The war against the Jewish story

[Beastly Boy]

How has it come to this? How is it possible that Israel, rather than radical Islamism, would become the villain on liberal campuses? That thousands of students would be chanting “from the river to the sea” even as the Hamas massacre revealed that slogan’s genocidal implications? That the most passionate outbreak of student activism since the 1960s would be devoted to delegitimizing the Jewish people’s story of triumph over annihilation?

This moment didn’t happen in a vacuum. The anti-Zionist forces in academia have been preparing the ground for decades, systematically dismantling the moral basis of each stage of Zionist and Israeli history.

The attack began on the very origins of Zionism, which was transformed from a story of a dispossessed people re-indigenizing in its ancient homeland into one more sordid expression of European colonialism. (Europe’s post-Holocaust gift to the Jews: leaving us with the bill for its sins.)

Next, the birth of Israel in 1948 was reduced to the Nakba, or catastrophe, a Palestinian narrative of total innocence that ignores the ethnic cleansing of Jews from every place where Arab armies were victorious and the subsequent uprooting of the entire Jewish population of the Muslim world. Post-1967 Israel was cast as an apartheid state – turning Zionism, a multi-faceted movement representing Jews across the political and religious spectrum into a racist ideology and reducing an agonizingly complex national conflict into a medieval passion play about Jewish perfidy.

And now, with the Gaza War, we have come to the genocide canard, the endpoint in the process of delegitimization.

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-war-against-the-jewish-story/

More at the link.

[FakeNoose]

1. Once again the victims have become the bad guys

Antisemitism is a pox on humanity.

I believe that a solution to Gaza can be found, if Hamas can be driven out. Hamas isn't looking for a peaceful solution but they are willing to sacrifice every Palestinian in Gaza in their quest for control.

[Elessar Zappa]

2. Yup.

As long as Hamas rules Gaza there can be no two-state solution because Hamas doesn’t want one.

[ShazzieB]

45. Agree, but also...

Bibi Netanyahu doesn't want a two-state solution, either, so he and Hamas both have to go.

[mopinko]

3. if their donors start clawing back some of the money hamas has stolen,

maybe they’ll take their ball and go home.
i can hope, cant it?

hopefully any peace plan involves ejecting the grifters from their nests in quatar, etc.

[wnylib]

49. Yes, the boycotts against Israel are aimed at the wrong people.

[Bluesaph]

4. Re-Indigenizing???

I’m not pro or against any of the peoples involved in this conflict. They both hate each other and both decided they have to get rid of the other.

But re-indigenizing? Seriously? Their own Bible talks about how they took the land by their god’s command and sacked it.

Unbelievable! This shit will never resolve until one side completes the destruction of the other and I wish the US would just stay out of the entire conflict. Makes me sick!!

[MistakenLamb]

7. Jews were living in the region since about 2000 BCE

long before the Battle of Jericho, which i assume you are referring took place around 1400 BCE. Jews are native to the region

[Bluesaph]

10. They aren't the only natives

And they did start the war back then when they sacked Jericho. Just saying. No one is innocent and they either live in peace with each other or they fight until one side is gone. But the US should butt the fuck out!

I find the re-indigenizing statement particularly disingenuous because it is disinformation and makes it seem like they were the “only” indigenous inhabitants of the land.

[paleotn]

16. Can't. US butt the fuck out. The region is too strategically important.

To not only us but the rest of the world in general. Again, a very simplistic solution to a very complex problem. That's not helping.

[Bluesaph]

32. That's always the "reason"

Iraq was too strategically important.

Afghanistan was too strategically important.

Same argument over and over.

[paleotn]

43. Different situations. And the simplistic response, butt the fuck out, is sometimes right like a broken clock.

But it's still a simplistic, inexact, broken clock. In this case it's not correct. This administration is trying mightily to find a peaceful solution to this mess while at the same time balancing other important issues like Israel's right to exist. I don't envy them but lets not make it harder by breaking windows on the quad. That doesn't win friends or influence people to their side. It just makes things worse...which to some may be the whole point of this spat of protests without a clue.

