I hope the debate was a reality check for those DUers who always underestimate Trump.

[onenote]

So many predicted he wouldn't even show up. Or that he'd walk off the stage. Or even that he'd physically attack Biden. Those were the predictions of people who don't get it, same as the predictions of the people that predicted Trump would quit the race in 2016 or wouldn't show up for inauguration or would flee the country before he could be tried and so on and so on.

You all miss the point: Trump is a performer. Always has been. He is the embodiment of PT Barnum. He knows a sucker is born every minute and plays to that audience.

So, from now on, can people get over their fantasies about Trump meltdowns etc. and recognize that he's not just going to dry up and blow away.

[c-rational]

1. Unfortunately, you make some good points. Especially the comparison to BT Barnum.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

2. I am not watching.

Because he makes me too ill with his ridiculous games.

[pstokely]

3. basically a good liar

and Biden has been a poor truth teller so far

[PeaceWave]

4. The con artist's trick is to speak things into existence...

[DENVERPOPS]

94. Yes

Hitler's chief of Propaganda, told the world: We would tell a lie over and over and over, and the people began to think of it as being the truth.

And Hitler capitalized on that!

Wasn't Trump a reader and student of all of Hitler's writings, and had his writings on the bed night stand by his bed???????? (YES)

[malaise]

5. He Lies non stop n/t

[onenote]

9. Yes he does. And no one here should be surprised. Yet there were many here who thought he'd never show.

Or would walk off stage. Or have a meltdown.

Those people were living in a fantasy of their own creation.

[NJCher]

112. ya' think?

well, here's the count:

trump will chicken out: 3 posts

walk off the stage 1 post

trump having a meltdown 0, but 2 posts by Meidas Touch

trump will be a no show 3 posts

So you have 7 posts (please, do your own count) and you've concluded that none of us "get it" like you do. We're all living in a "fantasy world" but you're living in the "real world."

You've seen 7 posts and you're labeling all of DU as misguided and out of touch.

I really must ask: "Are you OK?"

[former9thward]

149. I don't know where you got your count.

But it was not on this site. I saw dozens of threads with hundreds of posters agreeing with one of the predictions -- not show, fake an illness and leave, storm off, attack Biden physically,

Are you OK?

[NJCher]

150. someone's memory is not

an acceptable way to make a point, at least in more educated circles. Your memory, while you might think it is just fine, would never be accepted as proof in a magazine article, a speech, or even a post on a web site. Your freshman English teacher might accept it as anecdotal, but not anything else. Anecdotal isn't taken very seriously.

It has to be quantifiable.

Have you ever designed a research study? The way you wrote your post suggests to me you don't know how to do that.

So just using your raw, native intelligence, tell me how you would do it and be able to have others get the same results. I can do that. Can you?

I'm kind of surprised by your post. I would think everyone would know this. Guess not.

[former9thward]

151. Where is your documentation?

Since you are questioning not only my memory but others in the thread who say the same thing.

I'm kind of surprised by your post. I would think everyone would know this. Guess not.

[NJCher]

152. you should be able to figure out how I did it

And when you do, your documentation will match mine.

It sounds like you're trying to worm out of duplicating my study. This is a challenge. Are you up for it?

[former9thward]

154. Others on DU know you are wrong.

As demonstrated by the thread. I will leave to the readers to determine who is wrong.

[NJCher]

155. cop out

You don't know how to do it.

It's simple. So easy. Anyone should be able to figure this out.

[malaise]

124. Valid point

I wish Joehad answered the lies more effectively

[SupportSanity]

36. Yes. He lies non stop. And his audience eats it up like caviar.

[onecaliberal]

53. His audience isn't enough to win. He sickens normal people.

Independents don’t go for his bullshit.

[PortTack]

59. Thank you! Yes...we need to continue to work hard, donate and GOTV! Tsf is a known lair and a con with a

Worn out line of bullshit that didn’t work in 2020 and won’t work now. To me…it’s amazing that looking at president Biden’s win in 2020 that ppl would think that 7+ million ppl would reverse course and vote for the idiot…NO!

Yes…I know it’s all about the EC, still he didn’t win in ‘20…he won’t win in November

Watch DARK BRANDON’S donations sky rocket in the next 24 hours…now there’s a real indicator

[onecaliberal]

64. They've also been killing their people with COVID. And there is the Nikki Haley affect.

That 20 and 30 percent in deep red states that voted for her, will never vote for dump. He displayed all those attributes tonight that she spent a lot of time pointing out to people in her campaign. Me Haley may have checked her morals at the door but her supporters aren’t as spineless.

