Is Denmark as horrifying as people say?

[orangecrush]

Is Denmark as horrifying as people say?
"I visited Denmark not that long ago. It was the worst place I ever visited.

The bus drivers were helpful

People were out and riding bikes EVERYWHERE and I mean EVERYWHERE to work, with their families. etc

There was no homeless

The food was fresh and amazing. Lots of fish, cheese and fresh bread

The women were absolutely beautiful, I could not find an overweight person if I tried.

Anytime I asked for directions, someone was willing to help and in English!

The city was clean and the only smell was food from the venders and ocean waves.

They have universal health care so if I got hurt I knew I would be well taken care of.

They have the BEST public schools in the world because they did away with both charter, and private schools while standardizing education, combined with free college, so everyone was inviting, worldly, and well educated.

No one wanted to immigrate to the USA after I made jokes about me wanting to stay there.

The only time I ever heard anyone saying anything negative was when I went to visit the famous mermaid in the harbor which comes from the native story in which Disney made the movie “The Little Mermaid” from. They made a sly remark how Disney loves the public domain in how they love to steal other works but sue when people use the same thing. They hated how Disney destroyed the story becasue she actually dies in the end and the crests of foam is lapping on the shore is supposed to represent her.

Other than that it was complete horror show! I can not wait to go back and have some more of that incredible fresh food!"

https://www.quora.com/

[senseandsensibility]

1. The part about the public schools really got to me as

a public school teacher. Of course they are too smart to fall for "charter schools" there. I wish even some Dems in the U.S. were as well.

[orangecrush]

2. Agree

[essaynnc]

28. I've always wondered about America's Schools....

Ever since I had a project on High School education in college.

So we're the smartest country in the world, we can split the atom, send men to the moon, and travel from on end of the country to the other in just a few hours.....

But we can't figure out how to educate our youth. Oh, except if you go to a private school. or you live in a wealthy part of town. or you're rich enough to hire a tutor for your children.

We have teacher's colleges that focus on how to educate, but the best we can come up with is....Standardized Tests? I think we're smarter than that; no, I KNOW that we're smarter than that. We don't have good education in this county because a smart electorate makes smart decisions! And too much history and reasoning and book smarts and common sense would shake the very foundations of our current social/ political/ judicial/ economic system.

And that my friends, WILL NOT DO !

[soldierant]

61. Since education is managed by states, and within states, by districts,

there is a huge gap between the best and the worst. If Stanford s any example, go look at schools in areas close to prestigious universities. I don't know whether it's done be professors getting on to school boards, or just be being demanding, but it seems to work

[NGeorgian]

47. Go watch Michael Moore's "Where to invade next"!

You will love it.

[kskiska]

75. I was about to recommend that. It's a real eye-opener.

[bucolic_frolic]

3. Maybe everyone "hates" the Dutch a bit because it really is a very wealthy place

Seeing as how they are smart, thrifty (for centuries), and have some of the oldest stock markets and banks in the world. They own a lot of things.

[we can do it]

9. Danish, not Dutch

[bucolic_frolic]

12. wow, you'd think i'd have that figured out by now

I grew up in NY, my mom had Danish friends. The lowland countries are all a blur on my mental map.

[dameatball]

50. It happens to all of us. Actually, my neighbor is Dutch. Wonderful lady and indeed "thrifty."

But yes, Denmark sounds wonderful.

[Celerity]

70. Denmark is up here (I live in Sweden) in Scandinavia, not the Low Countries (Belgium, The Netherlands, and Luxembourg).

[Hermit-The-Prog]

82. Sweden? That's where they make all those watches and have abominable snow critters

and meatballs. Right?

[homegirl]

100. Yes,

on meat balls. No on watches and snow critters!

[viva la]

51. The Dutch have it pretty great too.

[Sneederbunk]

79. They saw their doors in half.

[viva la]

90. And they invite you out and make you pay for your own dinner!

[Metaphorical]

53. Dutch are awful people too

Really. I've been to Amsterdam, Rotterdam and several other Dutch cities several times over the years, and I tell you, the bike riding gets to you, their absolutely terrible food (best pizza I've ever had, actually), their innate rudeness (even more than the Canadians, eh?), their paltry museums (with nobodies like Rembrandt, Holbein, and that weirdo Van Gogh), their abysmal transportation system (there is almost no place in Europe you can't get to from Dutch trains), their absmal educational system (I've had the privilege of speaking at Delft, and was definitely humbled there) and on and on. Twist my arm to go back. Please.

