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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsICC just issued applications of arrest warrants for
top three Hamas leaders for October 7th and Israel's Prime Minister along with the Defense Secretary for war crimes in Gaza per CNN.
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Srkdqltr
(9,833 posts)
LeftInTX
(34,554 posts)Khan said the ICC is also seeking warrants for Israel’s Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, as well as two other top Hamas leaders — Mohammed Diab Ibrahim al-Masri, the leader of the Al Qassem Brigades and better known as Mohammed Deif, and Ismail Haniyeh, Hamas’ political leader.
Khan said the charges against Sinwar, Haniyeh and al-Masri include “extermination, murder, taking of hostages, rape and sexual assault in detention.”
“The world was shocked on the 7th of October when people were ripped from their bedrooms, from their homes, from the different kibbutzim in Israel,” Khan told Amanpour, adding that “people have suffered enormously.”
The charges against Netanyahu and Gallant include “causing extermination, causing starvation as a method of war, including the denial of humanitarian relief supplies, deliberately targeting civilians in conflict,” Khan told Amanpour.
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I think they should also seek charges for the Hamas guys for their continued actions against the hostages and their continued illegal arms procurement. But I'm glad he's going after them. Haniyeh will be the easiest to apprehend. I think it will be interesting. The guys in Gaza will stay in their tunnels.
Srkdqltr
(9,833 posts)
Goddessartist
(2,176 posts)Thank you Uncle Joe!
FakeNoose
(41,952 posts)
LeftInTX
(34,554 posts)Despite his name, Karim Khan is British. (So, he's not aligned with Iran or Pakistan etc)
Lonestarblue
(13,524 posts)
malaise
(296,886 posts)Rec
speak easy
(12,598 posts)The ICC prosecutor is making application to the court to issue these warrants. Due process. There will be a hearing.
Uncle Joe
(65,276 posts)speak easy
(12,598 posts)but there is a judicial process. We convene a grand jury.
Uncle Joe
(65,276 posts)that it would be under a "strong chance of conviction" status vs a "strong chance of indictment."
speak easy
(12,598 posts)Open and shut.
GB_RN
(3,573 posts)Such poor timing! They spoiled Nutty-yoohoo’s party plans celebrating the death of the Iranian president. 😂
Shhh. Do you hear that? It’s really faint, but I can hear the screams of anger and indignation and gnashing of teeth, from both Israel and Gaza…
Passages
(4,273 posts)Today I am filing applications for warrants of arrest before Pre-Trial Chamber I of the International Criminal Court in the Situation in the State of Palestine.
Yahya Sinwar, Mohammed Diab Ibrahim Al-Masri (Deif), Ismail Haniyeh
On the basis of evidence collected and examined by my Office, I have reasonable grounds to believe that Yahya SINWAR (Head of the Islamic Resistance Movement (“Hamas”) in the Gaza Strip), Mohammed Diab Ibrahim AL-MASRI, more commonly known as DEIF (Commander-in-Chief of the military wing of Hamas, known as the Al-Qassam Brigades), and Ismail HANIYEH (Head of Hamas Political Bureau) bear criminal responsibility for the following war crimes and crimes against humanity committed on the territory of Israel and the State of Palestine (in the Gaza strip) from at least 7 October 2023:
Extermination as a crime against humanity, contrary to article 7(1)(b) of the Rome Statute;
Murder as a crime against humanity, contrary to article 7(1)(a), and as a war crime, contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i);
Taking hostages as a war crime, contrary to article 8(2)(c)(iii);
Rape and other acts of sexual violence as crimes against humanity, contrary to article 7(1)(g), and also as war crimes pursuant to article 8(2)(e)(vi) in the context of captivity;
Torture as a crime against humanity, contrary to article 7(1)(f), and also as a war crime, contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i), in the context of captivity;
Other inhumane acts as a crime against humanity, contrary to article 7(l)(k), in the context of captivity;
Cruel treatment as a war crime contrary to article 8(2)(c)(i), in the context of captivity; and
Outrages upon personal dignity as a war crime, contrary to article 8(2)(c)(ii), in the context of captivity.
in full: https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/statement-icc-prosecutor-karim-aa-khan-kc-applications-arrest-warrants-situation-state
3Hotdogs
(15,438 posts)I doubt they would surrender.
ananda
(35,291 posts)What it will come to, I don't know.
