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DavidDvorkin

(20,589 posts)
Wed May 15, 2024, 05:40 PM May 2024

Israeli minister attacks Netanyahu over Gaza future

Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant has voiced open frustration at the government’s failure to address the question of a post-war plan for Gaza.

In a rare public sign of divisions over the direction of the military campaign within Israel’s war cabinet, Mr Gallant urged Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to declare publicly that Israel has no plans to take over civilian and military rule in Gaza.


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cglxlj4m3v0o
8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Think. Again.

(22,456 posts)
1. I'm always stunned when I hear about...
Wed May 15, 2024, 06:18 PM
May 2024

...everyone except the Palestinians are discussing what should happen to Gaza after the demolition is complete.

Celerity

(54,409 posts)
2. Mr Gallant said the failure to set out a plan was leading Israel towards a "dangerous course" involving Israeli military
Wed May 15, 2024, 06:29 PM
May 2024
and civilian rule over Gaza.

He described that prospect as “a negative and dangerous option for the State of Israel strategically, militarily, and from a security standpoint.” “I must reiterate: I will not agree to the establishment of Israeli military rule in Gaza. Israel must not establish civilian rule in Gaza.” “I call on Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to make a decision and declare that Israel will not establish civilian control over the Gaza strip, that Israel will not establish military governance in the Gaza strip, and that a governing alternative to Hamas in the Gaza strip will be raised immediately.”

Israeli press reports have recently included suggestions that military leaders have grave misgivings about the lack of a viable plan for Gaza after the war ends. Mr Gallant’s comments this evening bring those misgivings out into the open in a politically explosive way. On a visit to Ukraine on Wednesday, US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken said that Israel needed to produce a clear plan for Gaza's future. "We can't have anarchy and a vacuum that's likely to be filled by chaos," Mr Blinken said.


Celerity

(54,409 posts)
4. I was not at all disputing what you said. I was just giving further information due to the rather spartan OP text amount
Wed May 15, 2024, 06:40 PM
May 2024
 

Think. Again.

(22,456 posts)
5. Thanks. It just really does bother when people seem to assume...
Wed May 15, 2024, 06:45 PM
May 2024

...that the goal is be rid of a soveriegn Palestine, and then keep denying that's the goal.

Celerity

(54,409 posts)
6. I have been saying for years that taking over Gaza (and eventually the West Bank) and clearing out all or most
Wed May 15, 2024, 07:12 PM
May 2024

of the Palestinians has been the RW Israeli goal for around 100 years. Eretz Israel, courtesy of Ze'ev Jabotinsky and his Revisionist Zionism, which is now the domain of Netanyahu and his even more radical RW base of supporters.


The Neglected History of the State of Israel

The Revisionist faction of Zionism that ended up triumphing adhered to literal fascist doctrines and traditions.

https://prospect.org/world/2024-02-21-neglected-history-state-of-israel/

I begin with full-throated praise: Isaac Chotiner of The New Yorker is the greatest interviewer alive. He asks the most terrible people alive, or sometimes just conspicuously dodgy people, the bluntest questions imaginable. They evade; he follows up—ruthlessly. They’re reduced to puddles of incoherence. We get to peer inside the mystery of moral failure—an accomplishment few other writers can manage. Just as valuable are his straightforward informational interviews, especially these past months in which Chotiner has been methodically flushing out all-too-shrouded facts of the inhumanity on the ground in Israel and Palestine, from all sides. One of Chotiner’s best interviews ran this past November. A leader of the militant West Bank settlement movement told him that Jews have a sacred duty to occupy all the land between “the Euphrates in the east and the Nile in the southwest,” that nothing west of the Jordan River was ever “Arab place or property,” and that no Arabs, even citizens, should have civil rights in Israel. Stunning stuff, and extremely valuable to have on the record, especially given the settler movement’s close ties to Benjamin Netanyahu’s government.