I've long had a suspicion that the vast majority of magats have never been outside their state, let alone out of the country.

[EastBayGuy]

60. but those Dutch pancakes

[Mr. Ected]

85. As punishment for their great intelligence and demeanor, I sent my sons to study in the Netherlands

They abhor the casual way of life, the abundance of good food, the efficiency of their public transportation, their proficiency in English, and so many other things I can't remember because we're all so angry about it.

[viva la]

91. In that Amsterdam museum, on the floor with the Rembrandts...

I truly understood the term "an embarrassment of riches."

[Traurigkeit]

55. Netherlands own huge parts of the US

[barbaraann]

4. The Danes are not perfect. They have mistreated the native Inuit population of colonized Greenland.

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/73b5882d346d4218b623902f87baebe5

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2022/01/world/greenland-denmark-social-experiment-cmd-idnty-intl-cnnphotos/

[Think. Again.]

6. Oh, not perfect.

[paleotn]

26. I bet they don't pass laws stating that mistreatment can't be taught in public schools.

...a la, Florida. If you're looking for perfection, you'll never find it. If you're willing to settle with "not so bad", the Nordics, Canada, Portugal and several other places have you covered. They are what America could be if we weren't such goddamn money grubbers and half our populace could extract their heads from their collective asses.

[barbaraann]

63. I do know all of that.

However, I can still be horrified by the what the Catholic Church did to indigenous Canadian children, how the Swedes have treated the Sami, and how the Portuguese upper class molested the orphans from Casa Pia.

My question is: Has there been remediation of these historical wrongs? That is why we need to be aware of the stumbles of good people.

[homegirl]

65. How have

the Swedes treated the Sami?

[barbaraann]

89. Here's an excerpt from one article:

The Sami are recognized by the Swedish government as an indigenous population. However, Sweden has refused to ratify the ILO Convention concerning Indigenous and Tribal Peoples in Independent Countries. The UN has criticized Sweden several times for the mistreatment of the Sami population, in issues of language, culture, and land rights. One of the significant incongruities between the national legislation protecting indigenous populations and the ILO convention is that the convention recognizes land rights to a larger extent. The Sami land rights that are currently recognized in Sweden tend to be tied to reindeer husbandry. Reindeer herding is only one of the traditional Sami industries and only a minority of Sami has reindeer. The land rights of Sami who have traditionally relied on hunting and fishing is poorly recognized. In fact, Sweden has one of the most intensive forest industries in the world, and historically the forest and timber industry has been very important for both the economy and the development of the Swedish nation-state. The forest industry has infringed on traditional Sami land and today the state-owned forest company Sveaskog is in conflict with the Sami population over logging in Sapmi. The Sami Parliament of Sweden has pointed out that the logging does not only negatively impact the Sami population but the living conditions of mankind in general. Last year WWP released a report about the Swedish forest industry that warned that the biological diversity and ecosystem were in danger. The report stated that 90 percent of the “red-listed” species present were negatively affected by the forest industry and that if there is no change they are expected to die out.

The hate directed toward the Sami population in Sweden increased after the so-called Girjas verdict. Girjas, a Sami village, took the Swedish state to court in 2009 over a dispute over land use. The government previously administered who could hunt and fish in a particular area, but the Girjas was seeking the right to be the sole administrator in this. In 2013 the court in Gällivare sided with the village. However, the state appealed the verdict and the case went to the Hovrätten, the second level of court in Sweden. That court stated that the Girjas had “more right” to administer the hunting and fishing rights than the government, but that the Sami village could not do so without the approval of the state. This verdict was also appealed and the case therefore went to the highest level of court in Sweden, Högsta domstolen. There it was decided in 2020 that the village has the sole right to administer hunting and fishing rights based on “prescription from time.” One of the reasons this case was so important is that it forces us to ask who the land belongs to. The highest court of Sweden recognized the rights of the local Sami people but did not settle the question indefinitely. However, the verdict was celebrated as a victory for the Sami population as it recognizes their right to not only be on the land but to decide by who and how it can be used.

https://theowp.org/reports/increased-hate-against-swedens-indigenous-people/

[homegirl]

96. Thank you for this information,

I frequently read Swedish newspapers online but I must have missed coverage of this issue. When I lived in Sweden the Sami were revered. Very sad that they are now being treated as our Native Americans were and there are parallels!

