What is disgusting to me is the failure among some to rally behind a very successful President because of one bad night

[JohnSJ]

The issues have not changed, and the differences between the candidates on those issues have not changed, and most Americans know that.

[mcar]

1. This!

[Joinfortmill]

2. I'm with you. A lot of it was optics and we can blame much of that on CNN

[emulatorloo]

5. Well for me the "optics" were a decent guy under the weather vs a deranged lying autocrat wannabe.

Fwiw seems liked the focus groups saw similar, while the “professionals” got everything wrong.

[wnylib]

18. The debate accomplished one of Biden's main goals

which was to expose Trump's lies and lack of character early in the campaign season to remind people why they fired him in 2020.

Now Biden supporters are fired up and ready to stand behind him regardless of the pundits and newspapers.

[The Unmitigated Gall]

8. They screwed around with Howard Dean's candidacy too. nt

[nbsmom]

71. Who are "they" and what did they do?

Would like to know more.

[The Unmitigated Gall]

74. "The Dean Scream"...

You can actually google it up, if you want. He was in a packed ballroom full of stomping, yelling and cheering supporters, I think it was in Iowa. He was fired up and yelling over them the states they were going to take on next, and he gave out this primal yell.
The media took it and ran with it on a "Holy shit he's come unglued!" angle.
There were accusations that CNN screwed with their recording, minimizing the ambient ruckus and amplifying his voice, and Impersonally think they're right. You listened to it on some recordings and it almost sounds like he did it at a quiet dinner gathering. Other recordings show he could barely be heard over the noise he was surrounded by; there was no inappropriateness whatsoever; the entire space was energized.
But the "scream" was removed from it's context and used to sink his candidacy. It was played over and over and over again and shrub, with his criminal neglect of the nation's security, got a second term.

[summer_in_TX]

76. The recordings of the "Dean. scream" used a highly

directional mic that picked up Dean’s voice but very little of the ambient sound. So when they played it on the news, over and over again, his voice level sounded demented for the circumstances. They hounded him into dropping out.

I’ve never known a Republican candidate for president to be hounded out or a media frenzy that arguably caused them to lose. Have you? Have I forgotten someone?

[BlueMTexpat]

94. I will NEVER forget

NOR forgive that!

I have been a Howard Dean fan since 2000. When he headed the DNC, he led Dems to victory.

IMO, he was shamefully treated afterwards b/c of Rahm Emanuel, who hated him.

[DAngelo136]

97. They Did The Same Thing To Jimmy Carter

Way back when, then President Carter during the throes of the economic shock perpetrated by OPEC putting their oil behind their politics, he made a nationally televised speech to the nation about what we needed to do going forward.
It was calm, straightforward and laid out what the nation would need to do going forward. The speech itself was titled: "Crisis of Confidence". It was delivered on July 15th 1979.
By the end of the week, it was labeled by the media and pundits as "The Malaise Speech" despite the fact the word "malaise" wasn't even in the speech. Even when Carter, decided to take the bold step of shaking up the Cabinet (Which corporate CEO's do when they want to take the company in a new direction, strategically) It was interpreted by the media as "panic" on the part of Carter. Not to mention the internal political fights taking place within the Democratic Party itself (Sound familiar?)
As explained in this Slate article, the Republicans were ready to weaponize and take advantage of the situation: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/10/jimmy-carter-energy-crisis-malaise-speech-biden-supply-chain.html

Let's be clear eyed; the punditocracy and the for profit corporate media prefer the chaos and confusion of the "horse race" narrative. And they despise Biden because: he's workmanlike (normal doesn't get clicks or eyeballs), no scandals, and more importantly, no leaks. And let's be frank, today's journalists are lazy b*stards who depend on access rather than good old fashioned investigation and reporting.

Nobody of importance or significance in the party is calling for Biden to step down, step aside or step back anywhere. If anything, Trump was the big loser in the debate; he lied so much and so often, even if Biden was on top of his game that night, he couldn't have done much to stop it anyway. Not to mention, CNN swallowed the fact checking they were supposed to do. If there's going to be another debate, I want THIS guy to moderate: Kyle Clark

Now, maybe Joe won't come off well with this guy, but Trump won't get away with crap either. I'll take my chances on that.

