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Towlie

(5,577 posts)
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 10:35 AM Jun 2024

If President Biden won the coin toss then why didn't he choose to get the last word?

Trump gets the final word at CNN debate after coin flip

The coin landed on the Biden campaign’s pick — tails — which meant his campaign got to choose whether it wanted to select the president’s podium position or the order of closing statements.

Biden’s campaign chose to select the right podium position, which means the Democratic president will be on the right side of television viewers’ screens and his Republican rival will be on viewers’ left.

Trump’s campaign then chose for the former president to deliver the last closing statement, which means Biden will go first at the conclusion of the debate.


It seems to me that podium position is trivial, especially when compared to getting a final word after Trump inevitably closes with a Gish gallop that would make the ghost of Gish himself blush with envy.

Edit: The Daily Beast offers an explanation based upon "the theory of stagecraft".

38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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If President Biden won the coin toss then why didn't he choose to get the last word? (Original Post) Towlie Jun 2024 OP
It's his choice- I think he knows more than anyone else. we can do it Jun 2024 #1
Speculation is that Biden will spring something previously unreported but pretty damaging at the end and hlthe2b Jun 2024 #2
This would seem to be a nice trigger Submariner Jun 2024 #15
I can understand why this hasn't been elaborated on in great detail EYESORE 9001 Jun 2024 #28
I think it could be the opposite. Biden goes first and lays the trap early and trump goes off the rails Ninga Jun 2024 #16
Hopefully. But, I was only speculating on the choice of going first, rather than last in closing statements.. hlthe2b Jun 2024 #17
I think it will be... 2naSalit Jun 2024 #34
Trump's idiotic ranting will be a lasting oasis Jun 2024 #38
It's called "Giving Trump Enough Rope." Aristus Jun 2024 #3
For independents, letting tscf prove he's an idiot is a good tactic. lindysalsagal Jun 2024 #9
It allows President Biden odins folly Jun 2024 #4
Most Americans speak word salad. Would they notice? Marcus IM Jun 2024 #26
Too early for the last word JI7 Jun 2024 #5
Likely getting in trumps head.... he will be stweing over getting second seat getagrip_already Jun 2024 #6
I think Trump babbling like a crazy insane idiot will Emile Jun 2024 #7
Left-to-right readers tend to scan an image starting on the left and settling on the right. Ocelot II Jun 2024 #8
There is a point to that but most of the debate the cameras are just focused on the person speaking. former9thward Jun 2024 #20
Yes birdographer Jun 2024 #21
I trust Joe's team - period. NoMoreRepugs Jun 2024 #10
I trust Biden and his team know what they are doing. SocialDemocrat61 Jun 2024 #11
No audience, cut mics, and no teleprompters... agingdem Jun 2024 #30
Why Question Biden and His Team's Decision? Indykatie Jun 2024 #12
Because on an internet message board, people think they know better Ocelot II Jun 2024 #23
I think Biden mercuryblues Jun 2024 #13
My guess, Joe wanted the people to hear his closing remarks Joinfortmill Jun 2024 #14
They probably feel that the final impression carries the most weight. GoCubsGo Jun 2024 #18
He may have hearing problems in his left ear. former9thward Jun 2024 #19
He gets to go first and set the tone, pace, subject... Kid Berwyn Jun 2024 #22
got to choose whether it wanted to select the president's podium position OR the order of closing statements. ratchiweenie Jun 2024 #24
I figure the Biden campaign did a cost/benefit analysis of both options Torchlight Jun 2024 #25
More people watch the beginning than the end. Also, it's not the "last word" unblock Jun 2024 #27
I wonder how well... Think. Again. Jun 2024 #29
Since Biden is going to have to rebut a slew of nonsense from Trump I think there is something to be said Liberal In Texas Jun 2024 #31
It's probably a sure thing that Donnie Will be so wound up and frightened he'll Ping Tung Jun 2024 #32
I don't think it matters much Renew Deal Jun 2024 #33
Others have stated some good reasons here. One other... WestMichRad Jun 2024 #35
The final image of Dump floundering and festering in his own shit will stick with 'ya Blue Owl Jun 2024 #36
Hm. On which side of TFG's head does the shiny bare head shine through his bad comb-over the most? NotASurfer Jun 2024 #37

hlthe2b

(113,950 posts)
2. Speculation is that Biden will spring something previously unreported but pretty damaging at the end and
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 10:39 AM
Jun 2024

thereby seek to "trigger" Trump in wild refutation in his last "time at bat."

I hope it is something this strategic.

