Is blaming US Jews for Israel's policies anti-semitic?

[ripcord]

Simple question.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

1. Absofuckinglutely!

[debm55]

27. Agree

[unblock]

4. And yet it's a concept some people have trouble with

[tritsofme]

18. I wish that were true! Unfortunately it has been made very relevant, your protestations notwithstanding.

[Johnny2X2X]

3. Yes, clearly is

And it’s one of the main myths people use to slander them. That they’re loyal to Israel over the US and control Israel.

[GumboYaYa]

5. Blaming any Jew for Israel's policies is anti-semitic.

Objecting to the policies of Israel's radical right wing government is not antisemitism.

[msongs]

7. yes but isnt netanyahu jewish? many seem to blame him for Israel policies nt

[GumboYaYa]

9. LOL, I should have made that exception.

It is okay to blame Bibi for his policies.

[Redleg]

24. Is it also okay to blame those who support his policies?

Seems to me that there it's just more than Bibi. Of course he deserves the lion's share of blame because he's the lead dude.

[wnylib]

39. Does anyone have room in their condemnations to blame Hamas

for its policies and actions?

If not, it looks like their judgment is very selective.

[Eko]

42. Of course.

[Crunchy Frog]

61. Hamas doesn't lead a democratic government and hasn't been subjected to elections in nearly 20 years.

It also maintains a machinery of repression that effectively prevents other viewpoints from even getting a hearing.

So I would not say that the two are equivalent.

Apart from that, there is frequent and ongoing condemnation of Hamas but this specific question was about Israel and its policies.

[Redleg]

69. I have blamed Hamas plenty

I also happen to have higher expectations for the democratic state of Israel than I do of the Hamas terrorists.

[Crunchy Frog]

60. If it was just Bibi, then Israel wouldn't be a democracy.

It's a fact that Likud and other right wing parties get the most votes, and that's what keeps Bibi in power and the current destructive policies continuing.

[lapucelle]

29. Netanyahu is not a US Jew. He is a corrupt, self-interested, right wing Israeli politician. N/T

[lapucelle]

26. Is Netanyahu a US Jew?

[wnylib]

33. Isn't the OP about blaming US Jews for Israel's policies, and not about Netanyahu?

[AloeVera]

10. Agree 100%!!

Though I would not limit that to the current government. It's a long, complex conflict that wasn't created under the current government out of the blue.

[exoskeleton]

55. This is the right answer.

Not all Jewish people agree with Netanyahu. Not all Republicans agree with Trump. It just seems like those with the lowest control of their sphincter spew the most excrement.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

6. Many if not most American Jews and many in not most Israelis do NOT support Bibi Netanyahu

Bibi is an asshole who using the assault in Gaza to stay in power. There have been major protests in Israel of Bibi's policies. Many American Jews and Israelis have been and will continue to attack Bibi.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Without Biden, Bibi Netanyahu’ violation of human rights would be much worse

Link to tweet

Bibi needs to go and attacking Bibi is not anti-Semitic

[wnylib]

35. What's that got to do with the OP topic of blaming

US Jews for Israel's policies?

Looks like this thread is getting derailed.

[mcar]

8. Yes

[Eko]

11. It can be.

Blaming all US Jews for Israel's policies is anti-semitic.
Blaming US Jews for Israel's policies when you don't know that persons views on the policies is anti-semitic.
Blaming US Jews for Israel's policies who support those policies is not anti-semitic.

[wnylib]

36. Which Israeli policies are you referring to?

I oppose some Israeli policies and support others.

I am not Jewish.

[Eko]

41. It doesnt have anything to do with ones I support or dont support.

The question was "Is blaming US Jews for Israel's policies anti-semitic?"
Reframing that to "Are US citizens to blame for Trump's policies when he was in office?" Shows how the question is not a good question. The ones who voted for dump and supported those policies are to blame but for all of us here who did not vote and resisted his policies are not.

[wnylib]

44. "israeli policies" is a sweeping statement that needs clarification.

Or else it is meaningless. The problems between Israel and Palestinians is very complex with a long history. I cannot take a "one size fits all" perspective.

[Eko]

45. The whole question was a sweeping statement.

[Crunchy Frog]

62. There's also lots of room to blame America's hard core Christians.

They are currently probably the largest constituency in this country supporting Bibi and his hardline policies.

[appmanga]

12. I don't know if it's anti-Semitic...

...but it's weird and inaccurate to conflate the two. There are many Jews in this country who abhor what the Netanyahu government has done, and is doing, in Gaza. And they haven't been silent about it and agree that being critical of Israel doesn't mean someone is anti-Jewish or anti-Israel. Most people I speak to are strongly pro-Israel, but strongly disagree with what Netanyahu administration is doing in Gaza. That's where I stand as well.

[JustAnotherGen]

13. Absolutely!

It makes no sense!

[J_William_Ryan]

14. "Is blaming US Jews for Israel's policies anti-semitic?"

No.

But it is ignorant and wrongheaded.

