Joe told the First Lady he didn't feel well.

[Cattledog]

At a fundraiser later Friday, the first lady told donors her husband had admitted something went wrong.

“After last night’s debate, he said, ‘You know, Jill, I don’t know what happened. I didn’t feel that great,’” she recounted. “And I said, ‘Look, Joe, we are not going to let 90 minutes define the four years that you’ve been president.’”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/30/how-biden-debate-prep-led-to-damaging-event/

[PeaceWave]

1. There is a player in the NBA called Davion "Off Night" Mitchell...

The reason they call him "off night" is that everyone whom he guards seems to have an "off night." At some point, we need to acknowledge that everyone who debates Trump is going to have an off night. The reason, of course, is that the man makes up the rules as he goes along. Unfortunately, I think his existence may have forever changed what is deemed acceptable behavior among politicians - certainly among the GOP. Debates will never be the same.

[BlueTsunami2018]

6. Hillary didn't have a problem with him.

Nor did Joe last time around.

Thats not an excuse.

[edisdead]

40. I think every answer should be

I think every answer that Joe gives should be “Rhis debate is a farce because the other man on the stage says nothing but lies. Here is the truth….”

[andym]

2. They probably didn't prep him against what Trump would do--this is not correct

Last edited Mon Jul 1, 2024, 02:34 AM - Edit history (2)

nearly well enough. He seemed caught between trying to tell Bidenesque stories he prepared and responding to the barrage of Trump's lies. That really threw him off. [I read truncated version of the article at first, in reality Biden was well prepared, he just was not "on"]

[MichMan]

3. They prepared for a week

[Ms. Toad]

4. Read the article.

He was prepared with answers to the lies Trump told - and failed to deliver them.

Every topic he was asked about Thursday, he had practiced answers for — including the final one about his age.

So aides were bewildered by his performance. Many felt they had never seen him collapse so dramatically. After all, Biden was a veteran of numerous debates — as a senator, vice-presidential nominee and presidential candidate. And they did not understand why he gave an entirely different answer on the age question than the one they spent more than a week perfecting.

[andym]

21. In reading the article now, it mentioned two excuses: overpreparation and time of day

Last edited Sun Jun 30, 2024, 11:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Overprepared with too many answers is certainly possible. Time of day is probably the most important as it said he "flagged" in the evening. Very difficult to fight circadian rhythms. But maybe he needs to take a nap before the debate.

[Ms. Toad]

22. Night people are forced to fight circadian rhythms all the time.

It's not fun, and in my experience they can't be changed (despite the significant shaming directed at night people). But it's not that hard to be functional - I've been doing it all my life.

My normal sleep cycle is falling asleep sometime between 2 and 4 AM and waking between 10 AM and noon. I taught high school for 11 years and was in my classroom by 7 AM, fully functional 5 days a week. On weekends - and in the summers - I reverted to my body's preferred schedule. Next semester I'll be in the classroom at 7:45 AM two days a week. I won't like it - but I won't have the kinds of difficulties I observed on Thursday evening.

[murielm99]

30. I am glad to see another night person.

I worked, but I spent a lifetime adjusting to my work schedule.

[andym]

37. Older people tend to have peak cognition in the morning

How that impacts someone who is traditionally a night person like yourself is uncertain. However, it suggests that Joe Biden would do better with an afternoon debate. Perhaps he should go on a two-week Hawaiian vacation before the next debate, so early evening will seem like early afternoon to him.

Evidence:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4067093/#:~:text=Older%20adults'%20peak%20performance%20on,to%20be%20in%20the%20afternoon.
Look Out – It’s Your Off-Peak Time of Day! Time of Day Matters More for Alerting than for Orienting or Executive Attention
Marisa Knight and Mara Mather
Exp Aging Res. 2013; 39(3): 305–321.

Abstract
Background
Older adults’ peak performance on memory and cognitive inhibition tasks tends to be in the morning while younger adults’ peak performance tends to be in the afternoon. Although these tasks require efficient attentional processes for optimal performance, previous research examining age differences in the effects of time of day has not measured the distinct aspects of attention quantified by the attentional network test (ANT; Fan, McCandliss, Sommer, & Posner, 2002).

Methods
We examined the relationship between time of testing and the efficiency of alerting, orienting and executive attention networks by randomly assigning younger (18–28 years; N = 27, M = 21.37 years, SD = 2.39) and older adults (65–85 years; N = 32, M = 73.34 years, SD = 5.18) to AM or PM testing of alerting, orienting and executive attention. Mean reaction times for each network was analyzed with a univariate ANOVA with age (younger, older) and time of day (AM, PM) as between-subjects factors.

Results
Consistent with our hypotheses, while time of day had little effect on orienting or executive attention, it affected alerting in opposite ways for younger and older adults, with alerting cues benefitting performance most at participants’ off-peak times of day. A larger benefit from alerting cues was observed when participants’ were tested at their off-peak (M = 30.11 ± 15.66) relative to their peak time (M = 2.18 ± 15.97).

