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onenote

(45,932 posts)
Sat May 25, 2024, 06:39 PM May 2024

Smith isn't going to move to have Cannon removed. People should stop thinking it will happen. Or that it can.

Once again, some "legal experts" are claiming Smith is setting up Cannon for motion to have her removed from the case. They're not the first, and they probably aren't the last. But they are wrong. Completely. Here's why:

First, many of those arguing she can and should be removed start with an assumption, contrary to US legal principles, that Trump is guilty and Cannon is preventing his conviction. We might feel that way, but the courts do not start from that assumption and thus complaining that Cannon's actions are inconsistent with finding him guilty aren't going to go anywhere.

Second, claims that Cannon was required by law to recuse herself at the outset because she was appointed by Trump are inconsistent with established law and precedent. In 2022, Trump filed a lawsuit against, among others, Hillary Clinton. The case was assigned to Judge Bruce Middlebrooks, who had been appointed to the bench by Bill Clinton. In denying Trump's motion seeking recusal, Judge Middlebrooks stated that for purposes of analyzing that motion, he would equate the interests of Bill and Hilary. He demolished Trump's motion, citing numerous cases that stand for the principle that being appointed by a particular president doesn't constitute grounds for that judge to recuse himself or herself or being forced to recuse. For example, Judge Middlebrooks stated that "the law is well settled that appointment to the bench by a litigant, without more, will not “create in reasonable minds, with knowledge of all the relevant circumstances that a reasonable inquiry would disclose, a perception that [the judge’s] ability to carry out judicial responsibilities with integrity, impartiality, and competence [would be] impaired.” He further cited precedent holding that “There is no support whatsoever for the contention that a judge can be disqualified based simply on the identity of the President who appointed him" and that "Judges generally have political backgrounds to one degree or another but must be presumed, absent more, to be impartial.”

Third, and probably most significantly, those claiming she's guilty of misconduct that would warrant her removal and/or sanctions ignore the express language of the tatute governing "cognizable misconduct" by a judge. That language states that:

(b) Conduct Not Constituting Cognizable Misconduct.
(1) Allegations Related to the Merits of a Decision or Procedural Ruling. Cognizable misconduct does not include an allegation that calls into question the correctness of a judge’s ruling, including a failure to recuse.
If the decision or ruling is alleged to be the result of an improper motive, e.g., a bribe, ex parte contact, racial or ethnic bias, or improper conduct in rendering a decision or ruling, such as personally derogatory remarks irrelevant to the issues, the complaint is not cognizable to the extent that it calls into question the merits of the decision.
(2) Allegations About Delay. Cognizable misconduct does not include an allegation about delay in rendering a decision or ruling, unless the allegation concerns an improper motive in delaying a particular decision or habitual delay in a significant number of unrelated cases.

In short, Smith hasn't, and will not, seek Cannon's removal because, unlike the "experts" who have been claiming over and over that he can and should, he's not going to file a motion he knows he will lose.

PS -- one other factoid that addresses some of the conspiracy theorists: As Judge Middlebrooks pointed out in his decision, Trump's lawsuit against Hillary Clinton was filed in the Fort Pierce division of this District, where only one federal judge sits: Judge Aileen Cannon. Yet, as he notes, the case was assigned to Judge Middlebrooks. How? Because contrary to what some folks claim, the assignment of the documents case to Cannon was not predetermined. It was random.

