and legal rights, the never-right says of these future generations.
(Sounds like a great argument for progressives to demand that all current decisions not prejudice, impede, or danger future unborn generations.)

Twins clearly have a connection to a (supposedly) other that no single-born can ever have. The rest of us are born as forever separate and alone beings seeking connection throughout our lives to other consciousnesses; though we seem to think it is the body that attracts and that matters.
And with the body we are back to the subject of being automatons programmed solely for the purpose of reproducing the species (not individual beings with self-awareness seeking personal happiness).

If two beings are created from the moment of conception, we have to begin rethinking our identity as being limited to body and DNA.
Are we to understand all individuals to be just bodily automatons with an overlay of 'consciousness'?

Are we to believe consciousness is an unnecessary phenomenon that evolved from the previously inert (without consciousness)?
If consciousness arose later, perhaps it is totally unnecessary to the 'scientifically-understood' workings of the universe.
Before consciousness arose, was there any "knowledge" in the world? Was there a knower? If no knower, how can the known exist?

Can a universe exist without the existence consciousness? If the answer is yes, prove it?
I will stop now.

[Elessar Zappa]

17. I've pondered those questions also.

It’s an interesting thought exercise.

[Midnight Writer]

13. Is behavior inherited? Watch a bird build a nest, or a spider build a web.

They are not taught these intricate skills, nor do they figure them out on their own.

They are born with an innate knowledge and compulsion to behave in very particular ways.

[edhopper]

14. Free choice and free will

are philosophical concepts that don't translate onto biological entities like us.
Our behavior is a mix of though, instinct, reaction, stimulus both internal and external and various biological functions.

[LiberalFighter]

18. I wonder when watching AFV involving kids doing crazy or strange stuff

What they will be like as an adult.

[True Dough]

27. Maybe like this?

[Siwsan]

26. My paternal grandfather died before I was born but I share several behaviors

One is my temper. Neither of my parents had much of a temper but my grandpa did. Not like raging all the time but when he reached his breaking point it was pretty obvious. I am the same way.

He also cried VERY easily when he was given a gift, any unexpected kindness, or a pleasant surprise. I do that, too, in abundance. I've lost count of how many times I've heard someone in my family say 'OK, who had 30 seconds before the tears started?'

The third thing is doodling style. My cousin told me that grandpa would sit and doodle, drawing small circles. I do the exact same thing. Learning that shared behavior was pretty amazing because it seems so random.

[wnylib]

31. My earlier posts were about my maternal grandmother and me, but

there's another example about my paternal grandmother and my brother.

My paternal grandmother was a good pianist. Before her marriage and for a few years afterward, she was hired to play for the follies shows at the theater in our city that were popular then. Later she played piano for her church for many years. She also played honkey-tonk for people's home parties.

My grandmother died when I was almost 2 and my brother was 5. We used to visit my grandfather in huge family gatherings at Christmas and in the spring for grandpa's birthday. During those visits, my brother always tried to spend a few minutes toying with the piano before someone stopped him because of the big crowd and conversations.

We did not have a piano in our house until I was 12 and he was 15. I started lessons but he didn't. He would pick out a tune by ear, add some chords, and play like a pro. He could play anything, from popular rock hits on the radio to folk songs after a few minutes of working on it. He sometimes played the same song in different styles - traditional, rock, jazz, etc. (I gave up my lessons.)

He obviously had an innate musical aptitude. Besides my paternal grandmother's ability as a pianist, my maternal grandfather was a professional musician. Seems like my brother inherited his musical aptitude from both sides of the family.

[Arne]

28. For what it's worth, I'm turning into my father.

[JustAnotherGen]

29. My mom is visiting right now

There are things her mother did that I do. From the way I sit, the way I prep food, etc etc I look a lot like her and have many of her mannerisms.

My gram was also a mini me to her Grandmere . . .

When my Great Grandpa (Papa Georges) was visiting my parents and I was in my early 20's - I was serving him his oatmeal with sauteed apples for breakfast. My hair was very long then. He started crying because he felt like he was five years old and back in Southern France with the original Adrienne.

Yep - I certainly believe it. Its added to when you have the same facial features. My gram and me were both dead ringers for her paternal grandmother and have eerily similar mannerisms and "French ways".

When I was born, I was in a military hospital abroad with jaundice for a week. He had been visiting his mother in Nice when I was born - so flew up to West Germany to meet me. My parents were still arguing after six days whether I would be Samantha or Amanda. He intervened, told them they were stu-peede , took one look at me - and named me after his mother: A dark, rich, star.

He saw it when I was six days old!

ETA - I've avoided that past lives thread for two reasons.
1. I used to creep my parents out when I was a little girl.
2. I had a death experience when I was 31. My creeping them out was validated - and I knew my husband immediately when I met him five years later. This life - he got to me in time. Its no wonder I was born in Germany. Or that he got his green card on the very day I was born. Or that we are in pictures - one from when I was six at Coney Island. The little girl whose icee he tipped over who he said he would marry one day - so she popped him in the mouth. . . and his mother took a picture because it was funny.