I read DU every day and I haven't noticed

[senseandsensibility]

people demanding that Joe Biden drop out. To be honest, I don't remember one OP demanding that, and I'm not sure I remember more than one or two comments in that vein either.

Of course I could have missed them. But I don't have anyone on ignore or any subjects blocked, so I don't think there could have been too many.

With respect, I think that some DUers are interpreting criticism of Biden as demands that he drop out. And criticism can be tough to deal with when many of us think that we will literally sink or swim together. Most of my political activism is in organized labor where unity is the eleventh commandment. So I get it.

Still, this is a difficult situation and I feel that reasonable criticism of the campaign, and especially criticism of the corporate media is also healthy and can be productive.

I have tried to keep my comments in this spirit and I hope that I haven't offended anyone.

[mahina]

1. There have been a flood of them and they have been handled by juries mostly. I'm not seeing them now.

[PortTack]

85. Yes there have!

[DFW]

2. I have noticed plenty of it, and I wasn't even looking hard.

Maybe we're looking in different places, and I'm on vacation 4000 miles from home, so I am not going to do an intensive search to paste them all. But Nance Greggs saw the same thing I did, and probably five times as many of them. It takes a lot for someone as dedicated as she is to quit because of it.

If you say you haven't seen such posts, I am not offended, but definitely surprised. I wasn't even looking for them, just saw then in casual perusal.

[senseandsensibility]

3. I alerted on a couple of comments early on

myself, but in the last three or four days I haven't even seen those.

[wnylib]

48. Same here.

[Ocelot II]

4. There have been many, but most were removed quickly.

[Irish_Dem]

5. We keep being told to fight and to fight hard.

Thanks for posting your comments Sense.
I have some thoughts to add.

Fighting comes in different forms.
Yes there is of course donating and canvassing, etc.
But there are other ways to contribute.

I see some very smart people here with good ideas, trying to help.
Trying to give some ideas about how to run a better campaign.
Or asking some questions, trying to sort out the crisis at hand.

Feedback from the grass roots of the party is valuable.
They have been the backbone of the Democratic Party for many years.

And yet they are given a lot of pushback.

Fighting isn't just happy talk and pretend.
Fighting doesn't mean cussing out and insulting members of your own team.
It means facing reality and solving problems too.
And it means valuing members of the team.
The team that can win this election.

[senseandsensibility]

9. Yes!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[yardwork]

76. Well said.

[Frasier Balzov]

6. It was happening robustly until the governors met with Biden.

When they announced that they had Joe's back, the demands subsided or have been suppressed.

I expect that the cycle could repeat-- a barometer reading from DU posts followed by strict adherence to party line.

Seems like a properly managed use of this resource.

[wnylib]

49. Yes, it happened often and EarlG addressed it in a couple differrnt posts.

[Think. Again.]

52. Ha! Yeah. Remember all the posts about how Governors are "concerned"...

...about Biden staying on the ticket?

Good times.

[slightlv]

66. Watch and catch the propaganda

you can even make a game of it. Someone on DU likened it to a centipede... I agree. It comes from one place, and then is generated exponentially from there. No one puts their name to the propaganda, that's not how it resonates with people. Conspiracies resonate. The idea that Biden should step down is the latest in the conspiracies. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work it out.

Here's one I could make up right now... last debate, T tried mightily to infect Biden with Covid. If I remember right, he actually did sicken and possibly kill some on his debate team. He wanted to kill Biden with Covid. How do we know he didn't do something this debate? Slip some type of drug into something Biden would drink? With T's all-consuming "drug" talk before the debate, how hard is it to believe he drugged Biden? I mean, always with Republicans, if they're accusing us of something it's because they've already done it.

See... the conspiracies and propaganda accompanying them are really easy to create. And Republicans are masters at it.

[Biophilic]

7. Interesting that you didn't see any of them. I felt like we were being stampeded with them.

Yes, very few actually said 'Biden should drop out', but the basic argument was that it would be better if he did for various reasons from age, to debate, to not being clear about his intentions, etc. Usually they just claimed to be starting a discussion, but the intention to disrupt was obvious. Joe Biden is our candidate. Any discussion, at this point, undermining that position is detrimental to Biden, other Democrats, and our Democracy.

