Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
118 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
"I need feminism because..." (Original Post) WilliamPitt Nov 2012 OP
Powerful image. forestpath Nov 2012 #1
R&K for this one. nt longship Nov 2012 #2
that says it all. very precise. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #3
Should all self-defense classes be stopped? Bonobo Nov 2012 #4
Are you that daft as to misinterpret the meaning of this young woman's message? WHOOSH! n/t demmiblue Nov 2012 #7
I understand her point, but really, is there anyone who doesn't know that rape is wrong? HiPointDem Nov 2012 #12
An awful lot of guys are not taught that No means No Hekate Nov 2012 #13
Do you think there are really a lot of men who don't know it's wrong to have sex with HiPointDem Nov 2012 #16
I see your point, but sadly, LisaLynne Nov 2012 #23
so much in society and media tell our boys this is a "mans" job. one way or another, it is all seabeyond Nov 2012 #27
It is not just rape, but violence question everything Nov 2012 #32
Rape IS violence lapislzi Nov 2012 #34
Of course it is question everything Nov 2012 #49
Oh, I totally agree. lapislzi Nov 2012 #64
i don't see dark forest Dec 2012 #113
And to highlight this point, I've just heard about the football player question everything Dec 2012 #114
i will take this a step further. my experience with two boys, girls do a lot of hitting, pushing, seabeyond Nov 2012 #35
You are correct. There is violence against men and boys question everything Nov 2012 #50
privilege over testosterone. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #56
Why femrap Nov 2012 #62
Ya know, dark forest Dec 2012 #112
yes. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #26
Actually, a lot of them don't. Deep13 Nov 2012 #14
i think most people who pressure others into doing things know it's wrong. i think most HiPointDem Nov 2012 #17
I think it is more likely that one's internal narrative... Deep13 Nov 2012 #19
everyone will *claim* they're innocent. what they know in their gut is another question. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #20
Well, that's the normal reaction. Deep13 Nov 2012 #47
we have to be clear and teach both, our boys and girls. it is a societal conditioning issue. seabeyond Nov 2012 #28
I wish I could rec your post too. KitSileya Nov 2012 #31
isnt it? this is what tells us as a culture, society, we condition. we knew it. this shows. how many seabeyond Nov 2012 #37
as with drug use, it isn't very effective at all. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #52
are you serious? bull fuckin' shit. of course it is. it is the greatest tool a parent has. seabeyond Nov 2012 #57
The 11-14 year old segment is seriously disturbing. CrispyQ Nov 2012 #41
your last sentence was right on. and that is why it is important that we say loudly, NO, there are seabeyond Nov 2012 #43
That is truly eye-opening LanternWaste Nov 2012 #92
i think you give people way to much credit noiretextatique Nov 2012 #79
i believe the definition of sociopath is that they know intellectually but don't care. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #84
i totally agree, and i will add: our culture really does a poor job noiretextatique Nov 2012 #86
i'll add that our culture is sociopathic, because it encourages people to profit by harming others. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #88
indeed noiretextatique Nov 2012 #105
Outstanding response! CrispyQ Nov 2012 #40
It's not just about the individual rapist, wickerwoman Nov 2012 #18
You said it better than I did. LisaLynne Nov 2012 #24
While I've never been to a strip club mythology Nov 2012 #78
I don't think it's the strip clubs or porn, wickerwoman Nov 2012 #95
There was a study some time ago saying 35% of college-age men... Odin2005 Nov 2012 #22
yes. too many. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #25
If someone *KNOWS* it is wrong, then why would they rape someone? Zorra Nov 2012 #48
who is this enlightened 'we' that needs to 'educate' the other? HiPointDem Nov 2012 #51
This enlightened "we" refers to those of us who don't want to be raped, and who don't want anyone Zorra Nov 2012 #81
You are femrap Nov 2012 #61
well, so are you, then. happy holidays! HiPointDem Nov 2012 #63
yes, he is. n/t Whisp Nov 2012 #103
Not instead of, in addition to. nolabear Nov 2012 #8
I know femrap Nov 2012 #60
Why precisely does the one deny the other? LanternWaste Nov 2012 #90
halle freakin lujah! liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #5
lots of good ones here too LadyHawkAZ Nov 2012 #6
The fact that the students are 60% female influences their choice of message. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #9
then what would be the reason when the number was much lower. it has ALWAYS been, how to prevent seabeyond Nov 2012 #29
I don't think rapists rape because they forgot, or that no one ever told them, that it is wrong. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2012 #30
where you are being obtuse is society conditioning both genders about behaviors that allow rape, seabeyond Nov 2012 #38
our society programs our men to think they have to be aggresive liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #42
and now we have an effectively fun movement spreading the word that 45-75% of rape claims are false. seabeyond Nov 2012 #44
exactly liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #45
It's the seeking to DOMINATE...whatever the psychological background that KoKo Nov 2012 #72
Actually, you're wrong. ChaoticTrilby Nov 2012 #94
Not when I was going to school in the 80s AngryAmish Nov 2012 #55
So what? nt sufrommich Nov 2012 #54
Jeezuz. Talk about out of touch. bluerum Nov 2012 #10
K&R DeSwiss Nov 2012 #11
DURec x2 vancouverite Nov 2012 #15
K&R, saw this on FB Odin2005 Nov 2012 #21
k&r. CrispyQ Nov 2012 #33
K&R Solly Mack Nov 2012 #36
Wow. Succinct, and poignant. Zorra Nov 2012 #39
Does this only apply to legitimate rapes? Deep13 Nov 2012 #46
point. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #58
oh oh oh, and the MRA dude that says feminist are taking all the fun out of dating.... seabeyond Nov 2012 #59
This message was self-deleted by its author sally5050 Nov 2012 #53
THis is not an "either/or" thing. dorkulon Nov 2012 #65
+1000 AlexSatan Nov 2012 #68
This message was self-deleted by its author WilliamPitt Nov 2012 #66
Y'know... WilliamPitt Nov 2012 #67
Continually dealing with this shit is exhausting. It truly is. n/t MadrasT Nov 2012 #74
This really hits home for me hack89 Nov 2012 #69
my daughter will be a college freshman next year liberal_at_heart Nov 2012 #73
This is what is wrong with our society. aandegoons Nov 2012 #70
Misguided regjoe Nov 2012 #71
*sigh* WilliamPitt Nov 2012 #75
A nice shot of pepper spray also does wonders for mellowing someone out. Dash87 Nov 2012 #91
Sigh regjoe Nov 2012 #96
OMG... "Men are pigs." "You can't teach a rapist "don't rape," seabeyond Nov 2012 #76
"Men are pigs" is not a denial of ownership over their behavior. regjoe Nov 2012 #97
i do not agree that the majority of men are pigs. that is the argument. i have only men and boys seabeyond Nov 2012 #99
"Men are pigs." Way to paint with a broad brush. white_wolf Nov 2012 #77
i agree white wolf and thank you for speaking loud and clear. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #80
+1 ismnotwasm Nov 2012 #87
We are pigs regjoe Nov 2012 #98
then i guess you will have to just say, women are pigs. do you know, womens thoughts seabeyond Nov 2012 #100
No you know how you think not how I or other men I know think. white_wolf Nov 2012 #104
Come on. All men are not pigs. Sheldon Cooper Nov 2012 #83
It's a minority of men who rape gollygee Nov 2012 #85
Well, it's a small sign LadyHawkAZ Nov 2012 #93
I get told I am one any time I do something applegrove Nov 2012 #82
No one ever told me that it was not ok to rape someone. MrSlayer Nov 2012 #89
My nieces deserve a full life get the red out Nov 2012 #101
I'd go one step further than teaching "how to avoid getting raped". no_hypocrisy Nov 2012 #102
I know you mean well... FightForMichigan Nov 2012 #106
I'm sorry for your ordeal. no_hypocrisy Nov 2012 #110
Peace to us both FightForMichigan Nov 2012 #111
my freshman yr in college over 20 yrs ago included the dont get raped talk nadine_mn Nov 2012 #107
Like telling your child "don't talk to strangers" LittleBlue Nov 2012 #108
There's nothing essentially wrong with that, except FightForMichigan Nov 2012 #109
Recommended. Heidi Dec 2012 #115
... assumes all the rapists are students JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2012 #116
Derp WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #117
Maybe on an isolated or gated campus JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2012 #118

