Reality Check - the angst about President Biden isn't just by the media and the misled...

[brooklynite]

My candidate funding circle (which is significant enough to get Nancy Pelosi and Hakeem Jeffries to moderate our campaign events) has been talking for days about the Biden situation and a growing number of members -- highly informed and politically engaged -- are saying Biden should step aside. Yelling that they're "bed-wetters" or "spineless weaklings" isn't going to address the problem.

[wryter2000]

1. It's a formula for disaster

Trying to insert someone else now will not work, no matter how sweetly motivated your friends are.

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

6. I am so tired of this take.

You do know up until 50 years ago, no one knew the party candidate until after the conventions. This presumptive nominee stuff has taken away from what a Party Nominating Convention is supposed to be.

[shrike3]

10. They are already sharpening their knives for whomever would take Joe's place.

The knives are already out for Kamala.

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

15. I don't think it should be her either.

Now is not the time to give it to who is the most “deserving” I think VP Harris would make an excellent president, but I don’t think she could win in 2024 with today’s dumb ignorant electorate (this isn’t 2008 and people have gotten more racist and dumber). I think the Democrats need a dark horse candidate who the republicans can’t dirty up in only 3 months. My choice would be Josh Shapiro, Roy Cooper, Andy Beshear, or Mark Kelly.

[shrike3]

24. Don't you get it? They'll go after Shapiro, Cooper, Beshear, anybody.

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

29. Yes, i understand that

That’s politics and will happen regardless of who the nominee is. But I just don’t think they can do much damage to them in 3 months.

[shrike3]

34. Snort! Really? You think there aren't operatives ready for that?

Then there's the fact that the average person doesn't even KNOW who these guys are.

[BannonsLiver]

42. When was the last time they didn't "go after" one of our nominees?

I’m drawing a blank at the moment but perhaps your recall is better.

[shrike3]

53. I take it you haven't noticed that there's been wall to wall coverage regarding our current nominee?

You think there won't be similar wall-to-wall coverage about ANYONE we put up?

[BannonsLiver]

82. Ive watched plenty of it.

Now, back to it, when was the last time the Republicans and GOP leaning media didn’t “go after” one of our nominees?

[JustAnotherGen]

107. Thank you

Its like we don't know how to be winners. And you are 100% correct.

[shrike3]

140. Thanks for the support.

[shrike3]

138. Uh -- when was the last time they piled on like raptors?

I know. Hillary. What happened then?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

125. You cannot have an unknown person run for President.

Plus there would be a huge backlash if they don’t have Kamala and put a white man on the ticket.

[shrike3]

139. Plus, the money raised for Joe's campaign can only go to Kamala.

They have us in a corner. It'll have to be Kamala, and it will be brutal.

[Big Blue Marble]

188. Let's face it; it is going to be brutal.

They smell victory. There is blood in the water as the Democratic Party fractures.
The sharks are circulating.

We have to have a consensus fast and come together behind our candidate, who
ever it is because the onslaught is coming.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

268. Our candidate is President Joe Biden.

[travelingthrulife]

225. why are you giving credence to the smear campaign against Biden?

100% media generated and yet Democrats fall for it every time.

[shrike3]

231. I'm not. I'm just attempting to explain to someone else that if Joe did drop out, it would have to go to Kamala.

I know it's media generated.

[MistakenLamb]

173. If this party thinks black women will save its ass after being side stepped it will be a deserved reckoning of the ages

[58Sunliner]

222. Black women should be voting to save themselves.

Turning this into a grudge match because realizing Harris probably won't win given this environment, isn't being stepped on. I'd like it to be a gay person. Ain't gonna happen. Doesn't mean I will not vote because that would be suicide.

[whathehell]

292. No ONE demographic will "save the ass"

of OUR party..

All asses 'saved' will be our own.

[BComplex]

124. I'm with you, shrike3. We will LOSE this election if they take Biden/Harris off the ticket.

The swing and undecided voters, as well as the republicans against trump, WILL NOT come out to vote like they will if we stay stable and on track.

[BootinUp]

36. The Biden Harris ticket is a proven commodity. Argue against that if you will.

I think you are cooking up a turnout disaster.

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

51. Lol

Turnout will be a disaster with them on the ticket. And just like the OP, I know this based on my inner circle. My family and friends just aren’t enthused with this ticket. Yes, they will vote for Biden, just like I will, but they aren’t going to do the work that we usually do during election time (i.e voter registration drives, knocking on doors, putting signs in the yard, working the local Democratic HQ building, etc.). They and myself included feel like those things are just a waste of time when we know the outcome. Why work ourselves to death for nothing. Might as well try something new.

[BootinUp]

54. I think you make my point actually. nt

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

62. No I don't

I think people (Democrats, Independents, and some Republicans) would be enthused with a fresh candidate and actually start paying attention. No one wanted a rematch and are tuned out. Thats why the debate tv ratings were so low compared to other debates.

[BootinUp]

64. You can't build a winning ticket on a whim. nt

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

74. Who says you can't

That’s our problem. We are stuck on how politics have worked over the last 50 years. we need to change our approach.

[BootinUp]

86. There is a way to change the system. Its not the "Only I can fix it method." nt

[shrike3]

141. Let's wave a magic wand. That'll work.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

186. On a "whim" is probably less likely than on a "plan". nt

[MistakenLamb]

197. You don't run away from the Presidents record that's why losing the incumbency argument is so damn foolish

Please tell me how you sell a vision and plan for America on a new candidate 120 days. Early voting begins even sooner in 75 days with Minnesota on September 20. Please indulge what is candidate X's plan and vision and accomplishments to build and run off

[kerry-is-my-prez]

306. Obama was sort of a whim....

[BootinUp]

312. Is that a joke?

[shrike3]

60. Then they don't give a damn about democracy, I guess.

Thanks for letting us know. Nice of you.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

118. No shit.

Sort of funny how some think their family and friends and "inner circle" being less enthused about our Democratic president is gonna decide a national election.

[Big Blue Marble]

189. There are a whole lot of families that feel exactly that way.

I do not see any enthusiasm in the Dems I know. Yes they are voting, but with little energy
for the cause or the candidate. They only want to stop Trump.

Tell us about the Fired Up and Ready to Go constituency. I am just not seeing it.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

264. How much "energy" do they need to vote for Democracy? How would you recognize it?

Everybody seems to have their own pet groups of Democrats or "Republicans" they feel qualified and compelled to speak for.

And everybody in these pet groups all feel the same negative way!

And none of these correspondents of doom enlightens us as to how they respond to their pet group-think. Do the doomers just sit there and agree with whatever the group says? Nothing about Democratic accomplishments? Covid, jobs, infrastructure, student loans, etc., etc. Nothing but "Joe's old" and had a bad fucking night.

Then bring that gloom and doom here to crap all over dedicated Democrats, WTAF?

I cannot believe the hysterical angst over an obviously rat fucked "debate." That convicted felon rapist traitor lied throughout the whole ugly mess, but... but...but...Biden.... GMAFB.


The Fired Up and Ready to Go constituency is all around you! Open your eyes! Why not join us?

[Big Blue Marble]

299. Do you have polling data to support your claims of enthusiasm all around you?

Most young people are at high risk of turning off completely and not voting for old people
who are not part of their future.

We hope to get them to vote to stop the destructive and dangerous forces amassing on the right.
But that is not the same as voting for one you believe in.

Many of us are voting in fear and desperation not in hope and change. We are voting for ticket,
period. The question is will the youth and the center join us. I pray that they do.

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

192. Yep I sure do

Because if people like them arent as enthused as they usually are, then I know others like thrm are not. You laugh you want but will be crying in November. Especially making fun of Democractic voters.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

267. "Aren't as enthused as they usually are."

Who are they enthused for if not Biden/Harris? Who were they enthused for, usually?

"Others like them are not enthused." Oh well if you say so.

Maybe you could help your unenthused friends feel enthused about an incumbent Democratic president who is the only safeguard between us and that putrid, rancid, disgusting rapist traitor pathological liar and his boys' club rat fucking buddies.

[Quiet Em]

87. I think you are underestimating the enthusiasm

that the VP brings to the ticket alone. Especially among women and Independents. And President Biden is a known, respected commodity, Trump is despised.

There is way too much at stake in this election. People understand this.

[JustAnotherGen]

109. Black.women in particular

Who are the core base.

[JustAnotherGen]

104. I will not vote

For anyone other than Biden or Harris.

It's that simple. JAG has a home in Italy, Dual Citizenship husband, and my field is global trade.

I can survive and will do everything I can to help other black women and their families a way out of America.

