Why do people think switching out Joe at this point would solve anything?

[Just_Vote_Dem]

There is the problem of using campaign funds that have been pledged to Biden.

Repubs are ready to challenge any changes in court, and we know they will find judges to their liking, who could at least delay if not help them.

The media will be ravenous on vetting our new candidate.

Many Democrats who do not follow politics closely are going to wonder what the hell is going on.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. We MUST support Joe!

[sop]

1. Because the people who want to switch out Joe don't want to solve anything.

[Goodheart]

49. That's ridiculous.

[sop]

80. What do you want to solve?

[AZProgressive]

2. If Kamala Harris were the nominee or top of the ticket then they could still use campaign funds

I also think she would be more effective in a debate. If Biden were to drop out Harris is the best option because of the campaign cash and would be more effective at arguing or debating.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

4. And the media is already starting to do to her what they did to Hillary

"What did Harris know about Biden?" seems to be what their message will be.

[stevebreeze]

77. I would add that the media is also responsible for trashing Joe for his age for years!

[LiberalFighter]

7. Campaign funds is not enough

[Shrek]

12. I don't see how VP Harris is anything but a net gain

Everyone supporting President Biden would also vote for VP Harris.

There is also some quantum of voters who now doubt President Biden but will happily support VP Harris.

That's a net gain in votes. Anything that improves the chances of defeating Donald Trump answers the question posed by the OP.

Note to jury, if there is one: I am not calling for President Biden to drop out. I am speculating that if VP Harris were to be the candidate, she would receive more votes.

[DFW]

30. This may seem cynical, but I disagree

I think that NOT everyone supporting President Biden would support Kamala Harris. Racist and sexist Republicans in swing states that voted for Biden last time due to Trump not following through on his economic promises have no reason to assume that Kamala Harris will be a clone of Biden.

He came from the rust belt. She comes from one of the “coastal elite” states. Biden has a reputation for representing the working man. Harris has a reputation as a tough prosecutor for whom winning a conviction was more important than whether or not the accused was really guilty. These are very exploitable differences that even a novice Republican campaign strategist would pick up on and exploit. Even Biden’s campaign people knew this in 2019-2020, and no one has forgotten that her presidential bid in the 2020 primaries went nowhere. Sure, she has learned and grown as Biden’s VP, but just because WE know that, it doesn’t guarantee that a Harris campaign staff can convince rural voters in Wisconsin, Georgia, Pennsylvania and Michigan of that, especially in four months.

[shrike3]

47. I'm glad you acknowledge the "coastal elite" problem.

I live in the rust belt. Voters here have been sold for years the idea that California is a hellhole people are desperately fleeing. Newsom would face the same problem. It would definitely not work in her favor.

[shrike3]

46. Plus, there's the fact that knives are already sharpening for Kamala.

Axios reporter said she will have "a lot to answer for" regarding her continued support for Biden. Tipping his hand as to what the line of attack will be.

[Attilatheblond]

61. And while Trump might not GOTV like in the past, GOP fence sitters would turn out in force against Harris

It would lose swing states and probably lose us down ballot races too.

[Goodheart]

51. It's a pity that we have to run scared for supporting Kamala.

[ForgedCrank]

75. It really

is a shame, I have to agree. While I vehemently disagree with replacing Joe Biden, I believe Harris would be an excellent President if that situation ever arose, AFTER an election though, not before.

[Progressive dog]

55. That is wishful thinking IMO

If Joe can't continue to do the job,Kamala will replace him. Explain to me why I would want Joe out if I knew that?

[Ferrets are Cool]

56. No, not in my opinion.

There are a LOT of swing voters who are saying "I will vote for Biden because he looks like me." Plus, it makes us look weak.
It's a no win situation to switch candidates.

[ecstatic]

63. I could get people who are currently planning to stay home to vote

for KH. Full transparency, I'm referring to black millennials and a few Gen Xers, and basically any black person who's offended by the framing of Harris as a DEI candidate. That's just fucking offensive.

I don't know how KH at the top of the ticket would change things for white "independents" or unmotivated voters.

[hamsterjill]

70. No, they wouldn't.

Please list her accomplishments as VP. In all seriousness, maybe I’m just out of touch, but what has she done? I live in Texas and even Democrats don’t think she did a good job on her border visit.

Please convince me. I want to be convinced. She’s smart and she was an awesome Senator. But as VP, what has she done that has distinguished her?

I would love to have a woman as President in my lifetime, and I’d love to see another Black American in the White House. But people vote on accomplishments and track records.

