Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
48 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
No Jew is safe until everyone is safe, and no Jew is free until Palestine is free (Original Post) ripcord May 2024 OP
That's the mentality Jews are dealing with. Elessar Zappa May 2024 #1
That and the constant "'splaining" Behind the Aegis May 2024 #39
I'd say the mask is fully off but this is beyond that. Ace Rothstein May 2024 #2
A very strongly implied threat. RandySF May 2024 #3
Israelis and Palestinians are ill served by their governments. They need to free themselves and jail the politicians. marble falls May 2024 #4
What about non Israeli Jews Mossfern May 2024 #14
You mean like all the reasonable sorts who follow leaders like the late terrorist, Meir Kahane? It is Americans ... marble falls May 2024 #25
The vast majority of American Jewish people Mossfern May 2024 #29
At least I don't broad brush it. Do you think the vast majority of Palestinians are Harmas? ... marble falls May 2024 #34
I never once alluded to Palestinians all being Hamas Mossfern May 2024 #42
It's true... Think. Again. May 2024 #5
It's true? sarisataka May 2024 #9
That's a terrible thing to say... Think. Again. May 2024 #10
I think what needs deletion is sarisataka May 2024 #11
Please refrain from... Think. Again. May 2024 #12
No that is not what was said. Demsrule86 May 2024 #18
You don't understand what the phrase. Think. Again. May 2024 #36
Re your edit FBaggins May 2024 #20
IDF is killing innocent people too. Think. Again. May 2024 #37
Not even close to the same thing FBaggins May 2024 #44
You don't understand this thread at all, do you? Think. Again. May 2024 #45
An incredibly ironic post FBaggins May 2024 #46
"I know you are but what am I?" Really? Think. Again. May 2024 #48
You kind of said that by saying via quote 'no Jews were innocent'... Demsrule86 May 2024 #19
I don't see that at all. marble falls May 2024 #27
Who are you responding to? Nobody on this thread ever said anything remotely like that. marble falls May 2024 #26
It is my interpretation of what is being said sarisataka May 2024 #32
Your point is about the danger of normalization of violence towards innocents. AloeVera May 2024 #28
Thank you. Think. Again. May 2024 #38
Isn't this the same fucking team that was blubbering about "collective punishment is genocide"? SoFlaBro May 2024 #6
Sickening Johnny2X2X May 2024 #7
The OP should delete this. To say all Jews everywhere are responsible for a free Palestine...is Demsrule86 May 2024 #17
Let me guess, this is a quote from Orwell's "1984", right? Beastly Boy May 2024 #8
It's a threat Bad Thoughts May 2024 #13
I was about to say, "Wait til people justify this" Sympthsical May 2024 #15
This sort of nonsense puts a target on the back of every jew...everywhere. I hope Demsrule86 May 2024 #21
They know precisely what they're saying Sympthsical May 2024 #22
I agree...rec Demsrule86 May 2024 #30
Well.... Behind the Aegis May 2024 #35
That is completely ridiculous. Jews are not responsible for Israel...especially those who Demsrule86 May 2024 #16
This message was self-deleted by its author Celerity May 2024 #23
For information: "No Jew is safe until everyone is safe" is a quote of an ADL regional director muriel_volestrangler May 2024 #24
I'm not sure the Columbia NLG and the ADL are using that phrase the same way. n/t CincyDem May 2024 #31
This message was self-deleted by its author Celerity May 2024 #33
Yes, it is. muriel_volestrangler May 2024 #41
I have had a rethink, & I am going to take down my 2 replies in this thread, I incorrectly bought into some other posts Celerity May 2024 #43
Mature, honest, discussion is a wonderful thing. Thank You. Think. Again. May 2024 #47
Thank you for that clarification. Think. Again. May 2024 #40

Behind the Aegis

(56,108 posts)
39. That and the constant "'splaining"
Mon May 6, 2024, 04:36 PM
May 2024

See, we are just too stupid to understand the "good intentions" of shit like this.

marble falls

(71,926 posts)
4. Israelis and Palestinians are ill served by their governments. They need to free themselves and jail the politicians.
Mon May 6, 2024, 11:36 AM
May 2024

Mossfern

(4,716 posts)
14. What about non Israeli Jews
Mon May 6, 2024, 02:13 PM
May 2024

It seems that the threat pertains to them.
How do American Jews make Israelis and Palestinians "fall in line" so that American Jews will not be threatened.

