If you want a different candidate than Joe Biden, here's what you need to do

[EarlG]

Last edited Sat Jun 29, 2024, 06:56 PM - Edit history (1)

First, build a time machine and travel back in time to 2022. Find and recruit a legitimate candidate who can attract major support, and who is willing to run against the incumbent president for the Democratic nomination. Then, raise hundreds of millions of dollars and attract solid grassroots support from a significant chunk of the Democratic electorate. Next, get your candidate on Democratic primary ballots in all 50 states. Finally, defeat Joe Biden in the Democratic primaries.

Congratulations! You did it.

If you can't do that, here's some straight talk:

This decision is Biden's to make, and there's no indication at this time that he is interested in dropping out. So consider this. If you're Gavin Newsom, or Gretchen Whitmer, or some other high-profile Dem who is highly likely to take a shot at the presidency in 2028, you have ABSOLUTELY NO INCENTIVE right now to try and force him out. Setting aside for a moment the tremendous threat to democracy that Trump represents, your safest political play is to let Biden win or lose on his own.

If Biden wins, then great -- you were a good foot soldier and a loyal Democrat who stood up and defended him during his darkest hour. You've gotten off to a strong start making the argument that you should be his successor when he finishes his second term in four years.

But if Biden loses the election, then there will be nobody to blame but Biden. It wasn't your fault -- you did nothing to harm him. You stood by him and did everything you could to help him win, but the electorate wasn't having it, and he lost. When everything shakes out, you've done nothing at all to damage your chances with Democrats going into the 2028 primaries.

Stepping up and challenging him right now, just months before the election, would throw the party into total chaos. You would be seen by many as a disloyal backstabber. It would be a disaster. Not just for the party, but if you failed to take Biden out -- or succeeded in taking him out, and then failed to win the presidency -- you would have split the party in two and be seen by one half as a traitor.

I don't believe there is a chance in hell that any high profile Democrat is willing to take that gamble right now when all they need to do is stay the course and set themselves up for 2028. I think you can certainly make the argument that if Trump wins, all bets are off on whether there will even be an election in 2028 -- but that is part of an unknown future, and wouldn't change the political calculation that these politicians have to make right now.

Which is why the current talk on DU of replacing Biden seems to me like a purely academic exercise born out of panic (not to mention, ahem, a violation of DU rules, since we declared an official end to Primary Season months ago).

If you are worried about the upcoming election, I don't blame you. The consequences are significant. But I'd like you to bear something in mind. We are all Biden fans here. We're the members of the party who think he's done a solid job as President, and we love him for his character. I think this even describes the vast majority of folks calling for him to be replaced.

However, the upcoming election is more a battle of differing ideas and concepts for the future of America than it is about the personalities involved, and that is why I think that staying the course is a no-brainer. The choices in this election are a Putin-style dictatorship run by a criminal, racist, rapist psychopath, or, you know -- not that. And to that end, I think pretty much every Democrat in America would vote for Joe Biden's corpse before they voted for Donald Trump. I know I would.

Is it an ideal situation? Nope. But is there a realistic alternative to this situation? Also nope. And does the last debate really change the dynamics of the race, given that, once again, the two choices in this election are Joe Biden or the destruction of America as we know it? Thrice, I say nope.

President Biden still has plenty of time to redeem himself following the debate performance, not least of which will be his acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention. Given the factors in play, it seems the party is going to stay the course. The stakes are too high, and we are not going to have a repeat of the disarray on display at the 2016 convention. We'll get a solid four days of Democratic unity on national TV capped off by a strong speech, all of which will remind America of the stakes in this election.

So bottom line: Things don't look as rosy right now as we'd hoped going into the debate. But calls to replace Biden at this stage are nothing more than a fantasy -- a pointless academic exercise which will do nothing but create disunity, when we need the opposite.

At least, that's my opinion. You're welcome!

[The Unmitigated Gall]

1. Boom. nt

[mcar]

2. Thank you!

[marble falls]

3. Better than I could have ever said it. Calls to replace Biden are trollery at worst, wrong minded at best.

[niyad]

22. gru efforts at worst.

[marble falls]

61. There's a Florida ex-cop ex-pat who now holds Russian citizenship who runs a collection of over ...

... 100 websites that he trolls from.

