Oh, for fuck's sake, people.

[Tommy Carcetti]

I did not watch yesterday’s debate; I’m currently on vacation, have already made up my mind as to who I’m voting for, and I wanted to spend the evening enjoying vacation things.

I see everyone is worked up because conventional wisdom is that President Biden had a subpar performance, and now everyone’s talking about how he’s too old and what not. Some even want him to step aside so we can exchange him for some newer, more exciting model like Gavin Fucking Newsome.

This is absurd. Ridiculous. Kafkaesque.

On one side you have people wanting the President to step aside because they thought he was disappointing at a debate. And if debate performances were an accurate barometer of electoral success in November, then we’d have President Gore or President Kerry or President Hillary.

So to freak out now—in June—is just plain silly.

On the other hand, you have a guy who not only was convicted of 34 felonies last month, but also was found liable for fraud, defamation and sexual assault. And who currently stands indicted in 3 other courts on charges ranging from election interference to knowingly withholding classified documents. And who was unprecedentedly impeached twice, with members of his own party voting for his removal. And who had an embarrassingly terrible one term track record as President and never held an average approval rating over 50% and never won a popular vote. And who was elbows deep in involvement with foreign adversaries like Vladimir Putin.

Who incited a violent insurrection at the US Capitol and who not only has never once apologized for that, but now lionizes the criminal participants.

And no one is calling for him to step aside. No one.

No, sorry, this is all fucking bullshit and all the Chicken Littles calling for President Biden to step aside need to calm the fuck down, because President Biden does not need to step aside. And if we’re cowardly enough to insist on someone different, they’ll go after that person just as hard. Maybe not over age, but certainly something.

Trumpism is a scourge on this country, this election is a referendum against it and I’d much rather go with the bird in the hand over the two in the bush.

Seriously, people.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going back on vacation now.

[dem4decades]

1. Enjoy your vacation.

[ShepKat]

2. Biden has good people working under him

That's huge. Can't say the same for the felon

[wnylib]

56. Campaign ending? What bullshit.

[peppertree]

59. I hope you're right

Because you'll be seeing Repug attack ads replaying that moment - and more - non-stop for the next four months.

Few if any Democrats will switch their votes or stay home because of them, sure - but as you know, elections are won or lost with swing voters.

And many of them will, sadly, will.

[wnylib]

63. 2012 Mitt Romney vs. Barack Obama, first debate.

Obama had to do well to counter the Tea Party, birtherism, and racism. He bombed. Badly. Very poor performance by a man previously known for his eloquence. Hate radio played it up, said that the debate proved that Obama was not up to the job. Attacked him for his "socialist" health care program, pushed the not a citizen claim. Fox TV gloated, bragged that Romney had just bagged the election and could not lose.

But he did. Obama was reelected.

It's not over.

Biden can recover. We can hit back with our own ads from the debate and Trump's nonstop, obvious lying juxtaposed with clips of the truth. We can show Biden from now on in videos that counter the image from the debate.

Reports about two demographics that Biden needs and that supposedly he was losing indicate that they were so angry over the Trump lies that they are backing Biden.

So, we can pull forward from this and Biden can win. Our democracy depends on it. For some, their lives depend on it.

[C Moon]

71. I'd forgotten about that. Thanks for bringing it up.

[wnylib]

75. I was on a phone banking team for Obama in 2012. We watched that debate together.

It was painful to see. We all knew that Obama had it in him to win and do a good job. He had already proven himself in his first term. We stuck by him, continued our phone calls and celebrated when he won.

I feel the same way about Biden. We know that he still has it in him to energize voters and win despite the debate last night. I watched his NC rally today. It was the Biden that we all know - energetic and fired up. He admitted his faults, but also promoted his accomplishments. The crowd was large and they loved it. This is paraphrased since I can't remember his words verbatim, but I loved when he said, "I might not be as young as I once was, or walk as fast as I once did, or debate as well as I used to, but I know what truth is. I have experience and I know what the job is. I know how to run this country."