This is just not acceptable - there is no excuse for messages like this.

marble falls

(71,926 posts)
25. You mean like all the reasonable sorts who follow leaders like the late terrorist, Meir Kahane? It is Americans ...
Mon May 6, 2024, 03:25 PM
May 2024

... who finance a lot of the outrage and illegal settlements.


Meir Kahane

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meir_Kahane

Extended-protected article

Meir Kahane
מאיר כהנא
Kahane in New York in 1984
Faction represented in the Knesset
1984–1988 Kach
Personal details


Brooklyn College (BA)
New York Law School (LLB)
New York University (MA)

Meir David HaKohen Kahane (/kəˈhɑːnə/ kə-HAH-nə; Hebrew: רבי מאיר דוד הכהן כהנא; born Martin David Kahane;[1] August 1, 1932 – November 5, 1990) was an American-born Israeli ordained Orthodox rabbi, writer, and ultra-nationalist politician who served one term in Israel's Knesset before being convicted of acts of terrorism. He founded the Israeli political party Kach. A cofounder of the Jewish Defense League (JDL), he espoused strong views against antisemitism.

According to his widow, he organized defense squads and patrols in Jewish neighborhoods, and demanded that the Soviet Union allow Refusenik to emigrate to Israel.[2] He supported violence against those he regarded as enemies of the Jewish people, and called for immediate Jewish mass migration to Israel to avoid a potential "Holocaust" in the United States, popularizing the slogan Never Again through a book of the same name.[3] He also popularized the slogan "For Every Jew a .22."[4] He supported the restriction of Israel's democracy to its Jewish citizens, and endorsed the annexation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.[5]

In 1968, Kahane was one of the co-founders of the JDL in the United States. In 1971, he co-founded Kach ("Thus&quot , a new political party in Israel. That same year, he was convicted in New York for conspiracy to manufacture explosives and received a suspended sentence of five years.[6] In Israel, he was convicted for plotting to blow up the Libyan embassy in Brussels in revenge for the massacre of 11 Israeli athletes at the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich, receiving a suspended sentence and probation.[7] In 1984, he became a member of the Knesset, when Kach gained its only-ever seat in parliamentary elections. Kahane was boycotted across the aisles of the Knesset, and would often speak in front of an empty chamber. The Israel Broadcasting Authority similarly avoided coverage of his activities. The Central Elections Committee tried to ban Kahane from running in the 1984 elections, but this ban was overturned by the Supreme Court because there was no law to support it. In response, the Knesset approved an ad hoc law that allowed for the banning of parties that are "racist" or "undemocratic". In 1988, despite polls showing Kach gaining popularity due in part to the ongoing First Intifada, Kach was banned from entering that year's elections.[8]

Kahane publicized his Kahanism ideology through published works, weekly articles, speeches, debates on college campuses and in synagogues throughout the United States, and appearances on various televised programs and radio shows. In Israel, he proposed enforcing Halakha as codified by Maimonides[9] and hoped that Israel would eventually adopt Halakha as state law.[10] Non-Jews wishing to dwell in Israel would have three options: remain as "resident strangers" with limited rights,[11] leave Israel and receive compensation for their property, or be forcibly removed without compensation.[12] While serving in the Knesset in the mid-1980s Kahane proposed numerous laws, none of which passed, to emphasize Judaism in public schools, reduce Israel's bureaucracy, forbid sexual relations between Jews and non-Jews, separate Jewish and Arab neighborhoods, and end cultural meetings between Jewish and Arab students.[8] He went as far as to demand that non-Jews in Israel either become slaves or face deportation.[13] Kahane was assassinated in a New York City hotel by an Egyptian-born U.S. citizen in November 1990. His legacy continues to influence militant and far-right political groups active today in Israel.[14]

-snip-

Mossfern

(4,716 posts)
29. The vast majority of American Jewish people
Mon May 6, 2024, 03:38 PM
May 2024

do NOT support Kahane or the JDL.
Picking out a small group of radicals doesn't come close to proving your point.

marble falls

(71,926 posts)
34. At least I don't broad brush it. Do you think the vast majority of Palestinians are Harmas? ...
Mon May 6, 2024, 03:59 PM
May 2024

... Pretending there aren't radical, hateful people included in Israel isn't productive, either.