Sorry if I'm coming across a little strong. I'm still ticked off about the days and days of these "discussions". They were demoralizing and upsetting. Not something I expect on DU.

[livetohike]

17. Same here. I just commented below. This is new.

It’s a shame that supporting our presumptive Presidential nominee is a question now. All of the “who would you want to see run” threads are tiresome.

[LakeArenal]

29. Coached as: a reality we need to consider.

Barf. 🤮

[Biophilic]

31. Exactly. Personally I think they very well knew what they were doing to undermine DU, and Biden.

[LakeArenal]

32. Perhaps they are:

Which we called Damit Dolls.

[c-rational]

46. Well said and agreed.

[Joinfortmill]

8. Folks seem much more rude.

[bigtree]

12. I think we should just be as polite as possible when people suggest trashing our votes

...by edging Joe Biden out because of one debate performance.

We should say, "thank you, and what else can I do to destroy our party and the country?"

Respectfully.

[Joinfortmill]

54. See what I mean? I didn't deserve that.

Hate to leave, but civility has vanished. We're getting just like the folks we criticize.

[bigtree]

58. why did you take that personally?

Last edited Thu Jul 4, 2024, 07:02 PM - Edit history (1)

I wasn't talking about you.

You made an obtuse remark and I spoke my mind about where I think the 'rudeness is coming from.

Did you read what I wrote? Do you have anything in you to understand the frustration of coming here and being challenged for each and every advocacy, ostensibly by Democrats?

That's what I'm getting at. Anyone having to deal with that should be excused for being 'rude.' People have spent 4 days trying to trash my vote by trashing the person I voted for.

[oldsoftie]

63. I've said that a few times.

You can get a totally factual post hidden simply because the fact isnt a popular one. I'm not referring to THIS topic; just in general. its happened to me & others. You can appeal but never get a response
Yes, it can become an echo chamber just like those we rightfully criticize run in. But there's probably a million members here & there will be OPs you never see. Just over the past hour I've seen probably 15 new OPs only because I've been on the computer. So if you just go to work for 8hrs you'll probably miss 200!!

[usedtobedemgurl]

22. They are not just starting to be rude now.

At one point someone made a counterpoint to something I said. I explained I could not argue because my brain injury has me unable to do so. The person basically commented back that this is a discussion board, and if I cannot discus, I should not be here! I could discus, it is my logical, arguing skills that now have me at a disadvantage. I expect better from this board. That was about a year and a half ago. (Maybe longer, but my memory was affected along with many other things with my brain injury. Things even taste different to me now.)

[paleotn]

39. Since when has political debate been anything but?

If you want civility, may I suggest the Sisters of the Blessed Mary the Meek. If politics is your interest, well, that's rough and tumble. Always has been.

[Joinfortmill]

56. I'll let that speak for itself.

[paleotn]

73. Like Sherman said, war cannot be reformed.

Neither can politics.

[Elessar Zappa]

10. It's mostly new posters who are doing it.

Some of the comments have started being deleted.

[Biophilic]

33. Yes, and no. Two people who attacked me pretty vigorously were long time DU members.

And actually used that to attempt to silence me when I asked why he was so intent on pushing the possibilities of Joe stepping out.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

42. That or those who registered long time ago but very rarely post

Seems some drop by now and then to stir things up.

[BigmanPigman]

47. I noticed that, too.

I decided to ignore all of them since they are DINOs in my opinion. To even suggest Biden drop out tells me that the DU post is someone who is trying to piss me off and I am already too pissed off to hear this shit from DUers.

I never "alert" anyone but I have served on a zillion DU Juries this week. Stirring the pot on DU is a bad idea and it shows your true colors.

[CrispyQ]

11. I've been so depressed about the news I took to cleaning out my garage

& I can now walk around both cars & have a huge pile of junk to get rid of.

I don't want Biden to withdraw but he better put his fighting gloves on. We need SOTU Biden, not what we saw last week. I think he should consider some new advisors, like Pete Buttigieg.