[Bluesaph]

50. Dismissing the reason for the protests is also nonproductuve

I don’t envy our president and what he has on his plate. And I do recognize that it is not simple.

But I stand by my belief that AT THE VERY MINIMUM our aid should come with some VERY FIRM conditions which should include possibly removing Bibi from making the decisions as to how the aid is used. But at the very least that Israel should immediately participate in bringing aid to civilians.

[Kennah]

84. It was Iran in 1953 and French Indochina in 1945

[ShazzieB]

46. Question

Did you mean to say "US can't butt the fuck out"? If so, I agree.

I think the US providing Israel with weapons is what people are mainly protesting, though. We could continue to support Israel in a lot of other ways, without supplying the actual weapons to them.

Of course, that wouldn't eliminate ALL the protests and it wouldn't eliminate the antisemitism at all. But I think it might help calm things down. Just a thought.

[Eko]

59. Why is Israel too strategically important?

Our largest military base in the ME is in Qatar.
Here is a map of our bases in the ME.

[Mosby]

8. Zionism is an anti-colonial, indigenous rights movement

Last edited Sun May 5, 2024, 12:51 PM - Edit history (1)

That successfully repatriated indigenous people to their ancestral homeland.

The Zionists did not seek to displace anyone, that occurred in 1947/48 because the Arabs tried to commit genocide against the Zionists but failed. The Arabs who didn't flee from the oncoming Arab armies became citizens of the new nation of Israel.

[Bluesaph]

27. Anti-colonial? Wtf?

How do you come to this belief?

It’s one thing to “repatriate” (that’s also an incorrect term since the generations of people’s transferred to the land were never patriated to begin with). It’s another entirely different thing to draw borders and establish a new nation.

We can “repatriate” first peoples here in America without dis-placing Americans who are already here. We don’t need to create an entirely new nation.

We can “repatriate” African Americans to Africa if they so choose to go without having to draw borders and make a new nation.

This fight is a stupid fight about humans not respecting each other. That’s the bottom line and none are innocent. NONE!

[thucythucy]

69. "We can repatriate first peoples here in America... We don't need to create

an entirely new nation."

Actually, technically speaking First Peoples in America, those on "reservations" anyway, actually are in nations of their own. The US government has signed treaties with those nations. Those nations have their own laws and their own law enforcement. Of course, the treatment of First Peoples by the US government, and the majority of Americans it represents, has been destructive, hypocritical, even, dare I say it? genocidal. And the rights of those nations have been systematically ignored whenever it suits European America. But technically, the nations are already there.

And Liberia, the first attempt to repatriate African Americans to Africa, was indeed a nation created entirely from whole cloth in the first half of the 19th century. Last I checked their flag was still modeled on the US flag, as crafted by that nation's American founders.

The reason Jews felt they needed "an entirely new nation" was because no national government on earth was willing to lift a finger to safeguard their right to live. European governments gladly cooperated with the Nazis to exterminate their Jewish citizens. Those nations not in Europe uniformly refused to take in Jewish refugees attempting to avoid being gassed at Auschwitz or exterminated by the Einsatzgruppen.

Ironically, the most recent rise in antiSemitism, both the rhetoric and the actual violence, can only reinforce those who feel that Jewish people need a Jewish nation to protect them, and to offer a safe haven in the event of another attempt at mass extermination.

I'm no supporter of Netanyahu, and I think many policies by Israel's government in past years have been self defeating, to say the least. The Likud policy of encouraging settlements on the West Bank is one such instance. I think that in the long run a two state solution is the only possible road to peace, and I hope against hope that a ceasefire will soon be reached, the hostages released, and a way can be found for the non-Hamas residents of Gaza, and all the residents of Israel, can live secure in their own homes.

But it does no good to gloss over or even deny the factors that propelled Jews around the world to call for a state with a government dedicated to protecting their existence. And the calls by Hamas for the extermination of Jews, and its apparent willingness to do just that when given the opportunity, can only reinforce the anxiety that led to the creation of Israel in the first place.

[Beastly Boy]

9. If you want to use the Bible as a source,

there has been continuous, and contiguous Jewish presence in what is Israel today for about 2000 years. And if you favor existing historical records over the Bible, you could shorten this period by about 200 years.