I don't believe the vast majority of Israelis or American Jews support Bibi Netanyahu's outrages.

There have thousands of US students across the US protesting Netanyahu's outrages. There have been tens of thousands of Israelis protesting Netanyahu, too.


I repeat: Israelis and Palestinians have been ill served by their leaders.

Mossfern

(4,716 posts)
42. I never once alluded to Palestinians all being Hamas
Mon May 6, 2024, 05:14 PM
May 2024

I don't know why you are even bringing that up.
I don't recall anyone on this forum saying that.

However, this OP is showing a message that seems like a threat to all Jews.
It has nothing to do with the student protests - not unless you are saying that the protests pose a threat to Jewish people; and if they are, why do you think that's so?

If not, what do you think the chanting means?

 

Think. Again.

(22,456 posts)
5. It's true...
Mon May 6, 2024, 11:50 AM
May 2024

...you wouldn't think it would have to be said that if it's ok to kill innocent civilians of any group, it's ok to kill innocent civilians of all groups.

You would think we had learned that already.

 

Think. Again.

(22,456 posts)
10. That's a terrible thing to say...
Mon May 6, 2024, 02:02 PM
May 2024

..and has nothing to do with this thread.

You should delete that.

sarisataka

(22,695 posts)
11. I think what needs deletion is
Mon May 6, 2024, 02:08 PM
May 2024
if it's ok to kill innocent civilians of any group, it's ok to kill innocent civilians of all groups.


What I wrote is what this thread is about. The comment about Jews not being safe is simply justification for attacking innocent people. An attack on one innocent is in no way justification for an attack on another.

It is shocking that needs to be said out loud and more that there are people who disagree.
 

Think. Again.

(22,456 posts)
12. Please refrain from...
Mon May 6, 2024, 02:10 PM
May 2024

...taking my words out of context, thank you.

Edit to add:

We're in agreement when you say:

" An attack on one innocent is in no way justification for an attack on another."

That was obviously the point of my post

Now if we could only get that message to netanyahu.

Demsrule86

(71,542 posts)
18. No that is not what was said.
Mon May 6, 2024, 02:33 PM
May 2024

"No Jew is safe until everyone is safe, and no Jew is free until Palestine is free."

The above is what you posted...nothing about innocents. It is untrue and despicable.

 

Think. Again.

(22,456 posts)
36. You don't understand what the phrase.
Mon May 6, 2024, 04:30 PM
May 2024

"No Jew is safe until everyone is safe, and no Jew is free until Palestine is free."

Means?

It means that since Jews are part of "everybody", then no one group of us is safe, including Jews (and anyone else), until we are all safe.

And it is true.

If killing innocent people, any innocent people, is okay, then we are all in danger, and not safe.



FBaggins

(28,706 posts)
20. Re your edit
Mon May 6, 2024, 02:35 PM
May 2024
" An attack on one innocent is in no way justification for an attack on another."

That was obviously the point of my post


Cannot be squared with:

.you wouldn't think it would have to be said that if it's ok to kill innocent civilians of any group, it's ok to kill innocent civilians of all groups

Of course... it apparently also needs to be said that there's only one group acting as though it's ok to kill innocent civilians. And that's Hamas.

FBaggins

(28,706 posts)
44. Not even close to the same thing
Mon May 6, 2024, 05:27 PM
May 2024

One side is not only willing but anxious to kill civilians (including their own). The other side is not dissuaded from legitimate military targets by the fact that they co-locate with civilians.

Civilian casualties are never "ok"... and should be minimized whenever possible. But there is no moral equivalency between being willing to accept collateral casualties in warfare and the intentional targeting of those civilians.

sarisataka

(22,695 posts)
32. It is my interpretation of what is being said
Mon May 6, 2024, 03:51 PM
May 2024

Of course, no one would say that word-for-word. However, we are seeing when it comes to attitudes towards Jews the cynical interpretation is likely the accurate one.

