Since Biden is already our candidate, I wish to submit suggesting otherwise is dissing Democrats

[Baltimike]

This discussion thread was locked by EarlG (a host of the General Discussion forum).

You're either ridin' with Biden or you're rootin' for Putin.

Yep. Even now.

And the idea that the soft spoken truth is being touted as inferior to loud spoken lies is bullshit.

All of us are passionate about our nation and its direction. We need to understand that with AI and foreign interference, along with concern trolls and the like, it's only going to get worse.

We need to be succinct, and stop showing up to answer their narrative. We are NOT replacing Joe Biden. They are NOT replacing Trump.

Suggesting otherwise only distracts us from the work our descendants are counting on us to accomplish

Too big to rig, too real to steal. Ridin' with Biden or rootin' for Putin.

[msongs]

1. it's a discussion board. for discussing multiple possibilities. nt

[valleyrogue]

9. It is not for trashing Democrats

or peddling fake concern about whether Biden is "senile," which he clearly is not by any measure.

Biden is the nominee. Unless he has a real health issue, which as of now there is no evidence, anybody else being the standardbearer will drag Democrats down to defeat.

By the way, why aren't people talking about Seth Abramson's documenting of every single lie Trump told in last week's debate? That alone is disqualifying for him to be running for president.

[HandmaidsTaleUntold]

27. If You Have To Worry That Much

About what your fellow democrats are saying and trying to control that rather than other things then we’re already screwed. I prefer to not waste my energy doing that.

[padah513]

36. People are on here doing the Republican's work for them and our time to pull together is limited.

We only have two choices here. It's either democracy or autocracy. Nobody is trying to control what anyone says. People are trying to wake people up. Shake this crap off and get your head back in the game.

[W_HAMILTON]

39. This is a Democratic message board that supports Democrats.

There are countless websites you can choose to visit if you want to disparage our democratically chosen nominee.

Oh, and welcome to DU, or something along those lines.

[HandmaidsTaleUntold]

52. I Didn't Say Criticize

I said if you preempt people putting your energy in that direction then like with life in general you’re already losing. The question is the answer. It’s a misdirected waste of time. I believe this occurred in 2016 which should never have even been close. I’ve been reading DU for over 15 years without commenting btw. And honestly this website is all people who already agree mostly and I doubt many republicans or swing voters explore here much. This is a great place during an election year to actually debate strategy. I myself don’t like people who start flagging every comment that disagrees with them so I stay out of it personally. Moderates freaking out at progressives. Or pro Israel people attacking those questioning them is something I cannot stomach without frustration so I try to just read. I hate Trump and his ilk like I hated the Bush crime machine. But it’s not people like me having the nominee discussion. It’s people who actually work in politics on our side so whatever happens I assume it will be sorted out soon. I don’t think it’s practical to switch myself. But what’s happening makes my fearful for my life. I feel like I need guns now after never owning them. And where are our protectors? They don’t exist. MSNBC should be running Epstein Trump call revelations all day every day. Why arent they? All the swing voters are obsessed with Epstein. As well as age and inflation. But why not easily exploit this news story that shows Trump is an evil pedophile. The owner of CNN now is conservative. As well as NBC I assume. Maybe that is why.

[W_HAMILTON]

53. Sure sounds like there's a whole list of big issues you could be posting about...

...and yet you choose to post about abandoning our democratically elected nominee on a Democratic message board that wholeheartedly supports the Democratic Party.

Why don't you follow the same advice you are giving to media outlets and talk about those other important issues rather than amplifying their forced narrative about Biden's capabilities and their pressure campaign to get him to drop out?

[HandmaidsTaleUntold]

54. You Must Be Responding To Someone Else

I never even mentioned that. In fact I said it’s not practical even if Democrats age discussing it. What I said was directing energy worrying about what people are saying is the wage if time and my point was just proven. But hey let’s sit around online blaming each other rather than confronting the serious possibility that we will be rounded up if we get the wrong result. This is real

[relayerbob]

17. Take it to Twitter. We've got real work to do here

[yourout]

2. In my view it's his unless he decides he wants out or becomes medically incapacitated

There's a really no other good options.