I understand why "re-indigenizing" sounds confusing considering Jews have never been completely "de-indiginized" in the first place, even in the face of numerous mass expulsions they suffered throughout these centuries, but who in Israel would you find to be more indigenous to the land than the Jews?

[Bluesaph]

12. Not just Jews. Obviously.

It’s not a hard concept to grasp that they are all indigenous to the land. But the zionists do continue to take more and more of it. I’m not on the side of Palestinians either because they support Hamas. But I’m not naive enough to claim either side is free from guilt.

[Beastly Boy]

17. This is not the issue that you raised.

You objected, with the virtual eye roll, to the term "re-indigenizing" as it applies to Israel's Jews.

Assuming that we are done with this non-issue, you will have to define what your meaning of "indigenous" is. I consider a second generation that was born in any area to be indigenous to it.

Notwithstanding the illegality of Jewish settlements in the West bank by today's international law standards, a short history of the region is in order. The lands of Israel, the West bank and Gaza are currently indigenous to Jews, Arabs, Druze, Bedouin, Armenians, Assyrians and Bahai, among other minorities. Prior to that, they were also indigenous to a long succession of Hittites, Egyptians, Canaanites, Edomeans, Arameans, Phillistines, Assyrians, Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs and Turks and the Brits, among others. All of these successive indigenous populations took land from one another.

Modern Israel is an exception to this rule. Its creation was sanctioned and recognized by the consensus of international communities, the UN, which at the same time sanctioned the creation of a state for the Palestinian Arabs. Jewish Palestinians took the offer and created an independent state, the Arab Palestinians rejected it and ended up stateless. The land known as the West Bank was then promptly annexed by Jordan, and Gaza was annexed by Egypt, until 1967, when Israel occupied these Jordanian and Egyptian regions after the 1967 war.

In this context, you have to be more clear who the Zionists in your narrative are and whose land they take more and more of.

[Bluesaph]

25. Thanks for sharing more history.

I do not like the term re-indigenize in the context of this article because it leads to the impression that there were not, nor have there continuously been, indigenous peoples in the land at issue.

None of the history which you posted changes my impression that it is a bad term to have used in that article. That was and continues to be my argument. Choose a better term that doesn’t imply that the land wasn’t already inhabited by indigenous people prior to the creation of the Zionist state.

[Beastly Boy]

33. The phrase doesn't make the same impression on me, even though I find it a bit awkward.

I don't see it implying that there are no indigenous people other than the Jews in Israel. In fact, there are Palestinian Arabs, Druze, Bedouin, Armenians and Assyrians, among others, who are bona fide citizens of Israel because they are indigenous to the land. To me the phrase implies that the Jews have equal claim to being indigenous to Israel as anyone else claiming it.

If I were to choose a better term, it would be "returning to its ancient homeland" rather than "re-indigenizing in its ancient homeland".

[paleotn]

15. Or until they chuck the goddamn religion.

[Ping Tung]

23. Islam, Judaism, and Christianity all share the same deity with slightly different names.

They're still fighting over which group has the "One True God".

"A cruel God makes a Cruel man" Thomas Paine

You'd think after all the blood shed over it they'd either find a nicer God(ess) the cruel killer God they now share.

[Bad Thoughts]

40. It's Judaism's deity that the others appropriate

[ShazzieB]

48. i don't think Christianity exactly "appropriated" the God of Judaism.

The founder of Christianity was a Jew and so were his first followers, or so we've been told. That implies a much more direct relationship, or at least an intertwined history, between those two religions than either has with Islam. You could say that the Jews who became Christians didn't "appropriate" anything, so much as take their belief in the God they'd always worshipped along with them.

Of course, not everyone accepts this version of the origins of Christianity, but I think it's safe to say that the current adherents of Christianity do.

Islam didn't arise till around 700 CE (iirc), and it didn't arise out of either Judaism or Christianity. Muhammad was familiar with both of those religions, however, and he evidently embraced the idea of monotheism expressed by both. I guess you could call that appropriation, but I don't know that I would.

