LBJ Knew When It Was the Best for the nation that he should retire.

[Jacson6]

?t=1

[orange jar]

1. What is this implying?

[Towlie]

79. Not sure, but MSNBC was discussing this very question and there's nothing wrong with debating it.

Our most important goal is to defeat Trump, and no discussion of how best to do that should ever be considered against the rules.

[vercetti2021]

2. Am I the only one who is noticing

That posts with only posts in the hundreds are making these types of posts for Joe to step down or other shit?

[valleyrogue]

10. They seem to have posts in the thousands

I have lurked for years, and most of these posters I have never seen here before.

[onecaliberal]

14. Same

[wnylib]

22. No, you are not the only one. The anti Biden posts and OPs are on a mission.

Not worth answering them. Not worth giving them the attention and forum that they want. They are divisive when we need unity.

[livetohike]

31. I noticed that in the debate thread last night. Lots

of new names participating.

[fescuerescue]

49. hard to believe that folks would start posting about elections in an election year

Can't imagine what would make people start talking about the election now, the day after the 1st debate in 4 years.

weird.

[marble falls]

50. And Johnson died in only what would have been the third year into what would have been his second term. I'm ...

... sick of all these low posting negative nellies.

[PortTack]

52. Yes...the trolls are out!

[shrike3]

67. There have been more than a few.

[meadowlander]

74. You're deluding yourself if you think only trolls saw the debate last night and are thinking this.

[shrike3]

82. There have been more than a few people coming out of nowhere, apparently to suggest that Joe drop out.

That is probably what the OP is referring to.

[meadowlander]

86. Obviously some people are trolling

but I also think a serious discussion needs to be had and dismissing anyone raising a legitimate concern as a troll interferes with our ability to have that discussion openly and honestly.

In addition to a lot of trolling, there's also a concerted effort to use alerting and post locks to shut down any discussion on this issue and that's equally unhelpful. I've already been on three juries this morning with people flagging anything other than 100% lockstep support for Biden continuing as the candidate.

[shrike3]

87. Well, It was my understanding we are to support Dem candidates.

Particularly the nominee.

[meadowlander]

91. Until the convention, Biden is not the only possible nominee

and supporting the possibility of another Democrat heading the ticket is not "not supporting Dem candidates".

[shrike3]

92. There was an excellent post earlier about how replacing him at this point would be difficult if not disastrous.

No. 1, there'd be no money immediately at hand, since funds already donated to Biden cannot be transferred. The convention is fast approaching, and there is really no clear favorite. I keep hearing about Gavin Newsom, and while I like him, I don't know that he'd play well with the rest of the country. I live in deep red territory, and California is spoken of with contempt, if it is spoken of at all. Harris would also have to be replaced, because candidates cannot come from the same state.

And who exactly would the replacement be? All those mentioned poll worse against Trump than Joe does. It's a pipe dream at worst; at best a feat hard to pull off in what amounts to weeks. A bruising fight at the convention would make us look even worse. See 2016. Not helpful overall.

Here's the post, if you haven't read it already.

https://democraticunderground.com/100219072298

[Alliepoo]

104. Seems like Robert Reich and Steve Schmidt are thinking

Along these lines as well. Reading their columns in my email this morning. I don’t know how to attach the emails here, though.

[Torchlight]

3. I imagine you have a particular point you want to avoid saying explicitly.

Yet first you may want to delve into the actual reasons for LBJ's descision to not seek another term

[orange jar]

19. Seems they won't outright say what they mean.

Are we surprised, though?

[JohnSJ]

103. Like Viet Nam for instance, and what they won't mention we got

Nixon after that move and the 1968 convention.

Whether they realize it or not some people are trying real hard to get trump back into the WH with their open convention path, because that is how it would end up.

Even those suggesting this can’t agree on replacement, yet alone how it would be accomplished.

It would make the divisions of 2016 look like child’s play

[Blue Cape]

4. Did you see him in N.C. just now?

He looked great. People know he is 81. That is baked into the cake.

[Wednesdays]

9. Welcome to DU!

[Jose Garcia]

12. Where was that guy last night?

[orange jar]

16. I think the issue was that he was trying to fact check Trump in real time

+ the lack of an audience. Whoever was helping him prep this time around does NOT need to be his advisor next time if there's another debate.

[Jose Garcia]

98. Biden looked and sounded terrible even before Trump opened his mouth

[brush]

61. I know. The degate coaching team...not a good job;

A few good, strong talking points to bring up over and over would've put Joe in good stead.

Like repeatedly remind everyone that trump is a convicted criminal, adjudicated rapist, and classified document theif who braggs about snatching away women's abortion rights.

Missed opportunity.

[Jose Garcia]

99. It wasn't what he said. It was how he looked and sounded.

[brush]

100. IMO some strong, repeated talking points would've helped.

No time to bail now, as Gov. Newsom said.

[niyad]

88. That guy, as has been pointed out multiple times both last night, and today,

was ill with a cold.

[niyad]

85. Welcome to our DU family.

[bucolic_frolic]

5. Trump knows it would be best if Trump retires too, but he just won't admit it in public

because he hopes to stay out of jail.