[LaMouffette]

6. You are so right. Trump is the Jim Jones of politicians: He is evil wrapped in charisma and bullshit. I am terrified

tonight. He could win in November. I just pray God that enough Americans are intelligent enough to see through his bullshit.

[Evolve Dammit]

141. Not sure they are. Nt

[pimpbot]

7. Ding Ding Ding

We have a winner. Hes a performance artist. You think he actually believes any of the crap he spews during those rallies? He doesn't give a crap about $20 hamberders or anything the average joe is concerned with. He cares about money and power.

His team knows this debate is a performance for the low info undecided voter who has no clue on any type of serious policy matter. His job was to project strength and sling lies about Biden. He was never going to actually answer any of the questions.

Not sure what Bidens team prepped him for but this was not it.

[Sessuch]

29. Joe's prep team failed

Biden was weak and cowed tonight. He was always on the defensive. The next debate Biden better talk about the future and how to go forward to overcome the autocracy of a Trump regime. Forget about the moderators' questions.

[TheFarseer]

128. Not sure it was his prep team

Joe was making some good points, unfortunately he made them in a whisper of a voice and tripped over his words the whole time. A number of times Trump threw out a slew of accusations, Joe responds to one of them and Dana Bash tells him he has 40 seconds left. It was not good.

[LymphocyteLover]

140. Agree. He didn't seem prepared to effectively counter Trump's endless stream of BS, which was going to be the most

predictable part of the debate

[OAITW r.2.0]

8. Trump is surprising me in his delivery and audacity.

I expected more of a Trump Rally type bizarreness, Not tonight though. An impressive array of outright lies, projections, and general bullshit.

The moderators of a debate should shut down the debate when the amount of provable lies reach a pre-determined level. This is absurd.

[HighFired49]

153. Moderators should have

done some real time fact checking rather than say there would be people from each side doing fact checking after the debate. Would have changed the whole outcome of peoples' impressions. As it was, I didn't hear any network people doing fact checking other than say that the Dump had said some things that weren't true, then opine about how poorly Pres. Biden had performed.

[Rhiannon12866]

158. If they fact checked every lie that TFG told (which was in every response he gave) the debate would have been twice as long

[kentuck]

10. Yep.

We underestimate at our own peril.

And the peril of our country and our democracy.

It should be a reality check for everyone.

[GolferDave]

11. To be fair to us

We don't admire him as much as you obviously do.

[Cha]

18. lol TSF has done some Gibberish Shit

to base it on.

I don't underestimate that he's a fucking Convicted Felon , a Rapist, and a Fraud. And, has a Corrupt judge in his pocket or he might have been convicted of Stealing Classified Docs by now.

Or that he Incited an Insurrection Against the USA.

[Bucky]

98. Sorry, but this is a petty cheap shot of a criticism.

I really loathe the DU McCarthyism that pops up round here sometimes.

This "criticism" would be like if during the Cold War some politician warned that the Soviets were getting ahead in ballistic missile production, and so his opponents started calling him a communist.

Oh wait, that did happen in the Cold War...in 1960. Do you remember who that politician was?

[democratsruletheday]

13. GImme a FUCKING break...

the guy is a lying sack of orange shit and was a frothing ass clown tonight. Joe has a cold and was a little down. Don't make it out to be like Trump is anything but the POS he is. Get off the ledge fer crissakes....my god

[PortTack]

63. Agree completely! Yes..we still need to work hard, donate and GOTV! But, to panic over a debate with a known

Lair, a con and convicted felon…NO!

[Bengus81]

126. 100% correct. I'm not voting for a debate Captain, I'm voting for a LEADER

Biden is a LEADER and has done a hell of a job in four years.

Trump is a fucking criminal,just like he was before the debate. NOTHING changes that.

[BlueKota]

130. And it's not like those predictions were out of

thin air. Look at his odd behavior at rallies, his unhinged posts on his social media rant central?

Look at the way he reacts anytime people insult him. I still believe he is a powder keg ready to blow. He needs to keep being taunted with unrelenting criticisms and eventually one of those will hit the detonation button(figuratively).

If President Biden hadn't had a cold, and was feeling better, I believe he could have done it last night.

[AverageOldGuy]

14. OMG!!!

Biden is at his post-debate watch party, looking like he's lost and talking about John Wayne -- the last three generations of voters don't know who John Wayne was.