[Bad Thoughts]

39. Trust Archeology

It shows the existence of Israel and Judea since the Bronze Age Collapse, and that the rituals of Judaism emerged from within Levantine society

No Bible needed. Pure indigenous.

[Bluesaph]

42. That's not my argument.

My argument is plainly that using the term “re-indigenize” is disingenuous because it implies that:

A. They are sending people who once lived there back to their land which is an error since the people who were sent to that land had never lived there and it had been many generations since their ancestors lived there.

B. It implies that the land was devoid of other indigenous peoples who had been in that land and who are also indigenous to the land.

I think using that word is offensive in this context because it offends all of our intellects.

[AnrothElf]

52. I think you misunderstand. There were still Jews in Palestine, even during the diaspora

Not all Jews ever left the Levant.

If some Native Americans were taken to Europe, where they raised families and eventually returned to America after several generations, would you say that those Native Americans were no longer indigenous?

The fact of the matter is Jews are indigenous to the Levant. And no, they didn't all leave for hundreds of years. There were always some Jews remaining in Palestine.

So basically... y'know... yeah.

[Bluesaph]

53. I left Costa Rica and had four kids here in the US

If my kids choose to go live in Costa Rica they have to apply for residency and qualify and after five years they can apply for citizenship.

And even if they go to Costa Rica and step on someone’s land they can’t claim it used to belong to some ancestor and therefore it’s now theirs.

That’s not how it works for anyone else. And that’s not how it works for Israelis either. I’m not anti semite or anti anyone. I just see things rationally without any emotion whatsoever.

Both parties are wrong!

[Bad Thoughts]

60. You chose to leave.

Diaspora was not a choice.

[yellowdogintexas]

68. the Old Testament was not written down until after the Jews returned from the

Babylonian captivity. The priests and leaders realized that if it happened again and another diaspora occurred their entire religion and traditions would be lost.

Much of what forms the first part of the Old Testament originated in tales told by the priests

[MOMFUDSKI]

5. It's not Israel. It is Israel's leader.

How hard is this to get?

[peppertree]

13. Hear, hear

"Can you believe it, Vlad? I spy on them like a son-of-the-beach, and genocide worse than you and Milosevic put together - and the Americans still pretend that I'm an ally (and how!)."

"What a country."

[SunSeeker]

22. Putin's propaganda on Gaza is not pro-Netanyahu, it's pro-Hamas.

Putin is pushing hate against Israel and Democrats, and Biden in particular. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/russia-trying-exploit-americas-divisions-war-gaza-rcna149759

The students are totally being played.

[Orrex]

20. Exactly

The accusation of antisemitism is the only card that Netanyahu has to play, so he and his apologists have worked tirelessly to conflate his own tyrannical, murderous goals with Jewish identity.

[SunSeeker]

26. I'm all for his goal to eliminate Hamas. His settlers expansions, no.

Like everything in the middle east, it's not black and white. Netanyahu is a corrupt, incompetent, right wing asshole who has failed Israel. Israelis support the elimination of Hamas, but do not support Netanyahu.

[Bluesaph]

28. Except Jews still kick Palestinians out of their homes.

I get it that Bibi is the instigator. But he does have support from some Israelis. Same as Hamas has some support from Palestinians.

Neither side is innocent.

[Sky Jewels]

6. "Hamas massacre revealed that slogan's genocidal implications"

And yet it is Netanyahu's Israel that is now carrying out genocide and leveling Gaza.

[AnrothElf]

14. Except it's NOT genocide. It only diminishes the term to abuse it that way.

[Sky Jewels]

56. I'm sure any surviving family members of the tens of thousands of slaughtered Gazans

will be comforted that you don't agree with the term "genocide."

[AnrothElf]

62. Irrelevant. Words have meanings.

[Sky Jewels]

70. The words don't affect the fact that Israeli is brutally slaughtering

and starving Gazans on a massive scale and destroying and leveling great swaths of it.

This scorched earth response to 10/7 had absolutely nothing to do with hostage recovery.