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
4. Should all self-defense classes be stopped?
Wed Nov 28, 2012, 11:57 PM
Nov 2012

Instead of people taking karate or other self-defense classes, they could just ask muggers and other criminals to enroll in "Don't Attack" classes, I guess?

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
12. I understand her point, but really, is there anyone who doesn't know that rape is wrong?
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:57 AM
Nov 2012

I don't think rapists rape because they're ignorant of that point.

Hekate

(90,658 posts)
13. An awful lot of guys are not taught that No means No
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:25 AM
Nov 2012

Some undergrads make a game of getting girls drunk. Some think it's not rape if she doesn't get hurt, even if she's passed out drunk.

I could go on. But all you have to do is look at the content of "How to avoid rape" classes and realize where the ignorance and violence lie.

So yes, mandatory classes for young men entering college might include information on what counts as rape, and that No means No.

Our local university does freshman classes on alcohol (because alcohol poisoning can kill, and because we lose a couple of kids every year when they fall off the cliff next to campus while partying). I'm pretty sure they include the rape thing, too. I hope the kids (both genders) are listening.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
16. Do you think there are really a lot of men who don't know it's wrong to have sex with
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:57 AM
Nov 2012

someone they've just gotten drunk? Considering the reason they get the girl drunk is so that they can have sex with her?

I think they know it's wrong. They just do it anyway. Because they want to, like the sense of power it gives them, because they despise women, whatever.

Most people who take advantage of others do it while knowing it's wrong, imo. There are gray areas, yes. But mostly, people knowingly do wrong.

LisaLynne

(14,554 posts)
23. I see your point, but sadly,
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:27 AM
Nov 2012

as someone who works closely with students at the university level, there are young men, many of them, actually, who don't know "no means no". Especially, in the cases of aquaintance rape. You are right that there are many out there who know it's wrong and do it anyway, for a myriad of reasons, but there are those who do need such education, from people they respect. I think lately things have maybe been getting a little better, just with the rise in awareness, but honestly, it is still a huge problem.

The point of this message is that why is the responsibility always placed on women? "Don't wear that." "Don't stay out late." "Don't go anywhere alone." Those things don't seem like a big deal until you've really had to live that way. And ultimately, it does push this underlying idea that somehow it's the woman's fault, that women need to be better at controlling their own and others behavior and if they did, there would be no more rape instead of focusing on changing the underlying attitudes that men are socialized with that foster rape.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
27. so much in society and media tell our boys this is a "mans" job. one way or another, it is all
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:55 AM
Nov 2012

about the sex. boys, just being boys.

i think absolutely that we condition our boys to not get it, or see the wrong of it.

yale.... chanting thru the pod, no means yes.

question everything

(47,473 posts)
32. It is not just rape, but violence
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:04 PM
Nov 2012

I think that boys, starting at elementary school, should be taught that girls and women should never be used as a punching bag, or worse, when they say no. No to relationship, to marriage, to dating.