AloeVera

(4,263 posts)
28. Your point is about the danger of normalization of violence towards innocents.
Mon May 6, 2024, 03:36 PM
May 2024

An excellent point. But sadly misunderstood/misinterpreted by the other posters here.

I get it, and I think a lot of people would.

SoFlaBro

(3,790 posts)
6. Isn't this the same fucking team that was blubbering about "collective punishment is genocide"?
Mon May 6, 2024, 11:53 AM
May 2024

Johnny2X2X

(24,207 posts)
7. Sickening
Mon May 6, 2024, 11:53 AM
May 2024

Has it even occurred to some of thes epeople that a lot of American Jews don't give a flying fart what is going on in Israel, it's not their country, they are American and don't care about Israel any more than they do about Sweden or New Zealand?

That's the antisemiticsm, to think all Jews in America not only care about this conflict, but that they have any tangible role in it. It's the same tripe when an Islamic terror attack happens, as if American Muslims have anything to do with it.

Demsrule86

(71,542 posts)
17. The OP should delete this. To say all Jews everywhere are responsible for a free Palestine...is
Mon May 6, 2024, 02:30 PM
May 2024

ridiculous and antisemitic pure and simple.

Sympthsical

(10,969 posts)
15. I was about to say, "Wait til people justify this"
Mon May 6, 2024, 02:22 PM
May 2024

But that shit started before I had my shoes on.

Boy howdy.

So, uh . . . . is the Columbia Law Chapter outside agitators still?

Demsrule86

(71,542 posts)
21. This sort of nonsense puts a target on the back of every jew...everywhere. I hope
Mon May 6, 2024, 02:37 PM
May 2024

those responsible for releasing this antisemitic quote are A. fired (faculty) or B. expelled (students).

Sympthsical

(10,969 posts)
22. They know precisely what they're saying
Mon May 6, 2024, 02:44 PM
May 2024

They want Jews - American Jews - to feel threatened and unsafe.

This is what the authoritarians look like under the guise of anti-oppression.

We know who they are. They advertise at every opportunity.

I believe them.

Demsrule86

(71,542 posts)
16. That is completely ridiculous. Jews are not responsible for Israel...especially those who
Mon May 6, 2024, 02:27 PM
May 2024

Last edited Mon May 6, 2024, 03:50 PM - Edit history (2)

don't live there. In case you fail to notice Israelis were out in the street protesting the war and Netanyahu. This post is antisemitic and you should self-delete.

Response to ripcord (Original post)

muriel_volestrangler

(106,210 posts)
24. For information: "No Jew is safe until everyone is safe" is a quote of an ADL regional director
Mon May 6, 2024, 02:50 PM
May 2024
The panelists discussed causes of anti-Semitism and responses to it, including a plea from panelist Carolyn Normandin of the Michigan Anti-Defamation league to “report, report, report,” incidents, first to police and then to her agency, by going to adl.org.
...
Panelists said Jews have to stand up for all groups being targeted — including Muslims and those of other faiths, people of color and the LGBTQ community.

“No Jew is safe until everyone is safe,” Normandin said.

https://www.theoaklandpress.com/2020/01/27/recent-events-stoke-concerns-of-rising-anti-semitism/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/carolyn-normandin-9947275

Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #24)

muriel_volestrangler

(106,210 posts)
41. Yes, it is.
Mon May 6, 2024, 04:56 PM
May 2024

The CLG (their letter is written, clearly, by Jewish members of the CLG at the Columbia protests) are complaining about the danger to the protestors, and to Palestinians - "Our safety cannot be predicated on the oppression of others, whether campus protestors or Palestinians". That matches well with the "Panelists said Jews have to stand up for all groups being targeted — including Muslims and those of other faiths, people of color and the LGBTQ community" that preceded the ADL use.

Celerity

(54,407 posts)
43. I have had a rethink, & I am going to take down my 2 replies in this thread, I incorrectly bought into some other posts
Mon May 6, 2024, 05:19 PM
May 2024

cheers

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»No Jew is safe until ever...