Republican Ben Baker's daughter, son-in-law shot dead

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/family/republican-ben-baker-s-daughter-son-in-law-shot-dead/ar-BB1mZJXF

Republican Ben Baker's daughter, son-in-law shot dead

Apolitician from Missouri, US said in a statement Thursday evening that his daughter and son-in-law have been killed by gangs while they were working as missionaries in Haiti.

Ben Baker, who is a Republican member of the House of Representatives, said in a statement: "Most of you know my daughter and son-in-law Davy and Natalie Lloyd are full-time missionaries in Haiti. They were attacked by gangs this evening and were both killed. They went to Heaven together.”
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Ben Baker added: “Please pray for my family we desperately need strength. And please pray for the Lloyd family as well. I have no other words for now.”
His daughter Natalie and son-in-law Davy worked for Missions in Haiti organisation. It said on their post on social media that the couple was ambushed by a gang of three trucks full of men after coming out of the church.

It added that Davy was taken to a house, tied up, and then beaten before the gang stole the group's trucks and all they had.

The charity organisation further stated: “After that gang left the area, another arrived with one member being shot and killed causing them to going into full attack mode.”

The couple sought help using Starlink internet but eventually the gangs continued shooting at the house and they were killed.

[TomDaisy]

1. They had no business being there. Insane. #PoisonwoodBible

[Srkdqltr]

5. Awful Awful post... y ou should be ashamed of yourself.

[BannonsLiver]

17. Agreed

New lows are reached every day.

[malaise]

19. Why

What were they doing in Haiti?
People were told to leave ages ago. The Haitian people need to be left in peace.

[MyOwnPeace]

26. In reality....

there’s no peace to be had there. There’s o country that has the stomach to do what needs to be done.

[Celerity]

58. Not much peace in Haiti, not for centuries. Worst ever long wave outcome for a Caribbean island nation.

The essence of white systemic socio-economic racism and brutally invasive power fangs sunk deep into a country.

The whole topic makes me weep and rage.

[malaise]

70. They never forgave Haiti fir winning the revolution

It has been sabotage since

[Igel]

69. Perhaps for the same reason there are outsiders in Gaza.

Maybe to tend to the poor, the ailing. Maybe try to help in some way.

[Conjuay]

21. No,they had no business there

Every culture that has existed for the last two thousand years has been destroyed by missionaries "preaching the word"

Their people have been slaughtered, their culture overrun.Mind you own damned business - your religion is a constant flow of contradictions and is A GUILT BASED con. Christianity has not been the panacea promised.

[malaise]

34. THIS

Rec

[IrishAfricanAmerican]

54. Damn straight!

[Jirel]

8. Exactly.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[SoFlaBro]

29. What do you think is the goddamn prize that they won?

[Think. Again.]

79. The stupidest prize of all.

[Sky Jewels]

74. I agree -- they shouldn't have been there.

There is nothing more arrogant than missionaries imposing their STUPID fucking stories on other cultures.

[brush]

78. WTF? Horrible post. There is a place for missionaries.

[Delphinus]

2. I am very sorry to read this

[50 Shades Of Blue]

3. How horrible. :(

[Srkdqltr]

4. How Awful. I have no other words.

Haiti is an awful place right now. Can't anything be done? Why aren't we doing something there?

[Deuxcents]

82. We are doing something there..their weapons and ammunition are coming from the States.

[LuvLoogie]

6. That's really sad.

Good intentions are often left to to pick up the pieces of centuries of colonialism. One can hold faith and spread love, but Haiti is not a clean slate. NGOs can't fix the failures of government.

[Jirel]

9. Religious missions are only making it worse.

They ARE colonial.

[maxrandb]

12. "Religion is what keeps the poor from eating the rich" - Napoleon

[NanaCat]

23. Napoleon wasn't remotely an authority on the matter

Given how abusive he was to the lower ranks when he was a leader.

What keeps the poor from eating the rich is giving them political and economic legs to stand on. Religion is the very last institution that brings the people what they really need. In fact, religion, and christianity in particular, always--ALWAYS--instigates and escalates class warfare to serve its own agenda.

[malaise]

20. Shhhhhhhh

They will never get it

[MustLoveBeagles]

7. My condolences to their family and friends

[JI7]

10. missionaries don't do anything to help. What happened is horrible and sad

but they weren't doing anything to help by going there as missionaries.

[mcar]

11. I honestly didn't think any charities were allowing their

people into Haiti now. I know several volunteers who were called home last year and have never been able to return.

My sympathy to the families.

[RussBLib]

13. Hmmmm

...I wonder how Trump will try to blame Biden for this?....

https://russblib.blogspot.com/?m=1

[bluestarone]

14. Sorry for their deaths. We all need to understand that RELIGION is KILLING people in every country

RELIGION is partially what is destroying our country, and i believe EVERY COUNTRY. It's a FACT. We need to keep religion OUT of our politics, or we will face the same problem the holy land is facing today.