[barbaraann]

97. You're welcome, but I'm sorry it is so sad for you.

I think I watched a detective show a while ago that brought up the issue and I researched it.

[paleotn]

93. Then you'll spend all of your time horrified.

Humans do what humans do. No one is clean. Not, not one.

[barbaraann]

94. I do spend a lot time worrying and being horrified, but I have tried to make the world better my entire adult life.

It's just who I am and luckily my husband puts up with it. Right now I spend almost all of my free time with a youth activity program.

My husband just saw this and said "You go, girl."

[homegirl]

98. Yes,

one of the most rewarding experiences of my life was working with a neighborhood group to have a Youth Center built in our neighborhood.

Good Luck!!

[barbaraann]

99. Thank you!

I just finished some editing for the organization.

[CurtEastPoint]

5. Years ago Oprah (yes, I know) interviewed a few Danish women asking about how 'happy' Denmark is.....

and many of those topics were discussed: education, family/work balance, healthcare. I will never forget this. Oprah asked, 'Don't you worry about being called socialists?" And one woman without hesitation said, 'We call it being civilized.'

[TheKentuckian]

16. The really wealthy person who brought us such wonderful influences like Dr Phil and Dr Oz?

I cannot imagine how that would happen!

[rpannier]

40. Jenny Mc Carthy --the anti-vax queen

and Suzanne Sommers pushing her hormone therapy and claiming that chemotherapy was useless

[eppur_se_muova]

20. Because that is exactly what reichwingers would call them. It needed to be asked, and it allowed a perfect response. nt

[Hekate]

46. She was asking on behalf of the undereducated & brainwashed American masses...

That’s why. And if anyone actually listened, they’d have food for thought. Wouldn’t they?

[orangecrush]

10. THIS

[oldsoftie]

72. Even their leaders will tell us they are NOT Socialist countries.

[LAS14]

7. Belgian health care for foreigners is worth mentioning.

I fell at the Brussels airport when I couldn't see my foot for luggage at the end of the moving walkway. I fell backward and started bleeding copiously, although otherwise I felt OK. I was right next to our boarding area and people stopped the walkway and helped me up to a chair in the waiting area. In no time two medical personnel showed up and stapled up my cut right there and gave me a piece of paper I could use if anyone tried to stop me from getting on a plane. I didn't have to sign anything at all. I wasn't billed for anything. It was amazing.

[Butterflylady]

37. Ain't that the truth..

[nilram]

67. Over??? On!

[IbogaProject]

22. I got one on you

I spent a whole month in a Dutch hospital. 18, 19 days in icu. I had double staff pneumonia. Then two more weeks in a regular room. The entire bill was under 20,000 Euros, in 2001. The bill got canceled before I ever finished getting the travel policy to pay for it. No system is perfect but just getting to treating everyone without worrying too much about the bill really streamlines health care. The only real reason national health care never passed here is racism, that is what stopped it in the 40s. Them the GOP then took over the southern bigot cohort after that and are still opposing it.

[malaise]

11. Haha

Sent this to my folks in Denmark

Always have a good time in that happy country.

[spooky3]

14. But their tennis player's shorts are too short

😁😁😁

[malaise]

15. You win the thread with

Rune😂😀😂

[spooky3]

19. Hee hee! And you might like this: Rublev surprises a fan

?feature=shared

[malaise]

23. That was as lovely

As Denmark. So sweet.😀

[Bev54]

35. My ex is from Denmark and he always wore a speedo for swimming (which he did a lot of)

I was always a bit embarrassed but that is what they wore there.

[spooky3]

39. I view speedos for men as essentially the same as most swimwear for

Last edited Tue Jun 25, 2024, 12:49 PM - Edit history (1)

Women—very revealing.

[Voltaire2]

77. The male vs female minimal bathing suit

dialectic is, to put it simply, grossly sexist.

It is very related to the frequency and acceptance of female nudity in cinema, frequently with no particular relevance to plot, compared to the infrequency and discomfort over male nudity in cinema.