I'm not saving America this election. Ask the white women to do it.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

129. So you don't care if Trump gets in. Then you'll move?

Thanks - that is really effed up. This is a repeat if 2016.

[JustAnotherGen]

146. Nope - its not

I voted for Biden in the Primary, he has the delegates, since early 2020 via a series of methods we've given over 30K to his campaign.

If he's replaced with some basic white male -

You need to look at your base.

We NEVER get anything in return for our loyalty, our grand and great grandmas survived Jim Crow -

We are prepared. And Clinton lost because white women keep voting Republican.

A lot of those white female Trumpers are okay with the black maternal death rate.

So its a big middle finger raised to them. Wait until they are forcibly made to breed - its on them. They did this . . .

Not me

[shrike3]

148. You're right.

[oldmanlynn]

241. Your return if dems win is continued support of African American people and communities

If trump wins you may lose that support for decades and find yourself in a worse position.

Is that what you want? All because you wNt your way and not the way that is best for all people in a democracy.

[JustAnotherGen]

302. No - i want the way

Of the People in the 3rd Precinct of my Borough and Hunterdon NJ.

I'm also the base. Your magical candidate - what's in it for me?

Because you are handing the keys over to that worthless subhuman thing - #45.

What are your bona fides? How many candidates have you campaign managed at the local level. What is your largest donation to the Biden campaign? Were you on Tammy Murphy's debate prep call? Ever been to.Drumthwacket? Get a congratulatory note from Josh Gottheimer (hand written) for winning your election.

Why do you want America to fail?

Hey - y'all keep.thanking us for saving America.

Well - I have political capital - and I can use it.

[spooky3]

252. White women voted for Clinton per the Pew verified voting study. Nt

[JustAnotherGen]

255. It was 45/Clinton 47/Trump

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/

Black women 98/Clinton and */Trump. IE negligible.

Too many of them are white supremacists even though they will get all up in arms if you point it out.

They vote Christianity but don't believe in the Gospels.

Again - There is a white women voting problem. 47% of them hate.

[spooky3]

256. There is a MALE voting problem. Stop blaming it on women as

A group. Men, particularly men without college degrees, are far more likely to vote Republican than any other demographic group.

[JustAnotherGen]

261. I'm a black woman

And until they stand up for me consistently - I'm calling them out. They benefit from their white male racism and sexism. The 47% Handmaids have earned my accusation.


White women’s role in white supremacy, explained
https://www.vox.com/2021/1/15/22231079/capitol-riot-women-qanon-white-supremacy

White women have been part of white supremacy in America since the very beginning, experts point out, dating back to their role in slavery. “They were at the table when the system was designed,” Stephanie Jones-Rogers, a history professor at UC Berkeley and author of the book They Were Her Property: White Women as Slave Owners in the American South, told Vox. “They were co-architects of the system

White women’s investment in white supremacy is older than the United States itself and goes back to their role in the economy of slavery. Though white women have been seen by some historians as passive bystanders to the brutalities of slavery, they were in fact active participants, as Jones-Rogers explains in They Were Her Property. Before the Civil War, white women had little economic or political power, with one big exception: They could buy and sell enslaved people. And they did so, using enslaved people as a way of building up wealth that would not simply be transferred to a husband in marriage.

There is zero difference between Martha Washington and the average White Christian Dominionist wannabe Trad Wives.

White women had doubts. They voted for Trump anyway.
They said they didn’t like the president’s rhetoric, his handling of the pandemic. But in the end, they came home.

https://19thnews.org/2020/11/white-women-had-doubts-they-voted-for-trump-anyway/

Among White women, according to NBC News, 43 percent supported Biden and 55 percent supported Trump. About 91 percent of Black women supported the former vice president and 8 percent supported Trump. Roughly 70 percent of Latina women supported Biden and 28 percent supported the outgoing president.

There was little meaningful change from 2016, when the same exit poll showed that 43 percent of White women supported Clinton and 52 percent supported Trump; 94 percent of Black women supported Clinton and 4 percent supported Trump; and 69 percent of Latinas supported Clinton and 25 percent supported Trump

.

Only 43% supported Biden in 2020.

So why do so many punch themselves? When I see numbers like Latinas put up for Democrats - I'll lay off.

Until then? Nope.

[JustAnotherGen]

262. Regarding White Men without College Degrees

We will never get them - and we haven't had them since 1964.

They will choose their belief that the color of their skin justifies their chip on their shoulder. They *in their minds* believe that America is for them and them alone.

[spooky3]

265. That doesn't mean they should be given a pass on

Their voting habits. When posts place blame on a certain demographic group for election outcomes, they need to be correct about the facts.

[JustAnotherGen]

275. I have the facts

You directed me to the 2016 data, and I've directed you to the 2020 data.

We are evens stevens.

The 2020 BLM movement in tandem with the 2019 Project and the harsh resistance to both highlighted how deeply entrenched the For Now Dominant Culture's commitment was to White Supremacy.

Now - I'm married to a white man. My mother was a white woman.

My husband - a new American since November 2020 is a die hard Democratic Party Member.

My mom - voted Democratic her entire life.

My husband is a blacksmith, juried artist, UNESCO Certified metal restoration specialist, who sold HVAC, Plumbing , and Masonry businesses 8 years ago, and turned his Iron Works into an employee owned co-op.

He never wanted their stupid stinking coal miner job, and doesn't resent successful minorities. He doesn't have learned white supremacy which permeates ever belief of the majority of non-skilled labor white men in America.

So yeah - I'm giving up on them. They cannot be reached. They want to be poor and miserable. It makes them feel better about the setup lick Trump's Taint.

Their Cultural Conditioning is what they are.

And regards to black women in particular -

Stop thanking us for "saving Democracy" and at the same time ask us to not tell the truth.

The 1619 Project is the New American bible.

[shrike3]

147. I'll vote. But I'll be voting in vain if we give the pundits what they want.

The only that will happen is they will want more. Lots more.

[JustAnotherGen]

164. Yep

And as a practicality - we would have to spend a lot of unnecessary money for an unknown name.

This will take away from.County, State, House and Senate Spending.

We need to stay the course.

[shrike3]

168. It's my understanding that only Harris would be able to access money raised for Biden-Harris.

[JustAnotherGen]

212. Exactly

And the media would go on this big brouhaha about *Campaign Finance Violations* and "both sides" if the DNC made even the slightest LEGAL move to transfer it.

[sheshe2]

179. I am sticking with the one that brought me.

Last edited Sun Jul 7, 2024, 01:42 AM - Edit history (1)

Darlin' save the last dance for me.

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

193. If Biden stays on the ticket I will voting in vain

[The Magistrate]

214. So Do It Anyway

Chin up, eyes front, and step out to the fucking drum.

[shrike3]

234. Lots of people buying into the narrative.

[shrike3]

233. If Biden's off the ballot, the Heritage Foundation has vowed to sue to keep him on it in the swing states.

It's a trap, and we're walking right into it. You do you, though.

[Pisces]

152. Then you are a waste of time who doesn't believe democracy is on the line.

[JustAnotherGen]

154. I would eat three gallons of water

With a fork before I would give a damn about the opinion of me from someone who doesn't have my bona fides. Donor, Democratic Committee Member, Elected Official and alternative delegate.

I will not stab my Precinct, County, or State Democratic Party members in the back. Joe is the winner of the Democratic Primary in my Borough and County. They voted for him. That's that.

[Quiet Em]

159. alienating Black women is not a winning strategy

when Democracy is on the line. Black women are the most active and reliable base of our party. It would harm Democrats and benefit Trump who would then be emboldened to do even more harm.

That is the point.

[MistakenLamb]

199. It will be a harm felt for decades on the party

[RubyRose]

178. No democratic voter is a waste of time.

[oldmanlynn]

239. Here is the example of why Dems could lose

A person that is more in touch with idolizing a person to win other than voting for our democracy and country to win

[JustAnotherGen]

300. Same response i gave in #154

JustAnotherGen

154. I would eat three gallons of water

With a fork before I would give a damn about the opinion of me from someone who doesn't have my bona fides. Donor, Democratic Committee Member, Elected Official and alternative delegate.

I will not stab my Precinct, County, or State Democratic Party members in the back. Joe is the winner of the Democratic Primary in my Borough and County. They voted for him. That's that.

I need your bona fides.

[krawhitham]

269. SAME

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

304. If you don't vote, it is as if you voted 1/2 Dem and 1/2 Rep

That would make me sad.

[LudwigPastorius]

106. The problem with your scenario is that this dark horse won't have any money, and only a couple of months to raise any.

