When I got home from my 2nd tour in Vietnam, my younger brother was heavily involved

[MarineCombatEngineer]

Last edited Fri Aug 2, 2024, 07:48 PM - Edit history (1)

in the anti war protests, we got into a heated discussion about the morals of the war, he went on and on about US war crimes and at that point I'd had enough of his platitudes and asked him that as a Marine who had served twice in Vietnam if I was the enemy, he came back with the most profound answer I've ever heard, he said, and I quote, "No brother, you're not the enemy, you're a victim".

That threw me and I really had no answer to him, tragically, he was killed by a drunk driver in 1980 and I truly miss his wisdom to this day.

Just reflecting on my life here while I await for my agent to line up a load for me.

Everyone, enjoy the rest of the week.
Peace out
Dan.

[spooky3]

1. Sorry about your loss. Nt

[David__77]

2. Thank you for sharing.

Amazing how much that war impacted families across this countries with effects that continue today.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

3. The pain of his loss still reverberates in my soul,

but over time, I've come to accept it, I'll always miss him and his wisdom.

[ret5hd]

4. wow. so many ways that argument could...

go deeply deeply wrong…

and he had the wisdom and words to turn it into something truly positive.

[cilla4progress]

5. A beautiful story, thanks.

Your brother was on the right track, IMHO.

RIP.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

6. Looking back now, I can say, yes he was.

[pwb]

7. You should be proud of your brother and

your service. Millions of Vietnamese are free throughout the world because of us.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

8. I am very proud of my brother and my service, but especially my late brother

he was wise beyond his age.

[albacore]

36. Since I came home... almost 60 years ago now..

I've reflected a lot on my service in the Corps.
I'm proud of being a Marine..proud of my service...proud of my accomplishments.
But profoundly saddened by what my country did with that service.
Brutalizing and killing people for crass political ends.
I'm not alone...
`I believe that if we had and would keep our dirty, bloody, dollar soaked fingers out of the business of these (Third World) nations so full of depressed, exploited people, they will arrive at a solution of their own. And if unfortunately their revolution must be of the violent type because the `haves' refuse to share with the `have-nots' by any peaceful method, at least what they get will be their own, and not the American style, which they don’t want and above all don’t want crammed down their throats by Americans.' –
Gen. David Shoup, United States Marine Commandant Medal of Honor recipient. 2 Purple Hearts

I’m proud to say that Gen. Shoup was my Commandant during the first part of my time in the Corps.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

9. Thank you for sharing your poignant reflections with us (me). Insightful, memorable moments help us all.

Edit to add - My brother also returned from Vietnam to his family, including our Mom, involved in antiwar activities. We never really talked about it. When he returned he bought a MG sportster and was off to live life. And he is still living quite the life, despite the long term of effects of being drenched in Agent Orange while in Vietnam.

[LiberalFighter]

10. Sorry for you loss. Hope you have many good memories of him.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

11. Thank you and I do,

he was always the smarter one of the two of us.

[surfered]

12. Exactly. In Vietnam and Iraq, we believed what our leaders told us.

It’s not on us , it’s on them for lying.

2 tours! Above and beyond the call, but that’s what Marines do.

[malaise]

13. He was right

[LiberalFighter]

14. It could be he arrived at that assessment because you were in his life.

He had concerns about your life. And considered the war in Vietnam not worth the lives of Americans.

If you had not been in his life it may have been different with that view.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

17. You're correct, later on in life, he said that his views on the war

were because he had a brother directly impacted by the war.

[Joinfortmill]

15. You are both cool dudes. Peace.

[twodogsbarking]

16. Just the word "Vietnam" is overwhelming to many to this day. I think it can't be described to those

who didn't live through the time. Peace to you.

[SWBTATTReg]

20. You're right. My father was the same way about the Korean conflict. I never really got the 'story' from him

about his service in Korea, but I did get that he led soldiers out of behind enemy lines to safety. That alone, tells me a lot about my dad.

And Peace to you too.

