This forum has lost it.

[edisdead]

Been reading this forum for two decades and the bullshit that is happening here is beyond anything that I have ever seen. In years past if you weren’t on the enthusiasm train you got a hide. Not anymore. Now it is casual to just call for the sitting president to drop out because of a debate performance.

Thats where we are at now on this site. This bothers me. This actually shakes me to the core more than what happened to this site on election night 2016 with the hack. To me this is unbelievable. If I cannot find enthusiasm for our president and candidate here, what is the point of coming here at all? None.

Biden is our candidate. The ling and short of it. If you can’t sell his message then why are YOU here? This is it folks. We lose this election and it is fucking over. Do you understand? It is fucking over. I am talking jailed journalists. The end of the middle class, the fucking end of rights for people on a large scale basis. If you cannot sell hope and the message then it IS OVER.

So you had better buck the fuck up or be ready to live ina full on authoritarian regime because that is what the fuck is going to happen.

I don’t give a fuck what you think of the debate but as far as what you are saying about Biden, it better be said while you are whistling zippedeedooda out of your asshole because if not you are going to be living in a fucking nightmare in 6 months.

Gavin newsome isn’t coming in on a white horse to save the day. Nobody else is the fucking candidate. Joe Biden is and will be the candidate so either disregard everything else and sell sell sell the fucking message or be ready to be marched to the gulags…. Because that IS what is going to happen if we lose.

Figure it the fuck out.

[Irish_Dem]

1. People are shocked and scared. They need some time to calm down

and think about this rationally.

There is a lot riding on this election and emotions run high.

It will be OK. But we are going to have a rough couple of days I think.

[orange jar]

5. Couldn't have said it any better.

n/t.

[LW1977]

13. Thanks for your "concern"

[WarGamer]

29. +1000nt

[DemocraticPatriot]

36. I am going to capture and KILL the fucking groundhog who ate my entire garden

last year....

Well, maybe I won't kill him, but I don't wish him well...

I may name him 'Donald Trump'.


I can't do anything personally about the presidential race,
but instead of panicking about the debate,
I will try to do something positive about my own personal situation....

and that means No More 'Groundhog Day's.

[Croney]

226. Only in my fantasies would I murder rabbits, but if I see one more

frickin' bunny in the garden I'm going to camp out with a sledgehammer. (Also just a fantasy but...)

[Hieronymus Phact]

81. This

I didn't watch the debate, I never do, the last one i watched was bush vs gore and it was painful to watch.
We're all disappointed. but a few points:
• A week is a year in politics, and it's a long time till the election.
• Political Junkies here obsess on this stuff but most people don't.
• Perceptions differ from person to person. You can't quite judge other peoples take away: it's often unexpected.
• Climb in off the ledge and take a day or 2 off from the news.
• Biden is an experienced politician who had an off-night, he knows what needs to be done to recover.
• Finally, as The Guide says: DON'T PANIC!

[pattyloutwo]

186. I think you should watch it

This wasn’t other “off night” debates

[Hieronymus Phact]

193. Why?

It's not going to make me think we should commit electoral suicide by ditching Biden and going with some random person at the last minute.

Point #3 on my list:
• Perceptions differ from person to person. You can't quite judge other peoples take away: it's often unexpected.

just today:

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1806545664693719275%7Ctwgr%5E05b916ce7fb99231e6cb3e15e8d760eb9cebcf58%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstories%2F2024%2F6%2F28%2F2249222%2F-Joe-Biden-showed-up-despite-being-sick-and-why-Donald-Trump-sank-his-chances-to-win-the-election

If you haven't been watching the Univision FG of undecided Latino voters, nearly every single undecided voter said they now support Biden, not Trump! Latinos were watching and listening and Trump sounded like a crazy liar. Watch this video clip

[oldsoftie]

136. A lot can happen in 4 weeks. We have 4 MONTHS to go. Yes, lets see.

[tmars505]

159. calm down

for anybody who fucking cares, Mick Jagger is right now, even as we fucking speak, on tour. He and Richards are both 80.
And they sure appear able to do their fucking jobs.
You can tell I'm fucking pissed about all this talk about Joe's age. It is a bullshit shot.

[Irish_Dem]

175. I am perfectly calm.

Perhaps you should take your own advice.

I will be happy to discuss this issue when you have calmed yourself.

[oldsoftie]

207. Its silly acting like everyone will be in the same state at the same age.

Just like acting like young people mature at the same rate.
Neither is true. Malcom Young of AC/DC died of dementia at 64. Ben Franklin invented bifocals at age 78. The list of both goes on.

[Stuart G]

2. We are NOT going to lose. Trump defines the word S**T.

[DemocraticPatriot]

38. Shall we just surrender right now??

Sign up for service to the Fourth Reich, perhaps?


There IS NO prospective Democratic savior replacement candidate
"waiting in the wings"
who polls more than 10 percentage points BEHIND President Biden
versus Donald Trump.


Any intelligent suggestions?

[MorbidButterflyTat]

176. YES

[pattyloutwo]

189. No we shouldn't surrender

I think Biden will step down, and say this is the candidate. He/she will hit the campaign trail fighting like heck. We will rally like crazy and unite. It will be historic.

[DemocraticPatriot]

197. Oh yeah. It'd be historic. It'd be a historic landslide LOSS.

[Butterflylady]

194. Yes, I have a suggestion.

Maybe you should run for president.

[emulatorloo]

66. You see these? My guess is no.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

If you haven't been watching the Univision FG of undecided Latino voters, nearly every single undecided voter said they now support Biden, not Trump! Latinos were watching and listening and Trump sounded like a crazy liar. Watch this video clip from @uninot

David Plouffe says Trump's debate performance did poorly with swing voters in focus groups, "No one was saying I am really excited about Donald Trump coming back
to the presidency. He reconfirmed all the reasons they voted against him in 2020."

[mahina]

75. Listen to the audio. I was surprised to hear how much

The visuals impacted my read. He did have a couple if fumbles but he was informed, sustitantive, on point and obviously not feeling well.

[doc03]

128. I watched a couple minutes of it last night

when they replayed it. I could not hear one word Biden said, I had to turn it off he looked and sounded bad. I turned it off could not watch it. It is too late now to do anything but stick with Biden and hope.

[wnylib]

79. I don't think that Biden or the Democratic Party

needs opponents from within the party.

[kansasobama]

204. They are not opponents

Genuinely concerned democrats. They should be allowed to talk. We are big tent, not a cult like Trump's yes sir, yes sir.

[claudette]

227. I agree

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but it doesn’t mean giving up on President Biden

[AllaN01Bear]

3. thanks .

[orangecrush]

4. THANK YOU

Shout it from the rooftops.

[Ocelot II]

6. It's just a few people, some of whom just joined

for the occasion, so …. But there are always a few skunks at any picnic, as well as people who are Debbie Downers by nature, and inclined to panic. Most of us will carry on and keep working to get Biden elected.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

11. And some people

who beat the same damn drum of doom repeatedly.

My suggestion for them: lift people up, or keep it to yourself.

[Trueblue1968]

26. And report the people who sound lke they belong on true republic

Management on DU better keep the rotten posts hidden in my opinion.

[demmiblue]

7. No it hasn't.

A few people are going overboard… propably in their cups, tbh.

No need to be so hyperbolic.

[Kid Berwyn]

167. This forum gets it.

Democracy requires a place to discuss ideas.

[surfered]

8. You sound like a coach in the locker room at half time

Now we go out in the 2nd half and try harder!

[edisdead]

22. Long time youth coach

Probably why. I use less harsh language in front of the yutes.