EYESORE 9001

(29,727 posts)
28. I can understand why this hasn't been elaborated on in great detail
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 12:50 PM
Jun 2024

National security and all. Personally, I’d be worried if I got on the bad side of the CIA or any other intelligence agency.

Ninga

(9,012 posts)
16. I think it could be the opposite. Biden goes first and lays the trap early and trump goes off the rails
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 11:44 AM
Jun 2024

right away and by the time the end arrives, it matters not who speaks last.
What do you think?

hlthe2b

(113,950 posts)
17. Hopefully. But, I was only speculating on the choice of going first, rather than last in closing statements..
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 11:50 AM
Jun 2024

I would prefer your scenario which would present lots of clips that even the most oblivious MAGA Fox viewer might ultimately see and have to "take in."

All that I know is that I'm apprehensive and beyond anxious to see Biden smack him down.

2naSalit

(102,780 posts)
34. I think it will be...
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 01:34 PM
Jun 2024

Both. Biden will have him ranting from the opening statements to closing. The last thing to be seen will be a tirade like nobody ever seen, emitting from the orange face of anger.

That will leave a mark.

Aristus

(72,179 posts)
3. It's called "Giving Trump Enough Rope."
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 10:41 AM
Jun 2024

His demented cult followers will gobble up whatever incomprehensible word salad he spews out. But anyone not inclining toward President Biden quite yet, and planning to stay home on Election Day, may change their minds and vote against Trump based on that.

odins folly

(596 posts)
4. It allows President Biden
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 10:44 AM
Jun 2024

To make compelling arguments and statements to then be followed by the rambling and confusing word salad of the lunatic…

 

Marcus IM

(3,001 posts)
26. Most Americans speak word salad. Would they notice?
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 12:47 PM
Jun 2024

Americans identifying word salad is akin to a fish searching for water.

getagrip_already

(17,802 posts)
6. Likely getting in trumps head.... he will be stweing over getting second seat
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 10:45 AM
Jun 2024

My guess is that is tiny's preferred dominant position. Maybe he hears or sees better on that side, but someone has probably noticed it is his go to position when on stage with other podiums.

Letting him go last will just let the contrast set in.

First, a worldly, family first message to the heart of our democracy. Then an unhinged rant about batteries, sharks, snakes, and poisoned blood.

What are the chances stoopid will be able to stay on message, after 45 minutes, with no teleprompter?

I think they know what they are doing.

Ocelot II

(130,524 posts)
8. Left-to-right readers tend to scan an image starting on the left and settling on the right.
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 11:04 AM
Jun 2024

That means that if the image on viewers' TVs shows Trump on the left side of the screen and Biden on the right, their eyes will tend to track away from Trump and settle on Biden. It's a subtle but important visual design concept and it means that for the full 90 minutes viewers will tend to be looking more at Biden, all other elements being equal.

former9thward

(33,424 posts)
20. There is a point to that but most of the debate the cameras are just focused on the person speaking.
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 11:58 AM
Jun 2024

Veery little has both participants.

birdographer

(2,937 posts)
21. Yes
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 12:02 PM
Jun 2024

For some reason, I want Biden on the right. I can't even identify why that is, but when I imagine him on the left, it feels wrong. Maybe it has to do with what you say, I visually settle on the right. Strange. I feel certain that Biden's people have excellent reasons for choosing that over going first or last.

SocialDemocrat61

(7,645 posts)
11. I trust Biden and his team know what they are doing.
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 11:10 AM
Jun 2024

Let Trump have the last word and let him go off the rails with some incoherent rant.

agingdem

(8,847 posts)
30. No audience, cut mics, and no teleprompters...
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 12:59 PM
Jun 2024

Trump's last words (I wish!) will be a disjointed series of babble...self-praise, lies, conspiracies, insults, Hunter Biden...he will accuse Biden of orchestrating his multiple convictions, insist he won the 2020 election, and attack Joe on immigration blah blah blah..a Trump mini rally for an audience of none..great!


.

Indykatie

(3,868 posts)
12. Why Question Biden and His Team's Decision?
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 11:11 AM
Jun 2024

Biden let Trump go last for a reason. It may be that Biden wants the last memory from the debate to be Trump going on one of his ridiculous batsh*t crazy rants. I saw on DU where even Fox cut away from his last rant. For many viewers it will be the first time being exposed to the unfiltered declining Trump. Trust me, they won't soon forget. I'm still not convinced that Trump will show up though and all our hand wringing will have been for naught.