Rape is only a part of our society. There are too many instances when men beat or murder and even kill the children because the woman said No.

lapislzi

(5,762 posts)
34. Rape IS violence
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:47 PM
Nov 2012

Dressed in sexual clothing. It is the act of taking something from another by force or coercion. Something that the rapist feels entitled to take. Something that maybe the rapist has been conditioned to believe they are entitled to, regardless of the wishes of the raped.

That's violence. Nothing sexy about it. Sex is just the tool one uses to take what they think they're allowed to have.

question everything

(47,473 posts)
49. Of course it is
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 03:35 PM
Nov 2012

but why limit violence to rape only? Rape often happens to strangers, to someone just jogging in the park. And the criminal may never be found.

But we cannot ignore non-rape violence by men who cannot accept not being part of a woman's life and murder her, or beat her because she is "his." How dare she tell him to go away, that she no longer wants to be "his?" And too often family members of these women, new boyfriends get murdered, too.

Yes, I do include O.J. Simpson in this category.

lapislzi

(5,762 posts)
64. Oh, I totally agree.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 05:00 PM
Nov 2012

My point was not to trivialize the other kinds of violence that are embedded in our tropes and culture. Absolutely not.

I was just correcting the common misconception that rape is about sex, which it clearly isn't. It's about power and control. Anyone who says differently is selling something.

dark forest

(110 posts)
113. i don't see
Sun Dec 2, 2012, 12:00 PM
Dec 2012

where "power and control" and "sex" are mutually exclusive at all.

For a lot of men, being in a sense of control is very arousing. Other wise, why is there so much truly brutal porn out there?

question everything

(47,473 posts)
114. And to highlight this point, I've just heard about the football player
Sun Dec 2, 2012, 08:36 PM
Dec 2012

who killed the mother of his child and then himself.

Why? If he has problems with her - I did not bother to read the details - why kill her?

But this is the problem with too many men. They are frustrated, humiliated, depressed - whatever - so they take it on the women in their lives and, too often, on the families of these women.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
35. i will take this a step further. my experience with two boys, girls do a lot of hitting, pushing,
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:49 PM
Nov 2012

kicking and punching. the teachers tend to tell the boys that it is not a big deal, or punish the boys if they protect themselves. HUGE problem when boys were in elementary schools. an imbalance of power at that age. we are teaching boys to NEVER hit a girl. and not vice versa. we need to address that as a culture.

basically telling little boys to man up

question everything

(47,473 posts)
50. You are correct. There is violence against men and boys
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 03:36 PM
Nov 2012

by other men and boys, by girls and women.

But most of the cases it is the man who cannot take a no for an answer. Testosterone may play a role here.

 

femrap

(13,418 posts)
62. Why
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 04:38 PM
Nov 2012

do I bother reading these threads filled w/ people who *#^@#&@()_)@#&&$%@(@( &^#!#$%^&*()_)(*&^%$#@!

snip

dark forest

(110 posts)
112. Ya know,
Sun Dec 2, 2012, 11:55 AM
Dec 2012

I don't think that it is necessarily that people think that the woman is to blame for getting raped in these cases. It is that the woman is the person that is going to have to live with the consequences of being raped.

Given due process, and all, the rapist may face only minimal, or no, consequences.

So, yes, perhaps young men should receive instruction in learning not to rape. Maybe it will do some good with most, or at least some of them. But not all.

I think women should also receive instruction in how to defend themselves, what resources are available if they can't, and what situations pose the greatest danger of them being raped, so that they can avoid them, if they so choose.

Deep13

(39,154 posts)
14. Actually, a lot of them don't.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:38 AM
Nov 2012

A lot of people think there is a gray area where the woman is drunk or otherwise badgered into compliance. Almost everyone knows rape is wrong, but not everyone knows that what he is doing actually constitutes rape. An awful lot of defendants actually thought that the woman would melt in their arms once he got things started. Also, men need to create a culture where they will not tolerate rape or the company of a rapist. Look at that Kobe basketball guy. Couldn't the NBA find a player who was not under a cloud of rape allegations? Are people who want to play ball for a living rare? What message does it send to both young women and young men that such behavior is ignored if a guy can play a kids' game?

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
17. i think most people who pressure others into doing things know it's wrong. i think most
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:59 AM
Nov 2012

people who use alcohol drugs to weaken other people's will to get something over on them know it's wrong. i think women who get men to do things for them by using the implied promise of relationship a/o sex know it's wrong too.

they just want what they want & are willing to take advantage of others to get it.

Deep13

(39,154 posts)
19. I think it is more likely that one's internal narrative...
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 02:09 AM
Nov 2012

...is modified to make the situation okay. Everyone is innocent in his own mind.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
20. everyone will *claim* they're innocent. what they know in their gut is another question.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 02:12 AM
Nov 2012

you've never claimed you were innocent while knowing you were guilty -- or at least, half-guilty? i have.

Deep13

(39,154 posts)
47. Well, that's the normal reaction.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 02:33 PM
Nov 2012

One first has to have a clear understanding that the action in question is wrong. And their are a lot of people who really are never wrong in their own eyes. "She shouldn't be here" "...dressed like that" "...leading me on" "she knew what this was about" "I needed this" "I'll never see her again" "she enjoyed it" "should have put up more of a fight" etc, etc.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
28. we have to be clear and teach both, our boys and girls. it is a societal conditioning issue.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:05 AM
Nov 2012

Societal Attitudes Supporting Rape

- A survey of 6,159 college students enrolled at 32 institutions in the U.S. found the following: (ref 4)

· 54% of the women surveyed had been the victims of some form of sexual abuse; more than one in four college-aged women had been the victim of rape or attempted rape;

· 57% of the assaults occurred on dates;

· 73% of the assailants and 55% of the victims had used alcohol or other drugs prior to the assault;

· 25% of the men surveyed admitted some degree of sexually aggressive behavior;

· 42% of the victims told no one.