[mahina]

16. I thought he sounded better.

Hoping he feels much better soon. Wishing him very well.

[Xavier Breath]

65. He did. Sounded better at the Waffle House, too.

[emulatorloo]

91. He sounded great and the audience loved his story.

[pattyloutwo]

134. It's sad

They probably won’t show him the John King, Van Jones and McCaskill commentary, but they should. It’s time to hang up the hat, Joe. It doesn’t have to be you to save the world.

[DemocratInPa]

15. Honestly outside the lies, Trump has always been..

A good debater..

[NJCher]

60. debate teacher here

trump has never been a good debater. He doesn't even qualify for the title.

Debate means a serious discussion where you bring up facts and evidence on a certain discussion topic. Trump just made stuff up. That is not making a serious point.

Repeat: Does not qualify.

I think what you're trying to say is that trump speaks easily to a crowd. That is still not debate.

[LeftInTX]

84. These aren't debates as in scoring points and being judged. These are shows or infomercials.

[NJCher]

102. you can think that if you want

But it makes no difference if everyone else is calling it a "debate."

Neither candidate handled this format the way they should have.

The way to win these "debates" is through lively story telling. Also vivid illustration. Biden actually could have done well with that, but I think his illness tonight left him short on resources.

Trump couldn't do well because he doesn't have ethos. Everyone knows he's a liar, so any story he tells is going to be judged with a big dose of skepticism.

Who does well in these types of things? People like Reagan, Bill Clinton.

[malaise]

148. Thankyou

He is a rabble rouser - a carnival barker who lies and lies and lies and lies and lies…

[VeryProgressive]

74. He Lost every debate with Biden in 2020

So that isn't true.

[AdamGG]

110. It's harder to be completely full of shit

as an incumbent. It's easier when you're on the outside. W Bush was by no means a good debater, but he was MUCH worse in 2004 than in 2000.

[ananda]

17. It was a total shock for me!

I will never understand it.

[Tribetime]

19. I think a lot of people underestimate biden's age not being a factor

[Trust_Reality]

96. I'm 80, and I assure you that being old does not play well when any sort of popularity evaluation is relevant.

I can also tell you that I may have experience and wisdom from experience, but my brain is not as quick as it once was. I am not nearly as articulate as I once was. My memory is not what it once was.

Biden is absolutely the choice over a professional liar who has "been preparing for this debate all of [his] life", that is, lying all of his life, a long term professional con man who "has the morals of an alley car". But Trump is a highly skilled liar, and as a result is very dangerous. Very scary

I do not understand why Biden is thought to be the only person who can beat Trump.

I say this sadly, but I wonder if Biden has enough humility to step aside, or party leaders have whatever it takes to do an intervention of some sort. I think we need a younger brain to cope with such a skilled liar.

And Biden comes across as being so old, walks like someone who is closer to 100.

Sorry for the pessimism.

[pattyloutwo]

137. Don't apologize 😊

Thank you for your thoughtful insight, and for facing reality. I’m saddened by the denial here. We can do this! It’s not Joe or Nobody!

[surfered]

20. Because he makes everything up

He doesn’t have to remember any fact or any policy position. The old rule about don’t lie unless you have a good memory doesn’t apply anymore. Every Trump statement is a lie and he doesn’t even try to hide it. Just drive on, repeating the lies over and over.

Biden on the other hand was at a disadvantage in trying to remember facts and policy and convey them to the audience.

[StarryNite]

97. Exactly!

[NJCher]

101. important point

Hits home on several levels:

--Trump completely sidestepped the memory accusations that have been made at both candidates. He got around it by just making stuff up. As you say, he doesn't have to remember any fact or position. Then all you have to worry about is delivery. Speaking falsehoods has its down side, though, which I will get to in a minute.

--Biden was at a disadvantage remembering facts. This is not his forte anyway, so when he delivered the applicable truth (fact), it didn't come off as convincing or interesting. It wasn't effective.

Actually, as a communication teacher, we tell our students that facts and numbers should be handed out on paper at the conclusion of a speech.

The down side of what trump did is that his lies got more and more insane as the "debate" went on. Examples: Nancy Pelosi took responsibility for J6. His overreach could just as easily make tomorrow's big story "Trump tells ___(number) lies." No writer has to do any homework because PBS did live fact checking. All they have to do is count at the PBS site and it's an easy story.

