It's possible to support Israel's right to exist, a free Palestine, the demilitarization of the police, freeing the...

[demmiblue]

It’s possible to support Israel’s right to exist, a free Palestine, the demilitarization of the police, freeing the hostages, ousting Bibi, the right to protest and peacefully occupy a building, humanitarian aid, and a ceasefire all at the same time.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Voltaire2]

1. yup

[WarGamer]

2. +1000 nt

[TBF]

3. That's how I see it too. nt

[Cha]

4. Smart Woman!

Link to tweet

[Richard D]

5. As long as a "Free Palestine"

Is Palestine free from Hamas and any other iteration of ISIS and the Islamic Brotherhood? Yes.

This is what is wanted by nearly all Israelis and world Jews.

If a "Free Palestine" is free to continue to attack Israel, then no. It would not be possible.

[Layzeebeaver]

8. its a bit more complicated than that, but...

I agree, there are a few chess pieces that need to be developed and played,

Peace can be achieved - but powers that be need to be expelled - on both sides.

[paleotn]

19. Agreed.

[NickB79]

48. People always gloss over that part

Peace isn't possible as long as Hamas exists in it's current form.

And Hamas will never relinquish power and lay down their arms voluntarily. They'll slaughter Gazans by the thousands to maintain their authority.

Any future where what the OP posts about can occur, requires the destruction of Hamas by force. Whether by Israeli forces or a Gazan civil war. Hamas doesn't want peaceful coexistence.

[Richard D]

56. Exactly. nt

[AllyCat]

6. Just here to say that: Condemn and root out Hamas!

MSW left out the major reason for why we are in this current war.

[MustLoveBeagles]

7. They're describing me

[LauraInLA]

9. I love all of it but occupying a building. I still think that's a bad idea and unnecessary.

[Mossfern]

13. That's the one thing on the list

that I had reservations about.

[paleotn]

16. That's infringing on other people's rights and has to stop.

The "occupy" bit. If it takes arrests and expulsions to stop it, so be it.

[BWdem4life]

22. I dunno...

When I was in college we staged a sit-in at the main campus library to protest reduced library hours. It was peaceful and effective. But that was not during library hours.

[LauraInLA]

28. That sounds fine to me and a worthy cause! But did you break into the library?

[BWdem4life]

30. No, we just started sitting in the halls before closing time and refused to leave. nt

[obamanut2012]

49. Which is the same thing, you inconvienced staff

I have no problem witj the students occupying buildings if they aren't trashed, but you did the same thing. And, library stafff are among the lowest paid white collar employees at universities.

[BWdem4life]

66. Whatever dude

Protests are meant to be an inconvenience. This protest got media attention and the university caved. So a few library workers were inconvenienced and this means we shouldn't have done it? Again... whatever.

[MustLoveBeagles]

40. I stand by my earlier comment

But I have reservations about that

[surfered]

10. Hmmm. Not sure...

…in a previous post, I asked if it was possible to show concern for Gaza civilians and not be accused of antisemitism. The responses were mixed as to that proposition.

[iemanja]

34. That's the game they play

any opposition, including that expressed by Jews, to the way the war on Gaza has been conducted is antisemetic, according to those who want to silence all dissent. They do it to distract from their own views about Palestinians, which is evidenced by their lack of concern for the tens of thousands of lives lost.

[IronLionZion]

11. Yes

the real dispute is essentially how much land on each side and where to draw the borders.

The other countries in the area had wars with Israel before, the main aggressor was Egypt. Egypt has had full diplomatic relations with Israel for over 4 decades. Peace is possible if people give it a chance.

[AloeVera]

29. Yes. But also - look at that light and kindness in Jimmy Carter's face!! Thanks for the pic.

[IronLionZion]

31. There is strength in peace

make America kind again

[AloeVera]

33. Fervently wished. Peace and kindness.

[yliza]

12. This has been my position all along

Thank you, Mueller, She Wrote!