- In a survey of high school students, 56% of the girls and 76% of the boys believed forced sex was acceptable under some circumstances. (ref 5)

- A survey of 11-to-14 year-olds found ref 5)

· 51% of the boys and 41% of the girls said forced sex was acceptable if the boy, "spent a lot of money" on the girl;

· 31% of the boys and 32% of the girls said it was acceptable for a man to rape a woman with past sexual experience;

· 87% of boys and 79% of girls said sexual assault was acceptable if the man and the woman were married;

· 65% of the boys and 47% of the girls said it was acceptable for a boy to rape a girl if they had been dating for more than six months.

- In a survey of male college students:

· 35% anonymously admitted that, under certain circumstances, they would commit rape if they believed they could get away with it (ref 6,7).

· One in 12 admitted to committing acts that met the legal definitions of rape, and 84% of men who committed rape did not label it as rape.(ref 6,7)

- In another survey of college males: (ref 8)

· 43% of college-aged men admitted to using coercive behavior to have sex, including ignoring a woman's protest, using physical aggression, and forcing intercourse.

· 15% acknowledged they had committed acquaintance rape; 11% acknowledged using physical restraints to force a woman to have sex.

- Women with a history of rape or attempted rape during adolescence were almost twice as likely to experience a sexual assault during college, and were three times as likely to be victimized by a husband. (ref 9)

- Sexual assault is reported by 33% to 46% of women who are being physically assaulted by their husbands.(ref 10)


http://www.uic.edu/depts/owa/sa_rape_support.html

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
31. I wish I could rec your post too.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:58 AM
Nov 2012

It certainly is eye-opening (and jaw-dropping, as it were) to see these statistics.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
37. isnt it? this is what tells us as a culture, society, we condition. we knew it. this shows. how many
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:50 PM
Nov 2012

parents discuss these attitudes with kids, of both genders.

discussion and awareness is VERY effective.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
57. are you serious? bull fuckin' shit. of course it is. it is the greatest tool a parent has.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 04:25 PM
Nov 2012

wow.



odds go way way way up for a child if a parent actually does their job from day one. and has tons more influence over the child than peers, when connected, a unit, providing an environment that is safe and secure.

CrispyQ

(36,460 posts)
41. The 11-14 year old segment is seriously disturbing.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:03 PM
Nov 2012
- A survey of 11-to-14 year-olds foundref 5)

· 51% of the boys and 41% of the girls said forced sex was acceptable if the boy, "spent a lot of money" on the girl;

· 31% of the boys and 32% of the girls said it was acceptable for a man to rape a woman with past sexual experience;

· 87% of boys and 79% of girls said sexual assault was acceptable if the man and the woman were married;

· 65% of the boys and 47% of the girls said it was acceptable for a boy to rape a girl if they had been dating for more than six months.



The first stat also shows how our society values money - we excuse all kinds of bad behavior for those with money.

These numbers do not represent individual parenting. This is the influence of an entire culture, a rape culture.
 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
43. your last sentence was right on. and that is why it is important that we say loudly, NO, there are
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:42 PM
Nov 2012

a lot of our children that are not taught what rape and not rape is. society teaches them what their privilege dictates and what womens roles are. if a parent does not jump in, head first, addressing these issues regularly when they come up, why the hell would we expect our kids to be able to do it innately, with all society shows them.

you know, our children are being raised on rape porn, or the normalization of rape as entertainment. just a girls true fantasy. really.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
92. That is truly eye-opening
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:58 PM
Nov 2012

"One in 12 admitted to committing acts that met the legal definitions of rape, and 84% of men who committed rape did not label it as rape..."

1 in 12 college males engaged in activities that met the legal definition of rape. That is mind-boggling, scary, and absurdly surprising to me. That's close to 10% of college males either too evil to be in college or too stupid to be in college (or both).

Yeesh!

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
79. i think you give people way to much credit
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 08:27 PM
Nov 2012

sociopaths, for example, probably don't know that hurting someone is wrong. people with no conscience and no empathy do not feel remorse about hurting others...they feel entitled to hurt others. i put rapists in this category, and that's includes all rapists, including the guys who put drugs in women's drinks.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
84. i believe the definition of sociopath is that they know intellectually but don't care.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:05 PM
Nov 2012

and actually i don't think sociopaths are anything but an extreme manifestation of something that lurks in everyone.

morality is often situational; nice upstanding young men in wartime turn into murdering rapists, for example. ordinary people are more willing to behave badly to people they don't believe can retaliate, people they perceive as weaker, stupider, whatever. i've done it myself & am the first to admit it.

people have a shadow side.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
86. i totally agree, and i will add: our culture really does a poor job
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:15 PM
Nov 2012

of educating people about rape, as evidenced by the GOP's team rape's slew of ignorant comments.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
88. i'll add that our culture is sociopathic, because it encourages people to profit by harming others.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:33 PM
Nov 2012

and a lot of the time with clear knowledge that they are harming others.

kids don't learn not to rape because someone tells them rape is bad. they learn not to rape by absorbing an entire cultural complex about how to treat people and what the other *is*.

i continue to believe that the majority of teens & adults know rape is wrong. there may be some ambiguity about whether specific cases are "rape," but people learn through experience that being pressured and forced and attacked feels bad. it's wrong; that's why people feel not quite comfortable when they do it, whatever they tell themselves.

wickerwoman

(5,662 posts)
18. It's not just about the individual rapist,
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 02:06 AM
Nov 2012

it's about the culture that enables them- frat boys binge drinking, going to strip clubs, exposing themselves to women on the street... there are many groups of "men" where objectifying and disrespecting women is an acceptable way to have a good time on a Friday night and within that group there may be one or two men who woud actually rape a woman and five or six others who wouldn't but also wouldn't turn in a buddy they saw doing it. We could probably make some progress on the five or six so that they might intervene or drop out of the group or report the rape and support the woman's story.

