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IDF knew of Hamas's plan to kidnap 250 before October 7 attack - report
https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-806634The document, which was compiled in the Gaza Division, outlined Hamas's intentions and was known to top intelligence officials, according to a report by Kan News.
The document, titled "Detailed End-to-End Raid Training," was distributed on September 19, 2023, and described in detail the series of exercises conducted by Hamas's elite units.
(snip)
The IDF had precise information about Hamas's intentions, but due to prevailing conceptions within the security establishment and possible negligence by senior officials, the warning signs were not acted upon.
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KPN
(17,377 posts)
Dave Bowman
(7,159 posts)The August 6, 2001 memo.
https://www.politico.eu/article/attacks-will-be-spectacular-cia-war-on-terror-bush-bin-laden/
intheflow
(30,179 posts)🙁
KPN
(17,377 posts)
peppertree
(23,343 posts)
"Can you believe it, Vlad? I knew the massacre would happen, they know I knew - and the Americans still threw me twice as much money!"
"What a country."
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)Or still putting the blame on Hamas? I’ll vote for blaming the terrorists who committed the rape and murder.
iemanja
(57,757 posts)1) Obviously Hamas is responsible for the kidnappings. 2) But if Israel is to better protect its citizens in the future, it needs to correct intelligence failures.
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)Happy Hoosier
(9,535 posts)Ya see, it's all a nefarious plot by (((them)))
I'm pretty sure the Rothschilds are at the heart of this!!!! 
intheflow
(30,179 posts)That’s entirely your projection. I’m sympathetic to Jews and also recognize Netanyahu’s response has been disastrous to the point of making this seem likely, whether it happened or not.
Happy Hoosier
(9,535 posts)Only the most crass come out and directly blame the Jews. Nope. It's better to "just ask questions" or some such nonsense.
Make no mistake, one BIG implication of the OP is that Israel wanted the attack to happen and allowed it in order to justify the reponse.
It's no different than those suggesting the U.S. Government knew about and allowed 9/11.
If you wish to believe otherwise, be my guest, but IMO, it follows a very, VERY familiar pattern.
NutmegYankee
(16,478 posts)I don’t think it’s blaming Israel as an entity, it just indicates they need to fix their intelligence system.
Celerity
(54,408 posts)A pox on both their leaderships.
I take a balanced stance, unlike extremists on both sides.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)No matter where its coming from.
Celerity
(54,408 posts)all the 'blame all on one side or blame all on the other side' is the BS.
That is the real gaslighting no matter which of the extremist sides it comes from.
I stand 100 per cent behind my reply:
Happy Hoosier
(9,535 posts)... is that I think it ignores all the "false positives."
It reminds me of the folks who post about the people who "predicited" the latest market crash. Sure. And they predicted 10 others that DIDN'T happen.
It's usually much easier to connect the dots in hindsight.
obamanut2012
(29,369 posts)Isn't it interesting how a nuanced, fact-based stance (once which I agree with you on) is now "bothsiderism." That means Bibi and the IDF can't be blamed for anything, because of "bothsiderism."
Mindboggling, isn't it?
Celerity
(54,408 posts)
ExciteBike66
(2,700 posts)I mean, maybe you are capable of ignoring that, but I'm not.
obamanut2012
(29,369 posts)Intertesting having a nuanced, fact-based approach is now "bothsiderism." Nice way of saying Bibi and the IDF can't be at fault.
HandmaidsTaleUntold
(406 posts)It’s not either or. It could’ve been stopped but was allowed to happen. I recall when republicans put their hands over their eyes and ears after 911 to ignore crucial evidence of foreknowledge. These events affect all our lives. Put Hamas and Bibii in prison. Problem solved. Add Trump and I won’t complain.
Martin68
(27,749 posts)them, is there? Are you actually saying you think Israel is complicit in the attack? Do you think Netanyahu wanted an excuse to hold on to power to avoid the criminal cares against him? Interesting theory.
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)Hamas is responsible, for the attacks on October 7 and every subsequent death.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)So your theory falls flat on its face.