[chowder66]

15. How awful. I'm so sorry for the loss to all of those who loved them.

[Skittles]

16. horrible

very tragic indeed

[BannonsLiver]

18. Sad story.

I’m not totally deranged so I’m not going to grave dance.

[we can do it]

22. I don't think anyone was grave dancing, just questioning why they were still there.

[former9thward]

36. The thread is full of grave dancing.

[WarGamer]

43. no... just read above.

[JustAnotherGen]

59. I'm saving my grave dancing

For Trump.

[newdayneeded]

84. I'm 56 and getting stiff and old,

But if trump drops dead I'll do Micheal Jackson's "Billie Jean" solo dance to the step on donny's grave.

[HAB911]

24. God's plan

nothing to see here

[Srkdqltr]

25. Some of the opinions in the answers are really heartless and small minded.

You don't like religion OK I get that. I have no use for it either but some of the posts are just unnecessarily heartless and just downright mean. I"m ashamed for some on here. The people died real people say, it's a shame so sorry and leave it at that not attack the dead or their religion. We have no clue why they were there and it isn't up to us to judge anyway.
Some people on DU have really become rather nasty . Can I say heartless enough??

[MyOwnPeace]

27. You can.....

and it would be correct. I don’t think it is a far step from that to what some want regarding the ‘immigration problem.’

[Conjuay]

80. These were not the first people killed in this governmental overthrow

BUT THEY SEEM TO BE THE ONLY ONES THAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT.
That folks, is the real disgraceful behavior I see here.

[RazorbackExpat]

81. Good post

[Think. Again.]

28. Such a sad thing for us all to lose ANYONE to violence.

And perhaps taking advantage of people's traumatic circumstances to attempt to indoctrinate them into one's own beliefs should be given a second thought.

[TexasDem69]

33. Bullshit post

You have no idea why those individuals were there.

[Think. Again.]

37. I do actually...

...the OP states clearly numerous times they were missionaries.

[LeftInTX]

39. It happened at a church. A Haitian was also killed. Haiti is crazy right now. Americans shouldn't be there.

They were killed by violent gangs. I really don't think religion had anything to do with this. Haiti is one of the most Christian countries in the western hemisphere. (96% of the population).

[Think. Again.]

41. Yes, I agree with all of that...

...but why did you say my post about being missionaries (and therefore attempting to indoctrinate people into one's own belief system) is bullshit?

Do you disagree that the ultimate goal of missionaries is to "convert" people, otherwise known as indoctrination?

Or do you disagree that the people of Haiti are currently going through a trauma that makes them vulnerable to people looking to take advantage of that trauma to achieve that goal of indoctrination?

[LeftInTX]

42. I doubt if that was why they were killed. The mission runs a school and group home.

If the government isn't providing basic services then often missionaries fill the void.

[Think. Again.]

44. I have no idea why they were killed...

...but I do know that

" (when) the government isn't providing basic services then often missionaries fill the void."

...is doublespeak for

"...taking advantage of people's traumatic circumstances to attempt to indoctrinate them into one's own beliefs ..."

[LeftInTX]

45. What if they were working for the UN? Often UN workers get killed in conflicts. Even vaccine workers get killed.

UN condemns brutal killing of eight polio workers in Afghanistan
https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/02/1112612

Should we blame the vaccine workers for their own death because Afghan men think vaccines are a "colonial conspiracy".

[Think. Again.]

46. You do realize that the UN....

...is not a religious organization looking to indoctrinate people to build their "donation" base, right?

[LeftInTX]

47. What does the Taliban think? That's what matters.

[Think. Again.]

48. Is that relevant somehow...

...or just an attempt to divert the discussion?

[LeftInTX]

49. This couple was murdered and you are blaming the couple for their own deaths because you say they

are "exploiting Haitians".

[Think. Again.]

50. Please don't falsely attribute a quote to me that I did not make....

What I wrote was...

"Such a sad thing for us all to lose ANYONE to violence.

And perhaps taking advantage of people's traumatic circumstances to attempt to indoctrinate them into one's own beliefs should be given a second thought."

Thank you.

[LeftInTX]

51. You are the one who brought that up in response to the OP.

A missionary couple was killed and that was your response.

[Think. Again.]

52. yes, THAT was my response, my response was NOT what you quoted as my response.

[Brenda]

60. Seems to be a pattern, eh?

Your first response was spot on. No one deserves to die like they did but there comes a point when people have to take responsibility for their own actions. They were either absurdly naive or thought themselves untouchable in their religious bubble. There is no common sense involved when a young white couple goes into the middle of desperate, violent, historically abused Haiti and expects a good outcome.

[Think. Again.]

62. Yeah, it seems creating division among DUers...

...is more important than considering any of the opinions expressed by DUers.

[Brenda]

63. Right.

Black and white thinking is never good. But the gaslighting, putting words in people's mouths thing is just so blatant.