The crowd went wild and shouted several rounds of "4 more years."

[COL Mustard]

84. I don't remember that debate

But I bet it was a lot closer to the election than this one was. Joe has time to recover. Remain calm and get out the vote!!!

[jaxexpat]

60. A bold and honest post. Now, the question is, what will cause people to go to the polls in November.

The issue isn't and never was "undecideds". That term and faulty concept is solely media generated. The issue is, who will go to the polls and vote at all? How many potential voters have been lost due to the "debate" performance? Have enough become disheartened that they'll just sit it out this time? Enough that Trump (and the neo-KKK's multi-state anti-voter initiatives) will celebrate a third Republican coup on the Oval Office this century? This time, abetted by the 30 months AWOL DOJ and a 2/3's corrupt USSC.

The question is, what will inspire a level of enthusiasm so great that the laziest or most depressive personality will get off their complacencies and vote this November? Can Joe do that?

How many "undecideds" will remember that Joe said he intended to be a single term president? I don't know, that doesn't matter to me because I will always vote for Democracy at every opportunity, but I'm sure Republicans will remind us. I am sure that every such reminder will encourage voter apathy just as I'm sure the enemy will count on it to.

I don't want to wake up to another Trump November morning, guys. I just don't.

[peppertree]

61. Why, thank you. This does indeed add a lot of uncertainty to the race.

Because however much we may hate saying it, this will sting - particularly, as you pointed out, on the enthusiasm score.

And not so much for the debate itself - but thanks to what will surely be a barrage of Repug attack ads using that very footage (plus the G-7 incident thrown in for added effect).

Then again, nominating someone else would be extremely risky - no matter how good the candidate. This has to be thought out carefully - and I know it will be.

We're in quite a predicament here - and there's no denying that.

[lees1975]

3. You nailed it.

Trumpism is a scourge on this country. This man is intentionally planning to undermine the constitution and become a dictator. That's what he wanted to do during his first administration and it will be worse this time around.

Actions speak louder than words. Trump had nothing to say last night. He lied every time he opened his mouth. If he thinks that immigrants seeking asylum are the biggest problem we face, he's deceived and if there are people who buy what he said, then they're dumber than he is. He offered nothing.
Not one thing. Everything he said was about money. Essentially, we can't stop Russia from taking over Ukraine because it costs too much. We have to kowtow to Kim Jong Un, China and Putin because it costs too much to oppose them. We can't be America anymore because it costs too much.

Granted, Biden did leave some good stuff out. We're still energy independent, and he just finished off a deal where he sold off half of our strategic oil reserves at a high price, amd bought back replacement at a lower cost, earning the government billions. He was the one who united NATO, after Trump destroyed it and we heard the lie over and over again that the alliance is only centered on money and that our help is dependent on them paying for it, not on history or friendship or alliance. Yes, we have inflation and everything costs more, mainly because Trump let the economy fall into ruin during COVID and was an incompetent idiot in handling a crisis that Biden had to clean up. And oh by the way, while inflation has added up to 20%, wage growth has exceeded that by 2%, and even though that hasn't evened itself out across the board, as Biden acknowledged and planned for, it means that we are living in the most prosperous economy our country has experienced in decades.

But this is where we are people. Trump lied through the whole debate and offered nothing. He's a failure as President, he's now a convicted felon and no appeal is going to overturn those verdicts, and he's likely going to prison. The candidate our party has nominated through the process is Joe Biden, and he's in his early 80's. He's never really been a good public speaker and he didn't have a good debate performance. So? Are we going to run around like idiots and wring our hands and concede, or are we going to to whatever it takes to keep that orange headed scum bag out of the White House?

You decide what you're going to do. I donated this morning and later on I'm working a phone bank.