I'll try to dig up the article for you.

[marble falls]

92. About that troll farmer.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fake-news-sites-florida-deputy-sheriff-russia-rcna154315

[niyad]

109. Dear Goddess, I think I am going to be ill. F'n, no-neck TRAITOR.

Thank you so much for sharing this. Would you consider posting this as its own OP for needed visibility?

[marble falls]

120. I thinks he's been at it harder since Thursday night. There are even more indepth articles about him.

[sheshe2]

4. Thank you 🙏

[Ninga]

5. Thoughtful, well said and factual. The diversity

among our own ranks here is indicative of the general state of the Democratic Party at large.
I felt the drifting away especially by those who sought purity in 2000 and 2008 and either didn’t vote or voted 3rd party.
Even now, with the clear and unambiguous destruction of the SCOTUS by the ultra conservative GOP appointees, many simply do not get it.
A united and strong front needs to be amassed by voting patriots- the real battle ground is Election Day.

[Croney]

6. The voice of reason. Thank you.

[PatSeg]

51. It really is

Too bad there appeared to be no "voice of reason" at the NYT yesterday. Experienced, seemingly knowledgeable people were running around with their hair on fire. If they'd taken a few deep breathes and counted to ten before they started hitting their keyboards, the reality of what EarlG said here might have dawned on them.

Politics is not for the faint of heart. Maybe some of these opinion writers should consider a different career because they really jumped the gun on this one. Also they might have used some of that frenzied energy to attack Trump's endless and outrageous lies and his avoidance of the questions.

[rzemanfl]

116. They say old age is not for the faint of heart either.

Last edited Sun Jun 30, 2024, 08:23 AM - Edit history (1)

Dealing both between now and election day and whatever may follow fills me with anger and dread. I am too old for this shit.

[PatSeg]

124. It has been so exhausting

Though it isn't necessarily about our age. I've seen much younger people stressed out over all we've been through since Trump entered the political arena. People's physical and mental health have been affected dramatically.

We thought we could move on after Biden was inaugurated, but the monster came roaring back as if nothing and no one could stop him. He is the nightmare that seemingly never ends.

[RandomNumbers]

7. Hear, hear!

I have nothing to add except:

[emulatorloo]

8. Thanks!

[ForgedCrank]

9. I'm all

in for criticism of candidates and leaders when it is warranted, but only in the name of facing the realities of the political landscape, and for the sake of developing winning formulas.
Calling for President Biden to step down due to a lackluster debate delivery is not part of any winning formula. It is, on the other hand, a recipe for disaster, not to mention completely unwarranted.

We all need to keep our wits and back the strong candidate, and at this moment in time, that is Joe Biden. Any other course does us damage, and we can't afford that right now. This is the time for cohesiveness and rational discussion with November in mind.

[gab13by13]

10. Thank You,

Honestly I considered all of the threads here talking about replacing Joe extremely inappropriate.

No one who ever ran for president of the United States got more votes than Joe Biden.

I can't stand to look at my computer's home page with the nonsense. Newsweek is farther right than Fox, I saw a headline from it that the odds went way up for Michele Obama to run.

I hope to he// that TSF is sentenced to home confinement for a minimum sentence, but he is above the law, oh wait, that decision may or may not be made Monday. It will get tossed back to the lower court I am sure.

[BoomaofBandM]

11. Excellent post. Thank you.

[livetohike]

12. Thank you EarlG. n/t

[WarGamer]

13. Polling shows that no one polls better vs Trump than Biden... and Biden beat him before.

Just GOTV and all SHOULD be ok.

Both sides have enough potential voters to win... the side with better GOTV will win.

[FBaggins]

34. Just to back that up with some data...

Data For Progress released a poll today (of 1,000 likely voters taken after the debate).

Biden outperformed all eight Democratic alternatives (including the Harris and Newsom) against Trump.

They all underperformed President Biden by 5-6 points. And that's before what would obviously be a difficult convention beats up on all of them.

https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2024/6/29/in-post-debate-poll-voters-think-biden-is-too-old-to-be-president-yet-alternative-candidates-perform-similarly-against-trump

[Cha]

88. Interesting FBaggins. TY!

[dickthegrouch]

103. Who's Newsome?

He deserves to be spelled correctly.