Vice President Harris, being already on the ticket, has access to all of the campaign funds raised so far.

[sheshe2]

145. 4 white men?

Way to lose the black woman's vote. In 2020 Biden Harris had over 90% of the black women's vote. That is huge.

[JustAnotherGen]

155. Yep

But we are a waste! God forbid they listen to the faithful and loyal base.

[sheshe2]

167. IKR?

Jaysus Christo

[csusan]

185. Only men

Every time someone suggests replacing biden, the only names mentioned are men. I'm tired of it. Going to bypass the only woman mentioned. Most of the men mentioned aren't known by most of voters. But hey let's just go with some unknown unelectable man.
Also, I support Biden all the way. Yes he's old but so was jimmy Carter when he was building houses in his 80's.

[EarlG]

243. Two major problems with your suggestion

1) Biden has a record in office and the power of the incumbency. Wavering voters know what he did in office and what he would do in a second term, so it’s a choice between Trump and a know quantity. But hardly anybody knows who your suggested replacements are. You’d be starting a campaign from scratch, introducing a total unknown just a few months before the election. (And if Biden’s campaign war chest can’t be transferred, you’d be doing it with no money.)

2) You’d be stepping over the person next in line for the job — the vice president — who happens to be a Black woman, in favor of a practically unknown white man. Given that Black people and women are the Democrats’ core voters, I’d say that the message of “stand aside little lady and let a white man show you how it’s done” is politically tone-deaf at best.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

298. One major problem with your first point is that:

Many wavering voters do not believe that Biden is a know quantity anymore. They no doubt feel good about the Democrats being a known quantity, but that would apply to most nominees.

As for your second point, I agree with that. It wouldn't necessarily be the message of, "not a black woman with an ethnicity we are not used to", but it would be taken as the message by many.
I wish that the content of the person's character was the only message and not what gender or color they are.
The reality is that we do need to error, if we error at all, of not stepping over those that have been historically held down.

[roscoeroscoe]

301. Funding

Where's the $200 odd million going to come from, the balance in President Biden & VP Harris' campaign fund? No problem, just walk away from that?

[Walleye]

22. Try and imagine what the Republican reaction will be if we pull Joe from the ticket at this point

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

25. Who cares, they are going to have a reaction no matter what

[shrike3]

26. Apparently some folks aren't concerned about that.

[BannonsLiver]

100. Right now I'm trying to imagine

Why anyone would give a single rancid shit about what the GOP, their voters and their pundit class think about any fucking thing, let alone who our nominee is.

[Walleye]

183. Isn't that why there is a demand for Joe to step aside? Because the Republicans think he looks old?

[Voltaire2]

208. Uh no, it's because 57 million people saw that

utter disaster on 6/27.

[Walleye]

210. Oh, I see, it's a date that will live in infamy

Last edited Sun Jul 7, 2024, 10:02 AM - Edit history (1)

[travelingthrulife]

226. One debate and you want to throw the man who has done a great job

Way to fall for the propaganda.

[shrike3]

236. Got a plan to combat this?

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-joe-biden-presidential-race-replacing-biden-georgia-nevada-wisconsin-1919531

It's a trap, and we're walking right into it.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

271. YES.

And the "utter disaster" is TRUMP.

[BannonsLiver]

278. LMAO

🤦‍♂️

[Deek1935]

43. That is the OLD system which is now dead and buried and has been for YEARS. Moot point.

[Walleye]

184. The old system, like the electoral college?

[LeftInTX]

48. Then why have primaries? Just have a convention

[wryter2000]

71. Watch starting at 11:52

https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/lawrence-we-live-in-a-country-where-most-commentators-declared-the-liar-the-debate-winner-213936197668

Lots of things have changed in the last 50 years, and how we select a candidate has as well. We have a candidate, and woe to us if we don't support him.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

85. Yes, let's definitely reestablish the customs from over 50 years ago.

I'm so tired of the "Biden step aside" take.

President Biden is the incumbent and Democratic presidential nominee.

[oldmanlynn]

238. Agreed. Those who say That Biden not being the nominee is the end

They may be the ones who cause the end.

We have to support the nominee no matter who it is. If its Biden thats ok if its someone else thats ok

As long as we are all united to vote for the future of our democracy and country.

I want to see a leader who is exciting us to save democracy. Someone who is out there campaigning all the time.

We should have no Democratic Party supporters who are saying they wont vote.

[Orrex]

266. And 100 years ago candidates campaigned by riding the rails

Maybe Biden's imaginary replacement could try a similar barnstorming campaign for a landslide victory in November.

Talking about how candidates were selected 50 years ago is almost as relevant as talking about how they used to erect pyramids.

[Progressive dog]

291. Some of us think

that in a democracy, the members of a party should get to vote for our nominees. Until a century ago women couldn't vote.

[proud patriot]

281. I agree with you wryter2000

the only thing replacing Biden will do is splinter the party .

I find it ill advised .

[MOMFUDSKI]

303. Hakeem meeting now with certain Dems. He

better get it right and stick with Joe or his career is over before it even starts. Betting he got his orders from Nancy. Is there something she knows? This is nuts!

[lame54]

2. They were not in the ballot box with me...

Who are they to take my nominee?

If they're highly informed how come they can't figure out that no other name will make it on the ballot in time

Heritage Foundation is ready for that fight

Only 4 months left - they are wasting precious time

[brooklynite]

4. Nobody is "taking away" your nominee...

...the choice will be Biden's, but "people voted for him" won't stop elected officials, candidates and Party leaders from expressing their preference.

[shrike3]

9. And MY preference doesn't count?

And everything they do to try and force Biden out IS taking away my nominee.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

103. Look, if that happens there would be a discussion of why, then if you still feel that way, I may feel the same way. nt

[shrike3]

105. You mean I'd get to be told what's good for me? That?

[JustAnotherGen]

112. It's beginning to look like

It's rigged for Trump.

[shrike3]

115. Yes.

[lame54]

11. That's the opposite of true...

If they ran him over with a bus or pressured him out they are the ones responsible

Biden has already decided. Any change there will be their influence.

Run him out and avoid responsibility. That's a good trick

Why don't they get into a room and decide how they are going to help him over the finish line?
That would be more productive

[MorbidButterflyTat]

276. YES.

A thousand times, yes!

"Why don't they get into a room and decide how they are going to help him over the finish line?"

[LisaL]

18. Biden has already said he isn't going anywhere.

Given that, isn't it more productive to support him?

[Deek1935]

46. It would be total chaos and beyond STUPID.

[sheshe2]

153. Would you give us a breakdown of your closed meeting group.

Break it down by the numbers, male/female, white/people of color? I am also curious about the financial status of the group, are they all millionaires and up or do you have a few average Joes in there as well.

Just curious to know who is making these decisions about our future and upsetting those of us who have already and still do back Biden Harris with our vote.

Then there is this:

...the choice will be Biden's, but "people voted for him" won't stop elected officials, candidates and Party leaders from expressing their preference.

Well, like the rest of us they already expressed their "preference" in the primary.

[choie]

195. They can go fuck themselves

[The Magistrate]

215. Why Not?

If the people who vote for the Party's candidates prefer one course, what would be the point of 'party insiders' contriving the contrary?

People who vote Democrat will be discouraged, and the people at large repelled by the spectacle of weakness giving in to the press pack will display.

Some of the people you associate with, Sir, strike me as the sort you don't want to share a foxhole with....

[proud patriot]

283. They better not

Replacing Joe will do nothing but splinter the party .

I hope the party leaders are understanding this .

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

96. "no other name will make it on the ballot in time" I believe this is not correct. nt

[Martin Eden]

127. Reality Check:

What were our choices in the Democratic primary, in terms of Party leaders who likely would have entered the primary if our stting president had decided not to seek a 2nd term?

My point is that Joe Biden (whom I hold high esteem) was the foregone conclusion. There really wasn't a viable alternative on the primary ballot.

The OVERRIDING IMPERATIVE in all of this is WINNING THE ELECTION.

I must confess I really don't know what would happen if Joe stepped down and the a different nominee was chosen at the convention.

The only reason for taking that chance would be a consensus among the most astute politicos in the Democratic Party that our chances of winning would improve.

But this discussion is likely moot, because Joe has been unequivocal in his determination to stay in the race.

[Deminpenn]

165. Dean Phillips was on the ballot as a

younger, more progressive alternative. There was a choice, but voters weighed the pros and cons of Biden and went with him.

If Pelosi, who at 82 is running for reelection to the House, and Jeffries and others were so concerned about Biden, they should have had that frank discussionon with him in early 2023.