[HandmaidsTaleUntold]

25. Even If Hes Incapacitated...

You cannot switch after the convention.

[Qutzupalotl]

34. Kamala would step in.

That's what VPs do.

[HandmaidsTaleUntold]

35. We Would Have To Still Vote For Joe

Even if he dropped off. Kamela can’t just step in. He has to win. Then she assumes the helm if he cannot. But ballot changes can’t be made.

[texasfiddler]

3. I agree!!! To Donald tRump's demise!!!!

[Frasier Balzov]

4. You're right about what amounts to threading a needle.

Supporting the presumptive nominee at this snapshot moment in time.

And admitting to the possibility that the nomination is in a state of flux.

Should we be cowed into acceptance that these are fatally inconsistent ways to win?

I like multiple ways to win. Maybe it's my version of liking war heroes who weren't captured.

[padah513]

37. There you go again.

[ecstatic]

5. yes, but in 2 weeks. Not now

We need to see the interview and have more data first.

[usonian]

6. AFAICT, Joe has the delegates. He's the nominee

and deserves full DU support.

Did Roosevelt quit?

Did America quit when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Here's to the detractors and trolls.



And about Joe: he's in line to be the greatest President in U.S. history, based on leadership, inspiration, dedication, integrity, accomplishments with a marginal and often hostile howler monkey congress, and the one who stopped fascism in its ugly tracks.

A post was deleted today that echoed some text from my earlier post. I suspect that an full AI troll attack is ongoing, concealed.

"We don't break the law, we bend it"

Go take a long walk on a short pier.

[ancianita]

8. Damn right and amen!

[Iggo]

11. You're on a roll.

[usonian]

14. I'm on a mission.

Chuckle

[orleans]

42. between your mission comment and the eat me cake...

well, it just lead me to this:

[usonian]

44. Old enough to remember the theme song?

Spoiler: Peter Gunn.
You see, we're musicians.

[orleans]

47. ...

&t=114s

[ancianita]

7. House Rep Jasmine Crockett made it clear -- it's time to knock off the wasted energy & naval gazing.

Now is the time breathe. Focus. Stick to the facts. We're 126 days out. We got this.

Thank you for your post.

[valleyrogue]

10. "You're either ridin' with Biden or you're rootin' for Putin."

This should be on a t-shirt or a bumper sticker.

[Gore1FL]

12. "Replace Biden becasue he is too old" is the Trump campaign's narrative.

We need to set the narrative, not follow theirs.

[HandmaidsTaleUntold]

29. I'm Not So Sure What Trump Fears

Maybe he fears Kamela more. Suddenly he’s the old dithering man. Either way not up to any of us. Joe will decide. Zogby talking about the backup plan right now.

[TheKentuckian]

13. Sorry but not sorry that my support is totally conditional

Gotta be able to to beat Shittler and if hypothetically he can't then how is ridin' not rootin'?

Right now I still think he has the best chance to pull it out for us but I'm not sure that assessment is sustainable and don't love the trends nor the intensity of the campaign in general.

I'll carry Biden on my back over broken glass if he can press the attack and win and I'll chuck him under the nearest oncoming bus if he can't especially if on top he is dragging down the rest of the ballot.

I'd say any other stance is appropriately batshit.

[W_HAMILTON]

41. Those same polls that have you fretting whether Biden can beat Shitler...

...are the same polls that show that Biden does better against him than all other Democrats aside from Michelle Obama.

If Biden is not our nominee, we will lose. The resulting in-fighting over who becomes the nominee and the calls for him to resign the presidency immediately will cause too much strife around our party and we will be punished at the ballot box for it.

Presumably you do not want to lose.

Ergo, you should want Biden to be our nominee.