[ForgedCrank]

74. I don't

think I can agree with that.
You and I may be fine with Harris, but it's not you and I we need to worry about. It's moderate and independent voters who sway elections, and Harris is somewhat unpopular among them. I could deceptively claim it's all misogynistic or racist, but it's not. There are a multitude of reasons. She doesn't really present well, and since she first tossed her name in the hat, the media have been on a full-time campaign to discredit and ruin her image. They have been quite effective at it unfortunately.
Harris would show well, but I do not believe she stands a chance against Trump. The media have done far too much damage to her name over 4 years. That result can also cost us dearly down-ballot to make matters even worse.
We need to quit entertaining this stuff and shore up the Biden/Harris combination as the incumbent. It's the only way in my opinion.

[hamsterjill]

14. I've not heard any press about Harris stepping in

I’ve found it interesting that those calling for Biden to step down are not specifically addressing who they want to replace him. And I think that’s a little suspect. Why wouldn’t Harris be the obvious choice?

I don’t think Biden should step aside. He’s my candidate and to replace him at this point will result in a loss to Trump. That’s my opinion. Harris has not been visible enough during the last four years to be a strong candidate. Oh, and I got a post hidden yesterday for saying this. So that is interesting to me, too.

I’m here to support our candidate and that candidate is Joe Biden.

[LeftInTX]

17. There is a Pro-Kamala google doc that is circulating among stakeholders and donors.

I really like Kamala and I don't think it is a good idea to do this to her.
People are going back and forth on her "electability".
However, that's a stupid reason to dump Biden .

[hamsterjill]

25. I like her and think she's a smart and savvy attorney.

But I don’t believe she has done much in this administration to distinguish herself. That may or may not be her fault as the administration may have decided what her role was. But I do not see her as a viable candidate against Trump. Got a post hidden yesterday for basically saying that, so we will see about this one.

I don’t see a viable path forward for Democrats if we lose Biden. I feel that this is all stupid and it makes us look like we don’t have our ducks in a row at a time when people are looking for a candidate who has a plan. Biden is the nominee and I will stand by him until I am denied the choice to vote for him. I am suspicious of the claims to have him step down, and frankly, suspicious of some of what I’m seeing on DU regarding that.

Four more years!!!!

[AZProgressive]

31. I was just answering the question in the OP

as far as campaign cash. I don't come to this site much anymore but felt like logging in to answer the question from the OP.

My registered Independent mom who also lives in Arizona can't bring herself to vote for Biden mostly because of Netanyahu (off topic but he is the same person that was suspicious of Obama because his middle name was Hussein and he also blamed Hitler on Muslims before October 7th) but she could bring herself to vote for Kamala Harris. She was impressed and so was I over how well she cleaned up after Biden's performance on CNN. She thinks based on her ability to speak that she is much more intelligent than either Trump or Biden.

Project 2025 scares me so I am a more likely vote for Biden than my mom but it wouldn't hurt to see improvements from the campaign whatever form that would take.

[hamsterjill]

44. Good to know.

But I don’t know that I feel like that would be the same generally with independent voters. I’m no expert. But I still think the strife going on right now reflects badly on Democrats. It continues to make us look as if we are not united and that we do not have our act together.

Honestly, I’ve had people comment negatively on how Kamala speaks. Mostly her tone. Not disparaging her, but those conversations have occurred in my circle of mostly Democratic friends.

If Biden is not the candidate, I will vote for whomever is. We cannot survive - let me repeat that for emphasis - we WILL not survive another four years of Trump.

[Think. Again.]

3. The people pushing for Biden to drop out or be replaced...

...want trump to win.

The dupes that think they're clever by saying it's a good idea for Dems are just being fooled by rightwing efforts.

Replacing Biden at this point is not a viable option and would forfeit the election.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

5. Couldn't agree with you more...

And while I know we Dems are not usually a "lock-step" group, this is a time we need to be united.

[Think. Again.]

6. I don't think being in lock-step against...

...losing our Democracy is bad thing anyway.

[Patton French]

18. That's just silly.

From another post citing NPR.