Of course, they're worried about down ballot races that effect them. Their strategy should be to focus more on House races and local state legislative elections. Right here where I am, my PA HD is an open seat. Dems have a good candidate and could flip it. Come on down! Send some $s our way.

[Martin Eden]

169. That's far from an open primary with all the likely contenders

Dean Phillips didn't have a realistic chance against a sitting president, and hardly represented all the viable options had Joe not run.

But of course Joe did run, and he is our nominee.

My point for posting was that citing the primary votes we cast (including mine for Joe) is among the least valid arguments against the idea of selecting a different candidate at this point.

If standing behind our current nominee is our best chance to win this election, I'm all for it.

I hope to God it is, and I'm an agnostic.

I voted for Joe in the 2020 primary because I thought he gave us the best chance to win, and he did.

But I thought at that time it would be a mistake at his age to seek a 2nd term, and now we're faced with ... well, the current situation, however it can most accurately be described.

Respectfully,
Martin

[Deminpenn]

175. Americans

in every state evaluated the pros and cons of Biden and decided he was better than a younger but far less well-known challenger.

If there were Dems who were as concerned about Biden a year or more ago, that was the time to run up a challenge. I hope you had a chance to see Lawrence O'Donnell talk about the calls for Biden to step down especially in the context of 1968 when LBJ decided late not to run for re-election. O'Donnell pointed out that Humphrey lost by about 1% to Nixon partly because Humphrey didn't have enough time to raise enough to campaign effectively. Kamala Harris is the only one who would be able to use all the money the Biden-Harris campaign has raised. Honestly, when Biden is re-elected, he can step down if he feels he can no longer do the job and Harris would become president.

[Martin Eden]

176. I did see that O'Donnell segment. As usual, he makes loads of sense.

I do not profess to know if an open convention makes sense at this point. Probably not.

Winning this election is imperative.

[sunnybrook]

244. I think he ran this time for one reason

Trump.

Biden has been an excellent president and he is great at the job. But if Trump had not run it is at least probable that Biden would not have run this time. His laser focus has been saving our democracy.

[Martin Eden]

249. I don't doubt President Biden's reasons or motivations

But I do question the wisdom of running for a 2nd term when he'll be 86 at the end of it.

We all share the same concern about the horrors of a 2nd Trump term. The overriding imperative is to win the November election.

Now Joe's age and stumbles seriously jeopardize the prospects for victory.

How seriously, I am not qualified to accurately predict.

Trump's negatives are likely worse, but his voting base is fanatically devoted.

Our Democratic base is more diverse, and many independents are not happy with this binary choice. GOTV in swing states will almost certainly decide this election.

The two major factors are organizational effort and enthusiam for the candidate. I fear the latter is lacking.

[yellowdogintexas]

3. the media blitz and turmoil that will happen if he does drop out and anoint another person (VP Harris of course)

OMG we will never see the end of it either. MAGA will capitalize on it to no end. Either choice at this point has bad fallout

[LeftInTX]

56. Yep..

Notice that Trump has been kinda quiet.

He's probably sitting kinda pretty at the moment.....

His handlers are like, "Keep quiet and let them eat their own".

[KPN]

61. Trump has more fallout. A sizable majority of the electorate do not want

him near the WH again.

[Blues Heron]

5. stay the course. This is no time to go wobbly.

[elleng]

93. 'Wobblies' making me 'sick.'

[MorbidButterflyTat]

102. Me too.

Deliberate rat fucking makes me sicker.

[MagickMuffin]

7. These insiders are making a huge mistake

The voters have spoken and should not be denied the candidate they voted for and support.

Any back room deals will cause such a rift between them and the voters. I believe if everyone came together and showed a strong commitment to the candidate and President that would bring the independents to join our cause.

I’ve seen how this has played out in the past and we always lose.


We should ALL get moving forward with our President!


United We Stand

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

19. The voters have spoken?

Cmon! Did we really have a choice???? I bet you there are more people like me (who voted for Biden in the primary) who wouldn’t feel as if our votes were discounted.

[Deek1935]

49. Oh for christ sake. If others wanted to have run they could have. They didn't. Game over. Just please stop.

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

57. No you stop.

Get real, what big name politician is going to run against an incumbent POTUS in a primary?! Biden also has the backing of the DNC. Don’t pretend that we had a real choice during the primary.

[shrike3]

63. Because he's an INCUMBENT. That's right. You want to throw that away?

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

70. What does that have to do with my post?

I was replying regarding people acting like their choice would be taken away as if we had a viable choice.

[shrike3]

80. It WOULD be. We have a primary system. Hell, Joe wasn't even on the ballot in NH and he won it.

Look, if you don't want Joe, that's your business. I'm done messing with this shit.

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

111. Truth be told

I think Biden has been the best POTUS since LBJ. I also think he gets a bad rap from the media and republicans for being old. And they also lie about inflation, the economy, crime, the border, etc…But unfortunately, perception is reality and Biden and his team have not been able to communicate and tackle these lies and they have had 3 years. And because of that, people think that he is too old and that all those issues I named are dire. And when I say people, I am not talking about MAGA or republicans because they will always paint a Democrat in a bad light. I am talking about my family, friends, co workers and other people I meet who tend to vote Democratic. We have a very ignorant electorate. Thats why Trump can stand up and not answer questions and tell lies and go up in the polls. Biden just has a negative stigma that won’t go away. That’s why Democrats running for Senate are outperforming him in polls.

[shrike3]

116. Saving democracy isn't enough for your friends and family?

I guess not.

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

117. As I stated

We have a very ignorant electorate. Believe it or not, most people don’t get on DU or other progressive websites, or watch prime time MSNBC.

[Big Blue Marble]

190. You are correct and make the most salient point.

Perception is reality. Period

[Dorian Gray]

206. I agree with this

I just went to a BBQ with college friends. All in our late 40s/early 50s. The consensus among everyone was that he had to step down. There are some Bernie types. Some moderate center types. Some union types. Some liberal types. (Not one MAGA in the bunch.). They all thought that Biden can't overcome the damage. And on top of that, many of them were angry that his condition was covered up.

I'm not saying it's RIGHT. It's totally unfair. But it's reality, and we need to face reality.

[Walleye]

287. I really don't understand their objective, do they want him to resign the presidency? Do they know what that would invol

[Dorian Gray]

313. They think he's on course to lose the election

They live in New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut and New York. And they are alarmed that Trump may win. They think Biden is compromised enough to convince a LOT of people to not bother voting.

Their objective is to NOT have another Trump presidency.

[Walleye]

285. My sentiments, exactly

[Ms. Toad]

72. The voters have spoken is nonsense.

Once Biden announced he was running there were no other substantive candidates. The choice, boiled down to its essence, was to vote for Biden or not vote. That isn't, in any meaningful way, voters speaking. It was Biden deciding to stay on the job.

In addition, when you vote in a primary, what you are actually voting for is a delegate for the candidate - not for a specific candidate.

I am not advocating a change - I think the time for that passed when Biden decided to run for a second term. I'm just tired of hearing that the primaries this year were some grand expression of the voters' preferences.

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

77. Exactly!

[MorbidButterflyTat]

97. Could voters have written in their choice in the primaries if they didn't want an effective Democratic president?

I don't understand this at all.

[MistakenLamb]

202. the voters in New Hampshire wrote in their preferred candidate

and that was Joe Biden!

[MorbidButterflyTat]

280. Yes!

[MistakenLamb]

201. Joe Biden wasnt on the New Hampshire primary ballot

and he beat the fuck out of Dean Philip and Marriane Williamson and “other” as a goddamn write in. That sounds sure like voters speaking to me

[Ms. Toad]

203. Not really.

Biden received zero delegates, as a result of the popular vote, since he wasn't on the ballot.

The delegates he received in New Hampshire were awarded by the DNC via a party-run delegate selection primary which choose to award the delegates to Biden.

Absent that action by the DNC, Biden would have no delegates from New Hampshire.

[JonAndKatePlusABird]

211. NBC: "Biden wins the New Hampshire Democratic primary as a write-in candidate"

President Joe Biden easily won New Hampshire’s unusual Democratic presidential primary as a write-in Tuesday, NBC News projects, blowing past two long-shot challengers whose names were on the ballot.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/new-hampshire-democrats-primary-biden-rcna135152

[Ms. Toad]

242. I don't think you understood my post.

New Hampshire has zero delegates as a result of the primary. When New Hampshire choose not to move the date of it's primary, it forfeited its right to vote for delegates. The delegates New Hampshire has were not chosen by the voters of New Hampshire - but by the DNC, in a later DNC party-run delegate selection primary, in which the voters in New Hampshire played no role.