[relayerbob]

15. I agree. This should be considered an alertable offense here on DU.

[dickthegrouch]

28. It is. /nt

[larwdem]

16. I agree 100%

[TheSocialDem]

18. Everyone in the forum I assume is voting (D) down this ticket.

It’s ridiculous that in light of the current circumstances (rational or not) you don’t think this should even be discussed in a forum full of people who ultimately want to just see democracy remains, democrats be elected, and keep a criminal traitorous grifter from the White House. Discussion on DU aren’t driving any MSM narratives

[mvd]

19. As long as the discussion is constructive and thoughtful, I agree

I don’t want to see RW talking points here. But there is discussion within the Party. I am personally ridin’ with Biden until I see something firm that tells me he can’t win. These unnamed sources from an already hostile mainstream media are not convincing.

[TheSocialDem]

20. I'm ridin with Biden

As long as he’s the nominee, I’m riding with any candidate opposite Trump.

If we don’t see signs of improvement soon, that the debate didn’t matter, we need to consider whatever would give us the best chance to win.

I’m getting a lot of “if you can’t see the difference between the two than we’re screwed anyway” type of takes. If that’s the case, we won’t lose any of the people that understand the stakes but could get votes of people who don’t but do think trump probably shouldnt be president again, who also just think Biden is too old or may have taken any of the GOP anti Biden bait over the last 5 years.

[mvd]

22. As long as he is our nominee, he is our only chance

So I agree. And I personally think he has done a great job. More progressive than any President in my lifetime. He deserves our support through this. Now if real concerns develop, I will support whatever the President decides to do.

[onecaliberal]

21. If you read the comments, even on this thread that is not the case.

[W_HAMILTON]

43. 207 posts in eight years of being here at DU and this is what you now decide you want to discuss?

Uh huh.

[MontanaMama]

23. With your okay

I would like to use “you’re either ridin’ with Biden or you’re rootin’ for Putin” in all of my social media. Please.🙏

[orleans]

45. i don't think the poster coined the phrase

i googled and found "ridin with biden vs rootin for putin" in march 2022 so i think variations have been around

[Grokenstein]

24. "Keef" Knight has the stupidest take I've seen yet.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/7/2/2250537/-Cartoon-Debate-Debacle

"Trump is (currently) relatively well-behaved because he knows Biden is the only candidate he could possibly beat. Any str8 white guy under 60 who isn't in the GOP could beat him"

(proceeds to recommend Roy Cooper because he "grew up on a farm!")

[orleans]

46. (proceeds to recommend Roy Cooper because he "grew up on a farm!")

maybe someone is expecting problems with farm animals that only a vet or someone who grew up on a farm would know how to handle

[Bluethroughu]

26. Yes!

Ride'n with Biden
Or
Root'n for Putin


Sign is going up on the 4th.

[LostOne4Ever]

30. Maybe, if not that, at the very least

Maybe open up the election forum for this discussion?

[OnDoutside]

31. Completely agree.

It's bizarre.

[awesomerwb1]

32. I'm with Biden

[pnwmom]

33. As long as you don't consider posting people like Heather Cox Richardson to be dissing the Democrats.

She's spoken at length about why he's the best choice but acknowledges that there is an ongoing argument. I find listening to people like her to be motivating.

[musicblind]

38. To quote the Democratic governor of Illinois

"This is an important conversation to have."


The reason it is important to discuss this topic here is because it is currently being discussed in a way that has grave, mainstream implications for the Democratic Party (whether we like it or not), and this forum is a place for Democrats to have important and nuanced conversations about things that profoundly affect the Democratic Party.


I have been a member of DU since 2007, and I remember when the "support the nominee" rule was first adopted. It was adopted for the purposes of curtailing the NON-mainstream (and frankly, meanspirited) attacks on the presumptive nominee at the time, Barack Obama, by a group of Hillary Clinton supporters who called themselves "PUMAS."