But the war crimes need to stop.
cstanleytech
(28,515 posts)
Joinfortmill
(21,360 posts)
moonshinegnomie
(4,030 posts)once the warrants are issue dthey need to issue an interpool red notice to arrest them
Ping Tung
(4,370 posts)Any ICC country can arrest and detain either or both of them. The Brits arrested Pinochet and held him from 1998 to 2000. He only escaped deportation to Spain for trial because the Brits allowed him to go back to Chile because he was ill., A number of other countries issued warrants for his arrest.
He was facing trial in Chile for a number of crimes but never went to trial. He died in 2006.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/amr220032008en.pdf
sarisataka
(22,713 posts)will they attempt to enforce any of the warrants against Hamas members? Will anyone care if they don't?
Hamas has little/no ability to starve/exterminate Israelis at this point.
sarisataka
(22,713 posts)
enid602
(9,722 posts)The State of Palestine will not pursue/turn over the people charged. Nor will Israel. But by bringing forth these charges, the ICC highlights the risk of starvation and extermination in Gaza.
sarisataka
(22,713 posts)Does Palestine have an obligation to live up to its commitments?
Or do we expect selective enforcement?
ETA> is not the ICC also highlighting the crimes against Israeli civilians on October 7 and ongoing against the hostages? Or are the warrants sought against Hamas leadership just a fig leaf to give an illusion of justice?
enid602
(9,722 posts)I did not know that Israel is not a signatory.
These ICC war crime charges rarely if ever result in imprisonment, but they do serve to highlight and protest the crimes being charged. It appears that you feel the Israel is being singled out. I, on the other hand feel that Palestinians are the victims.
sarisataka
(22,713 posts)many comments about the potential warrants against Israeli leaders (which I have not questioned) but very few about the ones against Hamas leaders. It appears there is appetite to enforce one set of warrants but not the other.
I do see the Palestinian people as victims of many manipulators. They have been expendable pawns for decades.
I also see the Israeli people as victims of terrorists. Their crime was being Jewish.
One set of victims is being forgotten on the greater stage. Unfortunately, it is unsurprising.
I believe my biggest issue is that it is pointless. The warrants cannot be enforced against Netanyahu and the other Israeli leaders. They won't be enforced against the Hamas leaders. All it does is cause the already extremist participants to do is dig their heels in deeper.
enid602
(9,722 posts)So, I guess the Israelis will just have to choose to continue with ‘starvation/extermination.’ They really have no choice.
sarisataka
(22,713 posts)or if that is your opinion please make it clear.
enid602
(9,722 posts)I feel the Israeli Government feels it has no choice. And that it should face the consequences for its actions.
Xolodno
(7,360 posts)....Hamas is not. And most of their leadership kicks back in luxury in a non signatory state.
Would the PA enforce those warrants on them? I believe they would if they could get them, their is no love between the PA and Hamas. The PA gave them a chance to slowly enter the fold as a political party, Hamas turned around and bit them in the ass by killing their security forces and taking Gaza. Anyone suspected of being a PA supporter in Gaza was called an Israeli supporter which often resulted in a long and painful death.
Of course, the PA may be inclined to "deal with them" on their own if they captured them.
MutantAndProud
(855 posts)Thoughts?
I’m aware he is Zionist (the definition of Zionism has room for interpretation) but you either acknowledge the older intel about the Net. Israeli Gov funding of Hamas as a foil and pair it with the likelihood of violations after 10/7 which may warrant prosecution or you think they should be free to pound them into dust indiscriminately and keep expanding settlements instead of focusing on a targeted takeout of the leadership which has been ignored in Qatar because it’s been interpreted as predestined by Christian elements here and in the UK that they should be allowed to do this.