[senseandsensibility]

13. I know where you're coming from

I actually did a deep house cleaning yesterday, and if this continues I might be forced to do my own garage! Probably not though. Cleaning indoors with the A/C on is much more enjoyable than the garage when it's 102 degrees outside.

[magicarpet]

25. Come over and clean my garage,... there is a slight pleasant breeze coming from the north,...

I'm all stocked up with Poland Springs water in the fridge.

What time can I expect you,... be sure to wear your grubbies.



This is such a nice jesture you would offer to do this. My garage has not been cleaned in awhile.

[senseandsensibility]

28. Is this what they call gaslighting?

Sorry, it's not working.

[yardwork]

79. I cleaned house yesterday too!

Too funny!

[Ocelot II]

16. Yes. I did more than the usual amount of housework and gardening this week.

Had to get away from the news and the Internet and think about other things.

[livetohike]

14. I've been here 20 years now and never put anyone

on Ignore until this past week. I’ve never seen anything like it with some posters posting every negative article/tweet they can find as if that would convince us not to support President Biden either.

[yardwork]

81. Were you around in 2016?

It was far, far worse. DUers posted vile things about our nominee and juries let them stand.

This is nothing. It's an understandable expression of strong emotions during a challenging time.

[livetohike]

82. Yes. I was here and you're right. It was pretty bad, but

this feels different and worse. I think it’s because Pres. Biden is the incumbent and the discussions to replace him after one debate are disgusting to me.

[Kaleva]

15. Here is one example

"I have also explained WHY I want Joe Biden to step aside. It has NOTHING, whatsoever, to do with disrespect. I respect the man immensely, I admire him immensely. But after the debate performance, where his biggest task was to convince the American public that his age won't prevent him from doing a stellar job,"

The above was written by someone who has been a member since 2017 and has several thousand posts under his belt

[ProfessorGAC]

20. Was That An OP?

Or was it a post within someone else's OP?

[Kaleva]

35. It was a post in someone else's OP

[ProfessorGAC]

37. Thanks

Because the original post in this thread refers to OPs.
Naturally, there are going to be more examples of individual posts expressing that view, then OPs.
I tend to agree with this OP, that few threads were started with the "replace Joe" message. Most of those were impeded in other threads not started to express that view.
You example is a long-timer, but I can tell you MIRT has been busy with newly joined posters.

[Kaleva]

38. I saw one OP stating Biden should quit

The OP was quickly zapped. I didn't recognize the name and didn't have time to check if OP was a long timer or a newbie.

[Kaleva]

40. OPs that are locked can still be found

But OPs that are hidden are gone for good along with the corresponding thread.

I do know I saw one OP demanding, wanting, desiring Biden to drop out but I have no way to prove it as it was hidden. And I have no way to prove it was hidden as the entire thread is gone.

[Fiendish Thingy]

21. That doesn't read like a "demand" to me. Nt

[Kaleva]

36. Nobody here can demand anything

All they can do is express a want

[senseandsensibility]

23. I did see some newbie posts early on that

I alerted on and they were removed. Other than that, no. I don't log on during the night or in the morning usually though, and the morning seems to be a very "happening" time here. That is, morning by east coast time.

[oldsoftie]

64. Was it removed?

[onandup]

77. Saying Biden should stop down is a rules violation

EarlG clarified this. Alert them if you like.

[yardwork]

84. I don't see anything wrong with that post.

Also, I disagree with calling out another DUer like this.

That post may be against DU rules, in which case it can be alerted or sent to EarlG. Otherwise, I think it's fine. This is an opinion site.

I have a lot of respect for you, Kaleva. I just disagree with you on this. However, I know that you and I both will support President Biden and every other Democrat, up and down the ticket.

[brush]

18. There were quite a few. They got alerted on. Didn't have the good sense to call for orange, turd rapist to step down too

Like come on, the bloviating POS, in their minds, should stay in the race, but Joe has to go?

No fucking way.

[ClickClack]

59. And just what would posts here calling for BLOTUS to step down accomplish?

We can all scream at the sky just as much as we want to, and what effect will that have? We're just venting here, with an audience of like-minded voters.

I'd like the wannabe dictator to step down. Heck, I'd much prefer that he suddenly suffer a heart attack or a debilitating stroke or aneurysm. In fact, I'm wishing for that right now, realllllly hard.