I take it that's what the OP means.

[Dem4life1234]

6. Yeah and

Yeah, and Chump should retire for the good of the nation.

[Cattledog]

7. That decision got us Nixon.

[crazylikafox]

8. Correct answer

[former9thward]

11. No, LBJ's decision to impose Humphrey on the convention got us Nixon.

Humphrey was LBJ lite without the stage presence.

[democrattotheend]

42. True, but that might have been different

If RFK Sr. hadn't been assassinated.

[muriel_volestrangler]

106. This - thanks to that non-electoral event, nothing can be concluded from 1968

It was also before most primaries, so the Democratic Party still had a chance of a decision with most voters showing a preference, so the situation was even less similar than to now.

[Dem4life1234]

95. Yes

Exactly one of the most corrupt leaders in history.

[LuckyCharms]

13. Oh. That's nice.

JFC.

[Yonnie3]

15. So are you saying Nixon was the best for the nation?

That's what we got from LBJ's retirement. Is that your point?

[greatlaurel]

17. Nope. LBJ stepped aside and the country elected Nixon so no that was a bad idea by Johnson.

LBJ should have stayed and attacked Nixon for sabotaging the peace negotiations with the North Vietnamese. Nixon won the 1968 election not the Democratic Party nominee, Hubert Humphrey.

LBJ stepping aside ended up ended up a disaster for the USA, 22,000 more dead American GI's, not to mention what horrors were done to Cambodia and Laos

"Eventually, Nixon won by just 1 percent of the popular vote. “Once in office he escalated the war into Laos and Cambodia, with the loss of an additional 22,000 American lives, before finally settling for a peace agreement in 1973 that was within grasp in 1968,” says the BBC."

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/nixon-prolonged-vietnam-war-for-political-gainand-johnson-knew-about-it-newly-unclassified-tapes-suggest-3595441/

[Doc Sportello]

33. Well said. n/t

[Ponietz]

18. Shithead wants Biden to drop out because he'll lose to Biden

Shithead, Inc., knows their chances are better against Kamala Harris.

[democratsruletheday]

20. more trolling....great

any mods on this board anymore?

[Blue Cape]

23. Why punish

an innocent bag of dicks?

[Niagara]

41. + Rec

[sarisataka]

24. Is this a hit-and-run post?

I'm thinking this IS a hit-and-run post.

[lapucelle]

25. There is also a post about Gavin Newsom "sure being handsome" that followed the same MO.

[orange jar]

30. Saw that.

Aren't exactly being subtle, are they?

[sarisataka]

62. Interesting coinkydink

[AZSkiffyGeek]

77. I like the ones spamming illicit gossip about Newsom

So we know what the stage two of the disruption will be.

[shrike3]

84. Seems like it.

[ProfessorGAC]

26. Post Is 35 Minutes Old

There are now 25 posts on the thread.
But, no follow-ups from the OP.
Things that make you go, hmmmm!

[marble falls]

56. Makes one want to fire up a pizza truck, doesn't it?

[Demsrule86]

108. It is a hit and run. and we lost the election after Johnson decided not to run.

[we can do it]

27. Snakes know when to crawl back under a rock, too.

[cilla4progress]

28. Completely different

scenario.

[ms liberty]

29. Your concern is noted. n/t

[Ocelot II]

34. LBJ's reasons for not seeking another term are irrelevant to the current situation

and had entirely to do with the fact that the Vietnam War, and therefore Johnson himself, had become unpopular. But the result was that Nixon won, though narrowly. In retrospect maybe Johnson should have stayed in and run again; the party was already divided but he'd have had the advantage of incumbency.

[Jacson6]

35. I'm just discussing LBJ. n/t

[orange jar]

37. LOL. Ok.

[JoseBalow]

76. LOL! Do you honestly think anyone here believes that?

[Torchlight]

78. You then believe 'discussion' is simply a series of unsupported assertions, one after another? nt

[msfiddlestix]

36. completely disagree.

Johnson should have reversed course on Viet Nam, and stayed in office to see it through .. it's been a disaster ever since.

[Raven123]

38. Beware the clever

This combined with your previous post re: Newsom makes your point very clear. I think I know where the ignore button is located.

[msfiddlestix]

109. I don't recall making any reference to Newsom.

Not sure why you think I did? Maybe you were responding to someone else's post?

[FakeNoose]

39. LBJ decided not to run for re-election in 1968 for one reason

... he knew he would lose because of the Vietnam War protests. He became extremely unpopular, even within the Democratic Party, after the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and the escalation of the war. Also the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a good thing - however it resulted in the Southern states leaving the Democratic Party in droves.

There was a lot of upheaval during Johnson's 5 years in office. He saw the handwriting on the wall and he wisely chose to step down rather than run again. His age was not a factor ... at all.

[markpkessinger]

40. LBJ made that announcement in March of 1968 . . .

. . . 8 months before the presidential election. We are now nearly in July, a little over 4 months out from the election.

And LBJ's decision to step aside did not result in a Democratic win! It helped Nixon! Is that what you want, to help Trump?