[FBaggins]

127. Correction

The 538 chart showing all the various candidates reflected Biden +3 over Trump and all the other Democrats losing by 2-3 points.

Today I see that the actual DFP poll has Biden down by 3. So it isn't correct that he outperforms all other Democrats. However - it is still true that there is no clearly better option (in that poll anyway).

[dalton99a]

14. Kick

[Roxi]

15. Thank you!

To me, this is obvious. Biden is our nominee, and Harris is more than capable of taking over if something horrible happens to Joe.

It hasn’t escaped my notice that the people calling for Biden to step aside are also pushing for someone else to step in, as if our VP isn’t already more than qualified for the job.

[niyad]

25. There seems to be quite a bit of misogyny and racism at play.

[ismnotwasm]

16. I cannot, and I mean this sincerely, recommend this enough

I get there is a lot of political PTSD, but godamn the last day or so has been hard to watch.

[COL Mustard]

39. I think it exposes the biggest difference between us and MAGATs.....

We can criticize Biden or Democrats in general without being threatened with violence. I love the man, but I'm not wanting to marry him, just to elect him as President!

[oldmanlynn]

17. I think your right except that you don't mention the party seems in chaos.

The stakes are high in this election. I can understand people being worried. They are no longer sure our win in the election is straight forward. Im sure people in the upper echelons of the party understand how critical this is.

I for one think biden pulling out which i agree is his decision, is not going to throw the party into chaos. I think we would coalesce around someone like Gavin Newsome or Kamala or Gretchen in a positive way because we all know whats at stake.

Whats not at stake is just Joe Biden winning. Its keeping Donald Trump and Republicans out so we dont lose the democacy. Thats what many of us want. Its what absolutely must happen. We dont care exactly who is the leader that achieves this but that this is done

[EarlG]

100. I dont think the party is in chaos, honestly

This is different than 2016. It seems to me that most of the fear among individual Democrats this time around is not that THEY will have a hard time voting for Biden, but that OTHER PEOPLE will have a hard time voting for him. But that dynamic has been in play since long before the debate.

In 2016, DU, along with the party at large, suffered something of a schism when many people decided they couldn't or wouldn't pull the lever for Hillary Clinton after a gruelling and painful primary campaign. It was evident at the Democratic National Convention (I was there and witnessed it myself).

This time around, even the folks here at DU who have been calling for Biden to step aside are still going to vote for him when he stays in the race. They're not going to abandon him. The same goes for the party at large. We all know what the stakes are.

[William769]

18. Thank you!

[WheelWalker]

19. I couldn't agree with you more comrade!

[highplainsdem]

20. I agree. And I have seen people on Twitter posting they'd vote for Biden posthumously before they'd vote

for Trump.

So would I.

A Republican relative tried gloating about the debate today. I told him about how fact-checking showed Trump lied throughout the debate. I also mentioned Trump's Adderall addiction, at least since his time on The Apprentice, and his incontinence at least since then. I told him you can hear Trump poop his pants during the debate, and that I could send him the link to a conservative site's video of the debate with the exact time where you could hear it.

For some reason he hung up...

[niyad]

21. KNR plus a gazillion, EarlG. Thank you!!!

[greatauntoftriplets]

23. Great post. Thanks.

[Cha]

24. TY.. I knew you'd be along to

sort this out.

Lots of Excellent Dems are Staining by Pres Biden

[proud patriot]

26. Thank you EarlG

: patriot:

[Blue Full Moon]

27. Kennedy

That is how I see him. Will say, Biden is in headlines. Keep it that way. Tfg needs to be a side note in the back.

[SocialDemocrat61]

28. Found the right man for the job 😉

[flying_wahini]

29. Thanks Earl, you do us all a great service by posting this. Your work here is amazing too. ❤️❤️❤️

[CaptainTruth]

30. Yes, absolutely. Excellent post, thank you for it.

[sop]

31. Completely agree with your analysis.

Apparently, I'm one of the few who believe Biden's debate performance wasn't disqualifying. He has to convince doubters it was just one bad night. I think he will.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

40. Biden is NOT going to drop out. IF he did, that would nearly guarantee Trump's victory.

Are you sure that you're in the right political forum? You don't sound like a Democrat to me.

On edit: How about that??? Post Removed. I guess this person wasn't a Democrat after all. I didn't even alert on this poster.