Was it effective?

Yeah, didn't think so.

[brush]

61. Who's talking about what it accomplishes. It just letting people know where you stand...

on the piece of shit.

[ClickClack]

65. Right, okay, because where we stand on the convicted felon is IN DOUBT SOMEHOW?

I must have missed the posts here praising the treasonous wannabe dictator. I thought everyone on DU would share my contempt, disgust, fear, and hatred for The Lyin' King, but perhaps everyone here has to "let people know where you stand" because that might be in doubt.

[brush]

70. What are you getting at? Cable news and even DU was filled with guests and posters....

the hours and days after debate blasting Joe Biden and calling for him to step down because they didn't think he was capable after watching the debate. Most said nothing about the lying, orange piece of shit stepping down too.

You assume too much. I on the other hand, want to know just where people stand. Some are trolls and Russian bots flooding the air waves and social media hoping to influence some voters to stay home or to vote for the orange turd.

I didn't think that would have to be said on DU.

[Fiendish Thingy]

19. I have seen no posts demanding he drop out

But tons discussing whether he should, and the ramifications of staying in the race vs dropping out.

[senseandsensibility]

24. Discussing what would happen if he drops out is very different

than saying he should. In fact, it could very well be an argument against it.

[soldierant]

57. It certainly should be an argument against it.

Jasmine Crockett gave as one example.



(That's a screenshot, not an embed or link. Apologies to those on Xitter but I'm not.

I've been pointing out that no ticket where one of its members was replaced has ever won.

[Ocelot II]

26. There were demands; I saw some. They just didn't last long.

The one I remember in particular came from someone who posted it for their first post only minutes after the debate was over.

[wryter2000]

27. There were some

They've mostly died down.

I think most of us are just irate at the hatchet job going on in the media now. Those fools have energized the base, to borrow a Republican phrase.

[senseandsensibility]

34. Since 90% of my OPs are media criticism

I agree wholeheartedly with you. They are the major players in this story. Instead of fulfilling their sacred obligation under our constitution, they are doing their corporate owners' bidding in far too many cases.

[Sibelius Fan]

30. There's a time to criticize a D president. It's not when we're 4 months out from an election.

[Think. Again.]

55. 🏆

[GenThePerservering]

43. I got tired of seeing them

but there's a lot of thread replication here (people don't search before posting?) and I figured once all the alarm died down the threads would die down, too.

[flying_wahini]

44. I read dozens.

[TheProle]

45. I stand with Pelosi

"I think it's a legitimate question to say, is this an episode, or is this a condition? And so when people ask that question, it's completely legitimate — of both candidates.”

[ArkansasDemocrat1]

50. They're letting the 'Biden must drop out' diaries run rampant at a long-term progressive blog I hang out at

I stopped visiting there until the FUD is done, too many "progressives" are recommending them to keep them trending. I'd rather subscribe here instead of there.

[GreenWave]

51. Some posters are abandoning ship! What for? There is an orange shark out there.

[JoseBalow]

53. "We see things as we are, not as they are." - Leo Rosten

[Warpy]

60. There wee a handful at first

but mosst of them slunk off pretty quickly when DU roared back.

[senseandsensibility]

71. That's how I remember it too

I did alert on a couple myself at the beginning.

[Warpy]

74. I didn't bother to alert

but let them know they were making arses of themselves and waited for others to do the same, which they did.

I don't alert on much, I remember when DU had a problem with alert trolls trying (and sometimes succeeding) to get good DUers kicked off. We lost quite a few good people to them.

It has to be pretty outrageous for me to alert on. If it's a pissing contest, I've alerted on both combatants. These days, I don't trust my eyesight all that well so I just alert on spam.

[H2O Man]

62. Recommended.

I am among those that want President Biden to stay in the race. I do understand some of mt family & friends who were concerned by the debate. That includes on this forum. I have not seen a single example of anyone saying that they won't vote for him in November. Not a single one.

I have, however, seen people -- including a number of DUers I have long respected -- posting nasty shit that is 100% untrue at good people who have expressed sincere concerns. I've asked a few times if they could identify a single example? None can, because that only exists between their ears.

