Hamas attacks border crossing, killing 3, as Gaza cease-fire talks drag on

[Mosby]

Hamas claimed credit Sunday for a deadly rocket attack on the Kerem Shalom border crossing with Israel as cease-fire negotiations dragged on with no breakthrough in sight. The talks are viewed by some U.S. officials as the “last chance” to avoid a return to all-out war in Gaza.

Three soldiers were killed and others were wounded in the attack on Kerem Shalom, according to the Israel Defense Forces, and the crossing was closed for humanitarian aid. The IDF alleged that the rockets came from Rafah, the city in southern Gaza that is home to more than a million displaced Palestinians and, according to Israel, the last intact Hamas battalions.

Israel’s determination to invade Rafah, despite concerns from Washington and other allies, remains a key sticking point in cease-fire negotiations. Hamas insists that any hostage-release deal must include a permanent end to the war and a withdrawal of Israeli troops from the enclave.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/05/05/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza-palestine/

It seems counterproductive to attack border crossings if the goal is to get as much aid into Gaza as possible.

[Cha]

1. "Counterproductive"?.. It's down right Evil. But that's Hamas no mattter

how many protesters Don't' talk about them.

[jimfields33]

2. Hamas is nasty. They are never going to abide by a ceasefire

I hope Israel is very careful with making any agreement with the group who wants them off the map. Tread lightly Israel. Please!

[revmclaren]

3. Unless that is Hamas' goal all along.

No...that couldn't be it. I've read here numerous times that it is only Israel trying to block aid...to starve Gazens...

Hmmmmm.....

[Cha]

9. Well that's been Proven Wrong Many Times.

Those saying that need to do some basic research if they care to know the reality of what's going on.

[revmclaren]

22. Yup

[sheshe2]

4. Hamas claimed credit!

They sound pretty proud of themselves for having closed a crossing meant for humanitarian aid to their desperate citizens.It's almost as if they don't give a ra about their own people. 🤔

I am sure campus protesters will find a way to blame Israel for this.

[Cha]

12. Oh HAMAS is so Proud of Oct 7 & all the Destruction

they've caused.. and now the latest.. "Closing the Border Crossing for Humanitarian Aid & Killing 3 Israeli Soldiers
and wounding 12 more in critical condition:"

[sheshe2]

14. !0/07

It wasn't a bombing. It was up front and personal as they displayed their trophies in their trucks, raped, wounded, dead.

And now they celebrate closing a crossing that would help their own. More death and destruction.

[Cha]

20. Yes.. And Evil Fucking Hamas talking about "sending a Delegation to Eygpt

for ceasefire talks" out one side of their Lying mouths while Killing Israeli Soldiers at the Border crossing for Humanitarian Aid.

Hamas is sending a delegation to Egypt for further cease-fire talks in the latest sign of progress

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-05-02-2024-0699ef663cba7318c375c0ee5bbf20ae

It's Hamas' Genocidal nature like the Fable of the Scorpion and the Frog

[Ace Rothstein]

5. Why would the IDF do that?

Free, free Palastine.

[AloeVera]

6. Looks like the crossing itself was not hit.

Descriptions of the location that was hit are pretty vague. "In the area of", "next to", "towards", "adjacent to" Kerem Shalom Crossing.

The most descriptive I found was this from an Israeli source:

The Eshkol Regional Council says the rockets struck an open area near a military position, causing injuries.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/several-wounded-in-hamas-rocket-barrage-on-south-at-least-10-rockets-fired-from-rafah-area/

Israel’s military said it believed Hamas was targeting soldiers massed on the Gaza border in preparation for a possible Rafah invasion. Hamas said it targeted soldiers in the area.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/06/key-aid-crossing-into-gaza-closed-after-rocket-attack-kills-israeli-soldiers

Curious if anyone has seen pictures of the damage at the crossing itself?

So if the target was a military one, and it was located next to a humanitarian corridor with presumably civilians, isn't that sort of human shield-ish? Also, isn't it true that people have the right to defend themselves against imminent attack, or does that only apply to Israel?

[LexVegas]

7. Wow. Just, wow. nt

[AloeVera]

8. The exact response I was hoping for.

Just wow.

Thanks.

[speak easy]

11. " The exact response I was hoping for."

Yes it was.

[sheshe2]

15. The damage?

Three dead and twelve critical.

Wow. Just wow. I see where you are going here. Not a good place. One would expect a military presence at a border crossing, to assure safe passage for those that are bringing in humanitarian aid. Wouldn't we?