I've worked with guys who might, on the surface, know that "rape is wrong" but who spend an awful lot of time and mental energy calculting how many drinks they would have to buy a girl before they could sleep with her. There's still quite a bit of borderline rapey behaviour that's far too acceptable in mainstream culture.

LisaLynne

(14,554 posts)
24. You said it better than I did.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:29 AM
Nov 2012

That's exactly the point I was trying to make. It's the culture that enables the behavior, so even if on their own, these guys might, if pressed say, "Yeah, rape is wrong" they need to be told "these behaviors are rape."

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
78. While I've never been to a strip club
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:25 PM
Nov 2012

I don't see how they enable rape and more than clubs where guys strip enable rape. And a quick scan of the available research doesn't support the claim that strip clubs are associated with rape or even any good studies that indicate they are associated with other crime.

If looking at naked people is inherently objectifying, and objectifying inherently contributes to rape, then you have to logically conclude that women who watch porn videos or go to male strip clubs also contribute to rape. That's not a ledge I'd stand on.

Personally I avoid strip clubs because their business model doesn't cater to people disinclined to spending increasing amounts of money. Likewise I avoid casinos.






wickerwoman

(5,662 posts)
95. I don't think it's the strip clubs or porn,
Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:50 AM
Nov 2012

I think it's the pack mentality and sense of entitlement that goes along with large groups of young men socially conditioned to feel that binge drinking combined with leering at, groping and otherwise sexual objectifying women equals a great night out. And the fact that this is written off as "boys being boys" instead of "assholes crossing a line who need to be set straight" is the source of the problem.

Getting rid of strip clubs or porn isn't going to get rid of rape, obviously, but making it socially unacceptable to disrespect women can create more positive peer pressure and surveillance which might help protect more women from rape.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
22. There was a study some time ago saying 35% of college-age men...
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:22 AM
Nov 2012

would "Force a woman to have sex with them" if they could get away with it.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
48. If someone *KNOWS* it is wrong, then why would they rape someone?
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 02:38 PM
Nov 2012

Last edited Fri Nov 30, 2012, 01:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Maybe it's more like they've been told that it is wrong, but they don't really understand and believe that it is wrong, and they rape because they simply want to, and simply hope they don't get caught.

In their minds/consciences, their crime is not the act of raping someone. To them, their only crimes are getting caught, and punished, for raping someone. Later remorse is not due to the harm that they caused to another person, but only because they are personally being harmed because they are being punished for the harm they have caused.


Although I believe that there are flaws in Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, it appears to me that his theory is a fairly accurate overview of factors that comprise the developmental process of what is generally known as a "conscience". It may be that rapists are way down on this scale of "self actualization"; like toddlers, (and conservatives ~ sorry, I know I'm being bad, heehee)) they act upon unconsidered impulse rather than consideration based in a conscience based in a healthy developed ethical belief system.



It's possible that one of the reasons that some individuals who remain in the lower, tiers of this scale of self actualization is because they have not examined their thought processes with any serious and objective scrutiny, and subsequently never recognized the negative institutionalized and/or enculturated mores that comprise deeply rooted parts of their belief systems.

Institutionalized, enculturated misogyny, may also play a part in why some rapists rape women. They are told it is wrong to hate women, but many of the underlying misogynistic societal/cultural factors with which they have been imprinted in infancy and adolescence are so strongly rooted in their consciousness that they are unable to even recognize their own perception of women is as a group that is naturally inferior.

"The bible teaches that women brought sin and death into the world, that she precipitated the fall of the race, that she was arraigned before the judgment seat of Heaven, tried, condemned and sentenced. Marriage for her was to be a condition of bondage, maternity a period suffering and anguish, and in silence and subjection, she was to play the role of a dependent on man's bounty for all her material wants, and for all the information she might desire... Here is the Bible position of woman briefly summed up."
--Elizabeth Cady Stanton


It is very possible that, in our society, institutionalized/enculturated misogyny is primarily the product of widespread Judeo-Christan dogma, dogma that is illustrated in the examples below. These just a few examples among a multitude of examples of Judeo-Christian dogma, (and Islamic dogma as well), that perpetrates and promotes the continued institutionalization and enculturation of misogyny and homophobia in many modern societies.

"Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." (Judges 19:24-25)


"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)


"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." (Leviticus 21 )


"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean." (Leviticus 12:2)

"But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days." (Leviticus 12:5)


"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)


"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)


And on and on and on and on, ad nauseum.

My point, relative to your question, is that maybe we need to adopt a new perspective and approach to understanding and educating all age groups about ethics, misogyny, homophobia, racism, etc. ~ because far too many individuals are apparently not getting the idea that these things they do, and why these things they do, are ethically wrong.
 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
51. who is this enlightened 'we' that needs to 'educate' the other?
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 03:42 PM
Nov 2012

you seem to be making some distinction between intellectual knowing & gut knowing. will your 'education' turn intellectual knowing into gut knowing, or is it just more intellectualizing?

gut knowing doesn't come from education, i think.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
81. This enlightened "we" refers to those of us who don't want to be raped, and who don't want anyone
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 08:34 PM
Nov 2012

else to be raped.

I suppose it is possible that some people are born with an intuitive ability to distinguish and understand right from wrong, if that is what "gut knowing" is, without ever have been taught anything about what is right or wrong; but I suspect this is pretty rare, and that basic "gut knowing" is actually a product of enculturation, or socialization ~ the adoption of the behavior patterns of the surrounding culture.

