Both anti-Hamas and anti-Netanyahu, Thomas Friedman argues for a two-state solution.

[pnwmom]

No paywall.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/opinion/campus-protests-gaza.html?unlocked_article_code=1.qk0.an9X.qpomb1THHBaY&smid=url-share

Hey, Friedman, but what about all the violence that Israeli settlers perpetrated against Palestinians and how Bibi Netanyahu deliberately built up Hamas and undermined the Palestinian Authority, which embraced Oslo?

Answer: That violence and those Netanyahu actions are awful and harmful to a two-state solution as well. That is why I am intensely both anti-Hamas and anti-Netanyahu. And if you oppose just one and not also the other, you should reflect a little more on what you are shouting at your protest or your anti-protest. Because no one has done more to harm the prospects of a two-state solution than the codependent Hamas and Netanyahu factions.

Hamas is not against the post-1967 occupation. It is against the existence of a Jewish state and believes there should be an Islamic state between the river and the sea. When protests on college campuses ignore that, they are part of the problem. Just as much as Israel supporters who ignore the fact that the far-right members in Netanyahu’s own coalition government are for a Jewish state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. How do I know? Because Netanyahu wrote it into the coalition agreement between himself and his far-right partners.

The third reason that these protests have become part of the problem is that they ignore the view of many Palestinians in Gaza who detest Hamas’s autocracy. These Palestinians are enraged by precisely what these student demonstrations ignore: Hamas launched this war without permission from the Gazan population and without preparation for Gazans to protect themselves when Hamas knew that a brutal Israeli response would follow. In fact, a Hamas official said at the start of the war that its tunnels were for only its fighters, not civilians.

[LeftInTX]

1. Well worth the read. I also read the linked article:

The silent anger of Gazans towards Hamas

Last summer in Gaza was an unforgettable one. After 17 years under Hamas control, and 17 years of Israel blockading the Strip, the mood was slightly upbeat. Thanks to Qatar’s financial support and Israel loosening its permit system for Gazans to work in Israel, the economy was improving gradually. My friends and family were out almost every night, at weddings, restaurants, concerts and family picnics on the Mediterranean.

The silent majority – the many Palestinians in Gaza who support neither Hamas nor its rival Fatah, and who gritted their teeth through the blockade – felt a sense of hope that had long been missing. In years past, many in Gaza felt that Hamas only helped its own, an observation rarely made in public. Historically, the group has not taken criticism well. But last summer, the economy was improving for everyone, and the silent majority could see a life under its rule.

Now, with much of Gaza in ruins, last summer feels like a distant memory. Those who were warming up to Hamas are turning against them due to Israel’s nearly six-month-long war. They have lost their homes and their loved ones, and they are living a life of constant terror and dehumanisation.

Yet just as Gazans are becoming loudly critical of Hamas, the group appears to be gaining momentum like never before among Palestinians in the West Bank and those in exile – that is, those who never lived under its rule. After years of defanging Hamas’s political opponents, Israel is ramping up Gaza’s destruction and acting with unprecedented aggression in the West Bank. So long as it continues, it won’t matter that Hamas is losing its foothold in Gaza: for the rest of Palestine, Israel’s actions are only bringing the group even more popularity.

https://www.thenationalnews.com/opinion/comment/2024/04/03/palestine-hamas-gaza-fatah-israel-west-bank/

[Silent3]

2. I don't doubt many Palestinians are enraged at Hamas, but how many hate Israel even more?

I really want Israelis and Palestinians to be able to live side by side in peace, but I don't know how that can ever be a stable situation while a significant portion of the Palestinian population can't be satisfied with trying to make good lives for themselves in Gaza, but want Israel wiped off the map, same as Hamas.

And of course, the hard-to-purge hatred goes the other direction too.

Further, are the Palestinians capable, given a state of their own, of creating a government that isn't keeping them in misery and poverty through shear corruption, even if they set aside the desire to destroy Israel?

[pnwmom]

3. The more Gazans Netanyahu kills, the more hatred they'll feel toward Israel.

More than 30,000 have already died -- as opposed to 1400 Israelis on Oct. 7.
When is enough, enough?

[Silent3]

4. When Netanyahu stops worring about losing power...

...and having to answer for his crimes, or the coalition propping Netanyahu up stops waiting for the war to end, which Netanyahu won't end, and kicks Netanyahu out.

[pnwmom]

5. In the meantime, the US can stop sending him offensive weapons. nt

[Silent3]

6. Finally it looks like Biden is ready to move that way

I'm a bit angry he hasn't done it earlier, but then again, before I get too angry I try to remember that Biden has always seemed like a decent man, and maybe has good reasons for abiding by Israel longer than I've been comfortable with.

[SunSeeker]

14. When? I imagine when the last remaining Hamas battalion is eliminated in Rafah.

Unfortunately, as usual, this Hamas battalion is hiding behind women and children in Rafah, while continuing to shoot rockets. That's why about 20,000 of the 30,000 dead are civilians while only about 10,000 of the 30,000 dead are Hamas fighters.

[wnylib]

16. +10,000

[TomDaisy]

9. after this genocide, Israel should never expect anything but hatred from Palestinians

that's just logic

[SunSeeker]

15. It's not a genocide. And if Jews can be civil with Germans, Palestinians can certainly be civil with Israelis.

Just like the Japanese can be civil with Americans, indeed they are quite fond of Americans, despite us dropping nuclear bombs on them.

[betsuni]

18. Not genocide.

[Old Crank]

12. I would bet that most Palastinians

Would be fine living in peace next door to Israel.
But it is hsrd to win people over by bulldozing a country with overwhelming force.
As for governing themselves we cannot know since Israel has been hell bent on keeping terrorists alive and well for many years. They have also fenced off vast tracts of property and turned a blind eye towards Jewish terrorists in the West Bank.

[wnylib]

19. Looks line you are stating the same issues as the OP article, only from just one side.

A two state solution is the only one capable of producing stability in the region, but to achieve a two state solution, both Israeli and Palestinian leaders need to face accountability for their actions and take responsibility for recognizing each other.

[B.See]

7. Plus 1000! EXACTLY the same sht I'd said from the get.

Netanyahu and Hamas are USING their own people. Get rid of those fkrs. Create states for both Palestine and Israel. Go into business together. Build and sell beachfront condos at10.3 Mil apiece. Live well and give peace a chance.

(Trite I know. Possibly even naive. But is it so incomprehensible?)

[dchill]

10. Just don't let Jared Kushner get in on the condo deal!

[B.See]

11. Not a bit of it. Besides

Jared has already made clear his plan for a 'condo deal' would involve the obliteration of an entire PEOPLE.

Fk him.

[dchill]

13. Indeed. A small price for them to pay.

[B.See]

17. ???

Sorry... I don't follow. What ru saying?

[dchill]

20. It is sarcasm.

[B.See]

21. oh... okay.

[TeamProg]

8. knr