[wnylib]

82. And that's exactly what we need to do. And will do.

[RussBLib]

9. Joe's stutter reappeared tonight

...bad timing, plus a cold. And Trump lied his ass off as usual. The fact that Trump can lie so smoothly should be disturbing to everyone, including the GOP.

So what has changed?

As Gavin Newsome said post-debate, "Worry less. Do more." And tossing a few more bucks Joe and Kamala's way is a good start.

[emulatorloo]

54. Newsome was great! 'worry less, do more' are words to live by.

[Teapot_Biscuit]

122. Hakuna Matata (Sp?)

[ecstatic]

10. Did you watch the debate?

It's not about us here on DU. We're locked in 100%. But we have to convince our friends, family members, and millions of other people to pull the lever for President Biden.

THAT'S why people are freaking the fuck out. I told everyone to watch tonight. And many did. And what they saw was someone who looked too old to serve.

There were several moments.... not just one moment, but several where Biden completely blanked out.

That is what happened tonight.

That is the reason for the concern that you see. Biden has amazing surrogates who have done an amazing job talking us down. But at the same time, we have to be clear-eyed.

Newsom and Harris were great, but Former United States Senator Claire McCaskill just tossed Biden all the way under the bus.

I'm going to sleep on it and see how things feel in the morning.

[Colgate 64]

20. I wrote about this a while ago

trying to ,make my point that (IMO) Joe needed to show himself more to the American public, explaining his achievements as well as his plans for the next 4 years. At the time I said I didn't think he was taking advantage of the huge microphone he has at his disposal.
The format of this debate was not at all good for him. He was obviously overprepared and seemed to be in a rush, trying to fit all he wanted to say in a couple of minutes due to the debate format. That's not a good format for anybody but especially for him keeping in mind his lifelong fight against stuttering. Add to that the effects of a cold on him and you get a very atypical performance. But effects of that could have been significantly lessened if the viewing public had seen Biden more at his own pace in his own time and on his chosen topic before. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.
But it's not too late. Joe can get back in front of the public virtually any time he wants, to talk about anything he wants and about damned near anything he wants. If he starts doing that he can erase any lingering doubts this "debate" created.

[rpannier]

32. The format of this debate was not at all good for him.

It was the format his campaign chose.
At least, that was the talking point all over the place and why Biden was going to sweep the floor with il douche

[KPN]

162. He did sweep the floor with il douche with the

substance of what he said. But the optics weren’t good.

Unfortunately, too many people vote on the basis of optics over reason.

[Jilly_in_VA]

202. I said to my husband the other night

that Joe was a natural for the "Fireside Chat" type of thing that FDR used to do. His folksy manner and natural style would work well wth that format and he could just come on the TV and talk to the public for about 15 minutes at a time, maybe on one subject.

[llmart]

155. Joe needed to show himself more to the American public, explaining his achievements as well as his plans for the next 4

I believe he did that in his hours long State of the Union address. This was supposedly a "debate", though I never expected it to actually be one since one party doesn't know how to debate. The convicted felon only knows how to repeat the same tired lies and nonsense he does at his rallies. A debate should technically be where the moderator poses a question and each party gets a chance to tell how they would address the issue.

Personally, I think they need to do away with debates altogether. I also think candidates should not start campaigning months and months before the actual election. I think people tune out after hearing the same things over and over again. No wonder our the voting numbers are not greater than it usually is.

[edisdead]

23. Did you read my post

or even just the title???

I am talking about THIS forum.

YOU may be talking a out something outside if THIS forum, but I am not.

So maybe you are confused about what I am talking about.

[yorkster]

37. I've thought for awhile that Claire and

Nicolle were open to another candidate. I almost couldn't believe what I was hearing from most of the MSNBC anchors, other than Lawrence who was rational.
It's what Michael Steele said- people have lost debates before but you didn't hear people right after it ended talking about whether or not the incumbent president should abandon the race.

[Rafi]

55. It's all about the reasons you lose the debate.

Making a gaffe is one thing, or mis-stating a fact.

[pattyloutwo]

118. McCaskill

It’s not just that he lost; it’s his mental faculties. This is an extremely hard situation. I thought McCaskill was honest, where others tried to gloss over it

[happy feet]

125. Other than the senior moment

He had at the beginning his faculties were just fine. He had grasp of the facts and responded to TFG continual lying w facts. One need only look past the stuttering (a disability per ADA) to HEAR what he said vs the fact that he stuttered.

[yorkster]

140. We have no way of knowing how much

the cold +nerves+overpreparatiion affected Joe last night. He was tired and unwell and certainly his stutter was worse, perhaps because of all these factors. But
do people think we've had some sort of Potemkin president and Joe hasn't been in charge? The open talk by pundits, McCaskill et al, that we must find another candidate is panic talk, unseemly and reckless. It was nauseating to see people brandishing their phones, talking about how they were hearing from certain people, etc.

Acknowledge what happened and move on with strength and resolve. That goes for Pres. Biden and all the surrogates.
If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. Only time will tell. But give it just that. - some damn time.

[shrike3]

219. Rwers will be delighted at all the posts they can crib from.

I've seen right-wing talking points more than a few times.

[CTyankee]

158. Claire and Nicolle briefly just lost their nerve. It'll come back to them once the initial impression wears off.

eyes on the prize!

[yorkster]

161. You may be right. Hope that's the case.

[DemocraticPatriot]

46. Performance in a debate doesn't really have that much to do with

how one will perform as President of the United States...

President Biden's beliefs and core values are far superior to those of his opponents--
and besides that, he does his best to tell the truth to the American people---
with or without an occasional stutter or pause.


There is no realistic alternative to President Biden,
if we want to avoid witnessing DJT being installed in the White House
as the next Adolf Hitler.... and this time one with nuclear bombs.

That is MY concern--- not whether President Biden was slower with a debate response than DJT was with his habitual lies (which he has committed very well to whatever memory he has left, as we saw tonight)

[emulatorloo]

63. Did you check out any of the undecided voter focus groups? Maybe you should

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

If you haven't been watching the Univision FG of undecided Latino voters, nearly every single undecided voter said they now support Biden, not Trump! Latinos were watching and listening and Trump sounded like a crazy liar. Watch this video clip from @uninot

David Plouffe says Trump's debate performance did poorly with swing voters in focus groups, "No one was saying I am really excited about Donald Trump coming back
to the presidency. He reconfirmed all the reasons they voted against him in 2020."

[sheshe2]

147. Thank you, em.

[wnylib]

85. Do you remember Obama's first debate with Romney?

I watched it with an Obama phone banking team and we all said that it hurt to watch Obama's poor performance. But Obama bounced back and won re-election.

I remember Biden's poor showing in the 2020 Dem primary debates. But then he got better and won the primaries and the general election.

I have faith in Biden.

[Traildogbob]

129. Waiting for someone

To say this. Obama did really badly first debate. The next two, he cleaned house. But the right Wing hate machine has taken massive steroids since. They will be out singing like cicadas on coke.
That and a divided Dem will sink us. They know that and will rub the would with a steel brush.
We have to get back in the fight, With Joe. He does not give up on us, we gotta stand by him.
It’s that or Project 2025 under Trump.

[wnylib]

157. Agree completely.

[pattyloutwo]

117. Agreed

It’s better to face the truth and deal with it now

[Think. Again.]

121. The truth is...

Joe Biden is our candidate, and WE stand strong behind President Biden because of his integrity, his honesty, his compassion, and most of all his extreme success at facing the hard challenges of his particular first term as well as how he has successfully pushed forward with major important issues that WE care about.

Go Joe!!! 🌊 !!!