I believe that ethics are primarily learned principles, and that the evolution of conscience in the self begins at a very early age, and is developed through understanding.

Some people grow and evolve to the point where they self-actualize, and don't deliberately cause harm, because their consciousness/conscience understands that it is wrong to deliberately cause harm. In other words, they would not steal a billion dollars from someone even if they knew for sure that they would definitely never get caught or punished for doing so.

In contrast, some people may not deliberately harm simply because of fear that they will be punished for doing so. In other words they would happily steal $10 from someone if they knew they would never be caught or punished.

(I'm sorry, part of the work that I do part time nowadays is applied behavioral analysis and therapy. It is my job to figure out the motivations behind people's behavior, and how to help them have a better quality of life by showing them pathways to more socially appropriate, self rewarding behaviors, most often by using positive reinforcement, so I get a bit wordy sometimes when discussing human behavior. OK, wordy most of the time when I discuss human behavior. OK...all the time.)

Anyway, I believe that educating people from a very early age to help them understand ethics so that as many people as possible can more easily evolve a genuine sense of ethics, develop a self-actualized conscience, and therefore become happy individuals with a sense that they have a satisfying quality of life, is just as important, actually much more important, than teaching them basic math.

In other words, actually helping little Suzy realistically understand and process why something is right or wrong, rather than just telling her that something is right or wrong, or telling her that something is right or wrong simply because "God" says so, and that she is going to go to hell if she does not do what "God" wants her to do.

nolabear

(41,960 posts)
8. Not instead of, in addition to.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:21 AM
Nov 2012

Teaching young men that young women are precious human beings who should be treated with the same care and respect that you yourself want and deserve seems to me to be all to the good.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
90. Why precisely does the one deny the other?
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:52 PM
Nov 2012

Why precisely would the one (don't-orientations) deny the other (self defense classes)?

Another guess?

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
29. then what would be the reason when the number was much lower. it has ALWAYS been, how to prevent
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:09 AM
Nov 2012

rape. and it has NEVER been, dont rape.

so, how does your post jive with reality

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
30. I don't think rapists rape because they forgot, or that no one ever told them, that it is wrong.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:48 AM
Nov 2012

Rapists know that it is wrong and do it anyway.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
38. where you are being obtuse is society conditioning both genders about behaviors that allow rape,
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 12:51 PM
Nov 2012

but, not defined as rape. just defined as roles we are suppose to play.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
42. our society programs our men to think they have to be aggresive
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:14 PM
Nov 2012

Being a sensitive guy who cares about the feelings of a woman is considered sissy or gay. Some men also don't like it when they can't control women and tell them what to do as seen by how the republican men acted during the campaign calling Sandra Fluke a slut and saying that a woman's body can prevent a pregnancy after rape and if a pregnancy does occur it is God's will and that with modern technology there really is no situation in which the mother's life is in danger anymore. Rape victims are looked upon as gold digging sluts who are only out for money or revenge. Rape victims are still blamed for the way they dress like they some how brought it on themselves or that they deserved it. There is a pervasive disrespect toward women in this country. If we are to do anything about rape and domestic violence it is this cultural attitude toward women that must be addressed.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
44. and now we have an effectively fun movement spreading the word that 45-75% of rape claims are false.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:44 PM
Nov 2012

why should a boy take it seriously. why should a girl think she was raped or if she is confident in self worth enough to know she was rape, why say anything.

conditioning. none of this is who we are.

all of this is who we create.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
72. It's the seeking to DOMINATE...whatever the psychological background that
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 06:39 PM
Nov 2012

causes this...the will is to DOMINATE. If you checked rapists backgrounds you would probably see abuse of many of them in their past....and some just have the sociopathy on their own through a gene screw up. But, it's DOMINANCE for CRUELTY. To subjugate a person to their will.

ChaoticTrilby

(211 posts)
94. Actually, you're wrong.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:42 PM
Nov 2012
http://election.democraticunderground.com/10021898292#post28

Read all of that. Wow! A lot of people think that, in certain cases, rape is A-OK. Acceptable, even. In other words, "I think..." and "I don't think..." do not work as proper sources. Please, do the research next time. That tends to help.
 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
55. Not when I was going to school in the 80s
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 03:50 PM
Nov 2012

the don't rape message was pretty clear to this lad (in freshman orientation).

Deep13

(39,154 posts)
46. Does this only apply to legitimate rapes?
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 02:28 PM
Nov 2012

Because some women are so easily raped. And what if God wants her to have a rape baby? Will the asprin between the knees protect her from rape?

"everyone knows rape is wrong." Do they really?

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
59. oh oh oh, and the MRA dude that says feminist are taking all the fun out of dating....
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 04:28 PM
Nov 2012

or some such rot

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

dorkulon

(5,116 posts)
65. THis is not an "either/or" thing.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 05:27 PM
Nov 2012

2 long threads about this pic, really for nothing. EVERYONE should be taught that rape is wrong, how to stop it, how to stop it happening to you, to others, and how to stop others from doing it. The end.

Response to WilliamPitt (Original post)

 

WilliamPitt

(58,179 posts)
67. Y'know...
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 05:40 PM
Nov 2012

I've been fucking around on this forum for eleven and a half years. For a variety of reasons, that body of experience makes me want to believe the best about DU.

The fact that the discussion between post #4 and post #60 above was necessary is one of those cold-water-in-the-face moments.

When I posted this, I just simply expected any replies to be of the "Yeah," "Truth," or "Right on" variety.

The fact that the picture I posted ACTUALLY NEEDS A FUCKING EXPLANATION AND DEFENSE around here is tremendously revealing, and equally depressing.