[Sympthsical]

14. "peacefully occupy a building"

Well, 7 out of 8 isn't bad.

[iemanja]

35. Are you actually claiming no protestor in this nation

has peacefully occupied buildings?

[Sympthsical]

38. I'm saying it's a terrible strategy

And wins over no one.

There's a fine line between activism intended to change minds and ideological masturbation.

Wisdom is figuring out where that line is.

What's the intent here? To win over others to the cause, or to congratulate oneself for all that righteousness?

Because the answer being signaled in recent behavior isn't one that conveys the aforementioned wisdom.

[iemanja]

39. Perhaps so, but it's not new

It's accompanied all kinds of protests for at least hundreds of years.

[Sympthsical]

41. Yeah, it sounds like it's from the past hundred years

That's the problem.

Adults doing a romantic rose-colored youth redo is definitely one half of the cringe equation. The other is some of the most privileged people in America play-acting as oppressed freedom fighters.

I will never understand how people do not realize how embarrassing it is. It's 2024.

You know what people see when they see occupied buildings? They see the same assholes who blocked bridges and roads and fucked with their day.

Gazans aren't helped by this in the slightest. This is about the kids, rapidly aging activists chasing a feeling, and the rather elevated image of themselves that has not actually fallen out in the experience of history.

Believe me. I was born, grew up, and lived as an adult since Reagan. The late 60s college folks didn't win.

[paleotn]

43. "some of the most privileged people in America play-acting as oppressed freedom fighters" Well said!

[obamanut2012]

50. Many atudents at elite universities are not from privilege

Both public and private R1 Elites.

[Sympthsical]

53. Their attendance there is the privilege

Privilege isn't a fixed state like skin color or orientation.

It is a position in life, either given or achieved.

If you're at an Ivy League, you are far, far more privileged than the average person, and you will carry that privilege forward.

[obamanut2012]

68. No, it is not -- they earned it

Your views on this are really disheartening.

It is not privilege to work hard so you raise yourself from poverty. It is not privilege to break the generational poverty you were born into.

[Sympthsical]

69. Privilege can be earned

It is not like original sin, where it just follows people around, with the clean and unclean designated accordingly.

I grew up poor. Now I am quite far from that. I am now significantly more privileged than I used to be. I do not remain unprivileged forever due to the circumstances of my birth.

What kind of backwards religious nonsense would require this of its beliefs?

And good for the students who accomplished that. I genuinely am happy for them. I'm also the first person in my family to go to college, so I know what that can be like. Had the massive student debt to go along with it.

[paleotn]

15. Absolutely.

Though the occupy thing gives me heartburn. That's infringing on other people's rights. If MAGAs wanted to "occupy" a Biden rally or the DNC, we'd have kittens and rightfully so. Sorry, but your right to protest ends precisely where someone else's rights begin.

[iemanja]

36. How about the sit ins during the Civil Rights movement

Did they infringe on others' rights as well? When they blocked bridges and roads? I'm not advocating for violence or approving of it, but occupation of buildings, encampments, and sit ins have been part of union actions and protest throughout human history. Pretending that this kind of protest is unique is false. The same impulse to marginalize the very nature and cause of these protests is the same that resisted social change throughout history.

[paleotn]

42. These aren't like the past sit ins. These are not peaceful.

MLK did not advocate for the destruction of property or violence and denial of access except to true believers. True believers itching to fight with the police.

I don't remember ever hearing or reading about 1960's civil rights protesters taking over a restaurant, breaking up some of the furniture and scaring off all the white people with violent threats.

Expel them and prosecute them. Seems some of the more spoiled among us need a life lesson.

[iemanja]

46. Haymarket

The French Revolution, The Russian Revolution, Tupac Amaru, Nat Turner's rebellion, the Haitian Revolution, A Revolta dos Males, all other slave rebellions, etc. All were violent. Your initial point, however, was about occupying property itself. Sit ins were just that.