If a penis pops up in a movie the shockwaves are audible.

[thucythucy]

86. I agree with you about the sexism inherent in depictions

of female vs. male nudity.

However, I couldn't resist posting this in response as another possible part of the explanation as to why people are shocked at the sight.

For context, if you haven't seen it, "Red Dwarf" is a BBC comedy that takes place in the far future. Kryton is an android that has somehow become human, and has some questions about his new body. Sit through it all if you can, it's worth a few laughs.

My favorite line: "The last chicken in the shop look."

Best wishes.

[Fiendish Thingy]

13. Visited Copenhagen and a couple smaller towns a few years ago- lovely place

As in many EU countries, there has been a rightward shift in Denmark’s politics in recent years, mainly around immigrants, but not as extreme as in other countries. IIRC, they have the highest average tax rate in the EU, around 40%, but also some of the best services and benefits.

For folks interested in Danish culture and entertainment, I highly recommend the Netflix series “Rita”.

[paleotn]

31. As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for.

Sweden's business startup rate is 4 times that of the US per the OECD. The reason is simple. If your business fails, you can still eat, have a roof over your head and get health care. In the US, it could mean financial ruin and maybe a struggle for those. People can take business risks knowing that the government, i.e., the people of Sweden, have their back. And it pays off handsomely for everyone. It's not cheap but it works.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/09/sweden-startups/541413/

[Evolve Dammit]

71. Sounds like a real s hole country alright.

[LudwigPastorius]

18. Sounds like the People's Republic of Scandinavia has indoctrinated you, citizen.

You just need 6 hours of junk food and reality TV a day for 6 weeks, and you'll be right as rain in no time!

[Drum]

24. That's just how I remember it!

[Warpy]

25. People who say they hated going to Denmark most likely saw The Little Mermaid

statue in Copenhagen.

She's black.

[Hekate]

48. Silly person -- she's green

[Warpy]

52. Sea water has turned her more black

than verdigris green. The surface discoloration is highly soluble in water.

All the images I tried to gank were either dark brown or black.

Still, black or Nav'i, that lady aint white.

[Hekate]

56. She's Danish. There's sketches of mer-people across the Seven Seas, wherever humans are seafarers

Oddly enough, the sketches vary as much as humans do. The Indonesian ones are particularly exotic, iirc.

I knew the Hans Christian Andersen story quite well, and was really, really irked at what Disney did to it. Andersen’s mermaid lived a much darker tale, and during those years I gave it a fair amount of thought. She gave up everything to be with the prince — she could not speak, and every step she took was in pain because she gave up her natural form. He never even noticed her presence. Finally she died of sorrow on the beach and transformed into seafoam.

My then preteen daughter was wildly infatuated with the Disney version — but it was no use being a killjoy.

[Warpy]

58. The story is Danish

She was a mermaid, not a Dane, and could have hailed from off the coast of Nigeria. Or Fiji. Or Australia.

[Hekate]

59. Whatever version makes you happy. The author was a Dane with a tragic frame of mind...

… (ever read The Little Match Girl? ) . Disney loved bubbly girls and gave them happy endings where all their dreams came true. My preteen daughter adored Ariel.

And so it goes.

[Marcuse]

73. Choose

[Warpy]

84. HAHAHAHA!

Thanks!

[GenThePerservering]

27. How about the men - were they beautiful, too? nt

[lanlady]

29. I'd move to Copenhagen in a flash if I had the means

I loved the city, especially the cycling culture and safe environment. Worst thing that seems to happen there is someone getting their bike stolen. People are healthy and happy and normal. I much preferred it to Stockholm, where the people (and climate) are a good deal colder.

[denvine]

30. I know, right! It's awful!

I just returned from Finland and they are just like the Danes! How does anyone put up with it! Intelligence, great support, healthy, socially conscious, environmentally conscious, blah, blah, blah!!!! What an awful place! I don't know how anyone could live there, well, except maybe me! Hehe! Such an impressive country! However, on the bright side, we have our guns, christo-fascist, best healthcare in the world that might bankrupt you and education you could be paying off for the rest of your life, oh, let's not forget, we have Donald Trump! Go USA!

[spike jones]

32. This post was self-deleted prior to posting. n/t

[calimary]

33. Well, when you put it that way...

That kind of horror show I’d like! A LOT.