[CanonRay]

4. I admire your positivity

[PortTack]

25. Agree...there was a terrible stench in the room..yes his flatulence, but more the stench out of his mouth gaslighting

[c-rational]

26. Well said less1975. Thank you.

[Eclipsenow]

92. Well said, but you're an adult.

Well said - and I agree with everything you said. But here's the thing. You're an adult. You measure an Administration by the strength of their policies, not the superficial performance of a reality TV event. I agree with you.

But a bunch of Australian blokes I was hanging out with a few nights back showed where the system - indeed - the whole culture is wrong. We're not living in "West Wing". This is "The Boys" - and all that glitzy superficial reality TV rubbish matters! Why? Because the rest of the country are not thinking adults. They're blind sheeple - following their Orange Man messiah unless something better turns up. Something shinier!

That's why I think Biden - as much as I love what he has achieved in your country - should immediately retire, swear in Kamala - and let her be the incumbent President that terminates the Orange Man once and for all!

And why am I - an Australian - commenting here?
We're scared mate.
The world is scared.
Of the Orange Man and Project 2025.

[Sneederbunk]

5. You need to watch the debate to know why there are concerns.

[onecaliberal]

7. We are concerned that a rapist who tried a coup is even allowed to run.

NOT that POTUS had a sore throat so Dems decided to shit themselves.

[KPN]

14. Of course we are! That's why so many voiced what

seemed to me to be feelings of distraught. Last night gave plenty of reason to feel that way. People here are not critical of Joe Biden. They are afraid that the orange piece of crap might actually win … and last night’s debate did not help that. Nobody here wants Joe Biden to lose, but to say last night wasn’t a problem is fatuous.

[onecaliberal]

17. Yes it was for the guy who lied repeatedly failing to answer even one question.

You can feel however you want about it.
I’m not concerned and wasn’t concerned about last night.
POTUS actually answered all question truthfully. He didn’t lie and evade. He didn’t have to talk about not fucking a porn star at a presidential debate.
Don’t assign your thought process or feelings to anyone but yourself. And don’t you dare try to gaslight or mansplain to me again.

[KPN]

24. My comments have nothing to do with who I thought

did better or who I will vote for. I didn’t see the debate, but listened to about 20 minutes of it on the radio while on the road. What I heard caused me to be concerned about impact on undecided and potential stay at home voters.

When i got home, the debate was over. I went to the DU debate thread and learned overwhelmingly that my reaction and concerns were not unfounded -- not by a long shot.

Paint a pretty picture if you like. But realistically, there is good reason to be concerned. I like Joe and have said many times here at DU that he’s the best President of my 73 year lifetime. That is exactly why I personally am very concerned. So please don’t try to tell me my concern is off base.

[onecaliberal]

29. For fucks sake.

Maybe look at what Independent voters and non voters thought. It’s interesting they don’t share your concern, and they overwhelmingly said Trump is and was awful and that they do not support him.

Subhuman starts at a 8 million person deficit, spent 4 more years killing people with covid. That’s tens of thousand for those who can do math. Add 20% of their base being Nikki Haley supporters that still refuse to support the fascist.
In all seriousness, it’s ridiculousness. Stop.

[KPN]

33. OFFS! Bye.

[whathehell]

66. Thank You.

I'm not in any way "giving up" on Biden, but claiming his performance last night was due soley to a cold is absurd.
No one is "shitting themselves" over a sore throat.

[Dorian Gray]

96. Gaslight?

Did you not see it?

Christ.

Trump sucked. His debate performance sucked. Everything about him sucks.

Biden needs to do better than he did at the debate. Not acknowledging that is not going to help anybody win here.

(And lest you also accuse me of mansplaining, I'm a woman, and I'm TERRIFIED of a Trump presidency.)

[PortTack]

23. Yes...ppl here are critical of president Biden! critical enough to call for him to step down.Be concerned about that!

[KPN]

31. I am concerned about that! That has nothing to do

with my comment.