Called on Biden to step down (5):
Rep. Angie Craig (Minnesota) — July 6
Rep. Mike Quigley (Illinois) — July 5
Rep. Seth Moulton (Massachusetts) — July 4
Rep. Raúl Grijalva (Arizona) — July 3
Rep. Lloyd Doggett (Texas) — July 2

Expressed concern (7):
Expand Gov. Maura Healey (Massachusetts) — July 5
Expand Gov. Josh Green (Hawaii) — July 4
Expand Rep. Scott Peters (California) — July 4
Expand Rep. Jared Huffman (California) — July 4
Expand Rep. Marie Gluesenkamp Perez (D-Wash.) — July 2
Expand Rep. Jared Golden (Maine) — July 2
Expand Rep. Jim Clyburn (South Carolina) — June 30

Misguided though they may be, these democrats do not support Trump. That’s insulting.

I’m fully behind our President, but I understand that some good people and strong democrats have genuine concerns.

[Think. Again.]

36. Since replacing Biden at this point would drastically...

...weaken the ticket, I stand by my suspicion that anyone pushing to do that wants to drastically weaken the ticket.

[Patton French]

37. You do you

But to say everyone on that list wants to weaken President Biden is absolutely insulting to some very strong and committed democrats.

[Think. Again.]

38. Thank you, I will continue to "do me".

No other choice really.

[hamsterjill]

45. Well, I'm doing me, too.

And you are spot on. There is something sinister taking place here and it is an organized, weaponized, plan - the reason of which is still unclear - but the end result will be that the ticket has been weakened and this will benefit Trump.

If you know that and I know that, then the Democratic strategists certainly know that. So things are not happening by chance.

I don’t want to see Trump in the White House again and I cannot imagine anyone not seeing how he benefits when Dems look disorganized and unprepared.

[Attilatheblond]

68. Yep. The force$ behind Trump are the real threat. They know he can't beat Biden on his own, he's damaged goods

It is the BIG DOLLAR fascists who want their puppet trump to win who are the problem and they are a global movement. Look around. They are mounting an all out blitz to beat Biden, whose great team has enacted policies that actually help real people. The fact that some DEMs got on board makes me consider, seriously, that some are being blackmailed like we are pretty sure happened with many GOP officials.

Putin hates Biden. Why would he not be using his intel against those who are easily manipulated? Russian Oligarchs hate Biden, why wouldn't they help? Global corporations, with no national alegiance, only support unfettered, unregulated capitalism, so long as they make the rules and rake in the money, no matter who they hurt. In this nation, they own media and can threaten office holders with impunity.

It's not Trump against Biden, it is that VAST RIGHT WING conspiracy HRC mentioned way back when and the owned media ended run. They are tired of waiting to do their worst, and with our SCOTUS in their pocket now, they are pretty much out in the open. If Trump fails, if we win, the war will not be over. They will find another willing puppet for the next election. The public was waking up so now the media is trying to bury that woke business and put blinders back on those who will be most harmed when RW policies rule.

Buckle up, it's gonna be a long war.

[shrike3]

48. When there is an outside threat, Republicans circle the wagons and start shooting at the enemy.

Democrats circle the wagons and start shooting at each other.

[at140]

29. Agree with you!

President Biden has a record of winning elections. He has name recognition, campaign cash and everyone who wants to work has a job.

[Goodheart]

52. That's absurd.

[Think. Again.]

53. It's absurd for a Dem to publicly denounce the worthiness of the Dem candidate...

...at this stage of an extremely important election.

So absurd in fact, that motives must be questioned.

[Goodheart]

60. You didn't "question". You ASSERTED.

I find nothing true in your post.

[Think. Again.]

64. I respect your assertion that you question my post.

[Ferrets are Cool]

57. Bingo. If you want tfg as President, switch candidates now.

[LeftInTX]

8. They're panicking and not using their heads

They're chasing polls, hair on fire, shooting themselves in the foot etc.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

10. That's also an important point

There were many instances, when I was a caregiver and also when I was a lab tech in a hospital, where panic on my part could have been disastrous. We have to look at this situation as rationally and calmly as we can.

[LeftInTX]

15. Absolutely agree

Some of these people are mega-donors.
Gotta wonder what would have happened if they would have pulled out of the stock market during bad times?

Trump is sitting pretty while the Dems are running around like a bunch of Barney Fife's shooting themselves in the feet.

[Irish_Dem]

9. Because they are scared.

They are afraid of Trump coming to power.

I personally think Biden is our best bet.
I think switching candidates is quite risky at this point in time.

And I see no data which shows another candidate would do better.

I understand where other Democrats are coming from.
I try to talk to them and make the case for keeping Biden.
I don't insult them or call them names.

[LeftInTX]

16. They're panicking and it isn't productive.

Some have always wanted another candidate, but it isn't fair those who voted for Biden in the primary.