[Arthur_Frain]

21. The performance was hollow though

He was ultra repetitive, and if anyone were to sit down a listen to substance, Biden was the clear winner. Nobody does that though, everything is optics these days.

Trump didn’t win necessarily, but Joe put in a really weak performance tonight.

[rpannier]

26. In 84 in the 2nd debate people listening on the radio said Mondale was better

those watching TV said Reagan was better.
Perception won out. Delivery is as important as substance
Biden looked terrible. He reinforced the negatives that people have been talking about for the last year

[LiberaBlueDem]

22. Trump is a liar

A big fat lying liar who lied all debate.

[Daylily]

23. Biden was sad.

Trump with his lies held the stage a commanded the debate. Joe acted his age and was barely able to make coherent responses. I am very worried. He did not appear capable of doing the job.

[Nixie]

106. Interestingly, Biden has already been doing the job.

So we know he can do the job because he's doing the job.

Joe was at a Waffle House in Atlanta after the debate and was asked about his performance. He said it was hard to debate a liar. Sounds about right.

[pattyloutwo]

138. He has a team, and the team has been good. However,

He has been in rapid decline and no longer capable of being president as we witnessed last night. It’s hard to face reality. The sooner people do it the better, so we can all rally around a viable candidate that can debate Trump, and campaign successfully, like Newsom and Harris did last night.

[radius777]

24. Trump is a talented politician. It's something hard to accept

but it's true. Trump has lived his life in the media spotlight and is good at working up a crowd. We live in a social media and reality show culture where the Trump type of person is seen as the 'winner', whereas the decent (but less flashy) type of person seen as the loser.

[ColinC]

33. I will say tho: Trump isn't the only one on at that stage that people have devastatingly underestimated

[PortTack]

69. If you mean how DARK BRANDON has in the end woven his magic thru experience and good advice, and come out

On top, in the end…absolutely!

Can ppl not except the fact that everyone has bad times and be more supportive than some here have been?? Shame!!

[ColinC]

86. Welcome to DU!

Enjoy your stay

[ColinC]

95. I mean the guy who they thought wouldn't finish his first term in the senate because he was too young

The one who they thought could never get over losing half his family in a car accident.

The one who was counted out when he came in near last place in not just one -but two presidential primaries.

I mean the one who folks thought was down and out and over when he lost his eldest son to cancer.

The guy who was on his way to losing his third presidential primary when he came out of nowhere and won South Carolina, while subsequently sweeping the primaries.

The guy that became President -in large part because he never gave up.

Because he has a fire within him that will never die.

Now some trolls think he is over because of one debate? I don’t think so:


Because he will always, ALWAYS surprise you when you thought he was done.


Joe Biden is the ultimate comeback kid and I have no doubt in my mind he is the one best suited to beat Trump.

Again.

[NJCher]

107. you need to read that new book

the one on how trump is just an attention seeking ho. He doesn't even want to be a politician. He just wants to be in the limelight.

Talented politicians do not make statements like "Milwaukee is a horrible city."

Talented politicians do not bite the hand that feeds them ("I don't care about you, I just want your vote." )

For talented politician, look at somebody like Nancy Pelosi.

[radius777]

111. Trump is a demagogue, which takes talent

in the dark and machiavellian sense.

[NJCher]

116. it absolutely does NOT take talent

Just lack of character. The ability to be shameless. No vision. Ignorance insofar as prejudice is concerned.

But talent? No. Machiavellian, yes (if you're using the word as a personality disorder, which I think you are).

Maybe you are searching for the word "unique." We have never seen anyone who embodies such a combination of reprehensible characteristics.

[Ford_Prefect]

25. Trump was jacked up on something more than his ego. Soooooo many lies!!!!

[yorkster]

115. That's what I thought. How does he sound

so inane and loony at his rallies, then come across so confidently in a debate? Well of course he was lying, attacking Joe personally, etc. He was loathsome, but never seemed off kilter. He's always bragadocious, but he stayed on topic, his topics, because he almost never really answered the questions asked of him tonight.

[brush]

27. He lied his ass all the way through.

No trump enthusasts on DU, please

[Random Boomer]

37. Know your enemy

It's not being a Trump enthusiast to point out your adversary's strengths. Trump's strengths are showmanship and the illusion of competence.

Biden IS competent, but he didn't convey that impression tonight. That is a serious concern for all us of here, who want him to win.