[ms liberty]

33. The is the best thing I have read on this suject. So well said. Wish I could rec it a thousand times

[XanaDUer2]

35. TY.

[Think. Again.]

36. Thank you.

[Mousetoescamper]

37. We have our candidate and must unite behind him. There's no time left to debate fantasies. Thank you, EarlG!

[LiberalFighter]

38. There is a time and a place.

We have gone past that point.

As for gaffes. How many have there been? And why does it matter? Have any issues with government programs been caused by any gaffes? Why are his gaffes more of an issue than others? Are his gaffes reckless?

What is the situation when gaffes are made? Trying to avoid stuttering? Under pressure with time limits?

[LisaL]

41. Exactly.

I don't think Biden was ever considered a great debater.
WTF is with the freakout now?

[raging moderate]

49. Al Gore thoroughly defeated Dubya Bush in their debates.

The powerful rich guys manipulated their flock to vote for Dubya anyway, then jimmied the Supreme Court to stick him in office.
And I remember one of my coworkers saying that she was going to vote for Dubya because she would rather have him over to her place for dinner. She didn't realize that she was just choosing somebody more like herself rather than considering what qualities would be needed in a President of the United States.

[wnylib]

72. Hillary Clinton outperformed Trump and had more

experience and qualifications by far.

So debate performance does not necessarily determine the outcome of an election. There are so many other factors.

[muriel_volestrangler]

57. Except when he made Paul Ryan look like a chump.

And he was far better than Sarah Palin, of course, but that's a lower bar. And he was reckoned to have bested Trump in both the 2020 debates (again, Trump's a whacko, but that's who he's facing this time too). So apart from all the national debates against a Republican he's ever done, no, not a great debater, perhaps.

[EarlG]

101. To be fair, Biden has never been a consistently great debater

I seem to recall Kamala Harris kicking his butt during the 2020 primaries. He performed well against Paul Ryan in 2012.

I'm not sure there was even consensus at the time that he convincingly defeated Sarah Palin, which seems pretty wild in retrospect.

https://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/03/debate.words/

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-politics-people-idUSTRE4926D120081003/

https://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/03/debate.poll/index.html

[bsiebs]

42. Thank you EarlG... perfectly stated!

[Prairie Gates]

43. If the polls go seriously south and the fundraisers revolt before the convention

Biden will step aside.

The calls for it only put it on the realism radar. It's true, of course, that it will be his decision. You're certainly right about that.

[Trueblue Texan]

44. I agree with every word you've said...and maybe there is a silver lining.

Who is feeling complacent out there now? Not me. I'm more fired up than ever and I'm ready to work!

[ShazzieB]

45. Very well stated!

All of this makes complete sense and is a greatly needed reality check.

I actually stayed away from DU most of yesterday. I knew people would be talking about the debate, and that some would be catastrophizing about its effect on Biden's chances and arguing about whether he should step dawn. And I just wasn't up for any of that. I was still processing what happened Thursday night, and while my support for Joe was still as strong as ever, I knew that reading a bunch of negative comments sbout him was the last thing I needed just then.

I also didn't have the energy for arguments. I knew that trying to get Joe to leave the race and put somebody else in his place was not a viable choice or a cure for our concerns, but I didn't know how to explain why. I knew that if I came here and saw any negative comments about Biden, I'd want to argue to back, but my own lack of clarity would prevent me from doing so effectively. So I took a break.

I'm back now, and this OP was just what I needed. It explains what I didn't know how to explain and validates my inarticulate sense that trying to replace Joe on the ticket at this late date is not the answer. Thanks for laying it all out so clearly.

[iamnoone]

46. Abso-frickin'-lutely

Including the Biden’s corpse part.

[lees1975]

47. You nailed it!

Biden will beat Trump. Will anyone else?

[byronius]

48. Thanks for this common sense.

[Bumbles]

50. Thank you, EarlG

I'm breathing fully again and looking forward to a successful general election.

[Tumbulu]

52. Thank you!

Well articulated!

You and Laurence have got it!