[LiberalArkie]

27. My dad would never talk about his WWII Navy experience either.

[1WorldHope]

18. Very well put by your brother.

It is a lesson that I wish we could get across to all the young naive kids who run off for the fight. It's almost never, "the people's fight". It's the rich and powerful who start these wars. We need brave and strong young people to serve. But the service should not be killing other young people who have been forced into "serving". There are enough natural disasters and tragedies in the world. Young people could learn new skills, see the world, and help people instead of killing them. Humans must evolve beyond war. The planet needs us to undo the harm that has been done in the name of a few oligarch's greed.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

19. Very well said and by brother would've wholeheartedly agreed with you. nt.

[Klondike Kat]

35. Smedley Butler (Major General, USMC, Ret) would agree

He wrote "War is a Racket". It's a short read by a Marine who served with distinction.

[1WorldHope]

47. I will check it out! Thanks!

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

53. You mentioned the world 3 times in 1 post

And your user name contains it.
I believe my user name has the same meaning.

[1WorldHope]

54. 2 worlds and 1 planet is my count so far. 😜

I love this planet and we all live on it together. Why can't we cooperate for the good of all? Hence, my "hope" for "one world".
How about you? Tell me more about East not being East.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

56. My hope is for 1 world

Our planet = Our world!

There is only 1 world. Not an East and a West.

East is a relative term.
If you keep going east, you end up at a place you normally call west.
Your east is another person's west.
etc.
But I think it boils down to the idea that I believe in the hope of 1 world.
It's not real.

It comes from a Don Williams song.-- I Believe In You
I don't believe, completely, every line in the song: but a lot of it, I do.
I do believe in magic.

Lyrics
I don't believe in superstars
Organic food and foreign cars
I don't believe the price of gold
The certainty of growing old
That right is right and left is wrong
That north and south can't get along
That east is east and west is west
And being first is always best
But I believe in love
I believe in babies
I believe in mom and dad
And I believe in you
Well I don't believe that heaven waits
For only those who congregate
I like to think of God as love
He's down below, he's up above
He's watching people everywhere
He knows who does and doesn't care
And I'm an ordinary man
Sometimes I wonder who I am
But I believe in love
I believe in music
I believe in magic
And I believe in you
I know with all my certainty
What's going on with you and me
Is a good thing
It's true, I believe in you
I don't believe virginity
Is as common as it used to be
In working days and sleeping nights
That black is black and white is white
That Superman and Robin Hood
Are still alive in Hollywood
That gasoline's in short supply
The rising cost of getting by
But I believe in love
I believe in old folks
I believe in children
I believe in you
I believe in love
I believe in babies
I believe in mom and dad
And I believe in you

[1WorldHope]

58. Maybe there is that reality in another parallel universe where we choose differently.

A place where we confer with the whales and the fish people before we make any changes to their home. Instead in this universe we dump our trash in the oceans. I hope someday to visit the universe where we live in mutual respect and harmony.

[Voltaire2]

21. VVAW were one of the most level headed groups

working to end the war. They were awesome to work with. We weren’t anti-vet we were all against a bad war.

[DownriverDem]

22. Your brother

was right. I was a protester and me & my friends never blamed the soldiers. For those who forgot, most of those soldiers were drafted.

[KT2000]

23. I marched

in anti-war protests with my boyfriend who had just come back from Viet Nam. People assumed because I was anti-war in Viet Nam that I was against the people who fought. How could I be? My cousin and brother-in-law did two tours and I prayed for them to come home. My brother was going to be next.
I am sorry for your loss. No one can replace a brother.

[LiberalFighter]

24. Did he have any thoughts on other wars?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

25. He was killed in 1980, but he hated all wars because of the death and destruction they caused. nt

Last edited Fri Aug 2, 2024, 07:57 PM - Edit history (1)

[Duncanpup]

26. Thank you for sharing

[SarahD]

28. Sounds like a good brother.

I'm sorry he's no longer around.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

30. He was and I miss him every day. nt

[Srkdqltr]

29. After all this time .. so rightly said. Bless you and your brother.

The soldiers are victims as much as the civilians.