Conclusion
Our findings show that age-related circadian patterns influence the alerting component of attention, with both age groups showing the largest benefit from alerting cues when testing occurs at non-optimal times of day. Overall, our findings underscore the importance of controlling for time of day in investigations of attention and add to our understanding of how age differences in circadian patterns impact attention.

[Ms. Toad]

44. I see nothing that suggests they accounted for other factors, equally - or more likely - to age

to account for the difference.

For example:

Did they account for normal sleep patterns. A disproportionate number of early birds in the older population compared to the younger population could easily show up the same way.

Did they account for sundowning. An elderly population is more likely to include people with dementia (at all stages) than the younger population - and afternoon decline is a known symptom of dementia. (They did administer the same test Trump has passed twice . . . so it clearly isn't a sufficient test to rule out anything more than very advanced dementia.)

Without a more rigorous exploration of factors, other than age, that would account for the difference it is just as much nonsense as the assertion that people who are still in bed at 11 AM are lazy.

This is an issue I've been fighting my entire life - not just personally, but professionally. That includes my most recent job where my boss was a morning person and had embedded morning person prejudices about when and how to study in study guides she had designed for all students. This highly educated person actually believed - as fact - all of the myths, until she worked with me (an objectively better student) and was finally able to start setting them aside.

[andym]

45. Yes the controlled for possible dementia, but not for sleep patterns

"All older individuals were screened in a phone interview for dementia using a version of the Mini-Mental State Examination (Folstein, Folstein, & McHugh, 1975).2 "

The whole article is available at the link.

The sleep patterns should average out among the groups given the size of the study. However, given that older people tend to have less sleep than younger folks, it would be useful to document not only morning vs evening folks but the role of total amount of sleep.

[Ms. Toad]

47. As I noted - that test is for gross dementia.

I read the article.

Trump passed that test twice. As does my spouse, regularly, despite taking two Alzheimer's medications for more than a decade. That test only rules out significantly advanced dementia

The study participants were self-selected, which means no assumptions can be made about whether the sleep patterns would average out.

The idea that older people tend to have less sleep than younger folks is also nonsense. At 67, I'm sleeping more than I've ever slept. At 92, both of my mother are sleeping more than they ever had - my mother at night; my father spread out over the day and night. Those 3 data points don't prove anything any more than a truism that older people tend to have less sleep than younger people does.

It would certainly be appropriate to include data about amount of sleep in the study - to help sort out more accurate and specific correlations, but the fact is that they used age alone as a stand in for a whole bunch of other factors that are just as likely, if not more, to influence peak mental acuity.

[forthemiddle]

42. Hope he doesn't get the infamous 3am call

More than anything I hope this time of day explanation doesn’t become the “bad night “ excuse of the day.
I can already see the campaign ads.
Does America really need a President that can’t perform when he has a cold, or if it’s too late at night.
I’m beginning to think that the best case for President Biden is “at least he’s not Trump”.

[tinrobot]

31. Biden was first to answer and his tone/delivery was just off...

It wasn't anything Trump said or did. Biden was just... off.

I'm sure he was prepared, because he did have most of the answers. He just delivered them poorly, particularly at the start.

[dlk]

5. CNN dropped the ball with zero fact checking

They didn't do their jobs and too many are jumping on the "blame Biden" bandwagon. CNN has declined to the point where it is unwatchable.

[Skittles]

7. I guess I don't understand why there was no fact checking

shouldn't that have been a requirement for participating in the debate? Trump is a compulsive liar.

[dlk]

8. What was CNN's true motivation hosting this debate?

The answer is crystal clear and it wasn't about enlightening, and educating American voters.

[brooklynite]

13. So you're saying the Biden campaign isn't as perceptive as you are?

They called the day of the debate. They agreed to the network and moderators. They didn't ask for "fact-checking" WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN A PART OF PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES.

[Skittles]

23. but why would Biden accept such terms?

it makes no sense to me

[MichMan]

10. Because that was the format that was agreed to

[LisaL]

11. Doesn't make any sense to me to agree to this format.

WTF was the logic behind it?

[womanofthehills]

28. CNN said it was up to the candidates

to fact check each other.

[Skittles]

32. that is fucking ridiculous when one is a COMPULSIVE LIAR

seriously, this was no "debate"

[Ms. Toad]

39. Fact checking is part of the process of debating.

Each party must not only be able to make their points, but to call their opponents out when they mistake or misuse facts. It is not, in any debate format in familiar with, the job l of the moderator.

[edisdead]

41. Being a network you are responsible for the content

Being a network you are responsible for the content going out on your broadcast.

Allowing lies to be spouted constantly should have some backlash. Even if only from the viewers. So I guess to me I am unsure why you are ok with lies being broadcast to millions of people over and over again. No e of us seem to like or watch Fox because of this but for some reason we are supposed to be ok with it in a debate?