[AnrothElf]

71. Never said war wasn't evil as fuck.

And asymmetrical wars where the weaker side uses human shields is ugly as fuck.

But it's not genocide, and calling it that only diminishes real, actual genocides. Like, say, the holocaust.

[Orrex]

82. How many Palestinians must be murdered before it meets your criteria for genocide?

[AnrothElf]

83. It's gruesome to speak in numbers, but if you want to go there...

Genocide is the attempted or actual extermination of a people. That's not what this is. This is war.

Israel has already agreed to multiple ceasefires, but Hamas has refused the terms. Now Israel refuses Hamas' terms, the same day Hamas bombs a checkpoint, stopping foreign aid from entering Gaza from Israel, and the "But Israel..." crowd descends on the Internet to spread pro-Hamas propaganda.

Why isn't Egypt letting aid in from the south? Maybe because Hamas are terrorists, and they know Hamas will steal it? Yes, that's why.

More innocent civilians have died in Russia's invasion of Ukraine than have died in Gaza, and it hasn't risen to the level of genocide yet, even though -- like Hamas -- Putin has a loud and proud genocidal agenda.

Hamas has a genocidal agenda. Israel does not. Intent is only part of the equation, but it's a big part.

The other part, since we're talking numbers, is percentage. There are millions of Palestinians in Gaza. They are in no danger of disappearing as a people, at present. There are millions more in the West Bank, Jordan, Iran, and elsewhere.

How many died under Assad and where were the protesters then? Something like half a million dead? Where the outrage then? Or now?

Genocide has an ethical dimension, as well. When one side is the aggressor, their losses are often dismissed. Russia has also lost almost half a million in the Russia-Ukraine war. Is that genocide? Many or most of those Russian dead were conscripts, like the kids the US sent to Vietnam.

Slinging accusations of genocide around is dangerous. It diminishes real genocide.

[Orrex]

85. Genocide can be a tool of war, and war can be a mechanism for genocide

Pretending otherwise serves only to provide cover for those who commit genocide.

[AnrothElf]

86. More empty bumper-sticker sloganeering.

[Orrex]

87. Says the wizard of empty bumper-sticker sloganeering

I saw you clearly from your first post on the subject, and I should have known better than to waste time with a reply.

Who cares that tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians are being murdered simply for being Palestinians? The truly important thing is that we not use a word without AnrothElf’s endorsement.

[AnrothElf]

88. LOL "I'm rubber you're glue"

Guess I should've expected this level of discourse from someone who absolutely refuses to use the common definition for words.

Bad faith top to bottom.

[Orrex]

90. No, that's not it.

More like "I'm appalled by the unceasing slaughter of innocent children, and you're more upset about the term genocide than you are about tens of thousand of dead Palestinians." I'm done with you. I've been done with your kind for decades.

But maybe you'd like to parrot some more of Netanyahu's talking points for us before I put you on Ignore?

[AnrothElf]

91. I stand by my position. This is not genocide, and misapplying the term is derogatory and borderline antisemitic.

You do you with the ole ignore button. I've already got a half-dozen pro-Hamas propagandists on Ignore, now.

[egduj]

89. I wish you'd post this in a thousand more threads.

Well done.

[yagotme]

74. Do you think that a TEENY, TINY bit of the continuation of the war

is because HAMAS REFUSES to release the remaining hostages? Just a little? So, I guess the continuation of the war DOES have something to do with the hostages...

[markpkessinger]

77. "Except it's NOT genocide . . . "

Tell that to the mother in the photo of this NY Times column by Nicholas Kristof:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/04/opinion/gaza-child-deaths.html?unlocked_article_code=1.p00.cAZu.AEznp5lNoJgC&smid=url-share

It's a gift link, so there's no paywall to worry about.

[AnrothElf]

78. That's not an argument. It's an appeal to emotion.

[markpkessinger]

79. Children are dying of starvation because Israel won't allow sufficient aid to get through to thsoe who need it . . .

. . . That' is certainly a reasonable definition of genocide.

[AnrothElf]

81. It might be a war crime, but no, by itself it doesn't rise to the definition of genocide.

And that is disputed. Just yesterday Hamas fired rockets and forced Israel to stop aid from entering Gaza.