[Progressive dog]

15. Yes

[Biophilic]

16. I find this to be a really strange question for anyone on DU.

What do the Americans who happen to be Jewish have to do with the mess in the Middle East? We are Americans first, our religions are on a whole different plane. Yes I know that’s not true for everyone, but no way should we even ask your question.

[comradebillyboy]

17. Yes it is.

[Diraven]

19. Yes, unless

Unless it's AIPAC, whose whole purpose is to convince Americans to support Israeli government policies unconditionally.

[lapucelle]

30. ...

AIPAC has condemned Netanyahu's alliance with the far right, and, and unlike extremists from both ends of the horseshoe, AIPAC supports a two state solution.

We support pro-Israel policies that strengthen and expand the U.S.-Israel relationship in ways that enhance the security of the United States and Israel.

snip----------------------------------------------------------------

Since its founding in 1948, Israel has extended its hand in peace to its neighbors. Israel signed historic peace agreements with the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Bahrain, Sudan and Morocco, joining Egypt and Jordan in paving the path to peace through recognition and engagement rather than prolonging the conflict by seeking to isolate and boycott the Jewish state.

These historic accords are made possible through a strong U.S.-Israel relationship cemented by decades of bipartisan congressional support for Israel’s security.

America can play a central role in helping create the conditions for a lasting peace—including a negotiated two-state agreement between Israel and the Palestinians.

A viable two-state agreement is only attainable if America’s support for Israel is ironclad, and the Jewish state knows it can take risks for peace because its ally and partner has its back.

https://www.aipac.org/policy-peace

--------------------------------------------------------------

American Israel lobby condemns Netanyahu deal with far-right party

JERUSALEM — Criticism of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his right-wing government has been heard from American Jews for a while now, but a simple 20-word tweet from the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the largest American Israel lobby, has sent shock waves through the political establishment here.

snip==============

For AIPAC, which is often considered Netanyahu’s support base in the United States, the decision to criticize such a move is even more unusual. The pro-Israel lobby endeavors to remain apolitical, and the decision to air its view on this point was probably taken with much deliberation.

snip========================

Former army chief of staff Benny Gantz, Netanyahu’s main rival for prime minister, tweeted that AIPAC’s statement “proves that Benjamin Netanyahu once again crossed ethical lines just to hold onto his seat, badly hurting Israel’s image, Jewish morality and our important relations with the American Jewish community.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/american-jewish-lobby-issues-rare-condemnation-of-netanyahu-deal-with-far-right-israeli-party/2019/02/25/c90d3bd8-38ec-11e9-a2cd-307b06d0257b_story.html

[sheshe2]

32. This!

Thank you, lapucelle. You always bring the receipts.

[Martin Eden]

49. "A viable two-state agreement is only attainable if America's support for Israel is ironclad...

...and the Jewish state knows it can take risks for peace because its ally and partner has its back"

Does that mean AIPAC would support the US withholding aid which directly enables policies that are destroying any prospect for a two-state solution?

If the prospects for peace and a two-state solution are being severely damaged by the policies and actions of the Israeli government, then having Israel's back would entail the US doing everything it can to change the course of those policies and actions.

For example, continual expansion of Jewish settlements in the West Bank has for decades been establishing facts on the ground that are making a two-state solution nearly impossible.

Unconditional aid which helps fund that expansion directly contradicts what AIPAC ostensibly believes is in Israel's best interests.

I assume the same goes for the massive bombing campaign in Gaza.

[lapucelle]

58. There is no unconditional US aid that is funding expansion. N/T

[Martin Eden]

59. So then, which of our aid is conditional?

Or are you saying the Israeli government incurs no costs whatsoever for the expansion of settlements?

Not even the added security forces to protect the settlers and man checkpoints?

Regardless, couldn't making the $3 billion aid conditional on halting expansion of settlements or scaling back the bombing of Gaza influence Israel to alter such policies to be more in line with AIPAC and the US?

[lapucelle]

67. Sorry. That doesn't work on me.

Your claim concerns apocryphal

Unconditional aid which helps fund [...] expansion [into the West Bank]

Not only is there no "unconditional" US aid that helps fund expansion, the Biden administration imposed sanctions on West Bank settlers in February and then again in March. Israeli banks are complying with the sanctions.

Biden administration imposes first sanctions on West Bank settler outposts

The Biden administration announced sanctions on two West Bank settler outposts on Thursday, marking the first time ever that economic restrictions have been placed on entire Israeli outposts in the Palestinian territory.

The sanctions were issued because of acts of violence against civilians, the State Department said in a statement announcing the measures. “There is no justification for extremist violence against civilians, whatever their national origin, ethnicity, race, or religion,” the department said.

snip=============================

The sanctions block access to U.S. property or assets and prohibit financial institutions from working with those targeted. After the United States announced sanctions on four settlers in February, Israeli banks said they would comply with the sanctions, and the settlers told Israeli media that their accounts had been frozen, despite complaints from far-right Israeli ministers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/14/west-bank-settlement-sanctions-biden/

---------------------------------

*Anyone* interested in understanding the predicates and conditions for disbursing aid and in the requirements imposed by federal governing and enabling statutes should probably begin here:

H.R.815 - Making emergency supplemental appropriations for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2024, and for other purposes.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/815/text

---------------------------------------------------------------

Given the Biden Administration's policy positions, unsupported narratives claiming that the US provides *unconditional aid that helps fund expansion* may serve to further the "vote uncommitted / don't vote in November" agenda.