So if the target was a military one, and it was located next to a humanitarian corridor with presumably civilians, isn't that sort of human shield-ish? Also, isn't it true that people have the right to defend themselves against imminent attack, or does that only apply to Israel?

SMDH UFB.

[AloeVera]

16. The acronym caught my eye. Care to spell it out?

You don't need to hide your feelings behind acronyms.

The Israeli military itself said troops were amassed there in prep for an invasion. How easily you skip over that and make up something more palatable.

Was it human shields or self-defence that triggered you the most?

You know what? I see where this is going too. A real bad place. With starving and dead, burned, maimed women, children. And I'm not going to listen to any more bull crap without fighting back. With the facts.

[sheshe2]

17. Oh my dear, I am not hiding my feelings.

The meaning of SMDH UFB Is: Shaking my damn head, unf*cking believable. It's used all the time. When you have been here longer you will be able to pick them up in a NY minute.

Night.

[AloeVera]

18. I imagined worse.

Night.

[mcar]

30. Which is the fault of Hamas

[Happy Hoosier]

26. Is Hamas claiming a target that was not the corssing?

Not so far. They claimed the attack, and did not declare anoter target.

In the abscence of that, I'd suggest your post looks an awful lot like apologetics mixed with some whataboutism. Do you wish to clarify?

[AloeVera]

32. I sure do. Thanks for asking.

First, did you not read the part that said both the Israeli military and Hamas said the target was the soldiers amassed on the border for the invasion?

Further, "an open area near a military target doesn't sound like the crossing itself. Note the language used - rockets landed in the "area of" etc.

Yet people want to believe and Israel feeds the narrative, that it was the crossing targeted.

And I knew, cuz I have this weird spidey sense I wish I didn't have, that this will be used to begin the severe bombing and ground invasion of Rafah. Lo and behold, this morning I was proven sadly right.

I wonder if people realize what this means in terms of EPIC, massive human suffering and death??

As for the comments on human shields and self-defence, I was having a little fun to ease my despair. You might not know that I have been fighting the human shield narrative for months.

I also like to call out hypocrisy when I see it.

But all of it is to despair.

[Happy Hoosier]

37. Thank you for your reply...

I appreciate the target was soldiers near the crossing. That's legit.

But hypocrisy was precisely my point. I've seen thread after thread from Pro-"Palestinian" posters claiming that attack on or near sites that associated with civilian needs cannot be justified by military necessity. yet here we are.

Abd on "EPIC, massive human suffering and death??"

Yeah, wars suck. It's why is was a TERRIBLE idea for Hamas to start THIS one. But let's be clear. What's happening in Gaza is dwarfed by historical examples of urban warfare. I've mentioned before my Mom live in Berline in 1945. During a 2-week period in April-May 1945, 125,000 civilians were killed in the Battle of Berlin. 125,000. In two weeks.

Just a little perspective.

[AloeVera]

39. Our Mom's knew. It should be Never Again for them, for everybody.

I like civil debate, thank you for that.

I missed your point about hypocrisy. It was not Hamas or anyone else claiming human shields, it was just me having a little bitter "fun" at what I have always claimed was an absurd, false narrative. In other words, to claim the IDF was using "human shields" is as absurd and false as claiming the IDF had to bomb bakeries and schools, entire neighbourhoods etc because Hamas uses human shields.

Wars do suck to put it mildly. My Mom grew up in a war zone in WWII in Budapest. I heard awful stories, shaping my anti-war views.

That is why we now have international and humanitarian laws we did not have in 1945. To protect people like your Mom and my Mom.

[Happy Hoosier]

41. Agreed, to a point.

I absolutely think Hamas is using human shields. They are, in fact, using normally protected structures to store weapons and launch operations. They do that not so much to protect them (although it does, to some extent), but to serve the exact purpose it has.... as a propaganda tool. The international a=greements are pretty clear that protected structures are no longer protected if they used for military purposes. Forces are still restricted from deliberately targeting civilians, and "care" (extremely subjective) should be taken to minimize collateral damage, but simply put, Sticking weapons caches in schools and hospitals makes schools and hospitals legitimate targets. Just like stacking up troops at a border crossing where humanitarian aid comes through makes the crossings a legitimate target.

In any case... I think we can agree that we hope for peace. But I can't see any long-term solution that leaves Hamas in power, any more than I could see any end to WWII that left the Nazis, or Imperial Japanese in power. Hamas declared war on Israel on Oct 7. Hamas could end this by surrendering. They refuse to do so.

[AloeVera]

42. "They refuse to do so".