[TBF]

53. Absolutely -

I said before the debate that I'd vote for a doorknob before I'd vote for Trump and I meant it. He is extremely dangerous to women in particular, as we saw with his zeal in overturning Roe. What's next: they're already talking about ending no-fault divorce, they're talking about access to birth control etc. It wasn't so long ago in this country that women couldn't even own property or get their own credit cards - especially if they were married. You might be able to inherit if you were wealthy, that was about your only shot besides praying you got a husband that treated you decently. Does anyone really want to go back to those days? I sure don't.

[Kali]

54. common sense and reality

I get the reaction - my stomach was in a knot the other night. it was bad. but like almost all scary things late at night, the next day was so much better. if possible wait until morning, or 24 hours before going berserk. it will almost always be less of disaster in the light of day. time is a fixer for a lot of problems, just by removing panic and urgency.

[GoneOffShore]

55. Abso-fucking-lutely!

[Sun-Moon]

56. Great Post EarlG

Thank you!

[Mblaze]

58. Biden is pre-redeemed in my eyes

By what he has done in his first term. I, for one, would hate to see the triumphant return of "trickle-down".

[Hermit-The-Prog]

59. I like DU rules. I have no respect for any suggestion to abandon MY President.

[jaxexpat]

60. Perfectly laid out in a logical array of reasonable points.

If we were concerned that Democrats would refuse to support the Democratic candidate, your message closes that case. These facts attest how 'united we stand' is clearly a vastly better option vis-à-vis factional strife going into the DNC convention and November. The tendency of Democrats to go their own way is not, however, my concern. It's who I call the "under-voters". Those who choose not to vote unless goaded or caught up in a tide of sentiment and enthusiasm.

Obama brought them out, Clinton as well. Biden, on 2020, was the symbol at the prow of a ship people wanted to ride into prosperity and a just punishment for Trump and Trumpists and Trumpism. Clinton had enough charisma that when Perot sucked the life out of Bush's chances, he was able to squeak by on the strength of people's hope for a better executive. Obama's victory was people's visceral reaction to the hopeless shadiness of Bush II's corruption and the hopeful novelty of a black American president. My point is this. Without a strongly identifiable and emotional investment at stake, tired, cynical and depressed patriots will tend to stay home. I think they've always been the element that makes Democratic candidates electable. They're always there and they'll always vote Democratic but unless they get the spark, they stay in the shadows. Our challenge goes beyond corralling the loyal Democrats. It is to inspire the less politically addicted to participate. Useful tips would be real welcome about now.

[DallasNE]

62. My Response To Biden's Debate Performance Was

To find the highest match available and make a contribution. Friday, I was rewarded with an offer of a 900% match so I jumped on it.

If anyone else is interested in this offer go to https://stop-maga.org/5cyF9r That should pull up the Act Blue page where you can make a donation. I choose to donate $50. The amount is strictly up to you.

I believe the viewers were paying attention to what was said and the contrast was of a solid steward of the American economy versus an unrelenting liar that never answered the questions asked. The viewers know the difference. Do not be surprised if Biden gets a small bump in the polls when they come out next week. Go Joe Biden.

[Wednesdays]

73. "Do not be surprised if Biden gets a small bump in the polls when they come out..."

Get a load of this!

"Trump FREAKS OUT over BAD POLLS After Debate - Meidas Touch"
https://www.democraticunderground.com/132228298

[DeeDeeNY]

63. Yes. There is basically nothing we can do about this at this time. But the elephant in the room is that

if Trump wins this time, there won't be another free election. So, it won't matter which Democrat wants to run in 2028.

[wnylib]

77. And that is why we need to rally around Biden in unity.

To make sure that Trump does not get near the WH.

[soldierant]

64. Replacing a candidate at this point in the campaign

is far more damaginf than any candidate could possibly be. Look what happened to the McGovern-Eagleton ticket. And Tom was only the VP candidate. REplace the top of the ticket now? Sheer insanituy.

[H2O Man]

65. Recommended.

Buster Mathis beat Smokin' Joe Frazier twice in the 1964 Olympic trials. But Buster broke a bone in his hand, and opted to step aside. Frazier competed instead. He also had a broken bone in his hand. Joe won the gold.

Big George Foreman -- who won gold in '68 -- was a young contender watching Frazier fight tough Jerry Quarry. The first two rounds of that fight are legendary. The two stood toe-to-toes, each landing vicious punches. George said after the bell, he saw Joe grinning to himself. and tapping himself on the head with both hands ...... for Smoking' Joe loved tough fights. Indeed, from the stary of the third round, he began to wear Quarry out.