So if the delegates from New Hampshire vote for someone else, those delegates are even less connected to votes cast by New Hampshire voters, than the delegates from any other state.

And, while I'm on the issue of delegates, primary voters aren't actually voting for a candidate.
They are voting for delegates. Even delegates actually chosen by voters of a particular state aren't, in all circumstances, required to vote for the candidate the voters choose.

[thucythucy]

263. If there had been substantial discontent with President Biden within the party

a candidate would have arisen as a serious contender.

Senators Eugene McCarthy and Robert Kennedy in 1968, Senator Edward Kennedy in 1980 immediately come to mind. Rank and file in the party were unhappy with the incumbent, leading to those significant challenges.

As for voters actually "voting for a delegate" and not "a specific candidate," no offense but that strikes me as a bit of sophistry.

One could just as easily say voters don't vote for President, but rather for a slate in their state's Electoral College.

I doubt most primary voters even know the name of their chosen candidate's delegate to the convention, just as the vast majority of those who vote for President have no idea who they're selecting as an Elector.

So I'd argue that the primaries this year were indeed, for whatever it's worth, an expression of voters' preference.

[shrike3]

8. Actually, they are bedwetters.

The pundit class is already sharpening its knives for Kamala. They will go after her with the same gusto. And giving into this relentless pundit push to get Joe out of there will embolden them. It'll show weakness. It'll be appeasement. And appeasement only results in one thing.

[Walleye]

28. They would love to run against Kamala. They only have to say that she laughs out loud. They don't like women.

[shrike3]

30. Exactly. Oh, my lord, I can see it now.;

[Walleye]

39. Me too I can picture the whole scenario if we pull Joe out of there, and the delight of the Republicans

[sop]

12. Are there a growing number of Republicans - highly informed and politically engaged - saying Trump should

step aside? It's become abundantly evident to everyone who hasn't been living in a cave for the last eight years that Trump is totally unfit to be president, so why aren't we hearing similar reports from well-connected Republican insiders that their funding circles are demanding Trump step aside? Maybe you could explain it to us.

[brooklynite]

21. My focus is on electing Democrats. So is the focus of my friends and political acquaintances.

[Walleye]

31. I only hope if Joe does drop out, and we lose, someone will step up and take responsibility for this fiasco

[Silent Type]

38. Either move has a lot of risks. But I think blindly muddling trough will cost us presidency and likely Congressional seats

[Walleye]

41. I just happen to think that Joe Biden knows a lot more about winning elections than I do

[Silent Type]

47. Me too and if he were clearly winning we wouldn't be discussing this. But he's not clearly winning.

[Walleye]

52. A candidate is not "winning" until they win the most votes in an election

[Silent Type]

58. No joke. And I don't feel like watching us lose on Nov 5th, especially to a POS GOPer.

[sop]

32. Oh, I see. You're concerned Biden will lose.

[brooklynite]

55. I'm immensely concerned that Biden will lose.

I laid out my thoughts on what Biden had to do to right his campaign a week ago. So far, I'm not seeing things shift.

nb: In 1984, I was a volunteer for Walter Mondale. An attitude early on was that, of course he'd win, because of course everyone hated Reagan as much as we didn't.

In October, I spent a day with Mayor Koch driving around NYC to pro-Mondale campaign rallies. I worked my tail off to turn out voters. But consider that, if it was necessary to campaign for the Democrats in the most Democratic City in one of the most Democratic States, the odds of winning were minimal.

I evaluate races as objectively as possible and never let emotional bias cloud my judgement.

[LeftInTX]

83. And if they would have swapped out Mondale, would have it been better?

I don't think so.....

It would have been worse...
Should they have brought back a more "electable" John Glenn?

The odds are, they would not have been able to agree on someone.

[Ocelot II]

114. I don't recall any attitude at that time that "of course" Mondale would win.

Here in Mondale's home state we were worried that he wouldn't win, and we knew very well that even in this state, not everybody hated Reagan. As it turned out Mondale won only Minnesota, and not even by a landslide.

[The Magistrate]

213. I Certainly Do Not Either, Ma'am

Grounds for optimism, and there were some, related to a recent recession, and some concerns about the man's age. There was no sense of widespread hatred for Reagan.

Perhaps an early indication of poor judgement regarding political currents?

[choie]

196. Yeah we get it.

You’ve shown us your credentials numerous times.

[Quiet Em]

13. I don't doubt you or what you've been hearing at all

The debate, and the media's relentless attack on it, stirred up a lot of fear and concern. But I am seeing signs now that the tide has turned. Biden's age is not going to be enough to deter people from voting and making sure the dictator wannabe retires for good.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

14. I would love to give my 2 cents, but I believe EarlG is asking us not to engage with this line of thought. Am I wrong?

[BootinUp]

16. You will have to convince me that telling them to buck up is the wrong approach. Of course you ignore me anyway. nt

[FrenchCitizen]

17. HAHAHA

“Which is significant enough to get NANCY PELOSI and HAKEEM JEFFRIES to moderate our campaign events”☝️🤓 ☝️🤓 ☝️🤓 ☝️🤓

[tinrobot]

20. Sorry, but bailing on a successful incumbent simply looks weak.

No other way to spin it.

If we can bail on our candidates, will we also bail on our promises to voters?

Meanwhile, Republicans never admit fault and present a united front, no matter what. That has lead to some awful policies, but they also win way more elections than they should.

[LeftInTX]

23. They're shooting themselves in the foot and they're being too reactive.

The odds of winning the presidency with be no better and likely lower if Biden is out.

We need to think of our party too. We can't just do nilly-willy, like a weather vane, sling shot. Our party needs stability also. Throwing off the presidential nominee is recipe to lose on all fronts, including local elections. Even some of the Yellow Dogs will abandon the party if they perceive it to be unstable.

They're playing right into the GOP's hands. The GOP wants Biden off the ticket and they're playing this reverse psychology thing. If we get rid of Biden, then they will use lawsuits to get the new nominee off the ticket. State Election Codes are all new and they're written with regards to modern, joint primaries. In Texas, Abbott can just write an executive order that would modify the election code so that the nominee would not be on the ballot. He could simply state, "Texans voted to keep Biden on the ballot and now the DNC is going against the will of Texans". He could then require Biden's name to remain, but Biden won't be on the ticket. Remember the south is "state's rights".

Of course, Texas isn't in play, but what about down ballot races. What about our state races? Heck even our popular sheriff could lose if we don't have a Democrat at the top of the ticket.

[cilla4progress]

27. Too bad. They are vastly wrong.

Is that better?

[Desert grandma]

33. I can understand and sympathize with your position.

However, it might be wise to point out to these members of the funding circle, that the choice is between Trump and our President. One a convicted felon and rapist as well as a corrupt businessman who cannot tell the truth and is showing cognitive decline, or a decent, honest, compassionate elder statesman who has led this country well for the last 3 plus years and had a terrible night. Two older candidates, which would you choose?

[Walleye]

45. And which one do they think will keep NATO together and stability in the world.

[GPV]

35. What do they know that we don't know? Also,

who do they want instead?

[Funtatlaguy]

37. Brook, what do you think odds are that Biden drops out?

[brooklynite]

182. Still low, but higher than last week.

Let's see what happens after details of tomorrow's House Caucus meeting leak out (and they will).

[Funtatlaguy]

187. Thank you.

[Deek1935]

40. And how many of them, like you, thought Dean Phillips was going to win the New Hampshire primary? They are obviously

not very knowledgeable being sucked in by non-predictive ever-shifting polls, bullshit punditry, and a corporate media hit job giving an orange rapist a free pass.

They are obviously completely un-knowledgable if they think they aren't falling into one loser of a self-inflicted rabbit hole by overturning the votes of millions of primary voters who voted for Biden and not supporting him now, as the sitting nominee president, over one poor debate performance (where the orange rapist pathologically lied 50 times). It would toss the party into complete anger, division, and disarray thus killing us for November. Electorates don't vote for parties in disarray. A new candidate will not be coronated. Voters, who stay with the party (many will leave), will want a say in all 50 states. It will be contested and litigated.

It will, believe me. I know an ever growing number of people who are saying they will leave the party if Biden is "forced out". It would be the absolutely STUPIDEST move in the history of American electoral politics. Complete political suicide.
If they can't see that, they don't have a fucking clue.

Debates are NOT predictive. Never have been, never will be.

Polls are NOT predictive.