[oldsoftie]

208. You're absolutely right. WE aren't the audience.

And until today we couldn't even discuss this topic here even though it is the TOP issue with Independent voters. And the attached issue is still not allowed to be discussed!
But suffice it to say if Joe was 60yrs old he'd be up by 10 points. Or MORE

[ForgedCrank]

12. Evreyone reacts

to things differently.
I do my best to look past the bullcrap and take a step back when I see something unusual. This debate was one of those instances.
I see it more in the long game format. All this freaking out will settle down, maybe even by this time tomorrow as people regain their composure. Nobody likes watching their team suffer a setback, even if this is really meaningless in the end. Debates don't change minds, all it does is give people something to talk about and not much more.
Joe Biden will remain our candidate, and I feel good about his chances in November if we start focusing on policy and issues, and drop the drama baloney. In my opinion, these court cases have been one of the worst distractions of all, and putting them on hold and getting them OUT of the news until later is better for us, not Trump. His problems don't go away, and we will get to focus on selling policy like we should be.
Regardless, all this will fade quickly enough as people gather their senses again. Onward as we forge ahead. I feel good about our chances, even if Biden wasn't at his best tonight.

[CTyankee]

14. Joe has a cold which can slow down even a healthy old person.

I think the commentators mentioned that he was recovering from it. I think he was strong and brave. He showed courage. He showed decency. Trump is a low life criminal whose 4 years in the WH wreaked havoc on this country. Women lost a precious right they had for years. The convicted felon is responsible. From now on I will call Trump "the convicted felon."

[Violet_Crumble]

17. Ah, that explains his voice...

I watched the first bit of it and his voice was terribly scratchy and I could hear his stutter kicking in, which was a stark contrast to clips of the state of the union speech he did, where he absolutely nailed it. I only stopped watching coz it was the NYT and the commentary being posted pissed me off with what seemed to be a big focus on criticising Biden and ignoring Trump.

Anyway, it's a bit annoying how Americans focus so much on appearances and not on the substance. If it was judged on what was said, Biden absolutely came out on top of it...

[Zambero]

67. A bad cold vs. an evasive blizzard of lies

Oh Dear God, I was so shocked by his hoarse delivery!

[Iris]

137. Ah. That explains a lot.

I thought he seemed dehydrated. Did they have water at the podiums?

[valleyrogue]

15. It is inexcusable

It is inexcusable especially in light of reports that Biden was sick with a cold. If Biden had cancelled, the comments would be even worse.

At least Biden has a legitimate excuse. What is Trump's for lying constantly?

[Doodley]

16. For Biden to pull ahead, he must allievaite

concerns about his age. Whether those concerns are justified or not, they are measured by polling companies as a major factor. Tonight increased those concerns, and already there are many headlines talking about that in a very negative way. If this narrative takes on a life of it's own, Trump will move into a commanding lead.

[ancianita]

28. Trump is the old man. Biden must "alleviate" his cold. Anyone "concerned" about the narrative caves to ageism and fear.

[oldsoftie]

209. A "cold" doesnt give us what we got.

And if ANYONE running the campaign was thinking ahead they would've mentioned the President having a cold BEFORE the debate and that he was going to continue with the debate anyway.

[getagrip_already]

19. Trolls are out in force......

Unfortunately forum rules don't really let us call them out. It would be attacking other users.

But there are a lot of newer/lower post count negative posters out tonight.

Some older higher post count anti biden posters also. But they never miss a chance to make a point.

But, it comes with the medium. Just realize many are trolls.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

89. Noticed that too

Many long time members with low post counts come out at times like this.

[Prairie Gates]

144. The ones with high post counts are more troubling, to be honest

[WDLAL]

21. This debate will be a dim memory for most Americans in a few short weeks.

[Martin Eden]

24. Democrats have to do whatever it takes to win this election

Would a different candidate at this late date inject some real excitement and help GOTV -- and win?

I don't know.

But I'm fairly certain President Biden will NOT drop out, so we have to do whatever it takes to help Joe win!

[ancianita]

25. THANK YOU FOR "FIGURE IT THE FUCK OUT."

Last edited Fri Jun 28, 2024, 12:32 AM - Edit history (1)

AND EVERYTHING ELSE YOU SAID!

[karin_sj]

27. Hear hear!

Agree 100 percent!

[MaryMagdaline]

30. Agree. We need to get out talking points ready and get going.

Trump:
The unemployed guy.
Fraud.
Convicted felon.
Deranged
Traitor
Would leave our allies to die in Ukraine.
Putin’s puppet

[Ocelot II]

39. Bullshit.

[SoFlaBro]

44. Fuck that. I'm with Joe all the fucking way Trump is fucking shit.

[somaticexperiencing]

99. of course Trump is shit.

[VMA131Marine]

68. Someone alert on this bullshit, please!

[Hekate]

74. Do so. You know where the button is...

[PortTack]

76. Google or look it up on you tube what Gavin Newson has to say to ppl like you.

Get on the democratic wagon or GET OFF!!

Support our candidate!!

[claudette]

115. Newsom

said we should have Biden's back the same way he has ours. I ♥️ him and President Biden.

[Drum]

33. Gee thanks for setting us all straight.

I needed a scolding, after this evening’s goings-on.

[Irish_Dem]

127. Yes. Shaming and scolding shocked/fearful people is not the right strategy.

It is counterproductive.

[nilram]

34. k & R!

[SunSeeker]

35. K & R

[Pachamama]

40. During the debate I had 16 different people texting with me - all big supporters of Biden

Every single one of them said Joe should step down - they are lol different ages, Genders, demographics.

Say what you want about this Forum and what should be said or not said - but that I had all these people who avidly support Biden and The Democratic Party saying this says what needs to be said and if not - or being hidden and denied - then we are all in trouble and not willing to face the situation and respond appropriately.

[PortTack]

78. See post #76!

Shame on you!!

[Pachamama]

84. Shame on me?

I have been a DUer a decade before you and a dedicated and committed Democrat and proud American.

No shame here

But personal attack and criticism seems just fine with you.

[oldsoftie]

210. We shouldn't be afraid to discuss legitimate issues/problems.

But by God you better watch out if you touch the wrong nerve! Even posts containing actual facts can get hidden because the facts aren't popular.

[oldsoftie]

225. Welcome to the club!

And if you appeal you never get a response.
Just in the past 3 days I've been on several juries for alerts that were just ridiculous. I only vote to remove actual insults/personal attacks; the rest? Well, if you think the person is wrong then defend your position & provide facts.
Thats getting harder to do here.

[JohnSJ]

83. I guess these "avid supporter" have no idea what going into an open convention would mean. Chaos. It is

pathetic that some people are so weak. One bad debate, and they want to throw the towel in.

When Hillary had her bout with pneumonia, the same bullshit occurred.

Disgusting

[Pachamama]

87. You are entitled to your opinion as are others

These are all intelligent people who I respect very much. They are all different and many don’t know each other - some do. But even if you or I or the entire DU thinks they are wrong - dismissing them and their opinions as irrelevant is a big mistake.

[JohnSJ]

91. Let me ask you one question. Are any of those intelligent people not going to vote for Biden?

I suspect the answer is they will all vote for Biden.

The question is what will the undecided people do, and every anecdotal group session of undecideds I have heard about regarding the debate were split down the middle, with those participants recognizing that trump was lying through his teeth.

Are the majority of women really going to vote for trump?

Are the majority of minorities really going to vote for trump?

Are the majority of labor, those who care for the environment, etc. really going to vote for trump?

We will see.

but one thing I do know, going into an open convention would be even more of a disaster, and divide the party even more than it was in 2016.