The problem I've always had with human shields is that's not how targets appeared to be selected. And it turned out to be true. See Lavender AI and Where's Daddy. It wasnt the presence of weapons caches etc but the presence of human targets - in their homes, it turns out.

You do not have to destroy an entire hospital complex or an entire university let alone 16 of them. Period.

No, Hamas cannot be left in power. Too radical, terrorist, too tainted. Not good for Palestinians either or for peace in the region.

They did offer to lay down arms, though, did you know that? In one of the latest rounds. In exchange for a permanent ceasefire as well as being left a part of the political process but not run in elections. It wasn't good enough. Israel is determined to raze Rafah in the hopes of "destroying" Hamas. I don't know.. a recipe for an even larger humanitarian disaster if that's possible and mass killing and suffering.

[AloeVera]

33. In case it still wasn't clear...

To claim that the IDF was using "human shields" is as absurd as the IDF claiming it has to bomb schools, hospitals, apartment blocks, bakeries, universities etc because Hamas uses human shields.

[mcar]

29. Hamas is deliberately preventing aid getting in to Gaza

and you are still trying to blame Israel for it.

[AloeVera]

36. Not what I said/did.

I did not put blame anywhere. I pointed out that it is not clear the crossing itself was hit, nor was it the target, per both the Israeli military and Hamas. We actually don't know how "near" or "toward" or "next to" the crossing the attacks occurred. But I knew it didn't matter, the narrative was set and the pretext for an imminent invasion and closing of the crossing was found.

Then I used the human shield and self-defence narratives to point out the absurdity and falsehood of the former and the double standard on the latter.

[mcar]

38. Since Hamas took credit for it, it's OK to blame them

[Beastly Boy]

44. They missed. Great excuse.

The good news is that they didn't bomb their own hospital this time. The bad news is that they are still firing rockets at Israel and killing people.

[AloeVera]

45. Seriously... That analogy and joking is bizarre.

Anyway, great excuse now to invade Rafah.

People have been getting killed in Gaza by the thousands. Most of them not soldiers either. More to come now. That can be considered bad news too. Many people think it's terrible news, not least of all the 600,000 malnourished and traumatized, exhausted children in Rafah.

Israel seems to have rejected a ceasefire deal, and if true, a Hamas attack was inevitable and handed Israel a nice pretext to do what Israel was going to do anyway but sooner and with less preparation for civilian protection.

On Haaretz behind paywall:
May 4, 2024
Report: Hamas Accepts Gaza Cease-fire Deal; Israeli Officials Reject Prospect of War Ending

According to Report: Hamas Accepts Gaza Cease-fire Deal; Israeli Officials Reject Prospect of War Ending report, Hamas was guaranteed by the U.S. for a full Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and that Israeli forces will not continue fighting once the hostages are released ■ An Israeli official told Haaretz that 'Israel will, under no circumstances, agree to end the war as part of a deal' and is determined to enter Rafah.

Hamas is expected to announce on Saturday that it is accepting Egypt's proposal for a cease-fire in the Gaza Strip and the release of hostages, the Saudi newspaper Al-Sharq...

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-04/ty-article/.premium/report-hamas-accepts-gaza-cease-fire-deal-israeli-officials-deny-prospect-of-war-ending/0000018f-42eb-d414-a5bf-f3fff18a0000

It's total insanity and mass psychosis all around. Imho intervention is sorely needed.

[Beastly Boy]

49. Don't look here, look there!

And who cares that the Hamas attack preceded their new offer that Israel understandably rejected? And who cares that hamas bombed Israel immediately AFTER Israel accepted the terms of the cease fire. And who cares that Hamas bombed the vicinity of a crossing through which humanitarian aid flows to Gazan civilians? Suddenly, interrupting the flow of aid to civilians doesn't matter!

By now you should know that Haaretz was too quick on the trigger to publish their story. Hamas didn't agree to the terms of the cease fire that was on the table, nor did it have any intention to accept it. They only made yet another unacceptable offer, far from the Egypt/Qatar proposal Israel already agreed on:

Israel says Hamas offer does not meet key demands, will keep negotiating, is moving forward with Rafah op
Israel’s war cabinet decides unanimously to push ahead with an operation in Rafah “in order to apply military pressure on Hamas, with the goal of making progress on freeing the hostages and the other war aims,” the Prime Minister’s Office says in a statement.

The statement says Hamas’s latest truce offer is “far from Israel’s essential demands.”

Nonetheless, Israel is going to send working-level teams to hold talks with the mediators in order “to exhaust the possibility of achieving an agreement on terms that are acceptable to Israel,” says the PMO.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-says-hamas-offer-does-not-meet-key-demands-is-moving-forward-with-rafah-op/

Nothing changed since Israel accepted the ceasefire proposal. Hamas is still playing games, and is as belligerent as ever, dashing the hopes of a million Gazan civilians as well as hostage families.