The US is building a pier to get more aid into Gaza... so what does Hamas do?

They attacked it. That's what.

It's just very "convenient" how y'all never seem to consider Hamas in part of your outrageous and erroneous accusations of "genocide".

It's almost as if some are simply using the term as a bludgeon in attempt to stifle discussion of reality.

[markpkessinger]

80. Also, those who children AREN'T being systematically starved to death have the luxury of quibbling over definitions ...

... while those whose children actually are being starved to death do not.

[Beastly Boy]

18. However arbitrary your definition of "genocide" may be,

it does not negate or even challebge the statement you quoted.

If anything, it invites comparison between the two, which I doubt you would want to examine in light of international law or comparative morality.

[Sky Jewels]

57. I wouldn't be sticking up for Netanyahu's/Israeli government's/IDF's "morality" if I were you.

Israel is slaughtering innocents on a massive scale, including many, many thousands of children. It is leveling whole sections of Gaza, destroying hospitals, denying aid, and starving people out. It's actions have been among the most egregious we've seen on the world stage in the last several decades. Is it any wonder the entire world is reacting with horror to these atrocities?

[Johnny2X2X]

11. Both sides have some bad actors right now

Bibi is brutal and costing Israel a ton of support because he is a corrupt wannabe dictator whose goals seem to be punishment of Palestinian civilians rather than defense of Israel. It’s not genocide or anything close to it, but there are war crimes and immorality being done by BiBi and the military leader extremists he empowered.

Hamas is pure evil and even in peace times are awful for the people of Palestine. They’d obliterate Israel if they had the power to do so, thankfully they do not. I wish Hamas could be limited altogether.

The fact that BiBi has gotten so many to turn against Israel says more about him than it does about the people he’s turned against his country. Nothing justifies willfully starving children, period. Nothing Hamas did could justify what is now happening. And to what end? BiBi knows Hamas is going to remain in power, he appears to just revel in pain and suffering of innocent civilians at this point. There are no real goals other than punishing civilians and if BiBi doesn’t stop the entire world is going to abandon Israel, including Biden.

Israelis need to come to their senses and get rid of their leader. If they don’t, they’re going to find themselves completely alone and eventually they will pay for that. It’s clear to most of the world defense of Israel is no longer the goal, revenge is the only goal. Stop this path of revenge or Israel will lose all support.

[Beastly Boy]

19. I do not disagree with your post, but this is not the subject of the article.

The subject is clearly stated at its very beginning:

How has it come to this? How is it possible that Israel, rather than radical Islamism, would become the villain on liberal campuses? That thousands of students would be chanting “from the river to the sea” even as the Hamas massacre revealed that slogan’s genocidal implications? That the most passionate outbreak of student activism since the 1960s would be devoted to delegitimizing the Jewish people’s story of triumph over annihilation?

This moment didn’t happen in a vacuum.

[Bluesaph]

29. The article asks how it's possible that Israel villain

To my reading, I think he nailed the reason why.

[SunSeeker]

21. How did it come to this? Students ignorant of history were played by social media and influencers.

Students for Justice in Palestine propaganda also had a lot to do with it, and that organization helped organize the encampments, including at my son's college, UCSD. And Putin fueled the devisiveness with his internet troll farm.

And it all played on pre-existing anti-semitism, which has always been there.

[Bluesaph]

30. Anti semitism or anti genocide?

I think at the core of it is that students are legitimately disgusted by Netanyahu’s revenge war.

I’m sure flames were fanned and bad actors took advantage. But the root of it all is people disagree with the methods Israel continues to use.

A person can be disgusted with Hamas for 10/7 AND simultaneously be equally disgusted with the actions which have taken place in revenge.

[SunSeeker]

35. Eliminating Hamas is not revenge, it necessity.

It's just that Netanyahu is doing it incompetently, both politically and militarily, causing excess civilian casualties. But every war has civilian casualties, especially an urban war like this. And Hamas knew this when they started this war. Even when Netanyahu is toppled, Israel will never let Hamas rebuild in Gaza.