Bottom line: The media isn't a friend; they're not "enemies of the state" like Trump says, either. But know that they have their agenda (ratings) and it's not geared to inform the public anymore. There are more of us than there are of them, and if we show up and show out, we win; it's that simple. Not only is Joe a better man, he's also got a better team around him. So, we stay the course, keep our eyes on the prize and Trump loses and goes to jail. Can't ask for better than that.

[former9thward]

90. CNN?

The Biden campaign set up all the rules and the Trump campaign accepted them without changes.

[blue-wave]

92. I'll chime in and say what I read on another post:

CNN.......spit!!!

Yeah, CNN is on the side of Joe Biden and the democrats. My ass! So how many lies did they call-out on good 'ol Trumpy? Uhhhh, that would be zero.

[former9thward]

98. One of the rules (by the Biden campaign) was no fact checking.

CNN followed the agreed to rules

[marble falls]

3. We're being trolled and some of us have bought into it. Joe Biden/Kamala Harris all the way!

[Oopsie Daisy]

4. Yes. It's not surprising to me WHO those individuals are. For example: Cenk Unger *

* a big ol' Bernie or Buster type of pundit and who only grudgingly "supported" Biden is among those who are (still) openly hostile to Biden, sadly.

[emulatorloo]

6. +++++++

[valleyrogue]

14. I suspect more than a few are RFK or other third-party supporters

That is just an inkling I have. I have no proof to support my views.

[TBF]

25. Bernie himself is still sending us emails pretty frequently - he supports Joe!

I think Bernie has taken to his role in the Senate. He is still pushing to support the working class - as he has always done - and he has a solid chair from which to do it. So any "Bernie Bros" who are still annoyed, I was there too & absolutely frustrated in 2016, but I've gotten over it.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

62. Of course Bernie supports Joe... that's the Bernie we all know and love!!

Even though Bernie is fully capable of kickin Trump's ass in a landslide and, thus, would be high on the list of substitutes, he remains deeply loyal to Biden.

[FakeNoose]

7. It's the way the media piled on - that's what I found disgusting

Joe Biden has two opponents to beat in November.

We know he'll do fine against the Repuke candidate. But how can he possibly beat the US news media when they've all ganged up against him relentlessly for the last 4 years?

We Democrats who are paying attention - and especially those of us on DU - have been watching and commenting on the US media since the last election and even before that. The news media hold most of the cards in this election. They are doing their best to see that Biden loses and that Chump stumbles his way back into the White House.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

48. But whatabout age...

[FakeNoose]

57. So what's your point?

I'm thinking I should alert this ... or maybe you're trying to say something constructive here?

[Hermit-The-Prog]

63. You pointed out the media piling on; my post provides further evidence of just that.

The post from lolgop includes a link to an article that gives more detail on M$M's bias.

[FakeNoose]

72. OK sorry I'm so touchy

For a minute I thought you were jumping on the "dump Biden" bandwagon.

This has been a crazy couple of days on DU, and everywhere else.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

73. Understandable. It's a bad time for me to try a dry, sarcastic reply title. Sorry.

I guess we shouldn't be shocked by the upswelling of attacks on our President Joe -- he's accomplished so much that the other side will jump on any little thing they can find.

Meanwhile:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/therecord/

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

96. I cannot believe anyone could misinterpret

your post! Totally clearly supporting Biden!

[DemocraticPatriot]

64. Rather than just 'make Biden lose'-- now they are trying to push him OUT

of this race altogether, innocently pretending that they don't KNOW that this would ensure a Trump victory.

Still waiting for their demands that TRUMP withdraw from this election,
as any convicted felon/rapist/liar/insurrectionist and Hitler wannabe
would have been forced to do in the not so distant past!

[Terry_M]

9. You're looking at the wrong things

Whether I rally behind or not, or you rally behind or not, or the other members of this forum rally behind or not is NOT IMPORTANT AT ALL. I'm voting the same way you're voting regardless of what happens basically.

What matters is:
1. What the soft voters do. It only takes as few as 14,000 2020 Biden soft voters shrugging the election off completely to lose all of the electoral college votes of one state and have them transferred over to Trump.
2. What those soft voters do is probably not really that affected by this one debate in June. What they do will be more affected by whether our presidential candidate has more incoherent moments at rallies, debates, at the convention, etc. Can you guarantee he won't have more incoherent moments? I can't - I fear that he will. If I had to bet money on it right now - I would comfortably put money on him having repeats of the worst moments in this debate between now and November. Would you put money on him not having more of those moments over the next 4 months?
Thus I fear that he will bleed his way to losing just enough soft voters to lose some of those swing states.

