Hamas's Offer to Hand Over 33 Hostages Includes Some Who Are Dead

[RandySF]

Hamas informed negotiators on Monday that not all of the 33 hostages who would be freed in the first phase of a possible cease-fire deal with Israel are still living and that the remains of those who have died would be among the initial releases, according to two people familiar with the talks.

The disclosure came as part of Hamas’s counteroffer to Israel’s latest proposal, which envisions a first-phase, six-week cease-fire in exchange for the return of some of the hostages taken during the Oct. 7 terrorist attacks. It was not clear whether Hamas revealed how many of the 33 are still alive and how many are dead.

The first group of hostages meant to be freed in the initial phase of the proposed agreement is supposed to include women, older men and the sick and wounded who are among the more than 100 believed still to be held captive. The Israelis initially wanted 40 to be released in the first phase but came to understand that Hamas did not hold that many who fit the criteria. Israeli and American officials have long assumed that some of the hostages may be dead.

The news that the first group of hostages to be released would include the remains of some taken seven months ago will surely upset families who have been pressing the Israeli government to do more to free their loved ones. The fate of the hostages has become a major issue with the Israeli public as thousands of demonstrators have poured into the streets to pressure Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government to make a deal. Protesters blocked major roads in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv late Monday after Hamas’s counteroffer.




https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/07/us/politics/israel-hamas-hostages-dead.html

[PCIntern]

1. Of course they killed many...likely horribly

but where’s the outcry? WHERE???

People have ZERO CONCEPT of exactly what horrors the Israelis are dealing with. It’s like one of those movies about a psycho killer on cable you don’t wanna watch… Except there are thousands of them.

[Voltaire2]

3. They being the IDF?

It is very likely that many if not all of the hostage deaths were caused by the IDF.

[Beastly Boy]

5. Oh please!

Is deflection the only response you can muster when sadistic rapists and murderers start peddling corpses?

I have no words.

[Voltaire2]

8. Actually you had 22 words.

And regardless of your lack or non lack of words, it is quite likely that most if not all of the hostage deaths were a result of the IDF bombardment of Gaza.

[Beastly Boy]

13. Let me make it pellucidly clear:

I have no words that would comply with DU's terms of service.

Just keep digging deeper.

[krawhitham]

42. Gaza has been leveled by the IDF, if you think all hostages survived all that you're delusional

[Beastly Boy]

43. I think that taking hostages makes the hostage takers accountable for anything

that happens to them.

International criminal law thinks so too. Both of us must be equally delusional.

[krawhitham]

65. I think that's convenient excuse to justify genocide

The International Court of Justice (ICJ) thinks so too, look it up

[Beastly Boy]

68. I was referring to ICC, not ICJ. But I am aware of what ICJ thinks too.

And I don't think they think what you think. Look it up.

[SoFlaBro]

60. Shitstain Hamas, like they do with babies, places hostages at fucking likely target sites. Hamas wants babies bombed.

[Ontheboundry]

14. Regardless of how they died

It's on Hamas your deflection is pretty nauseating tbh

[RandySF]

21. It's all on Hamas, the hostage takers.

[krawhitham]

66. Hamas is not Palestinians

But genocide is genocide

[sarisataka]

67. Does Hamas bear any responsibility for the hostages and their well-being?

A simple yes or no will do.

[yagotme]

28. Basically wrong:

it is quite likely that most if not all of the hostage deaths were a result of the IDF bombardment of Gaza.

It is BECAUSE Hamas took these hostages, that these people are dead. No Oct 7 attack, no hostages, no death. Israelis didn't kill those people on Oct 7, it was Palestinians, masquerading under the banner of Hamas, who wishes Israel to be wiped off the map.

[ripcord]

45. They wouldn't have been in Gaza if the terrorists hadn't kidnapped them

[Coventina]

51. And a woman alone at night deserves to be raped, am I right?!?!?!

[LeftInTX]

59. Hamas has murdered hostages and also one died because of lack of medical care.

Herzog says German-Israeli Shani Louk found beheaded after being taken to Gaza
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1698670724-herzog-says-german-israeli-shani-louk-found-beheaded-in-gaza
Here is an image of Shani: https://www.thewrap.com/associated-press-defends-shani-louk-image/

Hamas Publishes Video of 86-year-old Israeli Hostage, Raising Concerns About His Life
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-17/ty-article/hamas-publishes-video-of-86-year-old-israeli-hostage-raising-concerns-about-his-life/0000018b-de30-dffa-adef-fe30c8880000
Aryeh Zalmanovich, 85, died from lack of medical care. Hamas posted videos of him having death rales. Hamas then lied said he died because Israel shelling gave him a heart attack.
https://www.newsweek.com/who-arye-zalmanovich-hamas-video-confirms-israeli-hostages-death-1844943


I also saw a deleted video of this young woman. Her foot was partially sliced off. The bizarre image showed her foot place along her lower leg. They then showed a video of her lifeless body. It appeared that she died of a gunshot wound. There was no sign that bombing trauma had killed her. Hamas murdered her and then they blamed on the IDF.
IDF says Noa Marciano was murdered by Hamas inside Shifa Hospital, not killed by Israeli airstrike
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-noa-marciano-was-murdered-by-hamas-in-shifa-not-killed-by-israeli-airstrike/

Hamas has been caught in lies. Do you actually believe them?
Of course Hamas is gonna blame airstrikes on every hostage death.