[Pachamama]

96. It's not that they won't vote for Biden - they will indeed

One of them is even a delegate and another works in Congress as a Senior Staffer.

It’s that there are many people who aren’t or haven’t been excited and may not vote in this election - Biden needs those people to win this election.

They know this and are rightfully worried and that is why I said it’s important to acknowledge this and be prepared.

And what I sensed more than anything is that each and everyone is indeed worried about Joe Biden’s health.

An open convention is a possibility that can’t be ignored and to just hope it away and not prepare is an even bigger disaster.

Seeing the attacks on longtime DUers like myself who are stating what they are hearing happening and dismissing our concerns is a big mistake.

[JohnSJ]

105. I am not attacking you, I am just disagreeing with your assessment. To call a race

based on a bad performance in a debate is not justified.

I suspect that the poll numbers will not move needle one bit based on this debate. If they did significantly, that might suggest a legitimate argument.

Let me put it another way, when rev wright came out with his extreme rhetoric, a significant concern was voiced about Obama, and his association with Wright. Several days after that, Obama came out to refute what wright had said, and to distance himself from him in no uncertain terms, and turned around what seemed like a certain loss.

Let's see what Biden and his team do, and what damage control is applied, before we say it is over before it has begun. Let's also see what the polls show against trump in the next few days.

The biggest problem as I see it will be the MSM push polling the question should President Biden drop out. I wish they wouldn't, but I am pretty sure they will, and emotionally that will trigger a gut reaction, not logically where those from the left will say absolutely, thinking their ideal candidate should be from the left, and those more centrist will say yes, thinking their ideal candidate from the middle, and if President Biden did drop out, and it went to an open convention, this would result in a worse division than 2016, which is still being fought within the party, and I predict if that happens it would be a disaster.

[Pachamama]

108. Agreed on all your points

[JohnSJ]

110. Let's hope for the best, and GOTV

[Pachamama]

111. Indeed

[WordsFromOurSponsor]

165. It's not just the vote

Biden doesn't just need people enthusiastic to vote for him. He needs activists that are enthusiastic to knock doors for him and sell his candidacy to low info voters. If you give activists a product that is past date and spoiled to sell, are they going to go out and enthusiastically knock doors and ask someone to take a big gulp of the expired milk they're selling? Tough sell.

[Frank D. Lincoln]

198. The future - anything is possible.

There are so many different scenarios, some more probable than others, that could unfold between now and November.

Regarding Biden, I think the most probable scenario is that he's going to become the Democratic nominee (but I could turn out to be wrong).

Regarding Trump, I actually think it's slightly less probable that he'll become the Republican nominee due to his current legal predicament. Although the odds are against Trump receiving a prison sentence on July 11, four days before the Republican convention on July 15, that could happen. Republicans would likely still nominate him but that would greatly complicate things for them and Trump.

In contrast, all Biden has working against him is last night's poor debate performance (and remember, at that gathering immediately following the debate, he seemed to be fine). I'd much rather be Biden than Trump.

My own personal plan under the circumstances is to double down on supporting Biden. If nothing else, Biden has proven conclusively that he's the comeback kid.

Although I might end up with egg on my face, my prediction is that Biden will go on to be reelected with more electoral votes than he received in 2020.

[FakeNoose]

215. Yes! I totally agree with you 100%

I'm not going to respond to all the trollish posts (that I find very depressing!) because I think things will settle down in the next couple of days. Your response is perfect. We've got this.

[oldsoftie]

211. There wouldnt be an open convention. That would be foolish.

IF he decided he didnt want to proceed it would be done after he's nominated. The laws about it are specific

[kcr]

103. But Joe isn't going to step down

Are these avid supporters still going to vote for him? I bet they will, if they are as avid as you say.

[Pachamama]

109. See Post#96 n/t

[kcr]

114. Well, ok

But Biden still isn't going to step down. Their freaking out over it doesn't change a thing. Moreover, Biden stepping down would be an actual disaster. It would virtually ensure Trump's win.

Mushy middle focus groups have mostly stayed the same. Many of them seemed more concerned about Trump's lies. But in the end this won't matter. It's early, and debates don't have much of an effect on voters.

[honest.abe]

131. I think there are many loyal Dems feeling the same way.

I loveJoe but was hoping he didn’t seek a second term due to his aging. I didn’t watch the debate since I can’t stand seeing or hearing anything from that asshole Trump.but it’s clear we are in trouble. I don’t know what it would take to nominate someone else but we need to look at all options. Winning in Nov is all that matters at this point.

[bamagal62]

41. The Biden stepping aside

Is troll worthy, he’s our candidate. But, we are all worried because the mainstream media is going to spin it in Trumps direction. They want him to win. So the fretting is genuine. Hopefully it’s true that no one will remember it in 3 weeks. I will admit it was hard to watch. I had to leave the room. But I also think it won’t matter over time. I can’t imagine that there is ANYONE that has not made up their mind. I think that there are people out there waiting to see a debate performance to influence their vote is all bullsh:t. I don’t know any of those people.

[kcr]

104. Agreed

I know people are panicking, but the calls for Biden to step aside are idiotic.

[GenThePerservering]

45. Trump isn't going to do you a damn bit of good.

and he won't solve your problems.

[orange jar]

48. You're really thinking about voting for Trump?

After all he's done? Are you fucking serious?

[C Moon]

97. No. He can't vote from Russia.

[AllyCat]

164. Oh, do we have the '24 version of JPR here to spread their

treasonous sunshine? Glad I didn't see this before it was removed. Hope it was a disruptor, not a regular.

[orange jar]

195. They had a star membership.

So I'm not sure.

[AllyCat]

196. OMG. I actually have a list of folks I think might out

Themselves this election. Wonder if it was one of them.

[Celerity]

62. you seem nice

[Dem4life1234]

65. Why?

Why the fuck would you vote for a treasonous felon?

[William769]

69. What maga website did you take that screed from?

[FHRRK]

70. Is it the same guy you voted for in 2016 and 2020?

Need some clarification

[C Moon]

94. Hitler?

[GenThePerservering]

43. We keep going

We keep rising. Even Julius Caesar lost battles, and he would do what he called a 'strategic retreat', regroup, rethink and come back harder and win. And no one is going to assassinate Joe!

[Fearless]

47. The biggest flaw

The biggest flaw of the Democratic Party in the last 10 years is that it tries to force people to vote for Candidate A by threat of what will happen if they don't. It's the same tactic they've used on non-White voters for about 60 years. Eventually it stops working.

All Biden had to do tonight was inspire voters.

That's literally it.

How many voters do you think decided tonight that they are going to vote for him as a result of the debate tonight?

You can yell and curse all you want. But it doesn't help.

Biden wins EVERY debate on the facts. Trump is a liar. He needs to inspire voters.

I am as left as they come. And I am DEEPLY concerned about a Trump presidency. And I'm DEEPLY concerned about the result of the debate tonight. I'm also DEEPLY concerned that Biden may drag down Senate races and get us stuck with a 40 year old Alito and Thomas replacement by Trump.

[jaxexpat]

133. Good and fair post. Biden is the best president I've seen in my lifetime and that started with Truman.

While the media has generally done its level best to create both candidates as equal, he is miles above that louse, the Republican candidate. If there is concern on the part of Democrats, it should be about the enthusiasm level of their fellow citizens. There are so many who would gladly pull the Democratic lever at every election but require additional connectivity to make the effort and go to their polling places. That is where we are at this juncture. Our fear should be about the salability of our product.