While I will personally support Joe Biden with all of my heart and soul for as long as he is our nominee, the "support the nominee" rule was not meant to silence uncomfortable discussions taking place within mainstream media to the point that party leaders like Nancy Pelosi and James Clyburn are having to go on nationally televised news programs to address it. It was meant to stop petty trolls who couldn't get past tumultuous primaries.

[In It to Win It]

40. I think we have to have the uncomfortable conversation if whether we believe our candidate can win

Last edited Wed Jul 3, 2024, 03:10 AM - Edit history (1)

I’m with you that Joe Biden is not being replaced. The only person that can make that call is Joe Biden. Until he does, we’re sticking with him.

However, I do think that if you have concerns about our candidate and his ability to win, it should be open for discussion. Maybe you want to discuss some concerning polls or if you believe our issues aren’t landing in the places they need to land, I think that’s a fair discussion to have.

[Doodley]

48. What is the catalyst that will put Joe ahead? Trump seems to be bulletproof.

[In It to Win It]

49. A guilty verdict from the cases that really matter

Or Trump having a heart attack

[musicblind]

51. He wasn't bulletproof in 2020 n/t

[EarlG]

50. This is a complicated and fluid situation, with a relatively simple solution

DU has, and always has had, a rule against "undermining" Democratic general election candidates. (See the "Don't bash Democratic public figures" rule.)

Joe Biden is currently the presumptive Democratic nominee, and was officially declared so by DU back in March.

Therefore anyone who is directly advocating for Biden to drop out of the race at this time is in clear violation of the "Don't bash..." rule, and Juries should act accordingly.

However, we currently find ourselves in a situation where the media is relentlessly pushing stories about (mostly unnamed) Democrats whispering behind the scenes about Biden dropping out.

Personally, I think this is completely nuts given the short window that remains until the election. But we are living through unprecedented times, and we do not know what is coming.

The decision to continue running lies with one person: Joe Biden. Currently he has shown no indication that he will drop out if the race. So as the nominee, he should be protected by our rules from calls for him to drop out.

However, given the highly fluid nature of the situation, there remains a possibility that he may choose otherwise. There have been plenty of posts discussing what should or could happen if that were the case, and provided that these posts stay within the realm of discussing a hypothetical -- as opposed to actually advocating for a replacement candidate -- then that is probably a discussion that can be had on DU.

Remember that the DU rules and Jury System were created with flexibility in mind, not rigidity. They allow the community to make different conclusions based on the current zeitgeist, not on bright red lines that enforce a never-changing dogma.

This situation is still evolving, and as such, the way Juries handle potential rule violations is also evolving.

So at this time, posts advocating for the replacement of our nominee should, I believe, be treated by Juries as clear violations of the "Don't bash..." rule. However, posts discussing a hypothetical situation, in which Biden chooses to drop out and Democrats have to figure out what to do next, currently fall into a grey area which Juries may or may not allow. As ever, "you take your chances" when having these discussions, as Skinner used to say.

[EarlG]

56. I'm locking this thread

This is DU's current position:

Advocating for removal of Biden, or discussing whether Democrats should force him out, is not permitted. Joe Biden is the Democratic nominee and is protected by DU's "Don't bash Democratic public figures" rule. Advocating for his removal is currently considered "undermining" our candidate in a general election. Juries should act accordingly to remove such posts.

Discussing a hypothetical situation in which Biden steps down and Democrats need to replace him is permitted, unless a Jury decides that the line has been crossed -- you take your chances. While Joe Biden has currently given no indication that he intends to step away from the race, it would be unrealistic to assume that there's absolutely no chance of that happening. Given the fluidity of the situation, it's not unreasonable for DUers to discuss what might happen in a scenario where Biden chooses to step down.

Note the difference between advocating for removal of Biden and discussing a hypothetical situation in which he himself chooses to step down (a situation which currently does not exist).

See my post above for a slightly longer explanation:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19095512