I personally know 2 soft democratic voters in one of the 6 states that matter, and he's very well on his way to losing both of those voters (this debate performance which they did watch only helped push them in the vote-third-party direction) and thus I am very much afraid.

[Deek1935]

11. It would be beyond insane to change nominees at this late date. Totally and completely insane.

If we changed nominees over one bad debate we would lose party unity and incumbency which are predictive of elective presidential success. It would hand the election to Trump. Full stop.

[Terry_M]

23. Do you have data behind this?

I do not - so I don't really know - I do wonder - for the people who have continuous updated polling data... Is it insane? If there is good data that shows that someone else would have a better shot despite this being 'late' to pivot, then we 100% should pivot immediately. If there is good data indicating the other point - that if we rapidly pivoted that there would be an overall loss of support, then sure we shouldn't.

I don't think calling the idea insane without the data is at all fair.

[DFW]

65. How did George McGovern look after dropping his VP pick, Tom Eagleton, late in 1972?

That should be data enough for anyone.

[DemocraticPatriot]

67. History strongly suggests that when a party does not re-nominate its incumbent president,

they will fail to win the General Election.

It hasn't been done since 1856, when the Democratic party ditched Franklin Pierce over slavery issues, and instead nominated James Buchanan, who hadn't been involved in the fight over the Kansas-Nebraska Act and other slavery issues because he had been serving overseas as an ambassador...

As far as 'hard data' goes, any and all polling on possible Democratic alternative nominees done over the past year has shown ALL of them running behind President Biden versus Trump in a general election.

Further, if President Biden withdraws, all of those many millions of dollars he raised for his campaign are essentially lost-- it is not legal to simply transfer it to another presidential candidate--- so any alternate would be back to square zero as far as money is concerned.

[LeftInTX]

69. Yes. Thank you for the explanation

The media makes it sound so easy, but it isn't.


And you think party infighting is bad now? If he withdraws, it's gonna get worse!

[LeftInTX]

68. Read this in it's entirety..Ignore the headline

snips

'It's a mess': Biden turns to family on his path forward after his disastrous debate

Inherent in the wait-and-see approach is an acknowledgment that there is no clear replacement for Biden and that his departure could touch off a bloody eleventh-hour intraparty battle that might allow Trump to cruise to victory.

There’s also no feasible way to force him from his perch. All but a handful of the delegates to the Democratic convention were elected on their pledge to nominate him at the party’s convention in August. If he chooses to stand for that nomination, party insiders say, he will get it.

Moreover, according to a senior Democratic official, the party leadership would have much more control over choosing a replacement if Biden were to drop out after receiving the nomination than if he did so beforehand. Once a candidate is officially nominated, there is a process for the Democratic National Committee members to choose a successor. Biden is the dominant force at the DNC, and his preference for a successor would surely carry sway.

If Biden were to exit before that, his delegates might do what he asked of them — but they wouldn’t be bound in the same way they are now. In that scenario, the delegates could nominate anyone, and there could be a political brawl at the convention.

“We need to have as much discipline as emotion,” the senior Democratic official said. “It’s not politically smart for Biden to step down.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/biden-family-path-forward-disastrous-debate-mess-rcna159591

[/highlight

]




However, there could be a problem if he exits after the convention and the new nominee chosen by the Democratic National Committee, which is quite different than the Democratic National Convention. Our convention is so late, that many states are already getting those overseas ballots ready. In Texas overseas and military ballots must be mailed out by Sept 21st. (I'm pretty sure this is federal requirement, not just a Texas thing). It's alot of work to get the ballots ready. Fortunately, it's easier to replace a statewide race than local races. (Mainly because everyone will have the same presidential race on their ballot) In our county, I believe there are 30 different ballot styles that go out.

[JohnSJ]

12. If there is a "soft Democratic voter" that even considers a third party candidate in

this election, they don’t care about a woman’s right to choose, have no problem with a racist, sexist, bigot, appointing Supreme Court nominees, have no environmental concerns, do not care about voting rights, workers rights, civil rights, etc., then frankly they lack critical thinking skills and are not serious because a third party vote is a vote for trump. There are no excuses or rationalizations.