Was there ever a doubt in anyone's mind that Trump would triple down on lying and miscasting history? I wonder; how many could stand with dignity and deflect such an incredible volume of malodorous bloviation? The debate was always going to be a contest of endurance over policy. Trump has the energy to fabricate sentences, on the spot, for hours. He revels in it, and it doesn't matter if there is any sense to what he says. He just keeps rolling out the craziness, waving his hands like a demented magician. Biden has the policy down to an artform, a cognitive and coherent view and methodology to sustain the nation for decades.

So much, maybe too much, was invested in the significance of this TeeVee performance. This debate resembled watching a man teaching algebra to a dog. Similarly, the effort did nothing to inform (or damage) the dog even as it left the teacher a bit haggard and the observer a bit unsettled. But what would one expect, anyway?

[onecaliberal]

49. K&R x 1000000000000000000

[videohead5]

61. Biden does not have dementia

You sound like MAGA. He had a bad cold and stuttered.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

88. Agreed

My mother had dementia. Her behavior was more similar to Trump's.

[dwayneb]

142. Actually anyone over 65 has some level of "dementia"

Once we get older, our mental faculties decline. Affects every one of us, because our brains shrink as we get into the last third of our life. Memory and cognition go on the decline.

I think it's very unlikely that either candidate has Alzheimer's which is probably what people mean when they use this word.

Point is, that it is unsurprising when we see candidates of this age speaking having lapses.

[intelpug]

178. Mental acuity

I realize this is somewhat off topic and I apologize. I am speaking for myself here, In anybody's opinion do's prevogen work as advertised for mental acuity? The older I get the more trouble I have remembering name's event's ect

[dwayneb]

229. Haven't used it but from everything I read it is snake oil

[PortTack]

80. You think the RW crazies aren't right now eating up what you're saying? Did a really good thing did you?

[jalan48]

51. It's not the people on this site that are the problem.

It's the voters who pay little attention to politics except for big events like tonight's debate. It isn't the people on this site who will be responsible for righting the ship, it's Biden and his management team who will be responsible.

[W_HAMILTON]

52. People that pay little attention to politics aren't paying attention now either.

Check back after Labor Day.

[emulatorloo]

57. +++++

[emulatorloo]

59. Have you been following the focus groups of undecideds/swing voters?

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Dem4life1234]

53. He has my support!

I am beyond incensed and I will support Biden.

[wss2001]

56. Exactly!!

Every fucking time Trump goes on some tangent about sharks or cancer causing windmills you don’t have his supporters getting their panties in a twist they come out fighting and deflecting. We need some Goddamn loyalty here!! Biden is our candidate. We need to get behind him or our country is going to become the Unified Reich that Trump dreams about!

[emulatorloo]

71. Not looking too good for Trump's election. Undecided and swing voter focus groups:

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

If you haven't been watching the Univision FG of undecided Latino voters, nearly every single undecided voter said they now support Biden, not Trump! Latinos were watching and listening and Trump sounded like a crazy liar. Watch this video clip from @uninot

David Plouffe says Trump's debate performance did poorly with swing voters in focus groups, "No one was saying I am really excited about Donald Trump coming back
to the presidency. He reconfirmed all the reasons they voted against him in 2020."

BTW welcome to DU, stanky!

[William769]

73. It's not looking to goood for you.

[sandyd921]

60. Get out there!

Joe needs to get out there and keep getting out there in various formats, particularly ones in which he interacts directly with real people. That’s the way to tackle the issues from this. The more the better. There’s prior evidence he can do just fine. Looks like he happened to come down with a cold or something at the wrong time.

[Nimble_Idea]

64. Gavin doesn't need to come, neither do I

We are both supporting our nominee Joe Biden. did people from TYT infiltrate and come crying or something?

I did not watch the debate, because it doesn't matter to me. I thought it was ill advised to give the orange clown a forum to speak to America, and for that....some people should be fired.

This election won't be about debates.

This is about women's right to their own bodies and not carrying their father's or uncle's baby.
Whether we let dictators and trashcans like dump terrorize the world.
If we have competence and progress in science or health. Or having 10 commandments in every room in America, so we can watch our overlords break them and then punish YOU for it.

And the only line of defense against selling every human on earth out, for corporate greed.

[Hekate]

72. Amen, ed. It has been rough around here for months, but I believe we will survive& thrive....

…eventually.

I’ve been turning in and out of DU this afternoon and evening, hoping for succor after tuning in late to the debate and seeing a version of this:



I’m visiting for the week in a teetotal home, and damn I would like a small scotch tonight. Tomorrow should be better, or at least most will be on a more even keel.

[Grokenstein]

77. Not just this forum, but your point stands.

Last edited Fri Jun 28, 2024, 02:27 AM - Edit history (1)

At least one clown posted a full article tantrum at DK about how they "don't want to listen to anyone who says tonight wasn't a complete disaster" and clawing at their hair for multiple paragraphs.

To what end? What's their point? Are we to throw in the towel at the first perceived setback? YU GUIZE, WEER DOOMD, SERIUSLY YU GUIZE!!1!

Bullshit. It's not even July yet. Tomorrow, dim donnie will be babbling psychotic nonsense again. If tonight changed anyone's mind to switch to dim donnie, they're an idiot. If it changes enough minds to put him back in the Oval Office, America was doomed anyway. Don't let that be true.

We need to keep getting the message out, not tearing our shirts and crying. Biden is doing this nation good. The doomsayers can go take a high jump.

[Cha]

86. TY Not some of us.

[camartinwv]

90. I back Biden all the way. He has stood by us and I am standing by him.

He had a bad debate so what. He had a cold probably took med to manage cough and runny nose. Joe Biden is a top notch President and he’s my candidate.

[HeartsCanHope]

92. I totally agree with you, edisdead!

New poster here, so be gentle!
I am old enough to remember other presidential elections where the incumbent totally bombed the first debate, one of whom is my beloved President Obama. (Obama turned me into a dem! Bless him!) It was Joe Biden that helped him recover from that first debate, and keep going. I agree, edisdead, that we must do the same for Joe. Trust Joe. Vote, donate if you can, and take a deep, deep breath. Joe's got this.
Trump sounded unhinged, as always. His crazy was on display for EVERYONE to see. The republicans can try to spin it all they want, but Trump can't even answer simple questions! (What was with the golf stuff? What does that have to do with any of the topics?? almost as bad as the shark and electric battery stuff!)
Still riding with Biden--all the way!

[anglesphere]

93. You never agree to debate a would-be authoritarian

They are beneath debate.

That said, nothing Biden could have done on that stage could make me not vote against the authoritarian and convicted felon.

[Lemon Lyman]

102. Yup!

Last edited Sat Jun 29, 2024, 01:16 AM - Edit history (1)

One good thing about times like this is that I get to beef up my "ignore" list. I'm not being funny. It's nice to be able to weed out those who irritate me here and on Twitter. They really show their azz in times like this. This makes it easy to not have to wade through their crappy posts next time.

[JohnSJ]

106. +++

[Lemon Lyman]

107. :-)

Pisses me off seeing crappy takes & headlines. Got an alert on my Apple Watch from CNN or another news source. It read:

"Biden's poor showing & trump's falsehoods"

Couple of things.

1) It's not "falsehoods." It's "LIES." I'm so sick of the kid gloves with which numnutz and the entire r party get treated. The media always bends over backward to kiss rw ass and appear deferential to them.

2) Is it not a poor showing if somebody is lying nonstop?

This all reminds me of the first debate President Obama had with romney. President Obama looked a bit tired. romney was more energetic. But romney lied & gish galloped all over the place. Why does that not count as a negative?

It's like we're looking at cars on a lot and fawning over whichever one looked better. Uhh..what's under the hood??