Why push back on the ICC process on this?
Something is not adding up to me.
Uncle Joe
(65,276 posts)President Biden was born less than a year after Pearl Harbor and grew up heavily exposed to the atrocities that the Jewish People endured during the Holocaust by the American media at the hands of the Nazi's.
Less so by too many indifferent Western Nations including the U.S. that turned fleeing Jews from Europe away so he's particularly sensitive when they're attacked and perhaps with a twinge of sub-conscious collective guilt.
He grew up during the Red Scare and McCarthyism of the 1950s when our society in general viewed the world in very black and white terms, and they just weren't exposed to much mass contrary information.
If you have a family member in trouble for whatever reason, your first instinct is to defensively protect them whether right or wrong, up until a point, and that can/will be different for any given situation.
Having said all that, I believe President Biden loves Israel, but is or is becoming acutely aware that Netanyahu is no friend to democracy in the United States much less Israel.
MutantAndProud
(855 posts)There was a huge lapse during WW2 in US policy. Towards survivors of the Holocaust as well. They did nothing to stop a lavender scare targeting the LGBTQ population in service to the government at the time.
Edit: also, prosecution is not likely to remove an elected official from power but it can certainly add pressure and attention.
BannonsLiver
(20,708 posts)
BannonsLiver
(20,708 posts)
Donkees
(33,734 posts)
AloeVera
(4,323 posts)And its merits - then it's not yet a done deal? Or is this just a pro-forma step, a rubber stamp?
Just want to know how long and hard I can celebrate.
LeftInTX
(34,554 posts)Nothing is gonna happen to him in Israel. Nothing will happen to him if he visits the US.
The ones who have been prosecuted have been pretty much lowlifes who are on the run. Many are from unstable countries where there are frequent coups. When the new government takes over, they turn the former guys over to the ICC.
No one in Gaza has plans to turn the Hamas guys over. Hamas is mad that warrants are being pursued on them.
There has been a warrant out on Putin for two years now. It hasn't stopped him.
AloeVera
(4,323 posts)I recall the ICC refused to issue warrants for GWB, Cheney and Rumsfeld. For me personally that was an outrage and a disappointment. This decision is a big deal.
If you're interested in the views of ordinary Gazans on the Hamas warrants, here is a good read. Their perspectives are quite different. The two sides are wide apart.
Netanyahu is mad too. Something about a moral stain on the ICC or the world, can't remember which. The man is a walking projection apparatus.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gazans-hamas-see-false-equivalence-icc-charges-2024-05-20/
Xolodno
(7,360 posts)He already knew what he was going to do.
I forgot that. Of course he did.
MarineCombatEngineer
(18,131 posts)Israel is not a signatory to the ICC, and neither is the US, Nuttyyahoo can still leave Israel and visit any non-member without any fear of arrest and, I suspect, that many ICC members won't enforce any warrant for his or HAMAs members.
AloeVera
(4,323 posts)I know that it's not likely the warrants will result in arrest. At least not for Netanyahu, but we shall see. Arrest is not the main thing on my mind though. An ICC action/warrant carries a lot of weight in the international community and lends credence to those who have opposed the war on the basis of the court's findings, i.e. war crimes etc. For me it is sufficient to know that the court agrees with our views and that surely this will have some effect on helping to stop the madness? Judging by the U.S response, I'm probably naive.
What I was asking was whether the application for a warrant could be stopped by the judges at the next step of the process? Because all this will be moot if those judges have the power to reject the application.
MarineCombatEngineer
(18,131 posts)Yes, the application will carry weight with the international community and I do hope it gives Israel and HAMAs pause to consider stopping this madness.
To answer your initial question, yes, the judges hearing the case can outright reject the application for the warrants.
Have a great evening AloeVera.
AloeVera
(4,323 posts)