The primaries are over, both Biden and trump exceeded the number of pledged delegates to clinch the nomination on the first round.

That is the reality, and if they cannot accept that and throw their vote away on a third party candidate who won’t win, then there is no point wasting time with someone who lacks the critical thinking skills how elections are done in this country. Frankly they are a bunch of losers, and I would have more confidence in a never trumper voting for Biden then them.

There is not going to be different candidates, it will either be Biden or trump.

[onecaliberal]

16. They'd rather support a rapist who killed a million people with his lies.

There is not another scenario.

[thesquanderer]

22. Even I don't know where "killed a million people with his lies" is coming from.

I did see an estimate that TFG's poor handling of COVID probably increased the number of COVID deaths by 180k... what else?

(And the percentage of voters who are even aware of THAT is probably pretty small.)

[Silent Type]

32. trump will counter with BS that more people died from Covid under Biden, even though they had the vaccine.

Which is true, thought much more nuanced than that.

Then, trump will say that the vaccine was developed in record time because trump got it fast-tracked while he was exploring drinking bleach and shining bright lights up peoples' rears.

[onecaliberal]

33. The ignorance and stupidity is burning us all.

https://www.businessinsider.com/analysis-trump-covid-19-response-40-percent-us-deaths-avoidable-2021-2

A report on the Trump administration's policies suggested 40% of US COVID-19 deaths were avoidable.
Compared with six similarly wealthy countries, the US failed to protect citizens' health in the pandemic.
Trump publicly lied about COVID-19 and often undermined health guidelines.


Among so many other things. Also look up the number of people his gun policy.

[thesquanderer]

39. Yes, that link is where the 180k figure comes from. I was asking about the other 820k.

Gun deaths did go up in the Trump years, but even if you attributed 100% of the increase to poor Trump policies, it doesn't make much of a dent in that figure.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/258913/number-of-firearm-deaths-in-the-united-states/

(and "among so many other things"... examples?)

Saying "how can you vote for someone who caused a million deaths" is not going to fly if (a) it's not true, or (b) it's true but nobody knows it.

Meanwhile, I have a relative who indeed believes Trump's claims that Ukraine and Oct 7 would not have happened if Trump were in the WH (Ukraine because she thinks Putin feared Trump's response! And Oct 7 because she said Biden provided money to Iran that Trump was holding up, and that money was used to finance Hamas. I suspect these are Fox talking points.) The point is that while we are pinning (some number) of deaths on Trump, the other side is pinning a whole bunch of (Ukranian and Palestinian) deaths on Biden.

[gab13by13]

10. Joe Biden is much more than a very successful president,

his accomplishments speak for themselves.

No one in the history of the United Staes has received more votes for president than Joe Biden.

[TexasDem69]

78. And nobody who lost received more votes than Trump

Who received more votes than Obama. That’s a function of population growth.

[valleyrogue]

13. The debate is over. People need to move on.

The constant harping over Biden's cold-influenced performance makes me wonder what the motives of people who do it.

It is over. Move on.

[onecaliberal]

17. This!

[chouchou]

15. I forgot who said this but, I've always tried to keep this phrase in mind....

"One action does not constitute a Universe"

[DV1]

21. Yes,

but unfortunately many have allowed their 'universe' to be compromised.

[Ligyron]

28. Welcome to DU!

[Grins]

19. But the candidates have! In particular - one of them. NM

[garybeck]

24. Failure to acknowledge a problem does not help

It was more than just a bad night. He appeared incoherent. People are allowed to be concerned about this. I've been on DU for 20 years and I'm not a troll.

Saying everything is fine and condemning people for showing real concern after the debate is not helping.

[JohnSJ]

30. So what do you suggest Gary? An open convention? Telling those

pledged delegates committed to vote for Biden on the first round that we will choose someone else, who they can’t agree on, with many of those concerned ignoring VP Harris

By the end of that convention they will have pissed off Biden supporters and African American women to insure a Trump victory.