[Rhiannon12866]

112. The hack happened in 2016, you've only been here since last year.

[kevink077]

113. Everyone pause-take a deep breath

Biden hates trump more than he loves being president, and is a true patriot. If he thinks he should drop out/ he will. We have the be honest though, that was rough. Everyone take a chill pill and Biden and democrats will do the right thing…

[pattyloutwo]

119. Good advice

If he does decide to step down, it’ll be okay. We’ll beat Trump.

[Roy Rolling]

116. Everyone's Concern

Joe’s performance had strong points and weak points. He is infinitely better in every measure, but debates are graded on performance.

Any performance weakness was caused by being over-prepared. His handlers crammed too many facts and figures to enunciate in the first two minutes. He seemed rushed.

His handlers should have known not to exaggerate Joe’s speech challenges with a litany of facts and figures from the opening bell. And a full dress rehearsal would have shown these obvious production shortcomings before they aired on national TV.

Joe’s performance was admirable, but his debate handlers need to be replaced. Democrats have a decisive edge in creative artistry and should hire Hollywood and New York’s best.

[pattyloutwo]

120. Not what I saw

I don’t think it was about the handlers, if you watch it objectively. His age has crept in to affect his memory and communication. His heart is in the right place; I really feel for him.

[JustAnotherGen]

126. He was sick

It showed in his eyes -and he stuttered.

Trump has the look of heart failure edema. A girl can hope.

[Abstractartist]

123. Anyone remember

Anyone remember the Obama/ Romney debates? I do. President Obama looked horrendous in the first debate. Stared out, didn’t seem to answer briskly and articulate. It was in the bag… Romney was the next president. Dick Morris was totally sure of it. Ooooops…..(remember Dick Morris… yeah, me either)….then came debate 2…… and the Romney secret tape recording…

I believe there are 2 debates scheduled. History tends to repeat itself. Joe and his team will be prepared. Joe will be rested and ready, and the tables will be reversed.

[Diraven]

124. I got my original account banned for way less

During the 2020 primaries I literally just said Biden was boring. Instant account ban for attacking a Democrat. Now people here are saying he's awful and can't win and we need to dump him ASAP and they're hailed as the honest pragmatists.

[shrike3]

218. Curious, isn't it?

[Sunsky]

130. I totally agree

This is why I've stayed off the forum. Did Biden have his best performance? No. Did Trump win the debate? No. Biden had a slow start. . However, he regained his ground in the middle to the end. IMO the bar was placed (by us) too high for Biden leading up to this debate and way too low for Trump. Biden has the weight of our survival as a democracy hanging on his shoulders. Trump only worries about his own survival.

The media is chastising Biden while giving Trump a pass. MSNBC was a disaster to watch. Trump didn't debate at all. He came prepared with a handful of lies. No debate prep was needed because he didn't come to debate. He used those prepared talking points throughout the night. He had no respect for the questions asked, he just fired off his prepared talking points. This also seemed to distract Biden who was juggling between managing his stuttering, responding to the question posed by the moderator and Trump's off tangent lies.

The moderators also kept time checking Biden while Trump was allowed to ramble off tangent. They rarely demanded that he answered the questions. If any grace should've been given, it should've been to the man with a speech impediment, not the rambling lunatic who didn't even care to listen to the question.

[WinstonSmith4740]

132. Thank you!

Been here almost since the beginning, and there are way more hand-wringers and lots more "hair on fire" than in the past. But there are also a lot more trolls and folks that are here just to stir things up. i'm sure the RW websites are on fire this morning citing posts from this forum with the heading "Liberals are panicking" & "Even the liberals want Joe to drop out".

Settle down folks. Remember, this is the "silly season" in politics. I'm willing to bet a vast majority of the people watching that debate were the people who were already involved, and were not in the "undecided" column. Nobody who has already decided to vote for Joe changed their minds last night, because we all know how dangerous Trump is.

With that being said, I do need to add one thing, and I've been saying this since Carter. The Democratic Party needs less "political consultants" advising them. HIre a damn sales manager. My late husband was one of those "could sell ice to Eskimos" guys. When he joined the industry I had been working in, he taught me more about sales in his first month than I had learned in the previous 5 years. They're fighting a damn salesman who, yes, is a total con artist, but the bastard knows how to sell. How else can you explain people at his rallys now agreeing that this country needs a dictator???

[Lanius]

151. i'm sure the RW websites are on fire this morning citing posts from this forum with the heading "Liberals are panicking

i'm sure the RW websites are on fire this morning citing posts from this forum with the heading "Liberals are panicking" & "Even the liberals want Joe to drop out" & "Even the liberals want Joe to drop out".

That's exactly what's going on. Democrats and progressives need to calm down because, at this point, they're just helping to undermine their candidate.

With that being said, I do need to add one thing, and I've been saying this since Carter. The Democratic Party needs less "political consultants" advising them. HIre a damn sales manager. My late husband was one of those "could sell ice to Eskimos" guys. When he joined the industry I had been working in, he taught me more about sales in his first month than I had learned in the previous 5 years. They're fighting a damn salesman who, yes, is a total con artist, but the bastard knows how to sell. How else can you explain people at his rallys now agreeing that this country needs a dictator???

A bunch of the people freaking out about Biden's performance are the Democratic consultants. It's no wonder why Democrats have lost so many winnable elections in the last 20 years. In addition to new leaders, the party needs a new slate of advisors.

[ms liberty]

134. The whole debate was awful. A farrago of lies from the convicted felon

And his usual rude, ignorant bloviating. Joe's voice sounded terrible, he talked too fast, and because he looked down and made notes when he wasn't speaking and looked off to the side as he listened the optics just sucked.
I still think Joe won by a hair, since he actually spoke with detail and depth about the last four years while the moran just blustered and bellowed like the corpulent trash he is and wouldn't answer a question with any depth or detail at all.
I think it's good that the debate happened now, and if there's another one, Joe has to be better- better voice, less stuffed with facts and with more snark. I expect there to be another debate now - the convicted felon will be puffed up from what he and his people see as a win, so he'll want to do it again. If he had done badly there's no way he'd do it again.
I think it will be fine, and I don't know who the people are saying Joe should drop out but they're out of their minds.

[Woodwizard]

135. The histrionic forum

Been here since Bush lurked for years finally got an account in 2013 do not post much.

Some of the more prolific posters could do the same, reactionary by the minute posting just keeps a state of agitation, the level of bullshit clickbait has gone way up.

Trump was there to antagonize and lie. I think it is hard to deal with that while trying to answer the questions and defend yourself from a barrage of crap.

If trump wins it will be from American stupidity not last nights debate. I would say by now just about anyone who votes has already made up their mind.

[MistakenLamb]

138. imagine running away from Biden accomplishments and the incumbency

fucking dumb as rocks those people. and those white democrats wanting a white man or a white woman stepping over MVP for the nomination at a convention ike some West Wing Aaron Sorkin dogshit can go fuck off, its Biden Harris then Harris that the choice. fuck out of here with Whitmer, Newsome or anyone else.

[Mr. Mustard 2023]

139. Bury your head in the sand,...

...hide behind your nobility, but President Biden's debate performance must be discussed. We're entering into the biggest election since 1864 and you want to pretend everything is okay, or ignore problems? No thanks.

I want to correct those problems, and ensure we have a backup plan as well. Do everything if you will, not put my fingers in my ears while berating my fellow Democrats.

What do we do if President Biden becomes too ill or infirm to campaign? What the fuck do we do?

This election is to save democracy and your telling us to pretend everything is fine. NO.

I will discuss, I will consider and then I will act in the best interests of the Democratic Party and the U.S.A.