[paleotn]

54. Bullshit. There's no comparison of the lunch counter sit ins....

to spoiled, upper class American kids venting their spleens on an issue they don't fully understand, and being violent about it. That's horrendously insulting to those who did the work, non violently, back in the 60's.. MLK and Gandhi most certainly do not agree with you. Spoiled brats venting their spleens isn't helping. Stupidly blaming Biden isn't helping. It's hindering a cause they didn't give two shits about last year. That is until it became cool with their buds and "influencers".

[iemanja]

65. You're making many unfounded assumptions coming from your own opposition to the cause behind the protests

1) that the students are all upper class. You have no basis to know this. There are protests at public and private schools throughout the nation. All college students are not upper class. There simply aren't that many upper-class people in this country. The upper 1 percent. Remember?

2) That I'm blaming Biden, when I've said NOTHING of the sort.

3) Violence, which I specifically condemned. The focus was on occupying property.

Your entire post is full of ad hominems and does not respond to my point. You --in retrospect-support civil rights, so their occupying private property is okay with you. You oppose Palestinians' right to life and freedom, so you oppose protests in support of that cause. That is all your post amounts to.

[SunSeeker]

17. She lost me at "peacefully occupy a building." nt

Occupying a building invariably results in property damage and denying the rightful occupants use of that building. It's not cool. MLK never did that. It just pisses people off and hurts the message.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

21. Property damage?? omg omg

MLK never did that. It just pisses people off and hurts the message.

FWIW, the last Gallup poll that mentioned MLK specifically was taken in 1966 and found that his unfavorable rating was 63 percent.

[SunSeeker]

25. Destroying or commandeering property is just playing into Republican hands.

The BLM movement lost support when the property damage got out of hand.

That is why Biden recently released several statements, clearly stating that “forcibly” taking over any kind of building is “wrong.” https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/biden-speak-campus-protests-days-silence-rcna150432

What people think of MLK's tactics now matters more than what they thought in 1966. Now, his approval rating is 81%. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/08/10/how-public-attitudes-toward-martin-luther-king-jr-have-changed-since-the-1960s/

We should follow MLK's example. It worked. Occupy Wall Street didn't work.

And can we stop with the "omg omg" sarcasm? We're not 12 year olds on Tik Tok.

[progressoid]

27. And what did he get for it? They still gave him a bullet.

And then federal troops occupied America’s urban cities.

[SunSeeker]

32. The Civil Rights Act of 1964. He was killed because he was effective.

What did MLK "get for it" you ask? He headed the first nonviolent bus boycott that lasted 382 days, leading the Supreme Court to declare segregation on busing unconstitutional. With MLK at its helm, the civil rights movement ultimately achieved victories with the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1964 and the Voting Rights Act in 1965.
More at the link:
https://www.britannica.com/summary/Martin-Luther-King-Jr-s-Achievements

I can't believe I'm having this conversation with an adult progressive.

[Scrivener7]

52. As I've said before about the Columbia protest and the property damage there:

Want to see real damage? Get some photos of Columbia the day after Halloween falls on a weekend.

I can only speak about Columbia because I've seen it. I imagine the same is true of other campuses.

The hyperbole I have seen on DU about how protesters are "destroying the campus" and about how "it looks just like January 6" is moronic.

[SunSeeker]

55. Playing into Republican hands is moronic.

Causing property damage and/or commandeering buildings just turns people off to your cause.

[Scrivener7]

58. I guess it was the bake sales that brought about the Civil Rights Act, then.

[SunSeeker]

62. MLK's peaceful protests and organizing brought us the Civil Rights Act. nt

[Scrivener7]

63. And MLK was routinely accused by those who disagreed with him of inciting hatred

and violence, and of dividing America. It was constant.

I thank God he and his followers didn't let that stop them.

[SunSeeker]

64. He was accused of a lot of things, but they had no receipts, because he was peaceful and called for love.

That is why he won.

[byronius]

18. That's common sense.

So much historical baggage.