17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Smith isn't going to move to have Cannon removed. People should stop thinking it will happen. Or that it can. (Original Post) onenote May 2024 OP
Smith cannot remove her rwild1967 May 2024 #1
I guess you didn't actually read my post. onenote May 2024 #8
he's building a record bigtree May 2024 #2
You're pissing into the wind hardluck May 2024 #3
I think you've made some mistakes dpibel May 2024 #4
Was Cannon selected properly gab13by13 May 2024 #5
I never believed it was a random selection Sewa May 2024 #12
You are wrong on many points.... getagrip_already May 2024 #6
Does Garland have the authority to stop Smith? gab13by13 May 2024 #7
For something like that, i have to believe he does getagrip_already May 2024 #9
Please provide a citation to this "third strike" rule you claim the 11th circuit has. onenote May 2024 #10
the only "citation" is George Conway lol... WarGamer May 2024 #14
Other than this, maybe, loL dpibel May 2024 #17
Our system is badly fucked up and in serious need of reform if Cannon's blatantly corrupt conduct... Silent3 May 2024 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author onenote May 2024 #15
Are you a lawyer Onenote, did you pass the Bar? EmeraldCoaster May 2024 #13
Yes. I graduated from an Ivy League law school in 1978. Passed the DC bar that same year. onenote May 2024 #16
 

rwild1967

(39 posts)
1. Smith cannot remove her
Sat May 25, 2024, 06:45 PM
May 2024

He can file with the court of appeals to have her replaced.

Will they?

That's anyone's guess, but that is obviously what he's going to do.

Hell, just her delays could be enough in the right circumstances.

bigtree

(93,295 posts)
2. he's building a record
Sat May 25, 2024, 06:51 PM
May 2024

...this isn't a zero-sum effort for the SC.

Hyper focus on this order or the other only makes sense if there's a vehicle to an appeal.

Claiming he 'won't' seek her removal doesn't make any sense, especially if Cannon is angling to dismiss the case at some point in the future. Every one of these objections is part of the record, and neither you or anyone else knows what is going to happen down the line.

What's clear is Cannon is delaying decisions on easy rejections of Trump's frivolous appeals, and you can see her bending to each and every one of them.

This SC may well have his hands tied right now, but Cannon can't stall forever. Either she eventually allows a trial, or she formally presents herself as the obstacle.

dpibel

(3,746 posts)
4. I think you've made some mistakes
Sat May 25, 2024, 06:53 PM
May 2024

As to your Point the First, I'm pretty sure that what most people are complaining about is that Cannon is preventing the case from going to trial at all. Obvs., most people on DU think Trump is guilty as sin. And everyone on DU who is not sworn as a juror in the case has a perfect right to that opinion. In any case, Cannon is clearly, inarguably, slow-walking the case. That prevents it from coming to any conclusion: guilty, not guilty, hung jury.

I agree with your Point Number Two. Cannon is under not the slightest obligation to recuse based on her appointment.

On your Third Point, I suspect you can give me examples of rash and inaccurate statements about the potential removal process. You are correct that Cannon's done nothing that is cognizable as misconduct sufficient to support a motion to remove.

But that's not the analysis I've been seeing. What I've seen speculated (and, again, I'm talking about people who seem to have some knowledge what they're talking about) is that if Cannon denies Smith's gag order motion, he'll appeal that. If the higher court holds that Cannon is in error, it will be the third time. And there's some notion that the Court of Appeals will decide to remove her from the case just because she's fucking up too much. It's my understanding (and I'll happily read contrary chapter and verse if you've got it), that the COA can do that on its own dime, and needs no formal finding of misconduct.

gab13by13

(30,910 posts)
5. Was Cannon selected properly
Sat May 25, 2024, 07:00 PM
May 2024

when she "was chosen" to oversee court proceedings of the search of Mar-el-Loco?

Not talking about being chosen to hear the case, I wasn't present to watch the random computer draw.

getagrip_already

(17,798 posts)
6. You are wrong on many points....
Sat May 25, 2024, 07:09 PM
May 2024

I'm going to disregard your first point as nonmaterial. It simply doesn't matter. I haven't heard anyone claim that, fwiw, but if they did it wouldn't matter, the circuit isn't going to act on it.

And of all the missed points you brought up, you didn't touch on the most important issue.

Namely that she is showing improper preference to the defendent. It doesn't matter that he appointed her. It doesn't matter that she voted for him. What matters is the pattern of decisions she has handed down in defiance of law, practice, and procedure. Some of it may be her inexperience, but a great deal of it is to benefit the defendrnt.