[PortTack]

42. Disagree!

[AdamGG]

43. It wasn't just a sore throat

He had trouble with word finding, often allowed Trump lies and bullshit to go without an effective response, at times said non-sequitirs and just stopped, multiple times had the moderators tell him that he had 48 or however many seconds left and hadn't used his allotted time.

I understand trying to maintain unity to try to maximize enthusiasm to get the best result, but it's unfair to say people aren't good Democrats by being alarmed by what they saw.

[onecaliberal]

50. The mischaracterization and concern are noted.

Please note what you’re doing to help is aside from concern posting of course?

[AdamGG]

58. I'll donate more to the campaign and encourage people that

the threat of Trump - more court appointments, undermining/dissolving NATO, gutting environmental regulations, and far more must be stopped.

I will back the Democrat running against Trump, but I don't think that a new nominee at the convention would be as impossible or negative an outcome as others say, though I recognize that it's very unlikely.

[Dorian Gray]

95. One point

Of course Biden is preferable to Trump. But Biden has to win, and for some INSANE reason, they're polling neck and neck.

So, Biden's poor performance at the debate, no matter what the reason was, made people fearful that he doesn't have the stamina or the mental clarity to beat Trump right now. The polls are changing, and not in a positive direction.

Does that HAVE to be the death knell for his campaign?

Absolutely not.

But what he NEEDS to do is get out there. I'm with Clyburn. He needs to do televised Town Halls to speak to the people. To show people his mental clarity. He needs to do press conferences and interviews to show that his debate performance was an anomaly.

If he can't do that... then he probably isn't the candidate we need to run in this time of potential crisis. Trump winning is NOT an option.

If he can do all that, then the poll numbers will right themselves. He's already beaten Trump in the past. He's a good bet. But he needs to show the population he CAN DO IT.

[emulatorloo]

51. You need to watch the focus groups to understand why I am perhaps less concerned than you are

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

They thought Trump was disgusting - liar, self-centered, to arrogant to answer moderators questions.

[Farmer-Rick]

62. Thanks for posting this

The independent voters I recently talked to said the same thing.

They actually thought Biden came across calm and controlled. While Trump came off as a constant liar.

Personally, I think Biden was a bit off his game. But I expect he'll do better, and feel better down the road.

[EYESORE 9001]

6. I'll be on vacation after today

and I intend to scrupulously avoid the mainstream fucking media the entire time.

[ShazzieB]

34. I'll just keep doing what I've beeb doing: avoiding all the MSM *except* for MSNBC.

I thought their coverage last night was very good.

Some of them were a little upset sfter the debate, but only because they want Biden to win at least as much as we do. They shared their concerns honestly, and I appreciated their candor,

I feel the expectations for this debate may have been just a little too high and led people to overract: At any rate, it's over now, and people need to calm down. This too shall pass.

[Dave Bowman]

36. Yeah, all those rating-obsessed idiots give me ulcers so

I'm also avoiding them like the plague.

Have a great vacation!

[onecaliberal]

8. Recommend.

[KPN]

9. You didn't watch the debate. It is well that you didn't.

Critique those who were alarmed after you have viewed it why don’t you. Until then, your lecture is pretty much bullshit. Sorry to be so direct, but your post was pretty damned direct and pretty damned off- base in my opinion.

Enjoy your vacation.

[demmiblue]

10. +1

[Hermit-The-Prog]

18. I watched it with traitortrump muted. The only shock was the shit being slung here afterwards.

[PortTack]

20. Oh no kidding...positive some are trolls!

[onecaliberal]

32. Yes.

[OverBurn]

68. Because we are worried and scared to fucking death, we are trolls. I call bullshit.

I don't know how anyone could watch that debate and say Biden did well. I don't think anyone on this forum has changed their mind on voting for the only legitimate candidate, Biden. The worry is the undecided that might have been turned off by this debate.