[Bluesaph]

41. I understand what you're saying

Which is why the US should stop supporting Israel in this war and why students are protesting.

[KPN]

24. I think the photographic footage of Gaza's dessimation may have had something to do

with creating the feeling that Palestinians are victims. Seems pretty straight forward to me. There's a difference between are the and are victims. There's no question on the latter. And there's pretty solid rationale that obliterating Gaza is not a solution.

Side note: I am generalizing here. No doubt there is some anti-semitism coming into play in some of the stuff going on in campus "protests". But I certainly don't believe that "anti-semitism" drives the protests. I'm a child of the 50s and 60s. Absent the encampments that have become, well, not unique and maybe not as uncommon as some may think since the Occupy movement, the human emotions involved in these protests remind me very much of the campus protests of the 60s. I viewed then and still view those protests as a positive.

[PCIntern]

31. You may well and righteously feel that

Obliterating Gaza is not a solution. Hamas believes that obliterating the Jewish state and the Jews IS a solution. Perhaps the Israeli government and army is teaching them the meaning of the words “obliterate” and “eradicate” since the terrorists use them so freely in their aspirations. Just a thought…

[Johnny2X2X]

34. You nailed it

Israel is out for revenge. They want to punish the people of Palestine for the Hamas attacks of 10/7. Their aim seems to be to teach Palestine a lesson. That’s why their support in the world is withering, this went past defense of Israel months ago and now it’s about something else.

If not revenge, what is the aim of this now? What are the military goals?

[SunSeeker]

37. The IDF's aim now is to eliminate the last remaining Hamas battalion.

That last battalion is hiding behind women and children in Rafah, as is always Hamas' tactic.

[Zeitghost]

54. The goal is and always has been:

Remove Hamas from Gaza.

That's been pretty clear.

[KPN]

51. I understand. I don't condone Hamas one bit. They should be.

obliterated. Obliterating Gaza as a means to obliterate Hamas is inhumane and
monstrous, just as Hamas’ attack on innocent Israeli’s was inhumane and monstrous. Neither action is or was a solution in my mind, and both deserve condemnation. The campus protests are understandable in my mind as well. I understand the outrage and sympathy for innocent Palestinians, as well as the animus towards Netanyahu and the current Israeli government’s approach to Gaza given its effect. My point is the notion that Palestinians are viewed as victims is understandable given the circumstances. Not all Palestinians are Hamas, just like not all Americans are MAGAs.

[PCIntern]

55. Ok. Fair enough.

What’s your plan to eliminate Hamas? What’s your incredibly sophisticated plan utilizing military and not involving civilians who are interspersed, many many willingly, with the terrorists? I’m willing to listen.

[BannonsLiver]

36. Jew hating is as fashionable as ever

As we see daily on this forum, and elsewhere. It’s just a little more latent here than in the outside world.

[DavidDvorkin]

44. It's not so latent here, either, since October 7.

[egduj]

47. You misspelled the word "rampant."

[Sky Jewels]

58. You know what else is rampant?

Disingenuous attempts to silence any criticism of the mass slaughter and leveling of Gaza by Netanyahu/IDF/Israeli government by faking outrage and conflating Netanyahu's evil cabal with "all Jews all over the world." That kind of bullshit undermines attempts to counter actual anti-Semitism.

[yagotme]

75. "Death to Israel" and "Death to America" aren't criticisms of Netty or the Israeli government.

Not in my book.

[iemanja]

93. There sure are a lot of Israeli Jews who are Jew hating

according to your definition. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-03-31-2024-2dfbc154409ae6160b4e594b1b346e13

[LetMyPeopleVote]

38. Good read

[enid602]

61. Control

To control the narrative, people must first learn to control one’s impulses.

[msongs]

63. it's the body count. israel is ahead in the body count war by some 30 to one nt

[Beastly Boy]

64. Not for the lack of trying.

Hamas fired over 5000 rockets ar Israel's civilian centers, and they keep firing.

Not sure what your point is, but I hope it's to congratulate IDF for protecting its civilians so well, and point out how criminally negligent Hamas has been in protecting theirs.