Ocelot II

(130,524 posts)
23. Because on an internet message board, people think they know better
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 12:29 PM
Jun 2024

about the thing in question than the people who are actually doing the thing.

mercuryblues

(16,409 posts)
13. I think Biden
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 11:18 AM
Jun 2024

Will use his closing ststement for thank yous and a positive appeal to voters. Then say something that will get under trump's thin skin.

Trump will then go off on an unhinged tangent. That is what will stick in voters mind.

Joinfortmill

(21,162 posts)
14. My guess, Joe wanted the people to hear his closing remarks
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 11:30 AM
Jun 2024

People are going to shut off Trump.

GoCubsGo

(34,911 posts)
18. They probably feel that the final impression carries the most weight.
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 11:52 AM
Jun 2024

And, they expect the final impression to be Trump being a blithering, ranting, raving incoherent lunatic. Which should turn off lots of people to him.

Kid Berwyn

(24,392 posts)
22. He gets to go first and set the tone, pace, subject...
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 12:28 PM
Jun 2024

...and drop an ear-worm into dip's cauliflower like head-holes. For instance...

"You are not running to be President of the United States, you are running to stay out of prison."

And then:

"I am running to continue building the nation -- helping young people get a start in life, not bankruptcy in the pursuit of a college degree; helping working people get ahead by creating manufacturing jobs and encouraging union membership; helping our seniors feel secure their Social Security and Medicare will always be here to help them..."

By the time the tee vee comes back to Trump, the only thing in his mind will be sharks, golf, strippers and e-boat batteries.

ratchiweenie

(8,215 posts)
24. got to choose whether it wanted to select the president's podium position OR the order of closing statements.
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 12:34 PM
Jun 2024

He got to choose podium position OR final word. I assume that there is lots of research on podium position and how it affects peoples perception of the speaker. Standing on the right and walking to the left as you speak seems more natural.

Torchlight

(6,822 posts)
25. I figure the Biden campaign did a cost/benefit analysis of both options
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 12:37 PM
Jun 2024

(and very likely, also options we haven't even imaged), and decided on a best course strategy, providing for any number of oddities from the trump campaign.

My guess is Biden's campaign staff is on the ball, aware of the triggers, trip-wires, and land-mines that we don't as amateurs perceive, while weighing and gaming out every possible scenario depending on which Mr. trump shows up that night.

unblock

(56,198 posts)
27. More people watch the beginning than the end. Also, it's not the "last word"
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 12:50 PM
Jun 2024

Yes it may be the last words of the debate, but the entire campaign is what matters, and there's plenty of time to respond to any crap Donnie spews in his conclusion of the debate.

 

Think. Again.

(22,456 posts)
29. I wonder how well...
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 12:54 PM
Jun 2024

...tv companies track viewing times, and if they can tell when a substantial portion of the viewing audience switches off the program?

If so, it would be fun if the headlines the next morning screamed about how most of the audience shut off their tv's just after Biden finished his closing statement.

Liberal In Texas

(16,270 posts)
31. Since Biden is going to have to rebut a slew of nonsense from Trump I think there is something to be said
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 01:08 PM
Jun 2024

for starting by being able to talk to the audience about the reasonable and good things four more years of the Biden administration will do for them.

Ping Tung

(4,370 posts)
32. It's probably a sure thing that Donnie Will be so wound up and frightened he'll
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 01:24 PM
Jun 2024

outdo himself in exhibiting what a childish asshole he is. I expect Joe to be grinning and rolling his eyes during the diatribe.

Biden's a smart politician in using Trump as THE Issue in this election. 90 minutes of seeing Joe as the wise, patient, presidential man explaining his positions vs the slogan repeating blowhard will pay off.

I wouldn't be surprised to politely ask Don to please clarify his position(s) on abortion rights and medicinal bleach in his summation.

WestMichRad

(3,252 posts)
35. Others have stated some good reasons here. One other...
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 01:35 PM
Jun 2024

… is that there is another scheduled debate, in which things like positioning and who gets the last word are likely to be reversed in the interest of fairness. Biden will get the closing words then.

NotASurfer

(2,369 posts)
37. Hm. On which side of TFG's head does the shiny bare head shine through his bad comb-over the most?
Mon Jun 24, 2024, 02:28 PM
Jun 2024

Somebody will throw a tantrum the next day if the discussion is about his balding head blinding the cameras instead of all the loony toon comments intended to suck the oxygen out of the room. If the takeaway is that President Biden has more hair, I think there will be a meltdown. Vanity is a brutal mistress.

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