Irish_Dem
(81,266 posts)Someone better damn well investigate it.
It's Israel's version of Pearl Harbor and 9/11.
It has nothing to do with taking the blame away from the perpetrators of the attack.
It has everything to do with national security in the future.
The CIA and Mossad are the top intel agencies in the world.
Somebody screwed up somewhere.
In the meantime bring the attackers to justice.
A country can do things at the same time.
Tetrachloride
(9,624 posts)CIA's responsibility is not toward any one country alone.
Mossad is not a global power, so its responsibility is regional at best
brush
(61,033 posts)a coming Hamas attack. It's not news to many of us here but here's a link from just minutes ago right here on DU with more details on it.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219042047
There's no excuse for not beefing up security on the border when they new of Hamas' plans for a big attack.
Hamas must be eliminated of course, but the corrupt Netanyahu/Likud admin must go also.
womanofthehills
(10,988 posts)And then decides to move the troops to the West Bank instead of bringing in more troops. He’s a psychopath so nothing is beneath him.
dickthegrouch
(4,528 posts)Time for some political and management heads to roll.
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)And release the hostages. That seems like a reasonable first step.
TexasDem69
(2,317 posts)For over 80 excruciating days, we kept hope that they were among the living hostages. That was until Israeli intelligence and the FBI confirmed my worst fear: The terrorists had brutally murdered my mother, 70-year-old Judy Weinstein, and my father, 72-year-old Gad Haggai. They now hold their bodies captive as bargaining chips and a sick trophy to commemorate the death and destruction they wrought.
Richard D
(10,018 posts). . . that this intelligence wasn't one of dozens or hundreds?
Wednesdays
(22,603 posts)
former9thward
(33,424 posts)Wednesdays
(22,603 posts)obamanut2012
(29,369 posts)Oh, I thought you didn't like "bothesiderism"?
ananda
(35,145 posts)and it aint nuthin nice!
Martin68
(27,749 posts)
whathehell
(30,468 posts)Israel had the intelligence, which featured detailed plans of the attack, for a full year prior to its occurrence..We had nothing close to that level of specification.
Martin68
(27,749 posts)You may not remember it, but the Bush administration was fully focused at the time on a "Star Wars" defense against the "Axis of Evil." The Clinton administration warned them about the danger of bin Laden, who Clinton tried to liquidate, but failed. Bush ignored every warning. I think the similarity is unmistakable.
whathehell
(30,468 posts)The US was not in receipt of anything close to the kind of detailed information received by Israeli intelligence.
Martin68
(27,749 posts)warnings that would have led to detailed information if they had bothered to follow them up.
whathehell
(30,468 posts)the discrepancy between those two situations left them not exactly comparable, the Israeli "oversight" being far more egregious.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)Those trying to blame Israel for not preemptively acting would have lost their shit if Israel had preemptively acted...
We would have heard every excuse about how flawed the intelligence was and how it was just a ploy to take Gaza.
It's almost as if no matter what they do, Israel will be demonized for doing it. For some reason...
AZSkiffyGeek
(12,744 posts)People are upset that He let aid flow into Gaza? They wanted him to stop sending aid? They wanted Israel to go root out Hamas sooner?
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)Allow billions of aid to flow into Hamas and they get blamed for funding them. Stop the aid and you get called war criminals.
Nothing short of packing up and leaving the region entirely will make the anti-zionists/anti-semites happy.
brush
(61,033 posts)just the obvious thing, BEEFING UP 'EFFIN SECURITY ON THE ISRAELI/GAZA BORDER since they'd been warned for months that Hamas was preparing for a big attack.
That's kinda self-defense 101, the most obvious thing to do.
BUT IT WASN'T DONE.
No excuse.
yagotme
(4,135 posts)brush
(61,033 posts)whathehell
(30,468 posts)They could have "preemptively acted" by simply being prepared -- No "demonization" required.
brush
(61,033 posts)That seems to be the hard part for so many on either side...unfortunately for the Gazans, Netanyahu/Likud/the IDF have much bigger and way more potent weapons...planes, bombs, tanks, artillery, you name...and they have no hesitancy in using them, to make up for not prepping for the attack they were warned was coming..
and I think you've said it better than I.