GOVERNING is what IS predictive, and Biden has governed well. THAT is what matters, not campaign tricks, polls, or bullshit media punditry. Though Biden and his team will continue to run a robust campaign.

And just who do these "geniuses" think the new nominee is going to be? And just what makes them think he or she will be any better? Seriosuly. These "geniuses" wants to blow up the national campaign financing and groundgame apparatus already in place for Biden/Harris over this stupid debate and the corporate media bullshit? Really? My fucking christ!

[Walleye]

50. Exactly and are these the same geniuses who said Al Franken had to go?

[MichMan]

228. Senators Harris, Warren and Sanders, plus a couple dozen of their congressional colleagues did

[Walleye]

235. And they were all wrong in my opinion

[unc70]

98. Trip down memory lane in NH

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218619929

Wonder how many of his funding group also expected Dean Phillips to win the NH primary.

[FHRRK]

137. Exactly

The negativity goes back to the primaries for many. Including that Phillips would have a good showing.

When wrong, no apologies, no mea culpa, just more of the same

[tenderfoot]

44. Biden can step aside AFTER he's reelected

eom

[sop]

92. Exactly.

If at some point advancing age makes Biden unable to continue as president, he should step down. So far, I see no evidence of that.

[Rstrstx]

163. The problem with that...

…is that Congress would have to approve any replacement for VP. If either the House or the Senate are controlled by Republicans what do you think the odds are that we’ll get our choice? If we take back the House I wouldn’t be as worried, Jeffries would be next in line if a VP hasn’t been approved.

[tenderfoot]

59. More ANONYMOUS sources say Biden should step down

eom

[BootinUp]

66. Notice. Its the big money folks. They think it buys them special say in the matter. Fuck our votes.

[senseandsensibility]

136. What more does it take to convince you?

Hope this isn't necessary, but just in case.

[Blaukraut]

65. How many of them were concerned BEFORE the media feeding frenzy?

The media are creating the narrative that Biden isn't fit for office by 'reporting' on the issue with minimal sourcing. It's become a vicious cycle. A handful of anonymous sources leak something to media, who run with it. Their reporting creates more panic and more unnamed sources, willing to voice their new panic to the media, and on and on it goes.

[CivicGrief]

67. Where was this Susan Collins-level concern during the primaries?

You and your cohort are being played.

[Autumn]

68. There are no "bed-wetters" or "spineless weaklings" that want Biden out. But I do think

that the wealthy and the movers and shakers are getting nervous that their tax breaks will go away.

[brooklynite]

79. Most of them put their money into the Biden campaign last year.

We’re not talking about grassroots contributions.

But I’m seeing more stories about high dollar donors pulling back.

[Autumn]

108. Did they only just now realize that President Biden is an older man?

[EarlG]

69. Are you suggesting that

these people will withhold their money and/or votes if Biden doesn’t step down? Surely that can’t be the case.

[BootinUp]

88. Oh yeah message received.

[LeftInTX]

110. There are some heavy weights, who do this stuff.

I know you know more than I do, but there are heavy donors where I live and the local party solicits them for contributions. It's an ongoing thing. The donors aren't elected, but are usually well off people.

If the party or candidate isn't seen as viable, they will start to hold back on contributions.

I know Abigail Disney has stopped contributions.


It's up to the party to encourage donors to keep donating.

So, I do believe that donors are holding back. The party asks them for contributions and they may be saying they're gonna wait. But, the donors are influenced by all the pundits, handwringers, media ...blah blah blah, themselves.....

The party needs to convince donors about the reality of what happens if Biden is replaced. I think the heavy rollers are the ones who are being fickle.

I personally think it is foolish to try to replace him. We're shooting ourselves in the foot. I think the donor class is watching too much TV.

___
ETA: I'm not connected to the presidential campaign or anything. I just know what I know from limited experience locally.

[JustAnotherGen]

113. I believe he is

[sheshe2]

166. I do as well.

[femmedem]

120. The media has been reporting that yes, donors are saying they'll withhold contributions unless Biden steps aside.

From The Guardian:

On Thursday, Abigail Disney – the heir to the Disney family fortune and a major party donor – announced she would withhold donations unless Biden dropped out of the race.

“This is realism, not disrespect,” Disney told CNBC, adding: “If Biden does not step down the Democrats will lose. Of that I am absolutely certain. The consequences for the loss will be genuinely dire.”

Another prominent donor followed on Friday. The media tycoon Barry Diller, when asked by the Ankler if he and his wife, the designer Diane von Fürstenberg, were holding firm with Biden’s campaign, he replied: “No.”

More: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/05/joe-biden-election-donors-abigail-disney-pause

CNN, among others, is reporting the same: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/04/democratic-donors-wont-finance-party-until-joe-biden-drops-out.html#:~:text=Abigail%20Disney%2C%20an%20heiress%20to,planned%20donations%20of%20%243.5%20million.

[LeftInTX]

126. Kudos to the founder of LinkedIn!

[Qutzupalotl]

73. Did they explain how suddenly putting ourselves at a financial disadvantage

will help us win?

[LeftInTX]

122. Good one!

[MorbidButterflyTat]

75. So what's the reality check?

We should all agree that President Biden should step aside because your anonymous highly informed and politically engaged group says so?

Please, school us uninformed nobodies with whom you inexplicitly insist upon engaging how we should "address the problem."

Thrill us with your political acumen.

[senseandsensibility]

172. Why should this connected DUer waste his time

with the likes of you? He started this thread to lecture us. That doesn't involve our feedback. He wants us to just read absorb and maybe chime in with a "good one, sir" occasionally (or the thread will die).

[choie]

198. But the funding circle!

[maxrandb]

76. So tell us oh wise "connected" one

What do they tell you about the 10's of millions of voters that chose President Biden in the primaries?

What do they say about the money he raised? Going to give back donations middle class Americans made to the Biden campaign, or do they think they can just steal it and give it to someone else?

What do they say about the rat-fucking Retrumplican State Legislatures and Secretaries of State and State AG's that will sue the shit out of the DNC's "replacement theory". Please don't say; "take it to the Supreme Court".

Answer those questions please, because if your "goal" is to elect Democrats, you should be sued for malpractice.

Pushing Biden out is political suicide.

[LeftInTX]

131. Hey I like that term! "Replacement Theory"...It's catchy!!!

Yeah, Abbott will write an executive order to somehow nullify the "Replacement Theory". Maybe it would just be the word, "Elector" on the ballot, cuz hey we're voting for electors anyway and it's in the constitution and the SCOTUS will agree.

He has suspended laws for elections previously, so he would do it in this case.

[Orrex]

273. Agreed. Pushing Biden out is voting for Trump.

You'd think that someone who never misses a chance to scold us "unconnected" plebes would understand that.

[flamingdem]

78. If they are saavy exactly what path do they propose?

We'll loose if we show disunity at this point so that's their first mistake. The second mistake is thinking Kamala could win. The third mistake is thinking that running any other candidate could work especially with the time table.

What should we expect next in terms of problem solving?

[lostnfound]

81. Hopefully they are now discussing Trump's theft of classified document theft and Judge Cannon nt

[krawhitham]

270. +1

[Scrivener7]

89. Then your "funding circle" qualifies as being misled.

Changing horses now would be a disaster. It is the wish only of republiQans and of imbecilic people who call themselves Democrats but don't want Democrats to win.

[Nixie]

90. Real reality checks also include knowing the traps whether

knowingly or unknowingly. There has been coverage now that the RW is slobbering to file lawsuits to stop another candidate from getting on the ballot(s). We see how this works now thanks to Trump----file lawsuits and friendly judges give them the delays or victories they want.

But this is a big wet dream for the other side already. Dems attacking Biden instead of Trump, Dems attacking Dems, I guess that's our "reality."

[Deek1935]

99. Spot on! Perfectly said. Trump and the MAGATS are laughing their asses of right now at the Dem Party.

[Sneederbunk]

91. We have to listen to this crap until August 19.

Wish we were having our convention on July 15 instead of the repugs.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

123. I don't expect the BS to end on August 19

It will never end.

It seems some people's reason for living is to crap on everybody else.

[Grolph_]

94. Then I consider you and yours as gullible

You have drank the kool-aid

[LetMyPeopleVote]

95. Dems attacking Biden are 'doing more damage' than the debate: analyst

These attacks on President Biden are very stupid and only helping TFG. Why are supposed Democrats working to re-elect TFG?

Link to tweet

https://www.rawstory.com/biden-debate-2668695029/

After stating Biden needs to get in front of voters more, she told the MSNBC hosts, "I would suggest that the response of that very small number of Democrats that have really come out after the president, and some of the media folks that have really come down on him since the election have done more damage and more harm than the president himself did during that debate."