[Attilatheblond]

31. Seems likely you brother loved you very much

and maybe understood the ramifications of that war more clearly than you did at the time. So horrible to lose such a brother before his time.

[Americanme]

32. Sorry for your loss

Sounds like your brother loved you. Sorry for your loss, and thank you for your service.

[TBF]

33. My dad was on a destroyer - early Vietnam Days - when I was born

He was from a small town & actually loved the military. He liked the classes, travel, and loved being on the boats. Anyway, he liked the service and only returned home because my mother did not want the military life. I think there is a lot of that sort of thing - there are things people like about serving, but sometimes leaders put folks in ridiculous positions.

Safe Travels!

[MOMFUDSKI]

34. My husband was a survival trainer later

60s. When he got discharged he sat for long hours on a plane with another airman going home. That guy set him straight on the War. He never forgot that conversation.

[democrank]

37. I read your post several times.

It was profound….thank you.

[FakeNoose]

38. This is a heartbreaking story, and my thanks to you for sharing it

I think we boomers can share in this, it's a part of all of us.

Many older boomers among us either volunteered or got drafted to fight the war. Those who were a few years younger saw our brothers, cousins and former classmates going off to Southeast Asia to fight in a useless war that we had no business being involved in.

How could we sit by and let it happened to more innocent Americans? Of course we had to protest the war. The lives lost, the damage done, the immeasurable cost of that war - all have changed us forever.

[onetexan]

39. 2 words that sum up what was wrong with Vietnam: Henry Kissinger

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

42. Two more words: Robert McNamara.

[AKwannabe]

40. Thank you for two tours of duty

And your service to the US.

My father Vietnam vet Tet Offesive.

[sheshe2]

41. I am so sorry for your loss.

He sounds like he was a very good and kind man, as are you.

Thank you for your service, MCE.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

43. They also serve who only stand and wait. ...

... or protest.

Here's to your brother.

-- Bozo, Army '66-'68

edit to add: credit Winston Churchill for the quote

[Bayard]

44. Your brother lives on in you

[Warpy]

45. Your brother sounds like good people, I think his death was a loss to all of us

You did your best but that war was lost before it started. People who have next to nothing will fight liike hell to keep it.

We didn't learn. Regime change in Iraq gave us ISIS. Regime change in Afghanistan gave us the Taliban, Part Two.

I doubt they've managed to learn from those debacles, either.

And so it goes.

[beemerphill]

46. This is sad.

I served in Vietnam also. I volunteered for the Army and volunteered to go to Nam. I don't apologize for either. I believed what our government told us and wanted to serve my country. However, had we young men been told the truth, many of us might have made different choices. I believe that those of us who served were used to further politicians' careers. There was no need or valid reason for our country to send military force to that country. We followed orders and performed our jobs well, and our government took advantage of our ignorance of what was really happening. If there is an afterlife, and I believe there is, some of our leaders from that era have some serious questions to answer and serious accounting for their actions. Smedley Butler is right. War is a Racket.

[littlemissmartypants]

48. ❤️

[DENVERPOPS]

49. We also must never forget the

58,000+ that were the ultimate victims, all the POW's, All the MIA's, All the injured, and all the military maimed for life.......

Great Post MCE

Back then, I worked in a store, and McNamara and his son came in to shop. I told the store manager that I refused to wait on him and his son.

The Manager looked at me, and said: "I understand" and got someone else to wait on them......

Take Care MCE !!!!

[Demobrat]

50. I took part in protests.

I was protesting the draft, not the young men who were drafted. We were trying to save them.

[lostnfound]

51. Of course. I believe 95% of antiwar protestors believe the same thing

Every woman i ever knew who was out protesting saw all those young soldiers as victims. The guilty parties are the ideologues, corporatists and selfish politicians who send them in to ill-considered wars.