Harlan Ellison once wrote about a ‘forget-it-all’ drug that would make everyone forget history for awhile.

Just for a bit. The kids would benefit most.

[paleotn]

20. It doesn't take a drug. It takes character.

Begin, Sadat and Carter had character.

[JayDem]

23. Absolutely

Each of these statements is absolutely true. I just wish the rest of all of us would see this (including our politicians, Democrats, Republicans, et. al.).

[Ahpook]

24. Of course

If humanity would stop being such unconscionable assholes towards each other.

That is what bothers me the most. It should be easy?

[HandmaidsTaleUntold]

26. YES I'm With Robert Reich And Bernie

[Xolodno]

37. I've been avoiding responding to these topics for awhile, as there is no way to reason with some.

For a number, Palestinian = Hamas. Even when you explain why that isn't true, you get ignored or called an antisemite. When I was watching the local news covering the protest at UCLA where Jewish supporters were initiating the violence, they interviewed one person and labeled all Palestinians as Hamas supporters. The thought there was a middle ground was beyond comprehension.

In my mind that extreme thinking is no different than the thinking of Hamas. And they both feed off each others hate. The thought the majority just wants to make a living and survive never crosses their mind, they are too invested in hate. And that includes some people here on DU sadly. And Bibi bears a lot of responsibility for that, it was always us vs. them mentality. He was pissed off that Rabin would be remembered as a martyr which would make it harder for him to dismantle what he did. And yet, we have those who defend, albeit, indirectly, that psychopath. I wouldn't be surprised I get some heat for this post.

[mathematic]

44. The protesters are explicitly anti-zionist. They do not support Israel's right to exist.

A person as described by that tweet might exist but only as a naive caricature. "Why can't we all get along?" Oh gosh, somebody go tell the Palestinians and the Israelis this great plan!

[obamanut2012]

51. That is absolutely not true

You are making the protestors into a monolith. Many pro Palestinian protesters are Jewish, and most gentile protestors are not anti Semitic.

[SunSeeker]

61. Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP), who coordinates the campus prostests, is pro-Hamas.

Supporting over 350 Palestine solidarity organizations across occupied Turtle Island (“North America”), we aim to develop a student movement that is connected, disciplined, and equipped with the tools necessary achieve Palestinian liberation. 

https://nationalsjp.org/

SJP wasted no time after the Oct. 7 Hamas terrorist attack on Israel to spring into action, organizing a “Day of Resistance.” Chapters of the group said the world had witnessed “a historic win for the Palestinian resistance: across land, air, and sea, our people have broken down the artificial barriers of the Zionist entity.” https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4311746-students-justice-palestine-antisemitism-free-speech-hamas-israel/

In other words, they celebrated Hamas and called for the destruction of Israel.

Survivors of Hamas’s Oct. 7 attack on Israel filed a lawsuit against Students for Justice in Palestine, alleging they’re recruiting for Hamas. Leaders of SJP were arrested Tuesday at Columbia University after protestors took over Hamilton Hall.
https://cbsaustin.com/news/nation-world/victims-of-october-7-hamas-attack-file-lawsuit-students-for-justice-in-palestine-israel-jewish-people-protests-columbia-university-campus-ucla-funding-biden-white-house-refugees-national-security

[BannonsLiver]

57. Don't assume all DUers disagree with them

If this thread is any indication.

[Torchlight]

45. KnR!

[obamanut2012]

47. Thank you for speaking for us

Exactly. And, as I stated yesterday, this isn't an Oppression Olympics.

[Zeitghost]

59. Sorry

But you have no right to peacefully occupy a building you don't own or rent.

[Ping Tung]

60. Whole heartedly agree. At some point, negotiations, give and take, and common sense

must occur.

But first, both sides must stop the killing by installing a cease fire and resuming food deliveries to the starving people of Palestine.

[FakeNoose]

67. Yes I believe that too, when the parties are motivated to find a way, it can be done