[OMGWTF]

34. Our son and d-i-l just got back from Copenhagen. I think they're ready to move there.

[marybourg]

36. Homogeneous populations. Everyone is seen as "family". When "outsiders", ie.

immigrants or native populations appear, the Danes become just like us and other Europeans.

[Joinfortmill]

38. Yup, love their model of government/living.

[DFW]

68. Some of their most popular TV dramas are also shown here in Germany

They almost always deal with sleaze and corruption at their highest levels of government.

They are anything but immune.

[Dan]

41. The sad part is American propaganda that we are the best of everything...

One of the reasons that we have the best health care that only the well-off can afford; And that health care is tied to our employment until we reach retirement age.

But we do have the biggest and strongest military that the world has ever seen that we all hope will never have to be put to use; So every time I hear about a new weapons development, I think of the schools, hospitals and other infrastructure that went by the wayside.

We have the bestest politicians that money (or lobbies) can buy; but we do call it a democracy where our SC has defined that money buys free speech;

And we have a class of people that few other countries have - our corporations are people too; they vote with their money and eventually we will elect a corporation for president.

Those other countries just wish they could be like us (smile).

[orangecrush]

104. +1

[onecaliberal]

42. Looking at Portugal. My family is from there.

[orangecrush]

54. Looks like you get it

[brooklynite]

43. Disney didn't steal the Little Mermaid...

...and as public domain, anyone else can use the story.

[Silent3]

44. I have heard it said that there is something rotten in the state of Denmark...

...but I'm not sure if that comes from a reliable source.

[DFW]

45. You see these things posted from time to time.

Good for a laugh, but moving there, like moving to Germany, where "Takeyerpick" says everything is free, requires dealing with reality.

The bus drivers were helpful
True, they are.

People were out and riding bikes EVERYWHERE and I mean EVERYWHERE to work, with their families. etc
When the weather sucks, which is often, they ride their bikes a lot less. Danes can get pneumonia, too.

There was no homeless
Look harder. Yes, there are.

The food was fresh and amazing. Lots of fish, cheese and fresh bread.
There is great food in Denmark--if you can afford it, and know where to look (just like New York City or New Orleans)

The women were absolutely beautiful, I could not find an overweight person if I tried.
Sure you can--go to the nearest hotel frequented by American tourists! (It's true, the Danes eat healthier and eat less. At their prices, I can understand!).

Anytime I asked for directions, someone was willing to help and in English!
They teach English in schools there from something like the 4th grade onward. And if you ASKED in English, DUH, of course they answered you in English. If you're in Denmark, why not be polite and try asking in Danish? It's still arrogant as hell to go to another country and start speaking a foreign language (such as English) without at least asking if the person you talk to understands it. Is it OK for someone to come to your town and start speaking Danish to everyone without asking if they understand it?

The city was clean and the only smell was food from the venders and ocean waves.
They are good about that, although their "tolerance" of some cultures has led some parts of København to become less clean.

They have universal health care so if I got hurt I knew I would be well taken care of.
You would be, but don't think your care was "free." If you didn't pay for it, the Danish taxpayers did.

They have the BEST public schools in the world because they did away with both charter, and private schools while standardizing education, combined with free college, so everyone was inviting, worldly, and well educated.
Their education system IS better, but again, it isn't "free." The Danes just choose to pay for it by completely different means than we do.

No one wanted to immigrate to the USA after I made jokes about me wanting to stay there.
I know Danes who have moved to the USA and never want to return. Some people just find what they feel fulfills their life elsewhere. I don't expect them to adapt to my desires any more than I would accept being made to adapt to theirs.

By the way, just like with my next door neighbor, the Netherlands, the fact that they all learn English as a foreign language from childhood on does NOT mean that any clown from another country is encouraged to just start speaking English without asking if the person they are speaking to understands it. THEIR language remains Dansk (Danish), and it is what everyone is expected to speak there unless you explain that you are just visiting, and don't understand their language. Moving to Denmark without learning Danish is about as well received as someone moving from Denmark to the USA speaking only Danish. The "they all speak English" line is only legit if you're a visiting tourist. THEIR language is Danish, and if you're going to spend any kind of extended time there, you need to learn it. Added hint--written, it's not even so very difficult. Their pronunciation, however, was best described by a member of the Danish Parliament: "our language is regarded by our neighbors as a disease of the throat."