There will be only two candidates in this race and that will be Biden and Trump, and those refusing to accept that are not facing reality

So so we continue with the typical Democratic Party circular firing squad? How do you think that will help?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

54. It wont.

[JohnSJ]

59. Thanks for your input, and I agree. Unless President Biden decides to drop out, which he has given no indication

of doing so, the election is between Biden and trump.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

66. Precisely! Thats why we need to REDOUBLE our efforts instead of runnin scared like the Dem media pundits are doin...

Our democracy is at stake damn it... let's act like it!! GO JOE!!

[stopdiggin]

40. quite true, but - 1) I think the 'problem' is well overblown

(with many of the 'concerned' so clearly and obviously primed and waiting)
2) there is no viable alternative, nor viable process in getting to that alternative, should one exist.

And if some sort of (messy) 'sausaged' and mangled process be undertaken ...
Probably to no avail - in that, IMO, it would almost insure a devastating loss in November.

(I keep hearing people suggest that some barely known name - or even more fancifully, Bernie Sanders - is somehow going to pick this up on there shoulders and power n through ... Like that has any remote chance ... )

[hay rick]

45. I agree.

We should be the party of open discussion, not another party of blind cheerleading. Biden had a terrible debate. In 2024 you can not "win" a debate based on substance if you self-immolate on style. It is self-defeating to pretend that this campaign will occur in front of an informed electorate or be moderated by an even-handed media.

[ananda]

26. Is there anyone here not rallying behind Joe?

I don't see any, and all of my friends and acquantances
are also.

[JohnSJ]

31. Yes, there is no other choice. The election is between Biden and trump, and wishing it were otherwise is not

going to make it so.

[onecaliberal]

34. Yes. There are many.

[Joinfortmill]

27. Yup. They're frightened.

Gonna run and hide under the bed because of a bad debate night. Some of these clowns are in my own family.

[JohnSJ]

37. ok, but in the end if it is between Biden and trump, they are going to vote for Biden I strong suspect.

They may not be happy, but what other choice is there?

[MorbidButterflyTat]

56. It's sickening.

It's even worse when they INSIST upon infecting the rest of us with their imagined doomsday scenarios.

[IbogaProject]

29. Biden has been a great President

Any issues we face are the Wealthy and the corrupt GOP who are at least partially captured by criminal and Russian money.

[Ligyron]

35. We will know better in a week or so how this effects the election.

If Trump is crowned Emperor tomorrow things will change dramatically possibly rendering all moot.

Trump could still be prosecuted for stealing documents I assume since he was not President at the time he committed those crimes. But then look who miraculously ended up as judge in that trial.

It's looking more and more like the RW GOP and it's allies have covered all the bases.

[Progressive dog]

36. I agree

There seem to be a lot of people who want to help that orange convicted felon, conman, and admitted dictator wannabe.
I am not going to pretend that flooding the media with more crap about Joe Biden's age is anything but disgusting.
We have only one candidate at a time. The primaries are over, the delegates are pledged, Joe Biden won and he is the choice of the Democratic party.
Those who continue to bring up a settled issue rather than spend their effort to elect Joe is disgusting. Joe comes with a known team, a platform, and (believe it or not) a vice president who will lead the team if anything happens to Joe.

[jrthin]

38. I totally agree w/you!

Also, all the noise for him to step aside is hurting the party and our chances.

[Beck23]

41. Something else

Also, Trump had fake, colored hair and orange makeup which made him look younger. Without that, TFG looks REALLY BAD.

Biden didn't have fake hair or hair color. He also didn't wear orange makeup.

[Texin]

42. I agree. But, I'll admit I turned away from it that night in discouragement and with anxiety.

I did, however, see a clip that calmed me down significantly yesterday from the debate late into the 90 minutes. It was around the 1 hour.58 minute mark on the CNN YouTube clip. Tapper's question to TSF was about the rising costs of child care. Instead of answering the question TSF rambled on about himself and unnamed *historians* that named him as among "the best" US presidents (said no one ever), and he rambled on for the next two minutes allotted about what a great guy he is and how smart, etc. He never even touched the question. During that two minute period I watched Biden's reaction during his diatribe, and it was priceless: a mixture of appalled disbelief and bemusement. He was shaking his head and looking at the so-called *moderators* as if to ask "can you believe this guy?, and why in the hell aren't you shutting this jerk down for failing to address the posed question?"