[70sEraVet]

52. I was curious about the oath I took back in summer of 1973. Looked it up.

"I, (state name of enlistee), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. (So help me God)."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces_oath_of_enlistment

I was not anywhere near Vietnam. I joined for 3 meals a day, and I joined the Navy, figuring that would keep me out of jungles.
Looking back on that oath, aside from the two World Wars, its hard to justify the 'conflicts' we've been in, as 'defending the Constitution'.

I am sorry about your brother. Sounds like a good, decent man, who was smart enough to see things that took the rest of us a lifetime to learn.

[Tom of Temecula]

55. K&R

Great post.

[tclambert]

57. Remember this: The dirty, smelly hippies were right.

[marble falls]

59. I enlisted purely so my dad couldn't shut me up at the dinner table over the war because I didn't know anything ...

... because I never served. And because there was some thought among SDS/Weathermen that we needed to infiltrate. Terrible reasons. Though some antiwar Navy personel "mined" a harbor in Maine with beach balls after Nixon mined Haiphong at May 72 and sank a French freighter.

[Permanut]

60. Navy vet here..

Vietnam era, but never went there. Two friends did go, and didn't come back. Their names are on the wall.

I think about them often, as you do with your brother..

It's important to remember; thanks for the post.

[musclecar6]

61. You brother

Is right. You were a victim. Thank you for your courageous service. I enlisted in 66 in the Air Force as I was going to get drafted but more importantly I came from a small town to Connecticut and had a sense of patriotism as our country was at war and it was the right thing to do. I enlisted for four years got a seven month early out in 69 as things were winding down a little bit over there and they didn’t need as many like me in the service in my career field, procurement.

I never went to southeast asia and was stationed stateside in California for most of my service except training. When you were a young person, you don’t know what the fuck is going on in regards to things like war and you rely on the older experienced leaders to steer you correctly. In fact, many of them were just a bunch of dumb fucks that don’t know what the hell they’re doing except maybe lining their pockets or for other stupid ass reasons. As you get a few miles on you, you start to figure these assholes out and that hopefully has an effect on who you vote for.

Vietnam war was a cluster fuck and should never have happened. We had to get involved in World War II along with everybody else to stop that evil son of a bitch Hitler. Unfortunately we didn’t learn our lesson and we now have a guy now who is every bit as evil and we have half of this country that are so fucking stupid they’re gonna vote for him. Go figure. We are talking about Vietnam and that guy who dreamed up the bone spurs and then called those who went to serve suckers and losers. How in the world anybody could vote for him especially since he mounted an insurrection against our country, is completely beyond me.

[AloeVera]

62. Beautifully said.

I am so sorry for your loss.

I just read your post and wanted to let you know it really touched me. Profound and heartbreaking.

I wish you peace, Dan.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

63. Thank you AloeVera,

that means a lot to me.

[AloeVera]

64. Me too.

You are on a journey, a period of self-reflection and questioning. It seems that way to me, at least. I like the "New Dan", gentler and kinder. Your brother's story, as tragic as it is, is also uplifting, for he lived true to his values. His wisdom lives on and is intertwined with who you are.

I am so glad we have come to where we can connect from our common humanity. Looking back, we can say we've come a long way, baby!

[MarineCombatEngineer]

66. Sorry for the late, late answer,

but you are right, I'm on a journey reflecting on my life and the things I've done.
I've lived my life to the best of my ability, I know now that I've been on the wrong side of history of some events.

In case you haven't noticed, I've been avoiding the events going on in the I/P conflict, its just not worth it anymore and I've been posting a lot less lately.

Thank you for the kind words, it means more to me than you'll ever know and you're right, we've come a long way baby.

[Nixie]

65. Sorry for your loss, MCE

Thank you for your service.

One of the most common things said by veterans of actual combat is that they wound up fighting for the guy next to them. That brotherhood kept them going when nothing else made sense.

Your brother was very wise about Vietnam.

[BoRaGard]

67. .

[MarineCombatEngineer]

68. Love your DU handle.

[Stuart G]

69. Thank You for sharing.