I praise Chotiner, however, as a bridge to a separate point: Even the most learned and thoughtful observers of Israel and Palestine miss a basic historical foundation of the crisis. Return to that November interview. Chotiner asked, “So rights are not some sort of universal thing that every person has. They’re something that you can win or lose.” The settler answered, “That’s right.” He followed up: “When you see Palestinian children dying, what’s your emotional reaction as a human being?” She replied: “I go by a very basic human law of nature. My children are prior to the children of the enemy, period. They are first. My children are first.” Chotiner responded with incredulity: “We are talking about children. I don’t know if the law of nature is what we need to be looking at here.” The settler, unfazed, repeated herself: “I say my children are first.” It’s a remarkable thing to hear such horrifying sentiments, unadorned. But it is also remarkable how surprised we are by them. I’ve been reading an outstanding 2005 study, The Jewish Radical Right: Revisionist Zionism and Its Ideological Legacy, by historian Eran Kaplan. You should too. One of the things you’ll learn: That settler is repeating almost word for word the doctrines of one of Zionism’s original political traditions—the faction that ended up winning, and whose foundations were literally fascist.

I USE THE WORD “FASCIST” in the literal sense. Do not flinch from it. The founders of Revisionist Zionism certainly didn’t. Respect them enough to take them at their word. In 1928, a prominent Revisionist named Abba Ahimeir published a series of articles entitled “From the Diary of a Fascist.” They refer to the founder of their movement, Ze’ev Jabotinsky (his adopted first name is Hebrew for “wolf”), as “il duce.” In 1935, his comrade Hen Merhavia wrote that Revisionists were doing what Mussolini did: “establish a nucleus of an exemplary life of morality and purity. Like us, the Italian fascists look back to their historical heritage. We seek to return to the kingdom of the House of David; they want to return to the glory of the Roman Empire.” They even opened a maritime academy in Italy, under Mussolini’s sponsorship, for the navy they hoped to build in their new Israeli state. “[T]he views and the political and social inclinations of the Revisionists,” an Italian magazine reported, “are absolutely in accordance with the fascist doctrine … as our students they will bring the Italian and fascist culture to Palestine.”



Like all fascists, Revisionists believed the most exemplary lives were lived in violence, in pursuit of return to a racially pure arcadia. Their rivals, the Labor Zionists, who beat out the Revisionists in the political battle to establish the Jewish state in their own image, hardly shrank from violence, of course. But they saw it as a necessary evil—and defensive. Revisionists believed in violence, offensive violence, as a positive good. “Now it is not enough to learn how to shoot,” Jabotinsky’s successor as Revisionist leader put it in 1945, five years after Jabotinsky’s death. “In the name of historical justice, in the name of life’s instinct, in the name of truth—we must shoot.” And like all fascisms, it expressed an overwhelming ethnic chauvinism. One of the kookiest things I learned from Kaplan’s book was that Jabotinsky believed “the Semitic sounds of Arabic were but a series of noises without distinction or character,” with which Hebrew had little in common. Hebrew was actually a Mediterranean language, Jabotinsky believed. Recovering the non-guttural sound of real Hebrew “would evoke in the nation’s youth the true national characteristics that had all but disappeared in the Diaspora.”

snip

Igel

(37,535 posts)
7. They were asked.
Wed May 15, 2024, 08:20 PM
May 2024

The less-militant branch said they weren't touching Gaza with a 10-foot insulated pole. Hamas killed Palestinians with impunity and self-righteousness a couple of decades ago, who wants deja vu all over again. It was hard for Ukrainian Putinistas in Kyiv to praise Putin in 2024.

Gazans don't dare answer. For them, it's "Victory or death!" Barring that, it's "Victory!" or death. Depending upon whether you support Hamas or don't--either way, death, given Israeli intransigence in celebrating all that Hamas is. It's hard for Ukrainians under Russian rule to fail to praise Putin in 2024.

Cha

(319,079 posts)
8. Good.. TY
Wed May 15, 2024, 08:25 PM
May 2024
In a rare public sign of divisions over the direction of the military campaign within Israel’s war cabinet, Mr Gallant urged Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to declare publicly that Israel has no plans to take over civilian and military rule in Gaza.

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