[BlueSky3]

76. From what I've read, a lot of undecided Latinos in focus groups

were turned off by Trump. They respected Biden for being truthful and answering the questions. I believe a lot of Americans are wise enough to agree with them.

[judesedit]

11. x a million

[et tu]

12. ok put your voting pencils back

in your pocket protector/holster,
unite and vote blue enough already
one bad debate, scheesh
there will be another one

[orangecrush]

13. Kick and Rec

[William Seger]

15. I haven't given up hope that Trump won't even be nominated, if he implodes before then

I haven't given up hope on my "no" shares on predictit.org, either. On those, however, I've just been hoping that something would happen that made the "no" shares surge, and I could sell at a nice profit before the GOP decided that, yes, being a turd worshiping cult is good enough for them, if they get to control the agenda.

[liberalla]

16. Hear hear!!!

Couldn't agree more!

K&R!

[PortTack]

19. Enjoy your vacation and ignore the trolls!

[zanana1]

21. People's minds were made up before the debate.

It wasn't a good debate, but I don't think that matters. I never for one moment thought that if Biden didn't debate well, I'd vote for Trump. Let's be realistic here.

[onetexan]

22. Hear Hear!! Just donated to Biden Harris campaign. It should spur us to contribute to help POTUS Biden ramp up more his

campaign. If Biden was subpar, there's no question TFG was bonkers.

[Farmer-Rick]

27. Some registered independent voters said Biden did fine.

They said he did as expected. Came across calm, cool and in control. They lean liberal but aren't GOP or a registered Dem. They are pretty reliable hard working people.

The only good thing they had to say about the convicted felon is that he didn't interrupt as often as in the previous elections debates. He did not win this debate. It's just spin the fascist are putting out.

So, I don't get what everyone has gotten all upset about.

I didn't watch it either but just saw a few clips. It's not the world shattering performance everyone here is all up in arms about.

Many people I've talked to said he did fine, and I live in deep red territory.

[emulatorloo]

55. Posted some focus group clips upthread. Undecideds and/or Swing voters. They hated Trump.

[sunnybrook]

28. With all due respect

You are on vacation. You havent seen the debate. It was unlike anytime I have seen him. I have always supported him. Its not about people like me. Its about the razor thin margins we are dealing with. Its about reality. Its about winning the election

[denvine]

70. Thank you!

Because we are concerned, we are trolls! Unbelievable! We are not the ones I am concerned about. We will all vote for Biden even if he slept through the entire debate. I will continue to donate to his campaign monthly, but It is about the razor thin margins. It's about the people who are uninformed. You have to know that clips from this debate will be played over and over. It will be hard to sell it as a sore throat.

[CaptainTruth]

30. A voice of reason, thank you.

[Drum]

35. Come back once you've seen the event in question...

And do reread your post again before the next dressing-down of those of us who saw the debate, k?
Enjoy your time away.

[Dave Bowman]

37. K&R

And have a great vacation, Tommy!

[malthaussen]

38. Yep.

The media leads (or ledes), and the people follow. This election should be a landslide victory, but the doom-sayers want to turn it into a narrow race with the highest of stakes. And every poll is a matter of life and death.

The daydreams of madmen are given credence by being acknowledged and discussed as though they were legitimate issues, and not utter pie-in-the-sky nonsense. "But what if he wins?" You might as well ask what happens if you trip on the curb and get run over by a cement truck.

-- Mal

[dualboy24]

39. I am concerned, I never post here often

After last nights showing, it is clear that Biden was not ready for this debate, everyone I talk to says he needs to step aside and let someone with vigor take up the torch.

My worry about the election is 100X worse after last night.

[budkin]

54. Same. I've been a Dark Brandon supporter up until now

Last night was gut wrenching.