[mcar]

16. And why were the hostages in Gaza?

You know the answer to that, don't you?

[RandySF]

20. Maybe by Hamas who also killed 1,200 Israelis on Oct. 7.

[brooklynite]

29. So Hamas terrorists survived to carry out the terms of the cease-fire...

....but couldn't protect their hostages. And it's all Israel's fault. Good to know.

[Coventina]

50. Wow. Way to blame the victims.

Un-fucking-believable.

[Johnny2X2X]

6. I have seen anything but a lack of outrage about dead hostages here

Hamas is 100% responsible for klilling 1200 civilians and taking 200+ hostages. They're 100% responsible for the hostages dying as captives too. And they are the ones who started this war, so they bare a share of the responsibility for Palestinian civilian deaths too.

But all of this doesn't absolve Israel of being responsible too. And that's what people are protesting about, that this war is less about defense now and more about revenge and punishment. Bombing military targets is one thing, cutting off aid routes is another and it's a war crime that Israel must answer for. Israel took this too far, I've defended their actions up to a point, but it's really hard to defend cutting off food and medicne to hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. We are witnessing a civilian population caught between a brutal regime in Hamas who really don't care about their lives, and a regional super power seemingly intent on making them suffer because they're in the throws of rage about a truly heinous terror attack 7 months ago.

Someone has to take a step back.

[Voltaire2]

9. Was Hamas responsible for the escaped hostages

shot by the IDF?

[Johnny2X2X]

11. 100%, yes they were

Those people wouldn't have been in a war zone without Hamas kidnapping them. Hamas started this war.

[Voltaire2]

12. So the IDF, who's soldiers fired the bullets that

killed these people, had zero responsibility for killing them. That’s an interesting theory. I hope it makes you feel better about the situation.

[Beastly Boy]

15. Your question was about Hamas being responsible.

You got the answer that is 100% accurate and it didn't satisfy you.

Time to deflect.

[Cha]

62. Yeah "Deflect Deny Deflect Deny Defelct"

[LeftInTX]

49. Eight US army rangers died during a botched hostage rescue operation in 1980.

You know darn well militaries make mistakes. The escaped Israeli hostages were not intentionally killed by IDF.

I'm sure Iran thought it was funny when the US helicopter crashed. Sure there was much criticism over the botched operation and the Carter admin was portrayed as incompetent.

However, I don't remember much "anti-war snark" in the US saying:
"Hey we shouldn't have tried to rescue the hostages, because our military shouldn't have been there"

Should the US not have attempted to rescue the hostages that were held in the US embassy?

[RandySF]

22. They should have never been taken hostage in the first place.

[sarisataka]

23. Good question,

Was Hamas responsible for the escaped hostages?

[ripcord]

46. The US never took a step back in WW2

The firebombing of Dresden, the firebombing of Toyko, Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed over 250,000. The US and its allies were going to root out the evil no matter what the civilian cost.

[Cha]

61. Yeah, like you said.. "Zero Cooncept" while".

Protecting Hamas.. they wouldn't do such a thing as kill their own hostages.

Link to tweet

[betsuni]

2. K&R

[Happy Hoosier]

4. Surprise!!!

When Hamas agrees to something, there's always a gotcha!

[dembotoz]

7. so you bomb the snot out of the country and are shocked....shocked i say when folks you like die

you do understand what bombs do???????

[Voltaire2]

10. Half the time they do, and then claim

that Hamas is responsible anyway, the other half they deny it is even remotely possible and insist instead that Hamas is directly killing their hostages.

[Beastly Boy]

18. There is no both-sideism when hostages die.

Directly or indirectly, hostage takers are to blame. Period. This is not debatable.

[Beastly Boy]

17. Hostages. Hostages die.

When hostages die, hostage takers are to blame. Period. No excuses.

[dembotoz]

33. perhaps israel should have been more careful or perhaps it was acceptable colateral damage

[Beastly Boy]

37. Perhaps hamas should have been more careful and not taken any hostages.

Because once they did, they were left with no excuses or perhapses to whitewash their crimes.

[dembotoz]

57. how many dead to satisfy the lust for revenge...all of them?????????????????????????

[Beastly Boy]

63. Don't look here, look there!

How many times do you think you can do that before people stop taking you seriously?