[brush]

39. It's an illusion all right, and it became more evident towards the end...

when he never answered the questions and just lied about how great his economy was when millions died of covid.

[PortTack]

71. ☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️

[rpannier]

28. If I were betting, I'd bet there won't be a 2nd debate

If I were advising il douche. I'd tell him to skip it

[ColinC]

30. Yep

And if we keep underestimating him he is going to win. Again.

[cilla4progress]

31. He did what he does best

sell lies.

[bigtree]

45. who did he sell them to? Who bought them?

...receipts, please.

[cilla4progress]

47. Just because hes selling doesnt mean

anyone's buying

People need to chill here...

[PortTack]

72. Thank you!! you stated the facts in 13 words better than 95+% of the posts!

[TwilightZone]

32. I was just thinking that this should blunt a bit of the unwarranted overconfidence and complacency.

Some DUers have talked about this race as though it's completely in the bag for Biden, some predicting 70-75% popular vote, which is ludicrous. I've been a bit concerned that people will get overconfident and complacent, but this should prove that this really is a competitive race after all, and that we're going to have to work extremely hard to get President Biden a second term.

[Aepps22]

38. I've seen the opposite

I see many DUers quick to give up everytime things don't go well. Polls, debates, rallies, etc I've seen more negativity than ever. Going into this debate I said that if Joe didn't have a great debate then most of the debate threads would be doom and gloom. My message has always been that we need to fight and work hard to win. The election is in our hands but people have to do their part.

[PortTack]

73. Nailed it perfectly!

[bigtree]

48. not many people have been basing that confidence on a debate, so this is a canard

...and you haven't shown where this advantaged Trump more than it hurt him where he needs votes.

All you have is this cynical take that's being echoed by so many tonight as if Trump's prevaricating performance was some thing of beauty.

Let's not just buy into some artificial hurdle the media has invented to bolster the absolute disgrace that is trump.

[lees1975]

34. Trump was exactly who I expected him to be.

A totally dishonest, pathological liar. And he didn't win any new voters tonight. And that's going to come out quickly.

If there was an expectation that Biden would cut into the MAGA base, that was disabused tonight. But Trump made the strongest case in the debate that he should not be President. Other than actually stating "I should not be elected," everything else he said communicated that. And unfortunately, while there are a lot of really stupid, uneducated, deceived Americans out there. Dumbasses can't be a majority and we're going to find that out.

[Mr.Bee]

42. They should have had big red X's

Like 'America's Got Talent' overhead for each lie trump told.
It wasn't fair Biden should have to use his time to debunk Trump's lies
Or at least give Biden extra time for him to address all of them.

So What did Trump lie about? A-Z
Abortion
Afghanistan
Covid
Economy
His administration
His statements
Immigrants granted Medicare and Social Security
Inflation
Jan 6th
Military Generals
NATO
People he threw under the bus
Putin
Social Security
Tariffs
Ukraine
Veterans
Tax Scam of 2017
Xenophobia

[Ms. Toad]

56. I kept wanting Biden to respond to the allegations about immigrants and social security & medicare -

Trump even said it twice and Biden didn't respond to it. And politifact didn't fact check it. (I even sent it to them to fact check - and they still didn't fact check it).

I was beginning to think I'd imagined it.

[Trust_Reality]

103. How many viewers who do not pay attention to truthful news will recognize or reject Trump's lies?

[Polybius]

35. And 36% of DU think Biden will win by over 10 points

It's lunacy, these people need a reality check.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219036858

[ColinC]

105. It's June

Also this debate may play very differently in people’s memories than you might expect

Also: 4-6

[Polybius]

109. Just look at how DU is reacting

Now imagine the rest of the population, who are much further to the right than we are.

I think the election will be close, closer than 2020.

[ColinC]

125. DU is operating on the assumption that optics is everything and substance is nothing

Just wait. You might be pleasantly surprised.

You might not.

Trump lost nearly every debate he ever had until last night. Now suddenly losing a debate means the world is on fire and the sky is falling?

That makes no sense to me…

[Polybius]

131. Because when Trump lost to Hillary and Biden, he often times looked like a raging maniac

But he was still energetic. This performance was so epically bad that will go down in the history books. Entire panels on liberal stations (who like Biden) are all united in agreement. I've never seen anything like it.

[ColinC]

145. It appears so far, at least, that Trump looking like a pathological liar would've taken hold of headlines if not for l

Liberals freaking out.