[Crunchy Frog]

63. Ignoring the fact that Netenyahu IS the far right,

and has worked tirelessly against the two state solution for his entire political career.

[wnylib]

43. Seems that they have a couple Palestinian counterparts

Last edited Tue May 7, 2024, 10:32 PM - Edit history (1)

in USCPR and CAIR who pressure US members of Congress to support Palestinian policies unconditionally, often without regard for factual information. CAIR has ties to Hamas. USCPR has multiple affiliates, some of which get funds from Hamas.

[Crunchy Frog]

64. How influential are they in US politics compared to AIPAC?

I've never heard of the 1st one, and barely heard of the 2nd.

[grumpyduck]

20. I don't understand the basis of the question.

The vast majority of American Jews probably have nothing to do with Israel's government's war actions. Blaming them is ridiculous.

Blaming the Israeli people for their government's war actions is also ridiculous. The blame lies with a portion of the government.

So, a simple answer to a simple question: no, I don't think it's anti-Semitic. I think it's just plain bullshit willful ignorance, which many Americans have shown they excel at. Of course, some people who are (or like to think they are) anti-Semitic will pull out any excuse to blame Jews for anything.

Just like magats will pull out any excuse to blame Democrats for anything.

[Beastly Boy]

25. An interesting take.

Does willful ignorance exempt anyone from being antisemitic?

Are willfully ignorant people blaming US Jews for Israel's policies antisemitic?

It took some thought, but I think my answers to the above questions are no and yes, respectively.

[grumpyduck]

38. Given what i read in the news nowadays,

I have serious doubts about whether some of tbe people raising hell out there today even know what "anti- Semitic" means.

And until I can see a lineup of people blaming Jews for this or that, detailing their personal beliefs and prejuduces, I won't assune anything.

But I totally believe rhat questions like the OP, nowadays, are often put that way to create arguments and seed dissention. No offense meant.

[brooklynite]

21. Jews are not Israelis. Israelis are not the Netanyahu Government.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

22. Yep

[sarisataka]

23. Simple question, simple answer

But a surprising number of people can't bring themselves to say it.

OTH maybe it isn't so surprising. Old hatreds are hard to eliminate.

[Behind the Aegis]

46. Yup, including in this VERY thread.

Very telling.

[RandySF]

28. Yes

[Silent3]

31. Of course. Further, not even all Israelis are to blame for Israel's policies.

If Netanyahu weren't using the continued war to cling to power, I think most Israelis are ready to throw him out and change at least some of those policies.

[sheshe2]

34. Yes.

[HandmaidsTaleUntold]

37. It's A Stupid Generalization

Bibi and the right wing lunatic extremists are to blame. The reside in Israel. They probably have significant support here too.

[Joinfortmill]

40. Yes

[Martin Eden]

47. ANY broad-brush casting of BLAME on the basis of race, creed, religion is WRONG

Some Jews and organizations in the US fully support what Netanyahu is doing, while others do not.

To blame them all is just plain stupid.

[SocialDemocrat61]

48. Yes

Jews in America have no influence over the policies of the Israeli government. Just as Russians in America have no influence over policies of the Russian government.

[Oopsie Daisy]

50. Yes.

And blaming colleges, universities, and Joe Biden is just plain dumb. Rebels without a clue.

[betsuni]

51. Yes.

[no_hypocrisy]

52. Yes, because "American Jews" are NOT a monolith.

Last edited Tue May 7, 2024, 08:23 AM - Edit history (1)

IOW, we're not all the same.

There's a saying, "Where there are two Jews, there are three opinions". We debate, debate, debate. It's in our tradition of interpreting the Pentateuch, the Torah, and the Talmud.

To brand those Jews who are stricken with doubt about Gaza, Netanyahu, even Israel wanting to expand its borders, with the rabid RW Israeli policies, is patently unfair and it's attacking Jews for the sake of attacking Jews. The antisemites don't need an excuse to attack Jews. They'll find a convenient reason.

[catrose]

53. Yes

[ecstatic]

54. Yes, of course! nt

[ismnotwasm]

56. Yes

[Chakaconcarne]

57. Can we revisit the topic again tomorrow?

and next week sometime?

More threads needed here to keep the division alive and well.

[LexVegas]

65. 100%, no question. nt

[peggysue2]

66. Yes!

Nothing else to say.

[liberalhistorian]

68. Absolutely and

without any question at all! Those responsible for Israeli policies (which I very strongly disagree with) are Israeli leaders and politicians, which has nothing whatsoever to do with American Jews. It is blatantly antisemitic and bigoted to blame and persecute them for it.