[Mountainguy]

24. Why were the hostages in a war zone?

Were they on a tour?

[dembotoz]

32. perhaps they were safe until they got bombed

[sarisataka]

34. Should we assign some blame

To the deceased hostages who chose to flee the noble freedom fighters who were protecting them?

[dembotoz]

35. or perhaps the kids in gaza who now starve to death....

no

[sarisataka]

36. Simple yes/no question-

Does Hamas bear any responsibility for the hostages?

[dembotoz]

53. simple question how many dead kids is enough for you

[sarisataka]

54. None.

Care to answer my question-

Does Hamas bear any responsibility for the hostages?

[sarisataka]

58. I did the courtesy of answering your question

can you not do the same?

I can't make it simpler than yes Hamas is responsible for taking hostages or no they are not

[Mountainguy]

40. Maybe Hamas should give them the food

They steal and also stop bombing border crossings where aid comes through.

[dembotoz]

52. perhaps israel could let the food thru

[Mountainguy]

55. They do

At the rate of hundreds of trucks a day, and increasing.

[RandySF]

41. No hostage is safe while in captivity

Ask the women who were held and raped Oct. 7.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

47. "Safe"

Interesting definition of safe. I’d think safe would be what they were before Hamas kidnapped them.
But I don’t make excuses for terrorists.

[JustAnotherGen]

48. At least 10 weren't in December 2023

At least 10 freed hostages were sexually abused in Hamas captivity, doctor says
https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-least-10-freed-hostages-were-sexually-abused-by-hamas-in-captivity-doctor-says/

In a report detailing allegations of severe and widespread sexual abuse by Hamas terrorists during their October 7 onslaught and later against hostages, a doctor who treated some of the 110 hostages released from captivity told the AP that at least 10 men and women among those freed were sexually assaulted or abused.

He did not provide further details, and spoke on condition of anonymity to protect the hostages’ identities.

The doctor’s comments corroborated similar accounts shared at a meeting on Tuesday. The meeting, held between the Israeli war cabinet and a group comprising recently freed hostages and family members of those still held in Gaza, featured firsthand testimonies from some of the released captives. These individuals detailed their experiences of sexual abuse during their captivity, participants said.

And don't tell me it's propaganda or they made it up. The video recorded themselves engaging in this atrocity on October 7th. You do it once, you do it twice. Rapers don't stop.

[Happy Hoosier]

56. Have you read what Hamas was doing to hostages they have releases?

Seriously.... rethink that position.... it's nuts.

"Perhaps they were safe...." are you fucking kidding me? Ya know how they would really be safe? Not being fucking hoistages.

[JustAnotherGen]

27. They shouldn't have been there in the first place

If Hamas hadn't kidnapped them -

They wouldn't be in the line of fire and this war wouldn't be going on. Hamas is responsible.

No one was holding a gun to Hamas head and demanding they commit an act of terror that involved kidnapping, rape, murder, etc. etc.


They didn't HAVE to be there and engage in that activity on October 7th.

In all of this time - they could have released those they kidnapped and stopped all of this bullshit war -

But they pretend like they have no choice.

They aren't even following their own laws from their self-governing body . . .

No Jewish Israelis are allow in Gaza under ANY circumstances. So not only did they commit an act of abominable terror - they also broke their own laws by bringing Jewish people into Gaza.

[TheKentuckian]

69. Murdering, mutilating, raping, and hostage taking earns aggressive action to quell such a threat.

Those hostages should not have ever been taken to be in harm's way at all.

Tell this bullshit walking.

[LexVegas]

19. Antisemitism and Hamas sympathy has reached alarming levels in many places. nt

[Mountainguy]

25. 9-11 wouldnt have happened

If America hadn't put those buildings there!

[JustAnotherGen]

30. Agreed

Last edited Tue May 7, 2024, 02:56 PM - Edit history (1)

Been alarmed for a few years . . . and as BTA has said often in the Jewish Group -

"People like weak Jews". Corrected to his statement which comes from the title of a book: "People Love Dead Jews"

I would think that there would be a greater empathy chip for these hostages in America based on that observation alone.

[BannonsLiver]

39. It's interesting to watch the evolution here since 10/7

I think most if not all we’re on board with the view that Hamas was evil but now you see folks coming around to at first excuse, and then explain away and now actually openly defend Hamas. It’s quite pathetic.

[sarisataka]

44. Once I found what I believe was the very first thread about the October 7 attack

the first reply was to question the source and if it was propaganda. Within 15 minutes we had posters starting the 'resistance is justified' line.

[JustAnotherGen]

26. Or - they could just hand over them all

So that this can all go away for the Palestinian people.

[RandySF]

31. Nope

Somehow Israel is obliged to hand over 30 Palestinian prisoners for every single hostage living or dead.

[JustAnotherGen]

38. Seems a wee bit

Unfair - eh?