This is part of the unconscious negative force, dividing people at all levels in this country. We see it everywhere these days, and it is in no way exclusive thinking/ behavior of the maga cult. We see it in the public reaction to the Karen Read trial in MA, where crowds argue, and people on both sides are getting death threats.

And we see the same dynamic here. Sadly, it is a one-sided example of mindless nonsense.

[senseandsensibility]

68. Thank you for your thoughtful response

I also want Biden to stay in, but I have to admit that I want him and his team to go on offense more. Is that a misguided attitude? It could be in some ways, but that's what discussions are for.

[H2O Man]

69. I agree.

I think that we will see the President on the attack much more, between now and the election. I also hope that Barack Obama foes so publicly. I think that would be even more upsetting for the felon that Biden attacking him.

[yardwork]

83. Good post.

I understand why people are worried, stressed, upset, angry. There's a lot at stake. To put it mildly.

If we find ourselves lashing out or being overly dramatic, it's time to take a break and tend to ourselves.

In my opinion, DU is not deeply divided right now. I've seen it much worse. In fact, in many ways I think we're more united now than we've been for the past six months or so.

[H2O Man]

86. Thanks!

I agree with you that the DU community is united, which is distinct from some times in the past. And that's a good thing. However, in the past couple of days, a number of people have become increasingly insulting towards those who simply have expressed concerns about President Biden.

Now, I was concerned about him during the debate at first. Anyone who wasn't must have been watching something else, because the president was struggling. After a bit, though, I thought he had recovered. Still not his best, but he landed some solid blows. More, I did not think the felon would have picked up any support among independents. And no one who had supported Biden changed to support the felon.

We've had some time since then. There are still some discussions on the general topic here, and it is important to recognize that the majority of these are OPs by the segment who didn't think Biden should consider stepping aside, many of whom pretend he did very well in the debate. And these OPs/posts are increasingly vile, with foolish name-calling such as "bed-wetters." That was among the insults in an OP by a person I like and respect ..... but I don't like or respect that at all. Other posts are approaching the level of paranoid thinking required to believe in those darned Jewish space lasers, with Russians and the media conspiring.

We don't need that. There is no benefit to the Biden campaign, nor to meaningful discussions on DU.

[yardwork]

87. I'm seeing an authoritarian tone in some posts.

Telling people to STFU and get back in line seems.... out of place on a Democratic message board. We're Democrats, we bicker. We don't get in line - that's what Republicans do. It can be a weakness in our part, but there's no need to yell at people or shame them because they expressed an opinion about Democratic politics on Democratic Underground.

If I've ever done that - I'm sure I have - I apologize right here. To everyone.

I still think people are understandably upset so I don't hold it against them. We'll get through this.

[H2O Man]

88. Right.

I see some herd mentality, something I think should be avoided.

[demmiblue]

67. +1

I find that some people make mountains out of molehills quite frequently.

[Emile]

72. Some post news stories that put President Biden in a bad way.

[yardwork]

75. I see the same.

There's a lot of noise and concern, understandably. Tempers are a little frayed. The only anti-Biden posts have seen were from trolls, quickly dispatched by MIRT.

I think a number of us are open to various options and keeping a close eye on how things unfold over the next few weeks. For the record, Biden is my favorite president of my lifetime. I really love the guy. He's doing an awesome job. I'm with him as long as he stays in, and if he hands off the baton, I'm with our candidate.

I'm not that worried, to be honest. I think that we're going to be fine. One aspect of the debate that seems to be emerging is that nobody liked Trump's performance. I have not seen one poll or opinion piece that suggests that anybody liked what they saw of Trump.

[senseandsensibility]

78. Good points

and I also read somewhere that although Biden may have lost a bit in some polls, cheato isn't gaining. That's important. We can still win them back with a good offense.

[yardwork]

80. Anecdotally, it appears that many were appalled by Trump.

People who hadn't been paying a lot of attention to him really disliked what they saw and heard. Trump came across as a mean, bitter, thin skinned crazy old man.

He bragged about overturning Roe v Wade! That alone is a campaign ad for Biden.