The 11th circuit has already rebuked her twice. They have a three strike rule.

So the real question is if Smith doesn't appeal a decision to the 11th circuit (and so far, there hasn't been the opportunity to) with recusal, and goes to jeopardy with Canon, did the ag stop him. He does have grounds.

getagrip_already

(17,798 posts)
9. For something like that, i have to believe he does
Sat May 25, 2024, 07:23 PM
May 2024

Asking to force the removal of a federal a l judge is an extreme measure, and I have to believe he would need an ok from garland before trying it.

There is probably a standing doj policy on it.

If he did stop him, it would eventually be reported to congress, but not until the sc work was fully completed, years from now.

onenote

(45,932 posts)
10. Please provide a citation to this "third strike" rule you claim the 11th circuit has.
Sat May 25, 2024, 07:25 PM
May 2024

And please explain how a statutory provision under which delay or procedural decisions are not "cognizable misconduct" suddenly has no meaning in your analysis.

And as far as your mind reading that the AG would be the one stopping Smith from seeking her removal if Smith doesn't act -- please let me know what other strings the AG is pulling in this case, since you seem to have some inside information.

Finally, if there "probably" is a DOJ policy, why hasn't anyone cited it? Is it super-secret?

WarGamer

(18,200 posts)
14. the only "citation" is George Conway lol...
Sat May 25, 2024, 09:17 PM
May 2024
"...There's kind of a three strikes rule," said conservative attorney and co-founder of the Trump-bashing Lincoln Project George Conway said during an appearance on CNN's "Anderson 360" to wade in on the fracas in Florida where U.S. District judge Aileen Cannon is presiding. "I've seen it happen."

"I clerked on the New York Court of Appeals in New York... and I've seen it happen from time to time," he added, referring to judges being removed.

dpibel

(3,746 posts)
17. Other than this, maybe, loL
Sat May 25, 2024, 09:55 PM
May 2024
While a motion to remove a judge generally has to be filed initially with the judge herself, the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals—the appellate court that has jurisdiction over Judge Cannon’s court—has “the authority to order reassignment of a criminal case to another district judge as part of our supervisory authority over the district courts in this Circuit”:

If a district judge’s continued participation in a case presents a significant risk of undermining this public confidence, this Court has the authority and the duty to order the case reassigned to a different district judge. Reassignment may be appropriate, for example, if a judge conducts a trial in a manner that creates the appearance that he is or may be unable to perform his role in an unbiased manner. [Emphasis added.]

In U.S. v. Torkington, the 1989 case linked above, the Eleventh Circuit did just that, ordering that the case be reassigned to a different district judge “to preserve in the public mind the image of absolute impartiality and fairness of the judiciary,” citing a pattern of rulings and statements that created “the appearance of a lack of neutrality.”


Dang, dude. You cited "the only citation"?

On edit: You all are talking about some third strike rule. Don't care what Conway says.

This appears to me to be binding precedent in the 11th.

It appears to say that "embarrassing the court" is sufficient grounds to reassign a case.
 

Silent3

(15,909 posts)
11. Our system is badly fucked up and in serious need of reform if Cannon's blatantly corrupt conduct...
Sat May 25, 2024, 08:51 PM
May 2024

…isn’t sufficient to get her thrown off the case.

Response to Silent3 (Reply #11)

EmeraldCoaster

(134 posts)
13. Are you a lawyer Onenote, did you pass the Bar?
Sat May 25, 2024, 08:58 PM
May 2024

The standard for disqualification is a judge can be removed in “any proceeding in which his impartiality might reasonably be questioned” . I think the fix is obvious. How they get there is complicated. (I am not a lawyer)

onenote

(45,932 posts)
16. Yes. I graduated from an Ivy League law school in 1978. Passed the DC bar that same year.
Sat May 25, 2024, 09:39 PM
May 2024

I was on Law Review and graduated with honors. I'm a member of the Supreme Court bar and have written briefs for parties or amici in several Supreme Court cases although Supreme Court litigation has not been a major part of my practice.

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