I would tell DUers the same thing I told fighters I trained, after telling them these stories: be Smokin' Joe, not Buster.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

66. Mic Drop

[Dave Bowman]

67. If I had a time machine

I would make sure that Fred would get a vasectomy.

[Tree Lady]

68. Right on!

Thats what I have been saying, it would be total chaos and infighting and we would lose by a huge margin.

We need to fight harder to help Joe.

[debm55]

69. Thank you, EarlG

[malthaussen]

70. Well, I don't disagree, talk of replacing Joe Biden is just wind.

But if he does lose in 2024, there is a greater-than-zero chance that there won't be any 2028 election. So those who talk of dumping Joe for some unicorn are possibly reacting from panic, feeling that anything and everything needs to be done to make sure that there are elections in 2028.

-- Mal

[angrychair]

71. Well said

Could not agree more. Biden is my president. Harris is my Vice President. I will not fail. I will not falter. I will not loss faith.

The alternative is not acceptable.

[AwakeAtLast]

74. And this is why I love DU!

Thank you for this thoughtful and spot on post!



The fact that the other candidate has NEVER had to field open calls to drop out is mind boggling!

[Goodheart]

75. Lots of generalizations, false premises, and non sequiturs there.

Which makes for false conclusions.

I don't accept that no other Democrat could defeat trump, and I don't accept that Newsom and Whitmer have nothing to gain by running.

[wnylib]

78. You see generalizations, false premises, and non sequiturs.

I see facts, reality, and sound logic in the OP, plus knowledge of how politics work in the US.

But, if you don't want to support our president and his candidacy, there are plenty of us to take up the slack and elect Biden.

[orange jar]

79. Newsom would lose against Trump.

https://www.newsweek.com/gavin-newsom-chances-beating-donald-trump-1918700

https://unherd.com/newsroom/could-these-democrats-beat-donald-trump/

[Goodheart]

83. I doubt that.

[shrike3]

121. According to what I've read, if the election were held today Trump would beat Newsom by four points.

Newsom could close the gap if he had enough time, but would he? I don't think so.

[JohnSJ]

82. Are you kidding? We cannot even decide on a replacement candidate,

and just ignoring the mixed African American Vice President in your list sort of highlights an arrogance among some.

An open convention would be a disaster, and leave us more divided than 2016 did.

I suggest you listen to someone who knows the situation

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1321&pid=23622

[Elessar Zappa]

96. Biden's the nominee and will remain so

unless he gets really sick or dies, which I don’t foresee happening. So accept this and get on board to help him get elected. And remember, the terms of service on this website are that we must support the Democratic nominee. I hope that’s what you intend to do.

[Emile]

76. K & R. Great post and great opinion!

[JohnSJ]

80. I agree with everything except "if Biden loses then it is Biden fault".

There are many variables at play which President Biden has no control over.

How the media presents a story is paramount. Hillary was ahead in the polls by about four points before Comey sent a letter to the republicans in Congress saying they were seeing if there was new information on a laptop 11 days before the general election. The illustrious media outlets then proceeded to parade republican and right wing pundits across the airwaves saying “the email investigation had been reopened. That was a LIE. While that media frenzy was going on, Bret Baher of Fox News came out and said according to hiss FBI sources they were about ready to invade the Clinton Foundation for illegal activity. Two days later Baher came out and said that information about the Clinton Foundation was wrong and said his source was wrong and apologized.

Late Friday the weekend before the general election, Comey quietly came out and said the laptop they were looking at had no new information and no need for additional investigation. The damage had been done though, and the 4 point lead Hillary had completely disappeared to even.

After this debate, The major newspapers and media decided to make news by declaring that President Biden needed to “drop out for the good of the country”, in editorials, some accented with extreme nastiness. Not on issues, but on a weak debate performance. I don’t believe major newspapers have ever done that before.

I do remember the media pushing into attacking Iraq based on a LIE.

[betsuni]

87. Agree. This is correct.

[JohnSJ]

90. Thanks. It won't happen, but if Biden doesn't campaign it critical swing states, that

would be on him, but he is already doing it.