Anyway, during his next question, Biden responded to them then rounded back to the question TSF refused to address about child care costs and proceeded to give examples of what the administration and the Democratic congress had enacted during the Covid crisis to address the cost of child care with the child tax credit enacted, etc.

It also has helped to see polling that indicates that the viewing audience was paying more attention to what was actually being said both candidates, and they indicated they were leading more to Biden than to TSF than before the debate. They media is responsible for stirring the pot and whipping people into a bed-wetting tizzy. It's as if every so-called journalist with any kind of forum is in a race with every other of their ilk to see who can win the race for most relevance and ratings.

[JohnSJ]

43. I don't think there is much choice. All indications are President Biden

has no intention to step down, and whether people like it or not, these are the candidates we have. Biden verses trump. People need to choose one

[LeftInTX]

52. Changing candidates would be a huge crises for the party

The Democratic Party is more than just the president. It would turn the party upside down. You think there's infighting now?
If he vacated, it would be chaos.
The convention would be a s___ show.
Delegates would all be uncommitted and there could be like 10 candidates for president or something crazy.
It would probably be: Bernie, Kamala, Gavin, Gretchen.
However, all the drama could hurt those candidates.
We want to protect our base, not fracture it. (As if it isn't fractured enough)

[calimary]

44. THIS!!!

THIS! THIS!! THIS!!!

I am STILL “Ridin’ with BIDEN!!!” Definitely, Absolutely, Positively, and Most CERTAINLY!!!

[somaticexperiencing]

46. i personally wish there was more unity and understnainding. Are we united in wanting and needing to win this slection?

Does that not include discussing strategy?

[dlk]

47. We need to be realistic and still support our canndidate

It’s too late to put anyone else on the ballot.

Keep in mind, Joe does the job brilliantly; more effectively than any president in decades. He had a bad night, which makes him human.

We can’t give in to the agism and double standard. Too much is at stake and the other guy is a fascist psychopath. Let’s all roll up our sleeves and do everything we possibly can to help Joe win this election.

[we can do it]

49. +1000

[Hikerchick57]

50. Totally agree!

Nothing really about the stream of lies coming from the orange narcissist and his continued vile behavior!

[ColinC]

51. The success of posts like this vs posts that you're talking about is encoruaging

There is a very vocal minority trying to undermine and depress voters from supporting Biden. It needs to stop.

[TexasDem69]

79. Nobody on DU is trying to suppress support for Biden

Against Trump. Some posit that there might be a Democrat with a better chance of winning in November. That’s not supporting Trump.

[totodeinhere]

53. One problem is that the media is saturated with commentaries

Iindicating that Joe should withdraw. Even the most liberal publications are saying this. So what are people supposed to think?

[LeftInTX]

61. I'm really pissed at the media. The DNC is against what they are saying for good reason.

The media does not seem to understand how modern presidential nominations work. They seem to think a bunch of people can just throw Joe out.
They think if Joe drops out that the convention would "just nominate someone".
Unfortunately, the convention could be shit show of fighting over a new nominee.

Convention delegates are not always the brightest.
Some have "drama and power issues" within their local parties.
At my state convention, we had a few crazies who filed for delegate.
Many won. The state convention's focus for us is about who controls the state party for the next two years, the SDEC (State Democratic Executive Committee) are hard fought races.

We also vote for our Democratic National Committee reps, although the SDEC is more "local" and "personal".

National delegate is like, "Well the position is temporary and we already have a nominee", so even if this person is a pain, it's better that they are a delegate than on the SDEC.
Delegate is a once in a lifetime event for lots of people.

You could get a faction who wants to nominate AOC. You could get Bernie. Liz Warren.
Sometimes delegates will do stuff "for show", like nominate someone crazy like Cornel West.
There would be a camp for Kamila
There would also be infighting between a camp for Gretchen Witmer vs Gavin Newsom.
You could get a group of Blue Dogs who want to nominate Joe Manchin etc or bring RFK Jr into the fold.
Someone from Texas would nominate Julian Castro because they feel he was wronged...

No, no, no....

[UTUSN]

55. K&R for, it's happened before - they hounded Ed MUSKIE and Howard DEAN over nothings

Somehow they don't faze Drumpf.

[Think. Again.]

58. We need to remember that most of the "discouraged" are not real...

...between the bots, the propaganda, and the media trying to stir up views for their advertisers, this whole thing is being blown up much more than anyone would care about with those things.