[hurple]

40. My friends

Mostly independents leaning democratic have been telling me, to a person, that Biden’s performance was so bad that they (my friends, not the press) are already calling the election for trump. One said, quote:

"Even with all the verifiably false junk Trump has said, I don’t think Biden can pull it off after this. This debate is tantamount to elder abuse. Biden has done an ok job as president and this debate will ruin him. It’s worse than Nixon sweating on the first TV debate... Biden will lose every swing voter after this."

I didn't watch.

[Beck23]

49. I disagree

I disagree.

[hurple]

74. Disagree?

You think one of my friends didn't say that? Or, do you disagree that I didn't watch the debate?

[emulatorloo]

57. ...

Link to tweet

[shrike3]

88. Might want to check this out.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19072774

Elder abuse? Really?

[byronius]

41. Exactamundo!

Debate details mean little. Larger truths mean everything.

[ismnotwasm]

44. K&R

[Elessar Zappa]

45. I agree.

This debate will be inconsequential to the final result. Biden’s numbers may temporarily dip a point or two but the hey word is “temporarily”. What’s important is what we do in the next four months. We need to donate time, money, and more importantly get out the vote!

[Beck23]

47. Older people face prejudice

As I've become older I have had people talk to me like I'm a little kid, and scammers who think I can't see through them, even though I am sharper than most people 40 years my junior.

I see a lot of prejudice in the comments on Biden's performance.

[H2O Man]

48. Recommended.

[emulatorloo]

52. Kick and Rec

[budkin]

53. You can't just drop a post like this without experiencing it

It was horrendous. Watch it so you understand.

[emulatorloo]

64. Watch focus group footage so you will understand Trump disgusted them

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19072774

[Erda]

65. I love President Biden and he has my support!

Last edited Sat Jun 29, 2024, 10:32 AM - Edit history (1)

I watched the full debate yesterday and the commentary that followed on MSNBC.

I could see President Biden wasn't feeling well, but he had the guts to show up anyway. I thought he was over-prepped and tired from the debate prep - having to excessively use his voice in preparation for the debate only to lose it for the debate itself.

He wasn't relaxed because of the rules with such a stupid emphasis on time - 2 minutes and then 1 minute.- extremely limited time to provide complex answers, and then being cut off before his full point could be made. The rigid structure of the debate would not allow for substantive answers, only superficial ones. President Biden is not a superficial man. The rules made me nervous and in President Biden's shoes, I would have choked, especially realizing how important the debate was,

President Biden has never embarrassed us on the world stage. He has restored our nation. He carries the weight of the nation and the world on his shoulders every moment of every day. He recently crossed the Atlantic, returned home and then crossed the Atlantic again to represent us admirably in the moving D-Day memorial events and the G7 meetings without a peep of admiration or recognition of the stamina needed to do those things seamlessly, from the party elites, and I am speaking now about the Democratic party hand-wringers. He has rescued us from the vile Trump presidency. To have to debate Trump at all, after all Trump has done and is doing to debase our nation must be galling.

[JohnnyRingo]

67. I appreciate the optimism, but here's the fly in the ointment.

It's a thin line between an optimistic outlook and a Pollyanna mindset.

The problem is we can expect to see this image in a number of campaign ads this summer:

[img][/img]

Sure, things can turn things around if Trump submarines his own campaign I suppose, but that image of Joe Biden will follow him to the voting booth.
I admit I have no strategy going forward.

[Jilly_in_VA]

73. When you have a bad cold

can you breathe through your mouth? Seriously. Sit down.

[JohnnyRingo]

79. A bad cold?

I sneeze and cough my lungs out or at least a sniffle, how about you?
He seems much better today at his rally.

You take another look at the pix that will be featured in Trump ads, and tell yourself voters will understand he has a cold. I don't know who on the campaign allowed him to appear on TV like that, but they didn't do him any favors. I love Joe Biden. He's the best pro-union president in my lifetime, but he has to look the part.