[H2O Man]

96. Good points!

LBJ was a fascinating character. While I was opposed to US involvement in Vietnam, I appreciate that he had numerous positive accomplishments. Yet he was a strange man, who had spoke with Lady Bird & others about not running in 1964. Even after his announcement in '68, he kind of wanted to be drafted.

I think he'd have kicked Nixon's behind. He was aware that Nixon attempted to keep South Vietnam from signing for a peace deal, because he knew that deal would have helped HHH. It's a shame LBJ didn't expose Nixon.

HHH was making significant gains after saying he would not follow the president's lead if elected. If he had even another week, he would have won.

I remember being disgusted at the thought of Nixon being president. He was a severely damaged human being. What is curious is that he was a better person than the majority of republicans in DC.

We still have plenty of time to win in November, and crush the felon and maga politicians.

[Martin68]

43. If this is a comment on Biden, then it is entirely misplaced. LBJ resigned because of opposition to the Vietnam War.

[DinahMoeHum]

44. Your "concern" is noted.

n/t

[Ping Tung]

45. LBJ had to step down because he was losing an unwinnable war.

Nixon promised "Peace with dignity" and the voters fell for it because they wanted some of way to win or, at least, not lose. Humphrey just offered more of the same.

[Wounded Bear]

46. And it was probably a mistake...

We're still suffering from the Nixon presidency, and you can trace many of trump's and the republican party's failings to that.

Nixon/Ford, Reagan, Bushes, trump. That's a pretty nasty spiral downward for the repub party.

[LiberalFighter]

47. He made the announcement on March

Not June or July.

[blogslug]

48. I shall retire from seeing your posts again

bye

[marble falls]

51. He retired because his health was failing, fer pete's sake. Nixon won by lying about his desire to end the war.

[PortTack]

54. That's right ...the op did a poor job of looking into LBJs retirement

Failing health and hurt ego from fellow Dems…he’d had enough. It wasn’t about the country…he was pissed!

[Jacson6]

57. He retired because his health was failing

That is a good point about LBJ.

[Torchlight]

59. No. His health has nothing to do retirement.

His refusal to run again was, on some basic level, a recognition of political reality. For all his legislative achievements (the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, Medicare and Medicaid), LBJ had become the face of America’s divisions. To those on the Right, Johnson had done too much, too quickly, overloading the system with big-government programs that trampled on individual liberties. Much of the Left viewed Johnson as the corrupt wheeler-dealer who had lied America into the disastrous, bloody Vietnam quagmire

.

(Robert Caro, Means of Ascent)

[shrike3]

90. Magnificent book on Johnson.

[niyad]

93. awwwwww, sooooo clever of you, thinking we will not notice the dig.

Hint: Some of us have been around a LOOOOOOOONG Time, and are well-acquainted with such efforts.

[retread]

53. Wasn't the result 2 terms of Nixon?

[awesomerwb1]

55. LOL read some history

t.r.o.

[Think. Again.]

58. Apparently Joe Biden knows it's best for him not to.

[Torchlight]

60. What leads you to consistently and innacurately assert his health was the reason for retirement?

I imagine you have come well-cited sources to draw from rather than simpy a series of unsupported statement.

[ColinC]

63. Possibly one of the worst things he did to the country

Since Nixon came next…

[Sogo]

64. Revisionist history.

LBJ retired because he knew he wouldn't win.

[orange jar]

65. I'm not going to beat around the bush with this.

Just answer with a yes or no: do you believe Biden should step down as the Dem nominee?

[Self Esteem]

66. What did that accomplish? The Democrats lost later that year.

Not the best comparison.

[fishwax]

68. and kids at the dinner table knew when to be quiet b/c adults were talking

[orange jar]

70. We have a greater chance of losing without Biden as the nominee.

What chances do we have now? No idea. But data has shown that other Dems would not perform as well against Trump as Biden.

[Lancero]

75. Welcome to DU, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[enid602]

71. Similarities

According to released FOIA records, LBJ had proof that Nixon was illegally communicating with the governments of North and South Vietnam prior to the US election, urging them to scuttle Johnson’s peace offerings, as Nixon would offer them a better deal. He never did, of course.

I wonder what Trump is promising BiBi at this point.

[ZZenith]

80. Perhaps it's time for you to retire

from your political consultant gig?.

[returnee]

81. And we got Nixon...

… godfather to TSFConvict.
Good move LBJ.

[niyad]

83. ENOUGH ALREADY!!!

[Rebl2]

94. Thing is

it was earlier in the election year. A little late now for Biden to do that now.

[JoseBalow]

97. What Happened? I thought you wanted to discuss LBJ

[Charlie Chapulin]

101. And that gave us Nixon.

[emulatorloo]

102. LBJ was deeply mired in the Vietnam War. Biden had a bad cold.

[republianmushroom]

105. Oh, yea, you bet, we then had Tricky Dick Nixon.

[Demsrule86]

107. And we lost the election to Nixon. I don't think that was best...we had two term Nixon and the war went on...

This proves Biden should stay and not what you think it does.