Viewpoint of my 17 YO after last night's debate... aka why TFG won the debate by accomplishing his goal

[JT45242]

My 17 yo son (who will be 18 and vote) watched teh debate in a different room than us and this was his take.

"Biden looked old. He really looked like the job of being President finally caused him the rapid aging that we saw with Barack. We liked him in 2020 because he had old guy "I don't give a fuck, I am going to speak the truth energy" [I'd call that Dark Brandon energy] At the debate he looked old, he seemed confused. People my age aren't going to want to vote for either of these old dudes."

That makes it a win for TFG. If young people stay home, vote third party, etc. then Biden will struggle to win swing states. The goal for TFG and all Repubs has to be to get young people to say there is no difference and stay home and not vote. Because the racist young ones will.

I realized as I thought why Biden's performance was especially disappointing last night. Two videos that I had seen over the last week or so.
1. Secretary Pete absolutely shredding the committee hearing Gish Gallop method by saying essentially. "You said a lot of things that are not factual. I will address them one by one starting with the most outrageously false." And then just destroying the lies with facts.

Someone explain to me why Joe did not say on abortion. "That is a lie. You do not want states to decide. Ohio voted to protect Roe v. Wade rights by an overwhelming majority and the republican majority blocked the will of the people. More importantly, do not believe what this guy says. Read what they wrote down is their plan in Project 2025. This guy and his backers wrote that they want to pass a national abortion ban. You can read it yourself. It is online. They will also take away birth control and IVF . It's in Project 2025. Plus believe their votes, MAGA Republicans would not vote to protect birth control as a guarenteed federal right. They would not vote to keep IVF available to all the families os desperate to have kids who need that medical option."

"Let's talk about the lies about the border. We had a bipartisan bill written by a conservative republican senator from Oklahoma and a democratic Senator. It was a good bill. It had everything that he is saying that we should have. He and his spineless lackeys in the Senate killed it. He told them it would be bad for him and make me look good, so he p=had them put Trump and party above country so that it could not even be discussed and amended to make it even better. That is unamerican. That is dangerous. That is slefish. And that is why he should not be president."

2. The Colorado republican only debate where the moderator shut people down when they lied or did not answer the question.

The 17 yo said CNN is basically fox news since they got bought out. ANd these two clowns let TFG lie without consequence, dodge questions without consequence, and allowed him to have lies be equivalent to truth.

Why did Dana Bash or Jake T say "Yes or No will you accept the winner after all legal challenges." Stop him when he got off topic. Ask it again. Then one last chance after stopping again. "We will take that non answer as a no."

[Hugin]

1. Of course President Biden would look confused...

He was invited to a debate and he walked into a Trump rally.

I’d look fucking confused too.

[TheKentuckian]

11. Being in any way surprised by that is malpractice

Why would you or the Biden campaign be surprised by the long established and blatantly obvious?

The campaign agreed to the no fact check zone set up and Chump is the most documented and dedicated liar in the history of the known universe.

The only person responsible for checking the bullshit and getting Chump on his heels in this format was Joe Biden and he did not get that job done.

This can be turned around but more of what we saw will not do it and pretending Biden's was fine or even acceptable because of whatever is whistling past the graveyard and no it isn't enough for us to just have Biden's back because the reality is it takes more than "us" to win the election.

He is going to have to do some serious lifting and strong campaigning pretty much from here out.

[Hugin]

12. How was it President Biden's responsibility to moderate...

The debate?

That’s crazy. Were Trapper and Bash just window dressings or did they have a fucking job to do? Like maybe moderate.

[TheKentuckian]

15. I said nothing about moderation other than the campaign agreed to the format

so not adjusting to that and understanding the only pushback would come from the candidate is malpractice.

[Hugin]

16. So, Trump gets a pass for not debating at a debate and conforming to the...

Agreed upon format? It’s all President Biden’s fault how it went down, because he did.

Got it.

[TheKentuckian]

17. Pretending that Chump has ever not been given that exact pass

is absurd.

He has been doing exactly this for almost a decade and agreeing to a no fact check format EXACTLY meant that it was Biden's job because by definition no one else was going to do it.

There was never going to be a debate as you seem to imagine, Biden's job was to prosecute the case that Chump is unfit while showing he is masterful and can run circles around the sick fuck and he did neither.

That's balls and strikes.

[Buckeyeblue]

2. My 19 year old son said much the same thing

He'll vote for Biden but he's not enthusiastic about voting for someone his grandfather's age.

[Colgate 64]

4. Most 18-19 year old grandchildren

don't want to vote for anyone the age of their grandfather. That's just the nature of the beast. The trick is having them understand that, although they might prefer someone younger, a young candidate is not an option for 2024.

[Buckeyeblue]

13. And vote. That's the most important thing. They have to vote.

And that's my biggest concern.

[Raven123]

3. You made the argument you need to make to your son

Though you probably did already. Not voting is a vote for TFG. You may not be enthusiastic about either, but only one of them threatens your ability to choose your president

[BootinUp]

5. Here is what I want to know. Are people like your son and his friends

interested at all in what will happen under Biden 2 vs. Trump 2 administrations? You know like the real world differences they will face. Because one or the other is coming and he and his friends might want to make a choice based on that, and not vote on it like its a movie choice.

Just sayin.

[jmbar2]

6. It takes more time to argue with a GishGallop than they allotted. Cannot be done in 2 min soundbites.

The debate format is ill-suited to dealing with full-on GishGallop. He tricks you into trying to rebut the lies, taking all the time away from promoting your own viewpoints.

Dems should NEVER again participate in this debate format with RV gallopers.

There is a better way. Will discuss in a separate post.

[yardwork]

8. I agree, but Biden went first, which gave him an advantage he didn't use.

One way to win against a gish gallop is to get in from if it, and then in your rebuttal calmly state it was all lies and then briefly recap strong advantageous points.

Biden's preparation seemed to be wrong.

[yardwork]

7. I heard a slightly more hopeful response from my 20 year old.

He didn't watch most of the debate, probably typical of his age group. (And I hid from most of it, listening from another room fighting nausea.) He walked in toward the end and I heard him say "The reason people hate Trump is because he's RACIST!"

This was interesting to me because it's by far the most emotion I've heard my stepson express about politics. Mostly, he seems to think the whole thing is hilarious and pointless. And Biden is doing something something wrong involving Israel, something (very vague on details or geography).

But, at the end of the day, he's disgusted by Trump. Maybe some young people will realize that they're facing an imperfect binary choice and choose wisely. Maybe some oldsters will too.

[JI7]

9. So they will vote for house , Senate. and other elections

but leave the one for President blank ?

[Lori Kronberg]

10. The debate isn't everything.

November is some months off. Yeah, Biden did not prevail last night, but at the polling booth people will remember that Trump is a convicted felon-rapist. He might even be in prison by then.

Losing a battle doesn't mean you lose the war

[bigtree]

14. he's making excuses for bad behavior

...young people need to do more than judge these choices based on some kind of TV reality show mentality.

I can't think of a more immature response than first one this kid gave you.

[JCMach1]

18. Why did Biden's team choose to debate at all given

How 2020 was...?

I don't know what you call it, but it wasn't a debate. Choreographed screeching and lying match, then.

All Trump had to do was basically NOT gnaw the carpet this time.

Trump team knew this was about appearances and have had Trump on Ozempic for months.

All of these things were known.