[Walleye]

11. It's hard to believe that I am part of the party that doesn't want to run a successful incumbent president for reelectio

Mostly because they are so sensitive to what the media is saying and the Republicans

[tanyev]

13. It's "interesting" that the prominent voices suggesting this never mention

Vice President Harris as the one who should become the nominee. They’re trying to do an end run around Biden and Harris and it completely subverts the primary election we just had.

[shrike3]

50. Some media dolt just did an op-ed as how the Dems have to replace Biden AND Harris.

Because both pose a danger to America. I can't imagine there won't be more of these. Appeasement always works this way. If you give them what they want, they want more.

[tanyev]

66. Honestly.

Funny how they’re calling for Biden to step down from the 2024 ticket, but not step down as president right now. If he’s too cognitively impaired to run—and I don’t for one second think he is, this is purely hypothetical—then he’s too impaired to act as president right now and VP Harris should be sworn in as president. With it being so close to the Democratic convention, President Harris and whoever she chose as VP would (should) then be the clear-cut choice for the 2024 ticket.

But I haven’t heard about any pundits or concerned prominent Democrats floating something like this.

[shrike3]

82. Somebody is already going there.

The New Yorker editor in chief said Joe's condition is a threat to the Republic. A staff writer said Kamala should 25th amendment him.

[pinkstarburst]

19. Also, who would volunteer to replace him? They wouldn't win and they would torpedo their chances

of ever being a viable presidential candidate again.

Joe is our candidate for 2024. We have to get behind him and stop this talk of switching candidates. Whether it was a good idea for him to run or not, he's running, and we can't go back a year and undo that decision. Changing course now will not improve our chances, so we need to shore up support behind Biden.

Also, any candidate who replaced Biden NOW on the ticket, 4 months from the election, would likely lose. Who is going to volunteer to do that and give up their one shot at running for president?

We have so many young, strong democratic leaders who will no doubt be running in a crowded field in 2028, Harris, Buttigieg Newsom and Whitmer surely among them. If any of them were to take this Hail Mary pass and lose (which they surely would), they would not realistically have another shot at being at the top of the ticket. That has to be something all the strongest candidates anyone is talking about replacing Biden are thinking about. They all have presidential aspirations, I'm sure.

[Deek1935]

20. Changing Candidates Now Equals Total Fucking Chaos and Political Self-Destruction, aka Being Monumentally Stupid

[Think. Again.]

39. 🏆

[BootinUp]

21. Its mostly emotional, which is why it is so hard to convince them otherwise. nt

[Lars39]

22. Republicans would sue in all the states to keep

the new candidate off the ballot. The cases would be tied up in the courts well past deadlines.

[shrike3]

24. Plus, the media would blame Democrats for the situation.

And Kamala would spend all her time defending the party's decisions, instead of talking about the decisions. Because no one would want to talk about the issues. Same show, different channel.

[Lars39]

28. Yes! Easily predictable if just thought through.

[shrike3]

23. Because they're engaging in magical thinking.

The pundit class will be after us with knives if we do it. They'll smell blood of a different kind. The ultimate Democrats in Disarray narrative.

[RainCaster]

26. It will make Putin happy

That's about all.

[Silent Type]

27. It's a Hail Mary.

[LonePirate]

32. Why do people think doing nothing will solve anything?

Biden's age has long been his #1 liability and we were at best tied and in some cases behind before the debate. Things have only significantly worsened in the minds of many Americans since then.

I'm going to strongly support our nominee whoever it is; but people are pulling the wool over their eyes if they don't think that debate weakened Biden in the eyes of many independents and moderates we need to vote for us. A different candidate like Harris removes that age penalty we are currently suffering. Yeah, it sucks people are judging Biden harshly due to his age. However that is the current reality we're facing now.

We're not Republicans. We should not become a cult worshipping a single candidate come hell or high water. We have a deep bench. We need to consider what is best for the country and our party. We should nominate the best candidate. If that is Biden, then fine. If it is someone else, that's fine, too.

[Think. Again.]

40. How is running our strongest chance at winning...

"doing nothing"?

[LonePirate]

42. There is widespread sentiment that Biden is not our strongest chance at winning. Otherwise, he would be ahead now.

There are a lot of different opinions out there. I think this site significantly underestimates how much the debate hurt Biden in the eyes of the general voting public.

[Think. Again.]

43. So are people just ignoring...

...that it would be logistically fatal to switch candidates now?