If this debate loses Biden the White House it won’t actually be his fault. His allies having a full blown panic and making headlines with it, would.

[Frank D. Lincoln]

146. I couldn't agree more.

Well stated.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

40. he is a reality douche bag

my apologies to douche bags...

Give him props for showing up and lying his but off

He is an actor and a pretty bad one at that. he never led this country, he led his supporters and that is all.

[DemocraticPatriot]

41. Trump was definitely "on his game" tonight....

to the misfortune of our country.


I never heard him devolve into the incomprehensible nonsense which he has displayed
in many of his recent rallies--- which I hoped to hear tonight--
only a disciplined recitation of many of his numberless lies

much to the misfortune of our country.


I have to presume that he was under the influence
of 'performance-enhancing narcotics'

[Mr.Bee]

44. I could hear the people across the way cheering everything Trump said

Like they were watching a sports event...
It's NOT a sports event. It's the nuclear codes.

[bigtree]

43. I'm lost with people who insist the string of bullshit they saw from Trump tonight was some kind of victory

...just disgusting to even suggest it, imo.

[Ms. Toad]

57. No thinking person would ever vote for Trump -

So this debate wasn't about substance - since any person capable of thinking about substance has already decided who to vote for. It was about performance - and he outperformed Biden.

[bigtree]

67. these folks don't agree with you

Sarah Reese Jones @PoliticusSarah 43m
David Plouffe says Trump's debate performance did poorly with swing voters in focus groups, "No one was saying I am really excited about Donald Trump coming back to the presidency. He reconfirmed all the reasons they voted against him in 2020."

Link to tweet

Matt A. Barreto 🇵🇪 ⚽️@realMABarreto
If you haven't been watching the Univision FG of undecided Latino voters, nearly every single undecided voter said they now support Biden, not Trump! Latinos were watching and listening and Trump sounded like a crazy liar. Watch this video clip from @uninot

Link to tweet

Chris D. Jackson @ChrisDJackson 5m
BREAKING: 50% of CNN's own focus group of undecided voters in Michigan just said President Biden won the debate.


...receipts?

[emulatorloo]

83. I'd rec 1000 times if I could. Focus groups def saw thru Trump.

[Cha]

118. Right!

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Chris D. Jackson @ChrisDJackson 5m
BREAKING: 50% of CNN's own focus group of undecided voters in Michigan just said President Biden won the debate.
Rather than get down in the mire.. Check out the Positive Reviews!

[emulatorloo]

119. Hadn't heard about the Univision Focus Group. Excellent news!

[Cha]

120. Yes, it's like other people were concentrated

on TSF's Crazy Lies than what some around here are Concentrated on.

[emulatorloo]

121. You got that right...

A bit of a head scratcher huh? Hopefully things will settle down soon.

[ForgedCrank]

46. Dang, someone

here gets it. I just cant' say that stuff out loud, it gets me attacked.
All the the ketchup gossip, kindergarten names, and hyperbole do nothing but make us look silly for those who find us on google. We may not like him, but he's the con of all cons, and he's damn good at it. He cannot be dismissed as crazy or ineffective, that is a huge mistake.
Full or crap or otherwise, he's good at selling himself to certain types of people and we have to take that very seriously. He is absolutely a real threat, and we need to start selling Biden policy v/s Trump policy. It's the only real path to victory.

[Mr.Bee]

50. They Never Saw The Movie 'Citizen Kane'

“The people will believe what I tell them to believe!” he bellows when someone tries to reign in his worse impulses.
Orson Welles imbues Kane ...
The American dream is hollow for Kane.
As an adult, Kane uses his money and power not to build his own happiness but to either buy love or make others as miserable as he is. Kane's wealth isolates him from others throughout the years, and his life ends in loneliness at Maga-Loco!

[Blue Full Moon]

49. I agree

It's the same thing that happened in 2016. They seem to think that Trump is so looney that people couldn't possibly vote for him. That is not how propaganda works. Good or bad doesn't matter. What does, is owning the headlines. The democrats are going to have to be tough and go at him. But they need to state what they are going to do for the majority of Americans.

[marble falls]

51. Let's see if I got that right: Democrats supported him all the way through both primaries and supported hi to ...

... a huge victory and now YOU think he should be dumped because you didn't like his performance in a so-called "debate", that he made cogent comments. You just don't like the way he "came off". I doubt you are a Democrat. C'mon, be honest.

[Blue Full Moon]

87. You need to admit

That you are no democrat.