[Jilly_in_VA]

86. If you get a bunch of decongestants on board

which he may have, I don't know about you, but it effectively stuffs up my nose so I can't breathe through it, forcing me to be a mouth breather. Just saying/

[Martin Eden]

69. This election will be decided by GOTV and the undecided in crucial swing states

I watched the entire "debate." It was terrible. President Biden likely hurt his chances with undecideds, potential stay at homes, and possible 3rd party voters not happy with the binary choice.

They can't unsee what happened. I'm not referring to The Fascist Grifter, whose cavalcade of lies was predictable. Our guy looked and sounded older than his age. He froze once, and one of his opportunities ended incoherently.

His job last night was to reduce concerns about his vigor and mental sharpness, to effectively communicate the major issues that are in our favor, and to paint a compelling picture of his opponent as the lying criminal insurrectionist that he is.

Reading the transcript, one might think President Biden did fairly well.

But the optics with Joe's voice and manner of speaking was the worst debate performance I've seen in my 48 years as a Democratic voter.

I'm being straightforward and honest here. I have no agenda other than victory for Democrats. I'm not suggesting Joe should step down. I'm just trying to explain the level of concern by so many who care so much.

[Oneironaut]

72. It's the new "hair on fire" media style.

Everything is an emergency.

I was critical of Biden last night and still am. However, it’s also June, and, calls for Biden to step down are completely absurd, if not totally embarrassing if coming from major network commentators.

Everyone is so reactionary these days that everything is an instant kerfuffle. People need to calm the heck down.

[DemocracyWorks]

77. Yeah it tells you who spends too much time on the internet

[NewLarry]

78. Thank You!

For being a voice of sanity.

We all need to just calm the fuck down, and GOTV.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled vacation...

[Hekate]

80. I'm also on vacation and should never have come here last night...

I only got to see part of the “debate” and Joe looked white as a ghost; while Trump had a good makeup artist and looked as good as he can. Trump usually looks like a dangerous insane clown with globs of orange greasepaint dripping off. Joe usually looks fine — what happened?

And people were freaking up one side and down the other, and that’s infectious.

This, too, will pass.

[Nimble_Idea]

81. Enjoy.

[Blue Owl]

82. CNN can go shove their convicted felon golden boy rapist up their ass

[usonian]

83. To be seen on billboards: LEADER OR LIAR.

keep it simple.
Both have been on display for years.
Same for the unchecked lie fest.

Got a spare billboard?

[calimary]

87. Hmmmmm - I like that one, usonian!

Leader or LIAR? Emphasize the LIAR part.

Leader or LIAR?

[usonian]

89. Someone picked it up and posted to social media.

https://democraticunderground.com/100219081645

CousinIT found it.

Share! Simple message gets to the core issue.

[calimary]

90. It soitenly does!

[returnee]

85. Not exactly ready to call for Biden to step down, but...

…what we saw at the debate was TSFConvict at his best, the inveterate spewer of lies. This has been exactly his modus operandi all his life, and it is what has kept him as not just a viable candidate but an extremely competitive one. Biden objectively and abjectly failed to counter these lies on the great broadcast stage.

Now, there could be many reasons for this, and it is not necessarily irreparable. Joe apparently did very well in N. Carolina yesterday. Good on him! Keep it up!

Now, imagine another poor performance later, after it is too late to change horses, say in Sept, after the convention (or frankly at any time). We are at risk for losing serious ground. What then?

In no way do I question Biden’s ability to govern. I do question his current communication skills.

I also question his campaign strategists. His team has to figure out a way to simultaneously advertise his accomplishments and demolish TSFConvict’s lies. So far I don’t think the team is doing a great job at this. In fact, agreeing to debate TSFConvict at all was a highly questionable decision.

I think paid TV time with simple explanations of Dem vs Repub historical effects on the economy, such as the shifts in wealth to the rich, tax breaks for the rich and corporations, the national debt, “inflation” bs corporate greed, etc., with easy to understand graphs might help. The same could true for dedicated paid time for demolishing maggat lies and their treasonous behavior might also help.