[TexasDem69]

80. Claire McCaskill disagrees

Quit trying to put lipstick on a pig.

[Think. Again.]

85. There is no pig.

[ClickClack]

83. Sorry to burst that bubble, but I am real and discouraged; also very worried. (eom)

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

60. I do not feel disgust at those that want to strategize.

I feel that virtually all are still here to rally behind Biden. But, if talks happen about the way forward, at the white house and think tank level, it is not disgusting to me. The problem with the one bad night idea of yours is that many people believe that they can make a diagnosis with after seeing one demonstration.

[alarimer]

70. I was wrong and panicked initially

I ended up not watching the whole debate because I couldn't stand it, so my impression was skewed for sure.

I am still very uneasy but even moreso because of the Supreme Court debacle. Trump will finish off the administrative state by eliminatind the Civil Service and staffing the governement solely with right-wing lackeys. No need to worry about agency expertise when it's staffed by MAGA idiots.

I now think switching candidates is worse, on balance, than sticking with Biden. I don't care if he ends up not serving a full term. He can resign the day after inauguration if he wants. The point is just to win. I don't know if anyone else can beat Trump, which is sad because that should be the easiest thing in the world.

I think the hang-wringing is way, way worse than anything that Biden did at the debate. I want DEM operatives to GROW A SPINE.

[Playingmantis]

75. You miss the point

Its not a matter of not rallying behind Biden...Its questioning he has what it takes to crush the Orange Cockroach..
Biden is tied in the polls and needs to be winning by a large margin.. Debate did not help matters..
Of course I will vote for Biden if its a Biden Trump rematch.. but what about the millions who need to be awakened to the dangers of Trump? Can Biden do that? Thats our worry...and PS... If Biden stays in I hope I am proven wrong..

[ClickClack]

84. THIS (eom)

[Duncanpup]

77. Excellent post

[NoMoreRepugs]

81. The pearl clutching is ridiculous. The country is booming because of JoeB, fuck the perception of a "bad" debate.

Grow some people. The impossible standards to be the perfect candidate are figments of imagination for some.

[dlk]

82. There's never a shortage of shallow, fair-weather pundits and voters

We have shortchanged our President by not giving him nearly enough credit for his incredible accomplishments. One bad night doesn't negate all of it and we shouldn't follow in the footsteps of the biased and shallow MSM, who care more about the horse race than the good our country.

[Yorkist]

91. This....

….is ridiculous.

The future of democracy is at stake, and wittering on about what Biden has done in the past isn’t going to cut it.

People, undecideds and waverers especially, didn’t see a man who’s “under the weather”, “old” or toubled by “a cold”. People saw serious cognitive decline, that you can’t fix in time for the next one because it’s getting worse not better.

[duckworth969]

86. Here, here!

[bignutz1]

87. Absolutely

The democratic party should be giving Biden the go ahead to lie and call names and lie some more just like trump to wake up the undecided voters whom usually vote democrat that if they are even thinking about voting for scum bag trump that Biden can give them to same b.s. if they want.

[SupportSanity]

88. Let's see how much the democrats took in for this month. People pull

together for different reasons. Not everyone is complaining.

[PortTack]

89. Yes...disappointing...even more so that there were posters right here on DU doing it!

[Wingus Dingus]

93. A typical bad night in a debate is if one candidate didn't best his opponent, wasn't totally on top of his game.

That's not what this was. This was like watching someone suddenly have a medical emergency right in front of you. Take Trump and the debate format and prep out of consideration, because it's irrelevant. Biden looked and acted different, unhealthy, and lost/confused in a public appearance, AND he's the sitting President! It's way beyond a typical bad night at a debate. That's why there's a freakout. It's a gut punch.

[Silent3]

95. Defeating Trump is the number one goal...

...of most Democrats. Loyalty to Biden, the man himself, isn't, and shouldn't be, held as important.

The problem with replacing Biden, which many people don't understand, is the logistics of getting unified support behind any possible replacement, and spinning up a campaign out of nothing for someone else with so little time left.

Replacing Biden is impractical, and that's what makes rallying behind Biden most important. Loyalty to Biden for all he's done is, for its own sake, is not something we could afford if that happened to conflict with getting the best odds of defeating Trump.