[Iris]

57. I wasn't all that clear if overweight person meant no overweight women

Also annoyed by thin=beautiful so maybe that's what that whole part just sounded stupid to me.

[DFW]

62. Since half the American tourists you see here are...

White beer-bellied middle-aged men with Trump-like asses, I assumed the comment wasn’t gender-specific, but, then, I didn’t write it, either. National Lampoon’s European Vacation film biggest diversion from reality was not their overall ignorance about the places they were visiting, but that the couple looked as good as Chevy Chase and Beverly D’Angelo.

[Silent Type]

81. "Trump-like asses." That's a classic. Enjoyed your posts above on Denmark.

[DFW]

88. It's easy to spend a week somewhere, love it, and declare it paradise on earth

Denmark, Hawai‘i, New Zealand, southern France, Belize, Lago Maggiore, wherever.

It‘s never that simple. Never.

[GenThePerservering]

64. The male gaze tends to be selective

and a little dim.

[Elessar Zappa]

102. Right, there's positives and negatives of any country.

Granted the US does have a lot of negatives at this time in history but, as they say, the grass is always greener.

[Fritz Walter]

49. Tusind Tak!

(A thousand thanks)

I’ve been there three times and know families in Odense, Aarhus, and -of course- Copenhagen.
One thing I discovered is that if you learn a few key phrases and questions, it makes a very nice impression, and customer-service people will show their appreciation!

Hej, hej! (Bye!)

[pansypoo53219]

66. don't remind me of the dark italian bread from qvickly.

i have been there twice. so awful. i never heard any siren, except ambulance. the roads were immaculate. there health care is just so goddamned cheap. + they even made it possible to any tax i paid back. i didn't bother.

[Celerity]

69. Denmark is one of the best places to live on the planet, but the quora post is far too simplistic & leaves out too much

Many here on DU would lose their minds over Denmark's stop (and detain if they wish) at will law enforcement policies that are in place in some of the non white, lower economic, at risk immigrant areas.

Sweden's RW government here (I live in central Stockholm) has now copied them and has started doing similar things. They also can ban people from certain areas (including entire neighbourhoods, such as the posh nightclub/shopping area of Stureplan) even if they have no criminal convictions. Denmark has similar policies as well.

[Kid Berwyn]

74. Cool TV Prime Minister

Borgen

https://www.netflix.com/title/70302482

[Wild blueberry]

76. My favorite part is about schools

"They have the BEST public schools in the world because they did away with both charter, and private schools while standardizing education, combined with free college, so everyone was inviting, worldly, and well educated."

Thank you.

[bif]

78. The most incredible pastry shops on the planet

And they're everywhere! The horror...the horror!

[orangecrush]

103. ...

[dchill]

80. Yeah, well, that Hamlet guy was nuts.

[mbusby]

83. The Denmark Meade ain't bad ...

[pamdb]

87. Denmark

Would love to visit Denmark and Sweden. Wonder if there's a river cruise...

I will say, back in 2001 when we went to Germany and Austria, I fell in Austria the day before we were to fly home and had to go to hospital (just a quick check) and this after having to go the the hospital in Salzburg the firs day of our trip with an asthma attack and
I had to pay for both services. I put it on my Visa and when we got home and I went back to work I had to contact my insurance and provide the paperwork and I did get reimbursed. But I couldn't "ride" on their national healthcare. One thing I did find out after returning from Greece last fall was that apparently I could have gotten Medicare coverage for a trip. I didn't know that, didn't need it, but next time we go to Europe I'll have to check it out.

[NickB79]

92. The entirety of my Dutch knowledge comes from Austin Powers

?si=tHjaxbiXALrP8syO

[Retrograde]

95. I almost got run over by a bicycle in Copenhagen

it was very early in the morning, and I think the rider was still asleep and relying on the bike to remember the way And I was pretty close to the bike lane.

Other than that, I found Denmark a very friendly place as a visitor, even though my Danish is limited to "tak" (I can guess some written words based on English cognates, but I'm nowhere near even being within shouting distance of approaching good). But I don't live there, so my experience is only of a very limited part.

[brush]

101. Sigh! Sounds like paradise. Can we get that here?

[KS Toronado]

106. goodbye