I appreciate the idea of doubling down behind Biden. Let’s see if the campaign can quickly come to terms with this setback (could be just a hiccup, I know). I have always been hopeful that Biden/Harris could defeat TSFConvict, but strategy and tactics will be decisive, and I hope we can see soon that the campaign and the Party can demonstrate soon that they’ve got this.

[Eclipsenow]

91. A note from Downunder - what an Aussie men's group concluded.

Disclaimer - I'm Australian. But I'm commenting here because we're scared. I sat around with my men's group over pizza and beers - and there was genuine fear about the potential for an actual decline of democracy in your country. That - or worse. Civil war.

Here's the thing: I hate what I'm about to say. I think adults should use their brains and vote for policy, not personality. Vote for maintaining a fair and decent society, not the person with the meanest put-downs or quickest wit. In fact - I get positively BORED by personality politics - because what I want to hear about is climate change, energy policy, housing, building neighbourhoods with a walkable town square, gun policy, public transport, universal public health like we have in Australia, etc.

But NO! All the talk is of how bad Biden looked in the debate, and how lying malignant narcissist Trump WON that debate - because Biden will not retire! I want to scream to MAGA types "Do you know what you're doing? Be an ADULT and vote for policy for crying out loud!"

I want to scream in their faces that what Trump promised, Biden delivered. IRA should be called "The MAGA act" - as that might actually get some Republicans to take a look at the most important bit of industrial legislation in your country in decades! It's simply the boldest move with the most boring name ever!

Anyway - my men's group reminded my idealistic self that America and MAGA types today are not a polite debate with Jeb Bartlett off "West Wing." Noooo - that age has long gone - if it ever existed. This is "The Boys" - and Trump is their Homelander.

To be President IS to have to APPEAR charismatic, quick-witted, strong, bold, handsome (or beautiful if a lady), regal, powerful - a paragon of energy and vitality and everything "American". (Whatever that means today!)

I hate it. I want to believe we can be more adult, and realise we're voting for administrations and policies and an idea of the world - but then I see MAGA types being interviewed on TV - and I shake my head in amazement.

My Aussie Men's group begs the Democratic party to ask President Biden to retire immediately - and appoint Kamala as President. Swear her in. Let her run the country while campaigning.

Then what do you get? First - no more sleepy Joe. It would be one of the most controversial moves in American political history. She would be a SHOCK to the nation. But not boring! And here's another thing.

NOT OLD!

The Republicans have not been playing fair - or even by the spirit of the law (now that the Supreme Court is so stacked and biased against reality.)

But a vital, energetic, sane President verses the insane OLD Orange Man? Now that's got some potential!

Who is OLD now MAGA types? Who is OLD and unfit now Mr Orange Man?

It's not sleepy. Not scared and confused and lost for words.

Kamala would be an amazing foil to Trump. He might not be able to resist saying certain things about her that would make him very unpopular with the ladies!

If MAGA voters are shallow enough to want to play personality politics - fine. We think you should pour out the gasoline on that fire and see what happens!

(Practically it also prevents a voting round or blood letting from intra-party campaigning, etc. It would be very "Westminster" system of you to just GET this candidate thing sorted and take it to the election! Finally - I think I heard she would have access to all Biden's campaign finances? If it were anyone else - wouldn't the party have to refund all donors and start again?)

[LeftInTX]

93. Presidents do not quit!!! Nixon was the only one. He did it to avoid being impeached.

It would be horrible if he quit just so Kamala could be president. We would never hear the end of it. Quitting for campaign reasons? How freak'n shallow.

[iluvtennis]

94. Well said @Tommy Carcetti!!! I feel the same way you do. Enjoy ur vacation. n/t

[Tommy Carcetti]

98. Thank you.

I had a nice vacation from my problems.

[raccoon]

97. THANK YOU!!