[marble falls]

89. You are a confused sort. You join up just to cut the President over a so-called debate. Show me I'm wrong ...

You didn't deny not being a Democrat. You don't deny voting GOP in the primary: you just cut Joe Biden.

In what way did TFG do any better than Joe? Joe presented his program and facts. TFG lied right out of the gate. Name one thing that resembles platform TFG presented and how he plans to make them work.

[Irish_Dem]

54. Yes. Trump is a ruthless, dangerous sociopath.

Who was able to pull it together.

He was able to lie non stop in a very vicious way for an hour and a half.
And ignorant Americans will think he sounded strong and reasonable.

I think he was medicated btw.

I keep saying that we underestimate Trump at our own peril.

Good OP.

[iamnoone]

55. Didn't watch

Oligarchical weasels vs. a team trying to maintain democracy. My vote is in already in. Watching commercial B television of politics would have been dissipation of precious moments gifted to me on this earth.

[LW1977]

61. Go away!

[PortTack]

81. This....X 1,000!

[womanofthehills]

93. Democrats are saying it all over social media

Link to tweet

?s=46

Link to tweet

?s=46

[kcr]

68. Username checks out n/t

[obamanut2012]

70. Mirt!

[In It to Win It]

62. Absolutely! His job is to go on stage, talk shit, and look good while doing it.

[Cheezoholic]

66. I don't think we underestimate dipshit much, we underestimate those voters who would even give him a second thought

Me living around a bunch of them its not that surprising to me. TSF did everything I expected tonight. I think Joe missed the toe to toe format more. I've watched him debate for 40 years, this aint the kind of debate he's good at. Whomever prepped him fucked up and Joe fucked up letting them get out of his comfort zone. Besides, American attention spans are short. I think this will be crusty old shit on a dirty boot by the 4th.

[LeftInTX]

156. I've seen many, many DU posts: Trump is gonna flee the country. Trump isn't gonna show up.

Trump is gonna trip and fall. He's gonna die. He's gonna have a heart attack. He's gonna have a stroke and be in a nursing home. The list is endless on DU.


I see it all the time. It's wishful thinking to take the easy way out.


I've seen hundreds of polls too. If Trump is found guilty:
He will flee the country
Drop out
Immediately be sent to Riker's Island for 30 year.

I don't dare respond because the answers are overwhelmingly: "Flee the country". I don't want to be the oddman out.

[Cheezoholic]

157. I will. He ain't going nowhere lol. And the problem isn't so much HIM, he's a flare up of the disease that has festered

in this country since it's inception. Until we treat that he and those folks like him aren't going anywhere.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

75. Don't forget:

he's an evil genius.

[C Moon]

76. I just donated to Joe. Fuck the orange turd! He lies, he cheats, he doesn't give a damn about anyone but himself.

Go Joe and Kamala!!!!!

[emulatorloo]

78. He's a liar, rapist, a narcissist and "has the morals of an alleycat." Swing voters saw thru his "performance"

Link to tweet

[DarthDem]

79. "He's a Performer"

His performance was pretty bad. Not answering the questions posed and lying repeatedly isn't really much of a performance.

[emulatorloo]

85. Yeah swing voters in focus groups said the same thing. Hated the lying and refusal to answer questions.

[DarthDem]

80. Double Post

[ImNotGod]

82. I never underestimate big money, red state voter suppression, fascist judges/ courts, foreign influence

tRump is NOTHING without all the above

[orangecrush]

144. THIS

[AdamGG]

88. Trump is a narcisistic corrupt sociopath, but...

He seems like exactly the same asshole he's always been. And, he has lots of tv performance experience and always knows where the cameras are and how to deliver his performance to them.

I will vote for Joe and do what I can to help him get elected and pray that he wins because the alternative is horrific, but if we can be truthful here, I was alarmed by the decline in his performance compared to the debates 4 years ago and against Paul Ryan & Sarah Palin.

I'm not alarmed about him governing because I trust his policies and the team that he has advising him, but I am alarmed about what he will be able to bring to the campaign. Trump delivered a machine gun of lies and bullshit that someone like Gavin Newsom or Kamala Harris would have dissected. Joe answered that he had a lower golf handicap than Trump and left so many things on the table that I don't think he would have 4 years ago.

[quakerboy]

90. I am reminded of Ronnie

Mind gone, but propped up reading off whatever his minders had him performing.

Con Man cons.

This was not a great night for America. In any way.