What I will not do is be told to play make believe. I will do everything I can to ensure President Biden is re-elected.

Hey - WTF do we do if President Biden goes down? What do we do? Your way, we will be surprised and unprepared which will could lead to defeat, because then the Republicons will declare us incompetent and the low info voters may agree.

Are we going to run Vice President Harris or a safe white male? Or urge Vice President Harris to choose a safe white male as her VP?

What do we do if President Biden is fading? Oh right - according to you we should pretend it's not happening. Good strategy there friend.

We spin this debate, hope it is just President Biden's cold and he bounces back and kicks ass. We give President Biden the benefit of every doubt, but we better be fucking prepared for the worse, because let me tell you something...

...President Biden looks bad. He looked bad to me about 5 days ago when I saw him in real time, not staged photo ops, and then last night he was clearly sick, but he looked feeble.

But suuuuurrrrrreeeee....I'll shut up and sit down. Nope, I'll be constructive, helpful and discuss our problems behind closed doors but we MUST have a backup plan because this IS the most important election since 1864.

[pattyloutwo]

183. Voice of reason - thanks!

I can’t believe the rampant denial here! People want reality to fit what they want rather than what is! We need a whirlwind change with a viable candidate that energizes dems!

[shrike3]

217. And what candidate would that be?

[shrike3]

216. Replacing a candidate at this point would be a herculean effort.

He/she would start out with no money. The funds Biden's raised would not transfer to a new candidate. Then there would be the task of picking someone. Whom? Every candidate mentioned polls worse against Trump than Biden. There'd be no clear replacement and likely a bruising fight at the convention. Remember 2016? That'd look like a cakewalk.

Saw Biden in real time? Lucky you. Where? You do know presidents look bad, right? It's a tough job. Obama aged before our eyes. Clinton used to look like he'd been up for days. Bush and Trump not so much, because, well ...

What kind of back-up plan would you suggest, pray tell? Ideas?

[poozwah]

141. agreed

great post. americans are dumb and getting dumber. biden’s performance LAST NIGHT was not that great, but his performance since 1/20/21 has been excellent. the fact that a criminal is even in this race says more about the mental acuity of the population than it does about biden’s supposed issue with age related decline. TRUMP IS A CRIMINAL!

[relayerbob]

143. Exactly Right. The term is ....

CLOSE RANKS! Holy shit, people. The "decided" voters aren't going to change their minds after last night, and the undecideds, assuming any watched, are going to have the same choice they had yesterday, only one of them had a fucking cold.

Joe for the win

[Martin68]

145. I get it. When I was younger every little thing seemed like the best or the worst thing that could happen. This is

not the end of the world, nor is it the end of the campaign. Our support is needed now more than ever, and we all can agree that we've got to beat Trump. Changing horses in mid stream would be a huge mistake at this point. Keep your eye on the prize.

[Cosmocat]

146. This ...

nm

[Lanius]

148. Yeah Democrats and progressives really need to grow a pair and stop freaking out. Biden will recover.

Yeah he was weak, especially early in the debate, but he got better as it progressed. People will mostly forget about this if he gets out on the campaign trail and looks and sounds better as we get closer to November.

It pains me that instead of buckling down and supporting their candidate, some Democrats are having a meltdown and saying he should step down. That's absurd.

[iemanja]

150. The problem isn't committed Democrats

There is nothing Biden can do to lose my vote. The issue is swing voters who are looking to the debates to make up their minds. Why do people always think it's about themselves?

[Lanius]

188. I don't agree. A committed Democrat isn't necessarily a Biden supporter. But that's just my experience.

I'm a Biden supporter, however, and I''ll vote for him on his deathbed over Trump.

[TheKentuckian]

205. Makes it easier to point fingers while whistling past the graveyard that way.

It is also food for a weird culture of no responsibility for candidates like they have no role in securing votes at all other than maybe show up breathing which also seems to be pushing the bounds of reasonable expectations.

The inanity of responding to a bad performance with nonsense like "So, you are going to vote for the democracy killing rapist then?!?", is off the meter stupid and utterly beside the point.

My vote is not in question but it takes more than us. That is simple math.

[Lanius]

191. You misinterpreted my post. Progressives aren't all Democrats, even if they usually vote for Democrats.

Democrats are registered members of the Democratic Party. Progressivism is a political philosophy. Some progressives are Democrats, and some aren't.

[vankuria]

149. Problem is

The bar is set so low for the GOP, if a candidate can string together a sentence that’s semi literate they get props. President Biden has a much tougher mountain to climb, obviously the bar is set very high as it should be. What’s ironic is at the State Of The Union he was very forceful and was criticized for being on drugs, so no matter what he’s not in a good position I would guess. Democrats need to stop criticizing this one performance because he was hoarse from a cold, while trump did his usual shtick of bullying, lying and being an all around dipshit, nothing new here. PLEASE a support our candidate because the alternative will be devastating to the the country and the world!!!

[NH Ethylene]

152. We were not alone.

I was stunned when MSNBC panelists said Dem campaign people were in a panic and pondering replacing Biden as the candidate.

I don't know what they are saying this morning, but I hope they have calmed down.

[Lanius]

153. MSNBC was a disgrace last night, especially Jen Psaki

The hang-wringing was off the charts. I had to turn the TV off after a few minutes. If Trump had performed poorly, Fox News and the Republicans would somehow have spun the debate as a "win" for him. Instead, Democrats get hysterical and start talking about possibly replacing their candidate at the convention. It's absurd.

[LonePirate]

154. We all witnessed and experienced the horrors of 2017-2021.

The 2016 election results caught many Dems by surprise. Plenty of people are fearful of a loss this year considering what happened when he won in 2016. Everything indicates another win would be even worse for America. People are scared and are looking for the best possible way to prevent another win for him. Last night’s debate made people feel like they were pushed from an airplane without a parachute.

[XanaDUer2]

160. This nt

[iemanja]

166. I love how people think that if they control speech on DU

the world's problems are solved. DU isn't the problem. I find it strange that so many think it is.

[JT45242]

168. Big difference between legitimate concern over his ability to GOTV and wanting him to drop out

I will ride or die with Joe for this election.

That does not make my concerns about getting out the vote (particularly in the 18-30 age range) disloyal. They are realistic concerns about what we can do.

Let us all have a day or two to gloat or mourn about how good/bad that debate was. Then we have from July 1 until election day to focus on the most important things: getting people to show up and vote for issues that matter to them: women's health care, overall health care, making the rich pay their fair share, and protecting and expanding Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security.

We need to win not just the presidency but also both houses of congress or their will be no accomplishments and Project 2025 will just get repackaged in 2029

[Escurumbele]

169. "Biden is our candidate." THSAT IS CORRECT. The choice is between an honest & decent man, Biden, who has done

fantastically well as President and a bad debate does not define him, versus an indecent, immoral crook, who is a racist, a rapist, a fraud, a traitor and I could go on and on.

Are we upset and a bit frustrated that Biden did not bring his "A" game? Of course we are, we wanted to see the man who was at the podium during the last State of the Union, but we don't know the circumstances, and lets hope he does bring his "A" game on the new debate.

If it had been my choice, I would have not debated the buffoon, we know that all he brings is lies, so why give him the stage?

But anyway, the issue is very simple, Biden IS our candidate, and we must not only support him but help change minds who only make decisions based on a bad debate, let us not forget that Obama's first debate was not good, but he came stronger and wiped the floor with Romney, I know Biden will do the same, but once again, a debate does not define the man who has been the leader of the World and done very well.

[SpankMe]

170. Used the work "fuck" 11 times. Very cool. n/t

[CaptainTruth]

171. Now THAT is a pep talk!

I didn't think I could be any more fired up for this election, but now I am.