[Ms. Toad]

43. It was Biden's job to call Trump on his lies.

That's how debates work.

It has nothing to do with whether I'm OK with lies being broadcast. When they agreed to debate on live TV, and Trump was a participant, broadcasting lies was a given. If that wasn't acceptable to Biden's team, they should have insisted on a different format.

[Evolve Dammit]

9. Well said Jill!

[MacKasey]

12. President Joe needs some elderberry syrup

Made from local elderberries

I go to local health food store and get a bottle made in next town over

That would strengthen our his throat!

[wendyb-NC]

15. I make elderberry elixer every Fall

I give it to my sons, who are grown and on their own, as holiday gifts. Great stuff, clears the respiratory tract. I use grain alcohol to steep tthe elderberries and herbs, to steep in for a few weeks, during the lunar cycle. It makes a potent cordial., or it can be diluted with hot water, and enjoyed like tea.

[orangecrush]

14. I'm actually starting to wonder

If there is more here than meets the eye.

[highplainsdem]

17. Possibly drugged, you mean? Something that would leave him weakened and confused for a while,

but wear off quickly?

[orangecrush]

34. Yes

[ElementaryPenguin]

38. EXACTLY!!!

I don't care if we sound as conspiratorial as the MAGAs - we're fools if we think they wouldn't resort to that - considering the tremendous stakes (and the MAGAs absolute absence of morals)!

[ClickClack]

19. I think too many here have "the eye" closed, or the head buried in the sand.

Perception counts, regardless of how much we wish it were not so.

- Yes, Narcissyphilis spouted a torrent of lies.
- Yes, CNN's moderators should have called him out on those lies,
and they deserve all the scorn they are getting for failing to do that.
- Yes, President Biden may very well have just had a bad night.
- Yes, perhaps he was briefly suffering from some malady that affected his energy,
his appearance, his voice, his facial expressions, his body language, his clarity of thought,
his ability to strategize..... and so on and so forth.

None of that changes the fact that his campaign asked for this early debate, prepared for a week, and we still had the presentation we witnessed. I am terrified that this debate and the impression President Biden made will hurt his chance and that Bronzed Blowhard Convicted Felon will get back in the White House. That CANNOT happen. I have tremendous respect for Biden and his career in government. However, I also am a realist and I can envision voters doubting his ability to serve effectively for another 4 years. I wish it were not so, but wishing will not change things.

[Prairie Gates]

26. There's less

[MartyTheGreek]

16. Did Somebody slip Joe a Mickey?

S.S. should go back source and look at all his meals and drinks!

We know magats were devastated by his SOTU address. Joe should just state what he's done over the past 4 years and point to Trump and say they are all lies. No time to address his lies, just go over and over his accomplishments and just say Trump is lying again.

He should not walk with his mouth open and he should get on a stepper and pump up those calf's and glutes 20 min a day. Maybe have an expresso before the next debate. Some B-12 for energy!

[RussBLib]

24. Would not surprise me

...nothing about Trump surprises me anymore. He is capable of anything, and one of his best buds is one Vladimir Putin, whose opponents just keep falling out of windows and getting poisoned.

https://russblib.blogspot.com/?m=1

[orangecrush]

35. Welcome to DU

And thanks for your concern.

[LiberalFighter]

18. I didn't feel well Friday after mowing the lawn with a rider.

I'm 70 and despite using a rider mower instead of a push mower I threw up several times.

I recovered in about thirty minutes.

[Raven123]

20. That is not reassuring.

[Prairie Gates]

25. This is a different story from "Biden was sick...had a cold"

Just to be clear. If he told Jill Friday night...

[texasfiddler]

27. 2016 again?

GOP will do anything for us to question our candidate. Not that they need to do anything. I love Democrats because we are fee thinkers. We don’t blindly follow our leader. There is a negative however. 2016

[Silent Type]

29. I'm sympathetic to something unanticipated, but I'd prefer to hear something besides a cold as explanation.

I assume Bidens and advisors know whether it was an aberration or something else. If they assess situation objectively, I’m in on plan. Of course, if they say “screw you” I’ll still vote for Biden.

[Wingus Dingus]

33. I assume he had a medical checkup then, post debate?

"Something wrong, not feeling great", leading to confusion, looking dazed and having difficulty communicating, would be a real concern for any President, especially in his 80's. They're not telling us something.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. I didnt feel well after I watched the debate

[Progressive dog]

46. Instead of helping keep that in the news

we have to understand the stakes here. TSF brought us a supreme court that rewrites the Constitution to protect Trump and offers him immunity now and for a second term.
I can't imagine what the psychopath would accomplish in a second term, and I don't think anyone who believes in human rights, equality, or even basic decency wants to find out.
We have only two options, Trump or Biden and pretending otherwise helps Trump.
I stand with Joe and his accomplishments, and his appointments, and his platform, and his vice President. I don't want to see this crap stay in the news and it won't. There are a hell of a lot more important things going on.