[Blue Full Moon]

99. That wasn't a debate

The first headline I saw on CNN was trump had zingers on Biden. Our country is in the balance and that was the headline. It was setup like some sports talk before a game and both opponents are there and suppose to talk trash about each other. CNN is republican friendly, ever since Chris Litch started there. Immediate fact check should have been done and Biden’s team should have never agreed to do the debate without it.

[Silent Type]

104. I can't blame this on CNN. Think we'll feel better after reflection, but CNN let them fight over

questions most people who are truly undecided care about. People who listen to what was said will appreciate Biden’s responses. trumpsters or voters who didn’t listen, but focused on optics, likely shifted somewhat to trump. We’ll know soon enough.

[Aussie105]

100. It's impossible to debate someone

who can cram 5 lies and 6 distortions into every sentence.

Trump thrives on bullying others, thinks knocking people down makes him bigger, or something.

But bullying others has no place in politics.

Unfortunately bullying and making people shrink up is a popular attitude of the Deplorables.
Most will think Trump did good.

So who won this debate?

If you think honesty and clear thinking are important, Joe.

If you think being a bully and a harassing influence are important personal traits, Trump.

In short, not much achieved in this debate.

[GenThePerservering]

113. Past time for that

and trying it would be extremely disingenuous on the part of the Democrats. "We have so little faith in our candidate that we're going to toss him out and try somebody else, show ourslves to be weak and unsure, rev up an entirely new campaign, find another war chest, pivot complertely..."

Panic clouds thought.

[kcr]

117. You want to absolutely 100% ensure that Trump wins?

Because forcing Biden out will do that. It's time to put out the hair fire. Biden is not going to step aside. It is way too late for that.

[Trust_Reality]

114. A highly skilled con man, who is widely known or proven to be a con man, should not get air time.

Complicated by the First Amendment, of course.

Voters everywhere should sue Trump for fraud. I'm dreaming, of course.

[Dem4life1234]

122. Yes

He should never be underestimated. He's a snake oil salesman, a conman.

[Aussie105]

123. Local Australian TV station drank the FOX kool aid . . .

"Dems in disarray.
Trump victorious.
Dems looking to replace Biden as soon as possible."

Skipping a few details, like Trump is a known felon, plays lose and fast with the truth, history, the law, company/GOP finances, repeats promises he didn't keep in his 4 years, threatens or belittles his perceived enemies, etc.

Personally, I don't want Trump back in the White House.
He will bring chaos to American lives, disrupt international relations, and back overseas dictators.

Any American who lived through Trump's 4 years in the White House and does NOT have a sour taste in his mouth at the thought of a repeat, is just . . . Deplorable. (Or just wants to destroy America.)

[TheFarseer]

127. Trump had a great debate performance

Nearly everything he said was an exaggeration or outright lie but he was landing punches for sure. I wish Joe would have been able to defend himself better.

[OneGrassRoot]

129. I just hope for anyone watching they stuck around longer than 15 minutes. So many have very short...

attention spans and form opinions quickly based on little information thanks to collective ADHD fueled by social media.

I don't believe Trump's lies will matter to such people. They'll see energy v no energy.

Then again, such people will likely forget about this quickly.

As for people who watched the whole thing, I doubt any minds were changed. If they are remotely informed, they'll know all Trump does is lie. If they're just now paying attention and trying to learn, hopefully they'll also watch/read all the fact checking post-debate.

I just talked myself into not worrying so much about last night's debate. lol

[Teapot_Biscuit]

132. Joe can recover from this. it's still early in the election season. nt

[republianmushroom]

133. Agree, overconfidence is our biggest enemy.

[bucolic_frolic]

139. I thought Trump's slurring words and verbal conflations were a setup all along

but few were listening. And Trump's campaign made it an issue. We were trapped, in a sense.

[Jean Genie]

142. Whine, weep, sob, bitch. moan...

Let's clutch those pearls REAL HARD, folks. Horrors! A eighty-one year old man sounded like an eighty-one year old man.

While a seventy-eight year old man sounded like a fascist asshole with pending dementia.

Your vote, your choice.

[Martin68]

143. With all due respect, recognizing him for the vulgar, cognitively challenged, lying sack of shit that he is is

not "underestimating" him. Perhaps it is the hypocrisy, depravity, and hate of his supporters that we underestimate.

[louis-t]

147. I really hated the smug look on his face and nodding and acting like

he understood the questions and was giving a thoughtful answer.