[AloeVera]

50. Alternate universe?

Proportionality seems an alien concept to Israel and supporters. It's easily dismissed with cute platitudes.

And who cares that the Hamas attack preceded their new offer that Israel understandably rejected

Wrong. Hamas accepted the ceasefire offer May 4th or earlier. I base this on the fact the Haaretz article is dated May 4. A day before the attack somewhere near the crossing.Israel then leaked that it would go into Rafah regardless. Do you not see how that would be viewed by Hamas as a provocation?

The rest of your post is confusing. What ceasefire did Israel accept? Is there latest breaking news or do you mean the framework that Israel itself created was accepted - by Israel? Is there an alternate universe I don't know about?

I think life is calling me. Go ahead and make a cute comment on that if you wish. Otherwise, we're done here.

[Beastly Boy]

51. Indeed it is.

Your words:

Wrong. Hamas accepted the ceasefire offer May 4th or earlier.

In what universe? Hamas did NOT accept the ceasefire offer on May 4, or earlier, or later. I promptly informed you of this fact in the previous post, which you overlooked just as promptly. Hamas came up with its own plan, inconsistent with the ceasefire agreement already accepted by Israel. If you find my reference to this agreement confusing, and are wondering what ceasefire it is, you can google the subject and get all the details on it your heart desires.

The Haaretz article dated May 4 did not report that Hamas accepted the cease fire offer. It reported an unconfirmed statement from a Saudi source expecting Hamas to accept the cease fire:

Hamas is expected to announce on Saturday that it is accepting Egypt's proposal for a cease-fire in the Gaza Strip and the release of hostages, the Saudi newspaper Al-Sharq reported on Saturday morning.

As you are fully aware now, the Haaretz article did not live up to the expectations it reported. It jumped the Al-Sharq, pardon the pun.

Nice try, but you missed the mark by almost as much as the Hamas rockets missed the Kerem Shalom crossing. I guess missing the mark is becoming a common theme of this exchange.

[RandySF]

10. The UN will ignore this.

[betsuni]

13. Of course, stopping humanitarian aid is Hamas's goal.

[sheshe2]

19. One would think...

One would think that the campus Hamas/Palestinian supporters would get that. They don't.

I think they should all be in Palestine protesting Hamas or fighting for the cause they hold so dear. They can chant ‘From the river to the sea' there.

[betsuni]

21. It's a mystery to me why students, who are used to doing research about facts, writing papers, taking tests,

can't do this. What's that fancy expensive education for? I don't get it. I don't know if it's true, but I doubt this bullshit is a thing at community colleges where people live in reality.

[SoFlaBro]

24. Know what the fuck I don't hear? "HAMAS Ceasefire in Gaza and don't kill civilians. STOP shooting rockets into Israel!"

The protestors have plenty of suggestions for Israel.

[AloeVera]

25. Too late for "help".

I woke up to news evacuation of civilians has begun. Attack is imminent.

Israel says it has no choice.

What did I say last night?

SMDH UFB.

[Happy Hoosier]

27. Nope, the lines are drawn, and for some....

... the old adage of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" comes in to play. They may not particularly like Hamas, but they HATE ISrael and are willing to consort with some really shitty people to fight what they view as a worse enemy. It's a very human reaction and we all engage in it to some degree. But this one is a bridge too far IMO.

[SoFlaBro]

23. Hamas is shit. This is exactly what they want: return fire from Israel killing as many Palestinian children as possible.

Hamas doesn't give a fuck about any one in Palestine except Hamas.

[mcar]

28. I sure hope all the students who only care about Palestinians

are protesting Hamas about this - they are purposely starving their own people.

[BannonsLiver]

34. They view Hamas as heroic

And from the looks of this thread, they aren’t alone.

[mcar]

35. Pretty sad, isn't it?

[Cha]

52. Real News for them... Dripping with Blood,

Genocidal Terrorists are Not "heroic".

[Nixie]

31. Yes, and why is Hamas still attacking anything if they want

Israel to surrender.

[Zeitghost]

40. What would ever give you the impression

That the goal of Hamas was to get as much aid into Gaza as possible?

[BannonsLiver]

43. Nothing justifies this.

That is all.

[Mosby]

46. Ruben Marc Mordechai Assouline

Link to tweet

[Mosby]

47. Ido Testa

Link to tweet

[Mosby]

48. Tal Shavit

Link to tweet