[msongs]

66. the point is israel is way ahead in the number of people being slaughtered and thats bad PR which results

in more protests against it

[Beastly Boy]

72. I understand the rationale, but the assumption behind it is fundamentally flawed

The assumption is that the number of casualties is directly related to the degree of aggression on each side. It is fallacious and prejudicious. Correlation doesn't equal causation, and outcome is not an indicator of intent.

The narrative that is being promoted to fault Israel is built entirely on taking this false assumption for granted. The narrative is dependent in obscuring nuances and focusing solely on this flawed assumption. The intent, both on the part of IDF to target legitimate military objectives and on the part of Hamas to intentionally use civilians as human shields, is being completely ignored in all mentions of the casualties, even though it is clear that the number of casualties is a consequence of intent to cause them.

[yagotme]

76. So, for better PR, Israel should allow more of their people to be killed?

Surely that's not what you're trying to say...

[Cha]

67. Whoa.. Rec! 💙

[LeftInTX]

73. While I agree with you on the body count, the anti-Israel stuff has been going for decades.

This moment didn’t happen in a vacuum. The anti-Zionist forces in academia have been preparing the ground for decades, systematically dismantling the moral basis of each stage of Zionist and Israeli history.

The attack began on the very origins of Zionism, which was transformed from a story of a dispossessed people re-indigenizing in its ancient homeland into one more sordid expression of European colonialism. (Europe’s post-Holocaust gift to the Jews: leaving us with the bill for its sins.)

Next, the birth of Israel in 1948 was reduced to the Nakba, or catastrophe, a Palestinian narrative of total innocence that ignores the ethnic cleansing of Jews from every place where Arab armies were victorious and the subsequent uprooting of the entire Jewish population of the Muslim world. Post-1967 Israel was cast as an apartheid state – turning Zionism, a multi-faceted movement representing Jews across the political and religious spectrum into a racist ideology and reducing an agonizingly complex national conflict into a medieval passion play about Jewish perfidy.

And now, with the Gaza War, we have come to the genocide canard, the endpoint in the process of delegitimization.

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-war-against-the-jewish-story/

_____________

The long-term anti-Zionist stuff unfortunately is bringing about unnecessary anti-Semitism. Now, Israel is being portrayed as Nazi Germany. Protesting Israel for what is going on in Gaza should be the focus, however the movement is being overrun by ordinary people who feel that Israel does not have a right to exist. There are too many young Americans who think the holocaust is a myth. This is disturbing and just causes more polarization. Something is not being taught in our schools.

1 in 5 young Americans think Holocaust was a myth
https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4349815-poll-americans-holocaust-myth/

This is from 2021: Jewish students were called Nazis and genocide apologists before this war even started.

Not just neo-Nazis with tiki torches: Why Jewish students say they also fear cloaked anti-Semitism
“I’m a white supremacist. I’m a Nazi. I kill babies. I’m a genocide apologist. I am a racist. I support ethnic cleansing and colonialism,” Flayton says, quoting some of the abuse hurled at him. “I get more death threats than my parents would probably like to know about.”https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/30/us/american-anti-semitism-students-soh/index.html

[Cha]

65. "In focusing on Israel's actions and dismissing those of Hamas, campus protesters are providing cover for October 7.."

In focusing on Israel’s actions and dismissing those of Hamas, campus protesters are providing cover for October 7 denialism. This is a new version of the Holocaust denialism prevalent in parts of the Muslim world: The atrocities didn’t happen, you deserved them and we’re going to do it again (and again).

And Agreeing with it as shown in various Tweets posted on DU.

On a recent trip to New York, walking along Broadway on the Upper West Side, I saw dozens of defaced posters of kidnapped Israelis. Rather than tear down the posters, the vandals had blacked out the Israeli faces – a literal defacement. And a useful metaphor for the anti-Zionist assault on our being.

[iemanja]

92. It's because of how Netanyahu has chosen to respond to the Hamas attacks

there is a reason for it. Plenty of people in Israel are protesting as well, and they aren't anti-semites. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-03-31-2024-2dfbc154409ae6160b4e594b1b346e13