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)Is such an ugly look.
whathehell
(30,468 posts)is the same.
BannonsLiver
(20,595 posts)Which is about as old as time.
Tetrachloride
(9,624 posts)CNN via Egypt Independent dot com
https://www.egyptindependent.com/what-did-israel-know-about-hamas-october-7-attack/
( this particular report is from December)
a report from the New York Times claimed Israel obtained Hamas’ plan for the attack more than a year in advance.
The report says Israeli officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, and deemed it too complex for the group to carry out. Other outlets, including Israeli newspaper Haaretz, have also reported the claim.
Here’s what we know about Israel and the US’ advance knowledge of the attack.
What did Israel reportedly know about the attack?
Israeli officials obtained a document describing Hamas’ battle plan for its October 7 terror attack more than a year before the militant group carried out the assault, the New York Times reported Thursday, citing documents, emails and interviews.
The roughly 40-page document did not give a date for the attack, but outlined “point by point” the kind of deadly incursion that Hamas carried out in Israeli territory in October, according to the Times, which reviewed the translated document.
Fresh fighting erupts as Israel resumes Gaza combat operations following hostage truce collapse
Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan, assessing that it would be too difficult for Hamas to carry out, according to the Times.
The document, which the Israeli authorities code-named “Jericho Wall,” detailed an assault that would overwhelm fortifications around the Gaza Strip, take over Israeli cities and target key military bases. It was followed with precision by Hamas on October 7, the Times said.
On that day, Hamas militants struck across the border from Gaza in a coordinated assault in what was the deadliest single-day assault on Israel since the country’s founding in 1948.
What has Israel’s government said about its intelligence?
The attack was widely seen as a major Israeli intelligence failure, with a number of top defense and security officials coming forward in October to take responsibility to some extent for missteps that led to the attacks.
Later that month, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu received sharp public criticism after he accused security chiefs in a later-deleted social media post of failing to warn him about the impending attack.
“On the contrary, all the defense officials … assessed that Hamas was deterred,” Netanyahu wrote at the time.
In a CNN interview earlier this month Netanyahu refused to answer whether he would take responsibility for failing to prevent the attack.
According to the Times, the “Jericho Wall” document was circulated widely among Israeli military and intelligence leaders, but it was unclear whether Netanyahu or other top political leaders saw the document.
What did the US know before the attack?
The US intelligence community produced at least two assessments, based in part on intelligence provided by Israel, warning the Biden administration of an increased risk for Palestinian-Israeli conflict in the weeks ahead of the seismic attack on southern Israel, sources familiar with the intelligence said in the days after October 7.
One update from September 28 warned, based on multiple streams of intelligence, that the terror group Hamas was poised to escalate rocket attacks across the border.
An October 5 wire from the CIA warned generally of the increasing possibility of violence by Hamas.
Then, on October 6, the day before the attack, US officials circulated reporting from Israel indicating unusual activity by Hamas — indications that are now clear: an attack was imminent.
None of the American assessments offered any tactical details or indications of the overwhelming scope, scale and sheer brutality of the operation that Hamas carried out on October 7, sources say. It is unclear if any of these US assessments were shared with Israel, which provides much of the intelligence that the US bases its reports on.
A US official told CNN Friday that the US government had no prior knowledge of the “Jericho Wall” document that the New York Times reported on that purportedly detailed Hamas’ battle plan of the October 7 attack.
“There are no indicators at this time that the intelligence community was provided the purported ‘Jericho Wall’ document reported last night by the New York Times,” the official said. “The intelligence community will certainly continue to review its information.”
How was Hamas able to hide some of its plans?
Intelligence shared with the US suggested a small cell of Hamas operatives planned the deadly surprise attack via a network of hardwired phones built into the network of tunnels underneath Gaza over a period of two years, two sources familiar with the matter told CNN in late October.