To those who have stood this particular watch: OK. I get it. Late perhaps, but damn.

God fucking damn it.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
73. my daughter will be a college freshman next year
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 06:42 PM
Nov 2012

It scares me more than when she first started dating.

aandegoons

(473 posts)
70. This is what is wrong with our society.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 06:21 PM
Nov 2012

We put the onus on the victim and not in improving society. We are stuck circling the drain so to speak.

fix robbers = lock doors not improve lives
fix rape = don't look female or be lucky enough to be born male not teaching respect from day one
fix education = more test and more failure not improving social structures and economic situations

Visit the gungeon and see how little peoples lives are worth to many members of our society. I believe we will never make the right step to reduce the reprehensible like rape until we adjust societies value of the human.

 

regjoe

(206 posts)
71. Misguided
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 06:21 PM
Nov 2012

You can't teach a rapist "don't rape," but you sure as hell can teach anybody safety to help avoid such situations.

Men are pigs. I have taught my daughter how to avoid and I hope like hell that her college will do the same.

 

WilliamPitt

(58,179 posts)
75. *sigh*
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:02 PM
Nov 2012

"You can't" is a surrender.

I hope for better things along the evolutionary chain than a surrender to the assumed inevitable.

But, yeah, for your daughter in the meantime: Eyes, Throat, Sternum, Balls. A good, hard shot to any of those ends the discussion. "Knee" is also an option, if she can kick it inside out.

 

regjoe

(206 posts)
96. Sigh
Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:12 AM
Nov 2012

"You can't" is the reality and false hope does not change that.

Being aware of your surroundings and avoiding certain situations are much more important than the physical options you make light of.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
76. OMG... "Men are pigs." "You can't teach a rapist "don't rape,"
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:06 PM
Nov 2012

you get the majority of rapes, vast majority, are date rapes. guys, that do not think they are raping. just being, you know, pigs, cause our men and society say this is who they are after all. so really, they have no ownership over their behavior. and their goal is always, sex. nothing less. so whatever means. you know. booze. drugs. no means yes.

all the cutsey things we teach our boys so they can become well round .... pigs.

hey ALL.... i have two teenage boys and know 100% better. not to mention ALL the men in my life that are NOT pigs. total bullshit.

 

regjoe

(206 posts)
97. "Men are pigs" is not a denial of ownership over their behavior.
Fri Nov 30, 2012, 11:24 AM
Nov 2012

Nor does it justify their behavior.

Men, even as teenage boys, know when they are doing wrong. They know it is wrong to feel up a girl who has passed out, and they know it is wrong to use force. Blaming society for their choices does nothing.

No matter how or how much you teach "don't rape," there will always be somebody who will rape. Just as there will always be somebody who will murder and here will always be somebody who is a pedo.
As long as those realities exist, it is our duty to teach everybody how to try and avoid them.

Rather than saying "...instead of don't rape," she should have said "...but not don't rape."

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
99. i do not agree that the majority of men are pigs. that is the argument. i have only men and boys
Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:13 PM
Nov 2012

around me. i have spent a lifetime of having only boys and men around me. they are not pigs.

that is my point.

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
77. "Men are pigs." Way to paint with a broad brush.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:18 PM
Nov 2012

Way to insult 50% of the population. No the majority of men are not pigs. I'm sorry, but your statement was just a sexist as if I had said "women are sluts." Neither are true or acceptable statements.

 

regjoe

(206 posts)
98. We are pigs
Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:01 PM
Nov 2012

From early age, our thoughts center on satisfying our sexual urges. The majority of us may have control, but that does not mean we do not think constantly of satisfying those urges.

I am male and I know how we think. I do not agree with the word "slut." So I disagree with the comparison.

I do agree though, it is a broad brush I have used. Maybe it is because I am a husband or because I have a daughter, I don't know.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
100. then i guess you will have to just say, women are pigs. do you know, womens thoughts
Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:16 PM
Nov 2012

center on sexual urges also. not that different from men.

women think about it like 12 times a day, men 17. women also think about food and sleep less than men. the only thing we can find as a difference is men might be a tad more self focused than women. just a tad.

so, if this is your definition of men being pigs. then i guess you will just have to start calling women pigs, also.

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
104. No you know how you think not how I or other men I know think.
Fri Nov 30, 2012, 01:41 PM
Nov 2012

It is a very broad brush you've used.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
85. It's a minority of men who rape
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:12 PM
Nov 2012

I do think teaching college freshman what rape is would help, because I think a lot don't understand that all potential date rape scenarios are actually rape.

But even then, most men are fine. I'm married to one of the fine men. The vast majority of men I know I have a great deal of trust in.

Also, just teaching someone to avoid being raped really does teach people to question her rather than the rapist afterward. "Didn't you go to the seminar? You aren't supposed to do X." You get into blaming the victim. I think everyone should go to one seminar together, men and women, and they should all be taught definitions of rape, have a discussion of date rape and sexual coercion, and also all talk about safety tips, for rape and for robbery and other crimes that they could run into on campus, as they're away from their parents' homes for the first time.

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)
93. Well, it's a small sign
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:11 PM
Nov 2012

and there's only so much room for legible writing on it.

A sign that tried to say "...instead of "This college has a police force and the prosecutor on speed-dial. We take sexual assault VERY SERIOUSLY. If you try it you WILL be prosecuted, you WILL likely go to prison and you WILL NOT finish college. In case you really don't know what sexual assault is (seriously? you don't know?) here is an official to explain it to you. Consent- get it! We're not kidding!" just wouldn't scan as well nor be easily readable. This is a sound byte.