Nice to see you!

[Voltaire2]

64. Sure we do.

They were there to indoctrinate people into their religion. It’s literally their mission statement.

[Celerity]

71. Not true (at least for me and others), see post 57

to niyad

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218974769#post57

So much horror and sadness.

After reading some of the comments about missionaries upthread, I went to check out the organization the three victims were with, Missions in Haiti. Founded by Davy Lloyd's parents some 20+ years ago with this breathtakingly arrogant statement "thousands malnourished, uneducated, and doomed to hopeless lives without christ."

[Srkdqltr]

83. Does not matter. When people loose loved ones

Real people say something like "sorry for your loss" or some other condolence. Then shut up, rather than slapping them in the face by saying the dead were too religious, didn't belong there or any other way to demean the victim.

[Deep State Witch]

30. This is Awful, But....

Why were they still in Haiti? Didn't the State Department tell all Americans to evacuate months ago?

[LisaL]

31. Serving as missionaries.

NT

[AnrothElf]

32. Haiti has been hell for Haitians for generations, at this point.

It's interesting what Americans choose to "care" about, isn't it?

[dickthegrouch]

35. I hope the Bakers reflect on the misery guns cause

And change their stance on allowing anyone to have one.

Unless they become part of the solution, they will remain part of the problem.

And yes I understand this didn’t happen in gun-crazy amerkkka. Odds are the guns were manufactured here.

[JustAnotherGen]

61. You are correct - Many of the guns

Come from America.

When Haiti’s gangs shop for guns, the United States is their store
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/05/haiti-gangs-american-guns/

O’Neill said last week it was “incredible” that “weapons and bullets are still going to the gangs, mostly from the United States.”

“There’s got to be much, much more vigorous enforcement of the arms embargo by everybody, but certainly the United States,” he said, “because if the gangs don’t have guns or bullets, they lose their power.”

The influx of U.S. guns to criminals is a growing problem across the Caribbean.

It's been a problem in Mexico too.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

65. Jamaica now... guns are being smuggled in from America

[TexasDem69]

88. So now we're turning this tragedy into a call to ban guns?

Despite the 2d Amendment? I question your priorities, grasp of the Constitution and understanding of how our government works

[Patton French]

38. It's odd.

Some people who are dancing on those poor souls’ graves are the same ones decrying the lack of aid in Gaza. Whatever you think of their beliefs, they were in Haiti to provide aid to people in need. They were there at great personal sacrifice to help other human beings. I’m sure the people they helped were grateful. Aren’t we comforted when people help other people? Good grief. And just wow.

[Wifes husband]

53. Let this one go

The man's daughter and son-in-law were killed. It is inappropriate to make snotty comments about religion or politics at a time like this, even if they may or not be accurate.

His daughter and son-in-law were doing what they thought was a good thing, and are dead.

Condolences are in order.

Let this one go

[Freethinker65]

55. Horrendous

[czarjak]

56. Our church growing up suppoted Hatian missionaries.

Just keep giving they said. For some reason.

[niyad]

57. So much horror and sadness.

After reading some of the comments about missionaries upthread, I went to check out the organization the three victims were with, Missions in Haiti. Founded by Davy Lloyd's parents some 20+ years ago with this breathtakingly arrogant statement "thousands malnourished, uneducated, and doomed to hopeless lives without christ."

[AnrothElf]

66. Weird... I don't see any of the grave dancing in this thread that people keep mentioning.

Maybe because I've ignored all those posters for other reasons, so I can't see those threads?

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

67. some consider statements of "missionaries shouldnt go there" as victim blaming

[Voltaire2]

68. Any criticism of christianity gets angry responses, and in this case

as these people got killed,, outrage. People generally don't see christian privilege as they swim in a christian sea.

[Patton French]

72. Really, is that it?

This isn’t about Christianity. These people had fed hundreds of needy women and children over years. The fact that many here are cheering their assassination is disheartening.

[Voltaire2]

73. Nobody cheered their assassination.

And the literal mission statement of this mission is to convert people to their religion. That is what they are trying to do, anyone fed is also proselytized.

[ananda]

75. The word missionary always makes my skin crawl.

They creep me out.

Maybe they creeped out people over there too.

[Dulcinea]

76. Peace and condolences to their loved ones.

[Walleye]

77. I hope now it is obvious why migrants come to the United States and seek asylum. They could be killed at any minute

[Sogo]

85. Thoughts and prayers....

.

[leftyladyfrommo]

86. Just an add on: I think missionaries sometimes

believe so strongly in their religion that they start to believe that God will protect them.
That's really naive and it is dangerous.

[msfiddlestix]

87. The missionary's mission was to offer themselves as sacrificial lambs for the slaughter, they must be euphoric.

no, I won't be offering "prayers". Next thing we'll be reading is a 'go fund me" to end up being spent on Baker's next election campaign.