The phone lines in the tunnels allowed the operatives to communicate with one another in secret and meant they could not be tracked by Israeli intelligence officials, the sources told CNN.
During the two years of planning, the small cell operating in the tunnels used the hardwired phone lines to communicate and plan the operation but stayed dark until it was time to activate and call on hundreds of Hamas fighters to launch the October 7 attack, the sources said.
They avoided using computers or cell phones during the two-year period to evade detection by Israeli or US intelligence, the sources said.
The intelligence shared with US officials by Israel reveals how Hamas hid the planning of the operation through old-fashioned counterintelligence measures such as conducting planning meetings in person and staying off digital communications whose signals the Israelis can track in favor of the hardwired phones in the tunnels.
CNN’s Pamela Brown, Zachary Cohen, Katie Bo Lillis, Alex Marquardt and Natasha Bertrand contributed
Deep State Witch
(12,717 posts)As someone who used to contribute to those assessments, I can tell you that the leaders of HAMAS have learned from their counterparts in Al Qaeda. Don't use cellphones to communicate. Use landline phones. Or, better yet, use messengers. Ever wonder why we kept killing the #3 guy in AQ? Because Bin Laden and Zawahiri never used phones or Internet.
Tetrachloride
(9,624 posts)Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...for Israel not to have had some indication of the plan for a long time before Oct 7.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)both GAZA and the West Bank.
HandmaidsTaleUntold
(406 posts)This is the age of communication. It’s harder to hide stuff like this now. If he wanted that attack to happen he should be imprisoned forever or worse. Of course he didn’t care about the Israeli victims...they were liberal hippies. Bibi=Trump.
moondust
(21,286 posts)In the months leading up to the 7 October attacks by Hamas, they did begin to see things: practice raids, mock hostage-taking, and farmers behaving strangely on the other side of the fence.
Noa, not her real name, says they would pass information about what they were seeing to intelligence and higher-ranking officers, but were powerless to do more. "We were just the eyes," she says.
It was clear to some of these women that Hamas was planning something big - that there was, in Noa's words, a "balloon that was going to burst".
~
Celerity
(54,408 posts)https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-border-troops-women-hamas-warnings-war-october-7-benjamin-netanyahu/
TEL AVIV — Did Israel’s security chiefs brush off warnings from women border surveillance soldiers who had evidence that something was brewing in Gaza ahead of the murderous attacks by Hamas militants on October 7? That’s the explosive accusation coming from several soldiers in Israel’s predominantly female border surveillance forces — known as the tatzpitaniyot, or look-outs in Hebrew. The soldiers are telling the media their superiors did not heed warnings of unusual activity inside Gaza, such as Palestinian guerrillas training with explosives or rehearsing attacks on a replica tank and a mock observation post. Their statements to the media are piling pressure on the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who is facing a firestorm over last month’s catastrophic intelligence blunder. The country’s fabled spy services ultimately failed to detect an impending Hamas onslaught, in which an estimated 3,000 Palestinian fighters killed some 1,200 Israelis and abducted about 240.
In addition to the implications of sexism, the charges feed a sense that Netanyahu and his security services were complacent, believing they had nothing to fear from Hamas in Gaza. Netanyahu’s opponents even argue he was actively boosting Hamas in Gaza, with support from Qatar, in a risky game of “divide-and-rule” that played the Islamists off against the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. The women’s warnings, made over several months, did not correspond to the received wisdom that Hamas had been tamed. In what may transpire to be another major mistake in a series of cascading errors, the women say mainly male top commanders dismissed their concerns, insisted Hamas had no plans to go to war, and ordered them to stop being so alarmist. Known as the “eyes of the army,” the tatzpitaniyot use security cameras and sensors to monitor a 15 to 30 kilometer stretch of land they’re each responsible for. The surveillance includes any small changes in activity, including farmers altering their routines. The work requires great patience, concentration and hours spent monitoring screens.