"For me, and millions of Americans like me, this election is about the future of our country. It is about democracy, it is about getting away from the imperialistic, criminal presidency of Donald Trump and making sure that our children have a future that we can feel good about and be proud of," she explained.

She added, "It naive to think that at this point in the process you can switch candidates and still defeat Donald Trump. It is naive to think that the Democratic party will come out of a contested convention more united and stronger than they are today. "

"I think there is a lot more damage being done by folks other than Joe Biden when you look at how folks are reacting to this," she concluded.

[LeftInTX]

135. Exactly

[Cha]

161. Of Course they Are.. Thaks a Crap Load, Dem Attackers.

Link to tweet

[Progressive dog]

101. So they want to buy a new candidate?

and you're in favor of that? Who did they have in mind.?

[JohnSJ]

119. No the jackass Carville has been talking to big donors not to donate unless Biden steps down. Bullshit

[k55f5r]

149. F*** Carville.

He's a political operative but he's not a Democrat. He talks like one but his ideas are retro grade.

[JohnSJ]

150. I really hope he is not included in the Democratic Party discussions on this.

[JohnSJ]

121. Hunter Thompson's Fear and Loathing about the 1972 election, documented

just how nefarious some Democrats were

[waterwatcher123]

128. Who Really Needs the Reality Check?

Please explain a successful Plan B if you remove Biden from the presidential race. How do you get a new candidate on the ballot in 50 states, hire staff, open local offices, develop a successful media and fund raising strategy, get out the vote and deal with the millions of people who are going to feel like their vote was subverted by a group of insiders? There is not enough time to accomplish this goal, let alone do it in a way that does not totally alienate Democrats. It has not worked in the past to switch candidates in mid-stream and it will not work now. We watched with horror years ago when US senator Paul Wellstone and his family were killed in a plane crash in northern Minnesota. Not even the former vice president, Walter Mondale, was able to step in and develop an effective campaign in time to save the seat. The same thing happened to Hubert Humphrey when Johnson decided not to run.

We do not need to re-litigate the primary. We have to win the election to prevent a complete collapse of our democracy. There is no one better positioned to win the election than Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. If Joe decides to bow out early in his term (which seems likely), he can appoint the first woman of color as president.

[delisen]

130. It is the party and the Dem insiders who are creating this mess.

Biden screwed up and now the party and the insiders have made the situation much worse.

We are living in an authoritarian age with many people turning to strongman rule.

The leaders and insiders are having a food fight in public. It looks as though there is no one in charge at the frat house and a drunken mob headed over to the Dean’s house and are kicking in the front door.

It is embarrassing and demoralizing for those of us who try to increase the Dem vote. if we has a chance in Georgia it is fast evaporating. I am spending the weekend in the mountains, a majority Maga area, and it is the Democratic Party that is looking bad, not so much Biden.

[ALBliberal]

132. Alright the term "malicious gossip" rules the day

Despite being reported by credible news outlets I guess I am just a malicious gossip.

I will self delete.

I love Biden. For the record.

[DiamondShark]

133. Does this have to do with the virtual roll call the DNC had planned?

[Lonestarblue]

134. I will vote for Biden in November but I understand the angst among Democrats.

I watched both the debate and last night’s interview with Stephanopoulos with friends who are also strong Democratic supporters. The debate was horrid for Biden and we all felt terrible for him. The interview last night was better, but everyone agreed that Biden was too defensive. George gave him an opportunity to talk not only about his physical and mental abilities to handle the job and even more talk about what he wants to do for the country with another term.

Don’t get me wrong. I support Biden, and I’m sure he feels besieged by the media and his critics in the Democratic Party, but it’s always better to go on the offense instead of being defensive.

[FHRRK]

142. Tell your friends to toughen the fuck up

This is low level basic rat fucking. If they can’t take this heat they sure as hell aren’t equipped to handle anything when the heat gets turned up.

[DFW]

143. Worthy of pondering

The most strident pounding of the theme of Biden pulling out that I have seen does too come from the media.

I do not hang with Nancy Pelosi or Mark Warner, but I still have a few friends left in Congress, just the same. One, Angie Craig of Minnesota (she is originally from Arkansas, she told me), actually did come out and urge Biden to step aside. The others have not. Granted, they are not media rock stars, but I respect every one of them, and I‘m sure every one of us DU who is a constituent of theirs does, too. I think that when people like Jerry Nadler, Rubén Gallego, Jon Ossoff, John Hickenlooper and Mark Kelly have stuck with Biden, as have such friends not in Congress as Howard Dean and Norm Ornstein, it should carry at least a little weight. Since I don‘t know Nancy Pelosi, Mark Warner, and I haven‘t spoken to Jim Carville since Denver, 2008, I‘ll listen to what they have to say, but I‘ll make up my own mind on this. So far, my mind is made up to support Joe Biden for re-election.

Our little "Marks and Jo(h)ns" dinner, in Washington, 2022:

[ProfessorGAC]

144. Interesting Definition Of Reality You've Got There

[JohnSJ]

151. Reality check? What makes you think that YOUR candidate funding circle is right. If I recall correctly some of

your prognostications were not so astute. Your choice Michael Bennet for President in 2020 for instance.

[sheshe2]

170. I have no clue who that even is...

[W_HAMILTON]

191. And Dean Phillips in the New Hampshire primary this year...

It sounds to me like Biden is on the list (that includes Fetterman, Beto, among many others) that didn't sufficiently kiss the ring -- probably because none of them needed to be held hostage over a few bucks since they were all quite capable of raising plenty of money on their own, regardless of what any individual donor or small circle of donors chooses to do.

[brooklynite]

219. I haven't said they're RIGHT. I've said they're worried.

Do you imagine they're an isolated case?

[MorbidButterflyTat]

258. As their friend,

why don't you calm their fears, instead of spreading it to us? What are they afraid of? What's their solution?

Apparently three + years of Biden/Harris accomplishments blow away in a puff of fickle wind for some.

[betsuni]

156. They say a LOT of things. So what.

[Turbineguy]

157. Reading material

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusions_and_the_Madness_of_Crowds

[Farmer-Rick]

158. People seem to be easily manipulated

Remember when the GOP was making noises about not having Trump as their nomination?

Yeah, that went nowhere because Trump was the closest thing they had to an incumbent.

An encumbent is always in a better position to win.

Want to stir up the party and get some new faces in? Do it in an off year. Not 4 months before the election. If replacing Biden was a true grassroots political movement, it wouldn't be happening now. It would have already happened.

You know this is driven by Filthy-rich Trump lovers and Russian Trolls and bots because of the timing.

[Blue Full Moon]

160. Rich?

Probably secretly for tRump.

[Funtatlaguy]

162. As far as I know, Brooklynite is the only poster with real

legitimate contacts in the upper echelons of power in the Democratic Party that posts here.
That’s why his information (whether you like hearing it or not) is so valuable.
I, for one, really appreciate that he shares such information on this site.
He doesn’t have to. He isn’t paid for it.
He just wants, like all of us, to see Democrats win.

[debm55]

180. How do you know any of that is real. Anyone can say anything, claim to be anyone and how do we know. Shit, I am the

present leader of Joe"s voters in my area.

[brooklynite]

218. IOW you're saying I'm making this up?

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/democratic-donors-drive-big-impact-house-election-races-how-rcna155874

https://www.westsidespirit.com/voices/sarah-and-victor-kovner-a-couple-that-defines-long-time-dem-activism-in-the-city-XF3304725

Do you honestly believe that there aren;t dedicated Democrats who feel uncomfortable about Biden continuing as our candidate?

[debm55]

220. I honestly don't know what to think any more with the media and press with their stories,

[brooklynite]

221. And how does that impact what people TELL YOU here?

[debm55]

229. Honestly , I don't . But something doesn't seem quite right .

[LeftInTX]

240. Here's his twitter. He knows more people than I do

https://twitter.com/ChrisBastianBkl

[debm55]

245. Thank you, LeftinTX. But twitter is not working for me. I do see President Biden with a person--I guess it's chris. then

it switches to tell me I must pay. I have enough negatives in my life right now, with my husband having Malignant Cancer. I would just like to see some positives.

[SocialDemocrat61]

246. True

Anyone can claim anything and there is no way to prove or disprove them. That’s why it’s always best to focus on the issue and not the person.

[JohnSJ]

257. So? James Carville has "real legitimate contacts in the echelons of power in the Democratic Party", and

he is actively going around to big donors telling them to stop contributions until President Biden steps down.