[megapuzzler]

172. Sing it!

[blue-wave]

173. Bravo!

I'm ridin' with Biden!!

[FelineOverlord]

174. Totally agree

So much doom and gloom.

If people want to win this election they need to stop and VOLUNTEER their time, but no one here seems interested.

There have been several threads by different people on here about how to volunteer but very few responses.

It was organizing and volunteering that had us flip 40 House seats and 7 governorships in 2018.

Now, I’m going back to my lunch at the Jersey Shore and planning next steps.

And this weekend I am watching the Olympic trials for gymnastics.

[brooklynite]

192. On what basis do you assume people here aren't interested in volunteering?

[Silent Type]

177. I can see undecideds not voting for either candidate, which is probably a win for trump.

[Initech]

179. Seriously, last night was a definite L, and I accept that.

However, it's not *THE* L. We can bounce back from this. We cannot let Trump and his goons assume power under any circumstance, we should be united on that front. They will utterly destroy democracy and kill or jail anyone who opposes them. That has to be stopped at all costs!

[dem4decades]

180. Scold me for being honest, what happened last night was bad.

Don't blame me, I had nothing to do with it other than seeing it with my own eyes.

[TheSame_TurnTwo363]

182. h/t couldn't agree more!

My sentiments exactly - people bailing on President Biden after one damn debate? Paraphrasing Mr. Hand, "what are you people on NYT dope?"

[MorbidButterflyTat]

199. NO.

FEAR is what's driving this ridiculous narrative of replacing an effective, empathetic incumbent president with...some mystery superhero savior who will swoop in and save American democracy.

So people saw Gavin Newsom repping President Biden last night and fantasize him wearing the magical cape. Or, who?

INSANITY.

[wolfie001]

190. Joe Biden!!!!

All the way!!!

[FakeNoose]

200. Stay calm and GET OUT THE VOTE

That is all.

[barbtries]

201. thank you.

of course he's our candidate and he must win.

i have avoided DU since the debate started for just this reason. I feel a lot of dread over it but there's no turning back and let's be real, he's been possibly the best president of my lifetime. he will continue to be.

[thesquanderer]

203. re: " If I cannot find enthusiasm for our president and candidate here, what is the point of coming here at all?"

I think there are two ways to see DU... as a site of cheerleaders for the Democrats, or as a site where like-minded (i.e. liberal) people can talk politics. Often those two perspectives can overlap, and sometimes they can be somewhat at odds. Nobody on DU would want Trump to beat Biden, but some may be focussed on cheerleading for Biden, while others may want to discuss things more objectively (cheerleading, by its nature, not being conducive to objective analysis). Or maybe I'm wrong, and the latter group is not welcome here, this is not the site for them?

Which I guess brings me to where you said, "If you cannot sell hope and the message then it IS OVER." My feeling is that we do not need to sell the message to fellow DU members. We all want the same thing. And I'm not sure how much benefit there is to us being pollyanna-ish to each other. What does that accomplish? It's not like many of us are likely to need any encouragement from each other to go out and vote for Biden. But I guess you could turn that around and say just as easily, what's the benefit of critical discussion? Keeping brain cells active, I guess.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

222. This can lead to less "discussion", and to making the threads more of a "spin room".

What does that accomplish?

Perhaps they think that the right will clip our posts and say, "see, even they think so".

Right before an election, they believe that any thing less than a totally optimistic viewpoint, dampens turnout.

[OverBurn]

206. I'd vote for Biden's corpse over the orange asshole. Having said that I think after the horrible debate we're in big

trouble. Yes everything out of Trump's horrible mouth was a lie. Everyone on this forum knows that. We're not in the air on who we are going to vote for. The general public in, my opinion, are not informed and most of them believe who comes across more forceful. Trump spoke better, clearer, he lies like most people breath.

My opinion might change later, but right now I'm trying to get my head around the reality that the orange idiot will be our next president. It's horrifying, the country will never be the same.

Am I overracting? I sure fuck hope so.

[DemocraticPatriot]

223. Yes, you're overreacting. :) It's ok to worry a little,

but let's not start anticipating another Trump term just yet.

While the debate was not good for President Biden, lying at least once on every question response was not good for Trump either. He gained no converts last night. Flash polling after the debate said that BOTH candidates lost 3 percent of their supporters-- a wash.... and a new poll out today, taken post-debate, showed President Biden 2 percentage points behind Trump-- within the margin of error, and within the range of the polls which we've been seeing for the past few weeks-- some which showed Trump ahead, and some which showed President Biden leading, and some tied. In other words, there is no evidence of any big shift away from President Biden.

Compared with most first debates in a general election, viewership was way down for this one, likely because of the early date.

As far as 'the orange idiot will be our next president', that is unilateral surrender in which you should not engage. There's a thing called 'the campaign' which is still underway for 4 plus months, there's the conventions and President Biden's acceptance speech, and I am confident he will give a good 'performance' there... and there may be another debate in the fall. There is plenty of time for last night to be forgotten.

Have you seen President Biden's rally speech in North Carolina today? Joe was ON FIRE, strong and full of piss and vinegar.
If you haven't seen it, you should watch it-- it'll make you feel better. It sure did the trick for me:
https://democraticunderground.com/100219073564
Joe starts at about 35:40
It's not very long, but makes up in passion what it lacks in length--
and won't take too long to watch it.

LET'S GO JOE! FOUR MORE YEARS!

[OverBurn]

228. Thanks, I needed that. Wish Joe had been that good in the debate. Horrible timing for a cold. We can win!

[modrepub]

212. The Difference Between Repub and Dem "Leaders"?

One group shows up and supports their candidate when they get a felony conviction. The other one can't answer a reporter's question about if their candidate should drop out because they had a bad cold for their first debate.

Sorry folks, but I'm ashamed of the Dem leadership's response to this situation. Pelosi and Jeffries and a lot of others didn't answer the bell.

[Jon Ace]

213. K & R

It's my first time back here in a VERY long time and the doom and gloom sentiment would get you chased out of here.

How things have changed...

[Silent3]

214. "sell sell sell the fucking message"

As far as I'm concerned, I'm here to discuss things, not to give sales pitches or pep talks. This is a discussion board, not a campaign site.

While it's perfectly legit to have rules that prevent trolling from non-Democrats, I find it incredibly narrow-minded and judgmental to conclude that every post that isn't cheering and encouragement is a form of "trolling".

If you're willing to write off Biden's poor debate performance as nothing to worry about, something that'll assuredly blow over, then it's crazy to conclude that mere posts on DU which aren't sunshine and roses are going to be what dooms the campaign, and saddle everyone here with the duty of being a campaign spokesperson.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

220. "why are YOU here?" To help us win

The path I suggest will often be a path you do not agree with.

[Aviation Pro]

224. Well said

Bravo Zulu.

[Linda ladeewolf]

230. Not a star

In my opinion Joe needs to stay in, he’s got this in spite of his feeling like crap on debate night. I’ve been sick for the last few days myself and I’m only 69. I haven’t recovered as well as he has. I’m voting straight democrat this fall, it doesn’t matter what a bunch of pundits say, they spend way too much time worrying about how things appear.

I'm one of your lurkers, been lurking for years. I find the star thing a bit of a downer, so I don’t bother posting, though I agree with some of you, but not all of you. I was on newsvine for years, and google plus until it closed, then on mewe. I found the put downs on Mewe a bit much, so I left it after 8 years. I don’t post here for the same reasons, this is in reply to the person who made comments about people who don’t post often coming out of the wood work. We have opinions but don’t really feel the need to share them.