Frontline testimony
The tatzpitaniyot, especially those at a base in Nahal Oz, one of several kibbutzim overrun on October 7, reported unusual signs along the Gaza border. The activity was not just minor, and included Hamas sending up drones several times a day in the weeks leading up to the attack. One of the soldiers, identified only only by her first name Ilana, told the Haaretz newspaper they observed Hamas fighters training for assaults. “A month and a half before the war, we saw that in one of the Hamas training camps they had built an exact, scaled model of an observer’s position, like the one we operate. They started training there with drones to hit the [machine gun] shooter,” Ilana said. “In the last two months, they started sending up drones every day, sometimes several times a day, right near the border, some 300 meters from the fence, and sometimes less than that,” she added.
Other tatzpitaniyot reported that Hamas gunmen were rehearsing attacks on armored vehicles using a replica of a Merkava Mark 4 tank, and that Hamas fighters were digging holes and placing explosives along the border. Israel’s Kan public broadcaster and the country’s Channel 12 television have aired interviews with border lookouts complaining they were ignored and were told to stop raising alarms. The interviews are adding to claims last month by two women surveillance soldiers, Yael Rotenberg and Maya Desiatnik, who told Kan that in the months before the attack, they had flagged a lot of border behavior that worried them. Both were based at Nahal Oz, where 20 tatzpitaniyot were killed on October 7. Desiatnik was one of only two surveillance soldiers at the base on the day who was not killed or abducted. “It’s infuriating. We saw what was happening, we told them about it, and we were the ones who were murdered,” she said.
snip
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)spend the rest of his miserable life in prison.
Deep State Witch
(12,717 posts)I remember reading on DU several months ago that an assessment was written by a female IDF officer and presented up the chain of command. They blew it off because they didn't think that Hamas had the capability - and because of sexism against the female officer.
Tetrachloride
(9,624 posts)October 9, 2023
Egypt intelligence official says Israel ignored repeated warnings of ‘something big’
Mounting questions over Israel’s massive intelligence failure to anticipate and prepare for a surprise Hamas assault were compounded Monday when an Egyptian intelligence official said that Jerusalem had ignored repeated warnings that the Gaza-based terror group was planning “something big” — which included an apparent direct notice from Cairo’s intelligence minister to the prime minister.
The Egyptian official said Egypt, which often serves as a mediator between Israel and Hamas, had spoken repeatedly with the Israelis about “something big,” without elaborating.
He said Israeli officials were focused on the West Bank and played down the threat from Gaza. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government is made up of supporters of West Bank settlers who have demanded a security crackdown there in the face of a rising tide of violence over the last 18 months.
“We have warned them an explosion of the situation is coming, and very soon, and it would be big. But they underestimated such warnings,” the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn’t authorized to discuss the content of sensitive intelligence discussions with the media, told The Associated Press.
Rebl2
(17,742 posts)I read something like that not long after October 7. I wonder if Netanyahu knew this and decided to do nothing to prevent it.
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,869 posts)Bibi ignored Hamas and in fact encouraged Quatar to fund Hamas
Hassler
(4,924 posts)Mountainguy
(2,145 posts)Intelligence was telling them that Hamas was doing training for a raid. It didn't tell them that was going to happen on Oct 7th or where it would be targeted at.
The article also doesn't consider the amount of intelligence that is constantly coming in that Hamas wants to or is planning some kind of action. Same with 9/11. Knowing somebody wants to attack you doesn't equal letting it happen.
Uncle Joe
(65,136 posts)into Israel for the first time in history.
How Jared Kushner And The Trump Admin Traded U.S. Foreign Policy For $2 Billion
(snip)
(September 6, 2023 / JNS)
Jared Kushner’s Affinity Partners private equity fund, which is primarily backed by Saudi Arabia’s sovereign wealth fund, is set to acquire a $150 million stake in an Israeli automotive services company, marking the first Saudi-backed investment in the Jewish state.
Kushner’s fund will buy a 15% stake in the car and credit division of Shlomo Holdings, Bloomberg reported on Wednesday, citing financial filings.
(snip)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/11663259
Thanks for the thread WhiskeyGrinder