That isn't what Brooklynite is doing, but what I am saying is just because someone has "contacts, and maybe even influence" within the Democratic party, does not mean they are necessarily right or wrong in their assessment.

From my perspective it is no better or worse than anyone else's opinion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_and_Loathing_on_the_Campaign_Trail_%2772

[Gore1FL]

171. So the position of your group of money givers has decided that the entirety of Democratic leadership has failed.

OK.

Seems pretty wrong to me, but you do you.

[JCMach1]

174. They should have thought about this in Primary Season

You don't get to end run around democracy because you are not 100% happy with the choice.

I am old enough to remember Ted Kennedy and his supporters ratf'ing Carter enough to bring him down in the General.

[MichMan]

230. And just what were the repercussions for Sen. Kennedy from that ?

He continued to be reelected, and remained a popular and influential member of the party

[JCMach1]

295. He was a Kennedy, sooo... He got a pass by a lot.of people

Despite the ratf'ery

[Dorian Gray]

177. Unfortunately

I agree that this is the case. Too many people out there feel misled about the severity of his cognitive decline, and the damage has been done to him as a candidate.

I am sad for him. For the people who worked hard in the last four years to get us where we are, but it's becoming a common belief that if he had the juice to do this, he'd have bene out there 24/7 in the past week and a half.

[thucythucy]

181. Um, he's made several campaign appearances,

sat for a major interview, and, oh yeah, he's the president of the United States and so is also doing that job as well.

"24/7"?

When was the last time you worked 24 hours a day for seven days in a row?

[Dorian Gray]

205. Right. It's totally unfair

and shitty that he finds himself in this situation where people are losing confidence bc he's unable to pull off a superhuman work load.

But it's the situation we've found ourselves in.

It's beyond frustrating and unfair and stupid.

But it's reality.

[brooklynite]

217. Every successful Presidential re-election involves both doing the day job and successfully campaigning...

Not clear why people gravitate to this as an excuse.

[shrike3]

250. Do your concerned donors have a plan for when the ballot change is challenged in swing states?

And the media makes it part of the "Dems in disarray" narrative?

[thucythucy]

253. I wasn't offering it as an "excuse"

but rather as a refutation of the implication that he'd somehow been inactive since the last debate.

Every successful Presidential re-election campaign has it's ups and downs, including the occcasional debate loss--Reagan in 1984, Obama in 2012.

Not clear why some people gravitate toward throwing in the towel within days, even hours of such an event.

[choie]

200. "Belief"

One of the most dangerous words in the English language.

[Dorian Gray]

204. That may be true

but you have an electorate who has less and less faith (another problematic word?) that he can do this, and that's a problem we need to tackle.

[choie]

194. We voted for the man

And you want 10s of millions of voters to be discounted??

[gab13by13]

209. I must come back to ask this question,

Brooklynite, you say "my candidate funding circle, and say there are many members calling for Joe to step aside and yet you do not say what your opinion is. Do you agree with the many members of your funding circle?

Conor Lamb wasn't the better choice over John Fetterman, by the way, and Fetterman is very outspoken against Democrats who are calling for Joe to step aside. I am Ridin with Joe and Big John. Can't wait to vote for President Biden.

[brooklynite]

216. I've stated my opinion several times.

I don't see a practical way to build support for a candidate other than Biden. I also don't see Biden addressing the concerns the public has about his ability to win the election.

[Scrivener7]

296. So your plan is to throw more shit into the ring? Gee. That's ... novel.

[58Sunliner]

223. Another anonymous sources bull shit story.

I don't care what your circle says. I don't even know who these people are. Many of us here on DU are "highly informed and politically engaged" and want Biden for concrete reasons.

[brooklynite]

224. RE you saying you don't think there are serious concerns among the Democratic diaspora?

Or that you don't care?

[lapucelle]

259. "The Democratic diaspora"? What on earth is that?

I volunteer on campaigns big and small. We often heed the rank and file and always listen carefully to voters.

We're also good at humoring the folks with checkbooks, up to a point.

[Scrivener7]

294. So ... expats are concerned? Is that what you're trying to say?

Because I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[shrike3]

248. Guess saving Democracy isn't important enough for y'all.

[-misanthroptimist]

232. Yes, the Republicans must be appeased.

It's the only way that Democrats can win...oh, wait.

I've never been a huge fan of Biden; nor do I dislike him. But forcing him to drop out due to a bad debate performance is a remarkably stupid idea, no matter how well connected the person is.

[MiHale]

237. Then how do we address the 'problem'?...

Name calling never accomplished anything…that’s a given, so what now? Let it be, let them handle it? Forget about it? Fight like heck for the only candidate we have now?
You left this here with no resolve.

[Prairie_Seagull]

247. When the President, Joe Biden

gets over this hurdle, I will see it as one more reason to support our incumbent 100 percent.

[Emile]

251. Why do you keep posting stuff like this?

Are you wanting our democratic president to resign?

[BootinUp]

254. Mainly, brooklynites focus is on communicating info from the braintrust* to the masses*. nt

[Emile]

305. LOL over and over.

[BootinUp]

311. Well... it must be very important, I guess. nt

[thucythucy]

260. Maybe I missed it, but who do you and your "significant candidate funding circle" suggest

as the alternate?

President Biden stepping down, in your plan, is step one.

Step two is someone else running in his place.

Who in your opinion should that be?

[Orrex]

272. Where would DU be without finger-wagging gatekeepers to tell us how to think?

[brooklynite]

277. What have I told you to think?

I've told you what equally committed Democrats that I know are thinking, even if its different.

[Orrex]

279. LOL. It's like you think I haven't been enduring your drivel for months.

I see you.

[Autumn]

274. Please tell them to shut the fuck up and sit down. We made our choice in 2020

(TWICE) and again in this years primary. Those members are not very highly informed if they didn't realize how old Biden was and that and a person gets older every year.

[Tommy Carcetti]

282. We get it.

You have many leather-bound books and your apartment smells of rich mahogany.

[brooklynite]

284. Nope...

All paperbacks. Furniture from Ikea. And we drive a hatchback.

That's one reason we can contribute as much as we do to Democratic candidates (Biden included).

[Progressive dog]

286. Right

Could you give us some names with amounts they have donated so far ?
I'd also like to know how much more money a new candidate will get if we throw Joe under bus and of course who would be an acceptable candidate to those big donors.

[Music Man]

288. Thank you, brooklynite!

I am of the opinion that Joe Biden needs to stay in the race (for many reasons). But the failure to see things as they really are will prevent us from coming up with solutions to ensure a Biden victory this November.

You have been unafraid to share information some here don't want to hear. I appreciate your spine.

[Scrivener7]

293. Or maybe it's just information that we have heard ad nauseam and don't need a

new post every couple of hours saying the same thing.

Brooklynite's "funding group" is not the authority. Neither is the media they seem to encourage. The primary votes are the authority. And the primary is over. Time to move on.

[gay texan]

289. Concern noted

Im sticking with Joe all the fuckin' way. Aint no such thing as a perfect canidate.

GOTFV

[Tumbulu]

290. Well coming here and repeating this propaganda endlessly is not helping either

Please just stop it!

[Jersey Devil]

297. I have consulted many oracles who disagree with your funding circle

In addition, my Ouiga Board tells me that your "funding circle" consists of nothing but a few old geezers sitting around having a few beers at Vinny's Boom Boom Room yearning for the days of Ballantine and Schaeffer Beer.

[brooklynite]

309. Well, as a starting point, you could look up my FEC records...

...I don't hide my identity.

$86,500 donated personally so far (in addition to State and local races).

The funding circle does substantially more than that.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/democratic-donors-drive-big-impact-house-election-races-how-rcna155874

But the name calling was creative...

[LetMyPeopleVote]

307. Here is why the media is not covering TFG

[LetMyPeopleVote]

308. The Congressional Black Caucus is largely behind President Biden.

Link to tweet

[OneGrassRoot]

310. I'm starting to think...

this is (or has evolved into) a reverse psychology strategy.

Because the reactions I see by regular voters to the plethora of reports such as this by the political and pundit and even celebrity class is stronger and stronger support of President Biden. People are activated whereas they weren’t before. Unfortunately their view of elected Dems calling on Biden to step aside is plummeting.

I’m starting to get belligerently defensive of the president and VP and, at this point, really pissed at the naysayers. I hope this has just become a way to solidify the base seeing how most people were still very supportive after the debate; turning lemons into lemonade in a bit of a fucked up way.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

314. Here's some historical perspective on why you cannot change candidates at this late date

Link to tweet