[EarlG]

99. To clarify

I'm not personally suggesting that it would be Biden's fault. There are a million different factors in play here. My intent was to reinforce the suggestion that any Democrat who is currently considering a run in 2028 will be highly likely to avoid challenging Biden now, because no matter who wins the 2024 election, they will have clean hands going into 2028. If Biden were to lose, they can say "nothing to do with me -- I gave him my full support." The backhanded implication is that from their point of view, it would be Biden's fault, and not theirs. Apologies if that was unclear.

[JohnSJ]

107. Thanks, I assumed that was the case and throughly agree with your analysis

[AKwannabe]

81. K&R

[JohnSJ]

84. Lawrence O'Donnell made it clear for those who don't know the

Situation

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1321&pid=23622

[Peacetrain]

85. Thank you for the wise words!!

[mahina]

86. Thank you!

[Bozvotros]

89. That needs to be published widely as soon as possible

Thanks Earl G

[Niagara]

91. Rec!

[dai13sy]

93. Thank you for this post

It really helped me remember all the positive, solid reasons I voted for President Biden and all the scary, horrible reasons Trump can never be President again. We need honorable and smart and really good at what they do, not evil empire types that want to harm everything. It doesn't work in the United States

[Maeve]

94. I am reminded of the day Palin became VP candidate

Skinner was right then and you are right now.

[onandup]

95. Clarification, please

Is it a violation of DU rules to discuss Joe possibly deciding to step down or to express the opinion that his stepping down would be best? Keeping in mind that even if one has this opinion they should back Joe as long as he stays the course.

To be clear, I don't think Whitmer, Newsome or any prominent Democrat will pressure him. They understand it could hurt his chances if he remains. The decision should and will be completely voluntary on Joe's part. There should not be and will not be any attempted "coup".

I'd note a plurality of Democrats in a recent poll said Joe should be replaced. I don't think that means they refuse to support him or want to lose. On the contrary, it's because they want to win and it's their opinion of how to best achieve that.

[EarlG]

98. From the rules

"Do not post anything that could be construed as bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for any Democratic general election candidate."

Joe Biden is our general election candidate for President, so if you're calling for him to step down or for someone else to force him out, then yes, you are breaking the rule. DU's primary season ended months ago with no serious opposition to Biden. The time to pick a different candidate has long since passed.

[orangecrush]

97. Replace Biden?

Fuck that noise.

Link to tweet

[love_katz]

102. Just the medicine that we needed. Thank you EarlG.

There's so much riding on this election, the stakes are so high, that anything that looks like a stumble creates terrible fear. Thank you for focusing on logic and calm thinking.

[Frank D. Lincoln]

104. This post made my day for sure.

Thanks, EarlG.

DU, let's resolve to totally kick Trump's fuckin' ass in November.

[DemocraticPatriot]

105. THANK you, EarlG !!!!!

[Progressive dog]

106. Thank you

I agree completely.

[IronLionZion]

108. Correct, it's way too late for that

I'm ridin with Biden for 2024 and we will have 4 years to make Gretchen our first woman president, or Kamala, or whoever.

[calimary]

110. Works for me!

And so does he. He actually works for ALL of us, and has plenty of accomplishments to show for it.

I’m STILL “Ridin’ with Biden.”

[idahoblue]

111. The President did not sound or act his usual self.

We know he had a cold, he tested negative for Covid. I am wondering if he had a reaction to cough medicine. All they symptoms were there.
Then he was back to normal the following day.
If just doesn’t add up, something was definitely off.

[ibegurpard]

112. What's shocking to me

Are the serious people who continue to make the suggestion. History and logistics are not on their side.
Biden's demeanor and behavior immediately after reinforce that his debate shitshow was just a bad night. Yes it sucks and it's hurt us but if there were serious chronic cognitive problems he wouldn't be running.
Don't suggest he needs to step aside. Sell him.
Biden has come closer than any Democratic president in my adult life to the ideals and policy that I think the Democratic Party should hew to. Better than Clinton. Better than Obama. He's just faced a firestorm of media headwinds and an inexplicable blase attitude about tooting his own horn.

[sarchasm]

113. Damn right!

[RVN VET71]

114. You described the situation perfectly.

And for God's sake, folks, follow the signature admonition of the late and still bereaved Douglas Adams: Don't Panic!