[LonePirate]

58. They see a fatally wounded candidate atop the ticket right now so someone else could not do worse.

Again, the debate decimated Biden's standing among a lot of voters outside of DU. It's tough to see that here.

[Think. Again.]

65. I have no faith in polls...

...but they seem to contradict your position.

[LonePirate]

69. He is behind in every single polling aggregator and has been dropping like a rock since the debate. Try again.

Which aggregator would you like me to send you? I know of five and all of them show him behind right now and in worse position since the debate.

538
Economist
Nate Silver
Vote Hub
RCP

[Think. Again.]

71. Ah yes, the "decimated" position, "dropping like a rock"...

..to 2.3 points behind trump.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/

[samnsara]

35. its the dumbest damn decision ever....

..even if Joe needs a bit of help once in awhile ( as we all do!) he surrounds himself with the BEST who can and will run this country if they are called so.

[Emile]

41. Bernie Sanders still supporting our Democratic President,

and so am I.

[Turbineguy]

54. It would solve trump's problem.

[Terry_M]

59. Someone on MTP Said It

If Biden stays, the media focus for the next 4 months will remain on his cognitive decline. Talk of policy and accomplishments will be dwarfed by scrutiny over whether his latest appearance shows any cognitive decline or not.

It doesn't matter if you want this, it doesn't matter at all if you think this is fair or not - that is what will happen - instead of focusing 100% on policy, economy, and accomplishments - half or more of the attention will REMAIN on cognitive decline related media ads and media conversations. That narrative will hinder turnout among those soft 'I don't vote in every election' voters.

[Music Man]

62. It may have been that other candidates could have been stronger, but we are where we are.

At this point, we're asking for a messy convention that leaves a new candidate with TWO AND A HALF MONTHS until election day.

There's simply no time to create a national infrastructure for someone else.

Let's say Harris is the nominee--she then has to quickly do a VP search, and who knows what that will look like. Does the name Thomas Eagleton ring a bell?

If any polls show Harris as stronger (and many of them don't), they don't show any significant difference. The best bet, truly, is to work our asses off, get surrogates out there, fundraise like hell, and find a way to get the narrative back to democracy, Trump's convictions, and Biden's good governance.

[Goodheart]

67. Wow. No "rats" in your post!

Thank you for the respectful post. That's how it's done.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

73. Thank you! That's very kind n/t

[ForgedCrank]

72. They are

scared, that's what it amounts to. It's not malicious (at least in my opinion), they are scared that Trump is going to get elected, and it's a valid fear. Their demand for this action, however, is neither reasonable or logical. Any change right now will do more damage than it will anything else.
Our best path forward is supporting Joe Biden and putting an end to all of this hair-on-fire stuff. The party must be unified, and it needs to be unwavering moving forward if we are going to even stand a chance.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

76. Dems attacking Biden are 'doing more damage' than the debate: analyst

I agree with the OP. Only traitors to the party would support this move. These attacks on President Biden are very stupid and only helping TFG. Why are supposed Democrats working to re-elect TFG?

Link to tweet

https://www.rawstory.com/biden-debate-2668695029/

After stating Biden needs to get in front of voters more, she told the MSNBC hosts, "I would suggest that the response of that very small number of Democrats that have really come out after the president, and some of the media folks that have really come down on him since the election have done more damage and more harm than the president himself did during that debate."

"For me, and millions of Americans like me, this election is about the future of our country. It is about democracy, it is about getting away from the imperialistic, criminal presidency of Donald Trump and making sure that our children have a future that we can feel good about and be proud of," she explained.

She added, "It naive to think that at this point in the process you can switch candidates and still defeat Donald Trump. It is naive to think that the Democratic party will come out of a contested convention more united and stronger than they are today. "

"I think there is a lot more damage being done by folks other than Joe Biden when you look at how folks are reacting to this," she concluded.

[The Blue Flower]

78. I knew he was 81 when I voted for him in the primary

Are they thinking we'll have another nationwide primary? The MSM is trying to overthrow a primary election. I resent it deeply.

[Doodley]

79. I could give a detailed answer, based on a lot of discussions I've had with Democrats, Independents, and anti-Trump

conservatives.

[BobTheSubgenius]

81. If a candidate like President Biden cannot just run, but WIN with his track record and...

...the current state of the country, something is terribly wrong. Which we already knew. It would also look like a party in panic and disarray and maybe not worth voting for, whatever else the decision points might be.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

83. Here's some historical perspective on why you cannot change candidates at this late date

Link to tweet

[ibegurpard]

84. Magical thinking

And a total blindspot for media antagonism