Since most rapes are by friends/acquaintances/people the victim knows or is close to, not strangers in dark alleys, there's no possible way of avoiding the situations completely. It's a discussion that needs to happen with both sexes, not just one.

 

MrSlayer

(22,143 posts)
89. No one ever told me that it was not ok to rape someone.
Thu Nov 29, 2012, 09:45 PM
Nov 2012

No one ever had to. It's pretty frigging obvious that if someone doesn't want you to touch them that you don't touch them. I've never had anyone that didn't want to do something sexual with me do it. I'm incapable of sexual performance without a willing partner. I literally can't rape someone. I'm just not wired that way.

The idea that you have to tell someone that it's wrong to rape is bizarre to me and yet there is an apparent need to do so. It's crazy.

get the red out

(13,462 posts)
101. My nieces deserve a full life
Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:18 PM
Nov 2012

They are unique human beings and deserve to live as fully as any other person. I choose to fight for the rights I've had and more for them.

no_hypocrisy

(46,086 posts)
102. I'd go one step further than teaching "how to avoid getting raped".
Fri Nov 30, 2012, 12:31 PM
Nov 2012

I'd require at least one semester of self defense for women. I mean serious self defense.

My gym teacher in high school gave us a 45 minute talk about where and where to avoid walking, how to avoid attracting attention by what we wore, what to look for when walking alone, etc. Maybe 5 minutes devoted to scream/run away, scrotum-punching, etc. I felt it was useless (1975).

If women are to be empowered, it takes more than pepper spray in the purse. It's being ready to defend oneself, maim if necessary. Conceded there are situations one should be more attentive, but overall, women have the same rights to public spaces as men, without being molested and/or harmed.

FightForMichigan

(232 posts)
106. I know you mean well...
Fri Nov 30, 2012, 05:24 PM
Nov 2012

... but no.

It's not that there's anything wrong with self-defense classes. I understand they've done a lot to build up the self-esteem and strength of many people, men and women alike. So I'm not against them.

I just don't like to see it packaged as the solution to rape, because it isn't. Because when his hands are at your throat and you can't breathe, and he's screaming "DON'T YOU EVER SAY NO TO ME" and all you can think about is what you need to do to survive the night, and will you ever see another sunrise, and what will your parents do - it all kind of flies out the window.

The kind of self-defense you're talking about wouldn't have helped me. I was with someone I trusted right up to that moment. And then there was no time to think of fighting back like an all-star. I did what I had to do to survive.

So, self-defense? Sure. But there's something I just hate about this idea that women should just take a self-defense class and that will stop rape. Because it doesn't always. And sometimes it's not even safe to try. And those who don't try, or who do but can't stop it, they shouldn't have the burden of failure placed on their head. And too often, that's where this kind of thinking leads.

no_hypocrisy

(46,086 posts)
110. I'm sorry for your ordeal.
Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:57 PM
Nov 2012

I had someone break into my locked bedroom who was a drunk guest of my housemates, sleeping over. He was naked and held a chicken carving knife. I screamed for help and nobody came. I wish I had known some self defense to end the situation sooner than it did. (I got him out by alternately talking to him and threatening to call the police. If I was going to die, I wanted him held in prison.)

One is never "prepared" to be raped.

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
107. my freshman yr in college over 20 yrs ago included the dont get raped talk
Fri Nov 30, 2012, 06:20 PM
Nov 2012

It was terrifying - I was 17 and away from home for the first time in my life.

All of the freshmen girls lived in a locked dorm the first year (affectionately called the Virgin Vault) once we moved on to sophomores and older we were "trusted" to live in unlocked dorms and/or co-ed dorms.


So sad

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
108. Like telling your child "don't talk to strangers"
Fri Nov 30, 2012, 06:27 PM
Nov 2012

or "look both ways before crossing the street." It's not an implication that the child is at fault if they are abducted or hit by a car, it's just a common sense safety precaution.

The university is entirely correct in teaching students about behavior that could put them in a bad situation.

Why can't people just take a step back and use common sense for a moment? A "don't rape" class? Really? Do you think a sexual predator is going to think twice because he took a class? That's just naive.

FightForMichigan

(232 posts)
109. There's nothing essentially wrong with that, except
Fri Nov 30, 2012, 06:51 PM
Nov 2012

... if you teach them 'don't talk to strangers' while neglecting to add 'and tell mommy and daddy if anyone ever harms you, even if that is an aunt, uncle, grandparent or teacher,' you're kind of missing the boat.

Similarly, there's nothing inherently wrong with saying 'be aware of your surroundings.' But most rapes come from people who are trusted.

And also, as the only way to truly stop rape is to not have any more attempted rapes, what is wrong with telling people "These are the laws, break them and you're in a world of hurt"? We do that with drunk driving, for example, don't we?

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,339 posts)
116. ... assumes all the rapists are students
Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:30 AM
Dec 2012

Plus, some will skip freshman orientation to hit the frat pledge parties.

 

WilliamPitt

(58,179 posts)
117. Derp
Mon Dec 3, 2012, 11:58 AM
Dec 2012

On a campus, it's a pretty safe bet.

Your second comment makes no sense. Perhaps you were still a little dazzled by your derpy hairsplitting when you typed it.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,339 posts)
118. Maybe on an isolated or gated campus
Mon Dec 3, 2012, 12:51 PM
Dec 2012

but on an urban campus, it's not a safe bet.

The second comment was just snark. The thought is that students who are rapists will probably skip or mock any orientation class that suggests rape is bad. Such a student would probably have a long history of behavioral issues, including bullying, and would probably be somewhat sociopathic before becoming a college freshman.

I'm not sure what "derpy" means, but if it's related to "dumb", I plead guilty. I should have known better than to post in the middle of a DU thread-storm.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»"I need feminism bec...