I saw what I saw in that debate. Trump took up all the oxygen in the room with his bumptious lies. But it was less the lies than the energy that people saw. And that energy stood out in stark contrast to the tired and raspy voiced President.

But Trump's DID lie. Trump's statements of policy, of history, were all, all of them, lies, bald-faced and soiled-diaper lies.
So there's not a lot of traction Donnie Fatso's performance will ultimately have gained moving forward to November.

Biden's performance, on the other hand, displayed a tired octogenarian's weariness and fatigue after a grueling schedule of work in Europe that would have -- and probably did -- tax the stamina of many of the staff and others in his entourage. But face it, there 4 months to go before election day and, between now and then, Biden will appear in public and show himself to be exactly what he is: an intellectually vigorous patriot who is running to save the nation from fascism and corporate corruption and to firmly re-establish American democracy and make this country what Ronald Reagan referred to as a "shining city on a hill" once again, a beacon to the world of freedom and democracy.

And the proof is in the pudding, folks. The day after the debate debacle, the President gave a speech in North Carolina with his batteries re-charged after his sojourn in Europe. That speech was, in a word: Magnificent! His performance was that of a clear headed, determined and strong leader. His voice had strength. His gestures were fluid and appropriate to his words, his smile bright and genuine.

That, that right there, is the Joe Biden I expect to see over the next 4 months. That's the Joe Biden I'm going to vote for in November.

[Danascot]

115. The hysteria and panic is not all bad

Before the debate some of us seemed to have become complacent, feeling Biden was surging and his reelection is a given. That's the last thing we need because everything is at stake with this election. Fear can paralyze us or motivate us. We need to support Biden, donate to dems, work on campaigns, write postcards, make calls and everything else to GOTV like never before.

So hopefully some of that hair on fire energy can be channeled into positive action to support Biden and elect dems all the way down the ballot.

[intrepidity]

117. Very well said.

(and, because there is nothing I can add to your wonderfully-worded piece, and excuse my pedantry, but thank you for using the phrase "political calculation" rather than the oft-used "calculus" which just irks me whenever I hear it.)

[bobnicewander]

118. Thank you EarlG!!

Great post! Excellent timing.

[Cyrano]

119. You make a good case, Earl G. Now, more than ever,

Democrats must turn a powerful, harsh spotlight on Trump's threat to our democracy.

[GaYellowDawg]

122. This is a GREAT post

I think you nailed everything.

[RamblingRose]

123. GREAT POST! Can I use it to cancel my subscription to the AJC???!

[Mr. Mustard 2023]

125. Now that the shock has worn off,

after the debate, I realize if President Biden becomes ill, Vice President Harris will be empowered by the Cabinet.

The next candidate would then be chosen at the convention, so the plans are in place if a president becomes unable to perform his or her duties.

The play is unconditional support for President Biden, no grumbling either and if the worst happens, unconditional support for whoever emerges from the Democratic Party Convention.

It will be messy but it could also work in our favor. This doesn't necessarily mean it'll be bad for Democrats. People will be paying attention, and the "candidates" should be able to get their messages out.

There's really no other choices if you want to beat the Deadbeat Felon T*ump.

May President Biden continue to enjoy good health for many years, and he beats the sh*t out of the orange felon Republicon, lying con man.

[Tommy Carcetti]

126. Ted Kennedy did no favors to his legacy...

…challenging Carter in 1980.

[Linda ladeewolf]

128. I'm sticking with Biden. I watched very little of the debate.

I’m sticking with Joe. I don’t bother much with debate or speeches. I see what Biden has done. If that’s senility, I’m all for it. He’s done a good job of keeping the country running in spite of the Tom foolery of the republicans, he’s even managed to force them to make some favorable decisions. If we keep him as nominee, he will win again. That’s all I have to say.

[iemanja]

129. Everything discussed on this site is

Last edited Thu Jul 4, 2024, 01:44 AM - Edit history (1)

an academic, or not so academic, exercise. Moreover, people can banish all articulated doubt about Biden on this site, and it will do absolutely nothing to change the larger, outside political discourse or the outcome of the election.

Obviously, no change can be made unless Biden steps down, and there are conflicting press reports about whether he is considering it. In all likelihood, he will become the official nominee and we shall have to wait until November to see what that brings.