Could those who still have concerns about President Biden's candidacy please tell us just what you still want to see.

[Deek1935]

If you still have concerns, or if someone you know does, or if you want to speculate on what you think someone with concerns about President Biden would like to see that they haven't already seen since the debate, can you please share your thoughts.

Since the debate Biden has has done numerous speeches and public events including some big rallies, interviews and talks with media that were completely unscripted, they have again released his medical records, and he has said time and again including in writing that he is not getting out. So please. I am honestly asking. What more do you need to see?

Here are main points for keeping Biden:

* Biden won the primaries with 87% of the vote. He is presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party.

* If others had a problem with him they could have run. We can't just invalidate those millions of votes.

* In the debate he had a cold and was fatigued and had a weak delivery but on substance he was actually better than The Orange Pathological Liar And Rapist who lied at least 50 times.

* The media bias and hit job has been alarming and sickening. Trump lied 50 times and it has been all about Biden. It is just shameful.

* There is no "White Knight Fantasy" new candidate, and no new candidate would have Biden's great record to run on. There is ZERO evidence that any other candidate would fair any better at all than Biden and there's lots of evidence that our chances would actually be worse. We would lose important predictive key factors without our incumbent President leading the ticket.

* A new primary would be chaotic, CONTESTED, and divisive. We would lose PREDICTIVE party unity and incumbency keys. It would almost certainly hand the election to Trump.

[chowder66]

1. 19 appearances since the debate which includes his NATO speech today.

The media is trying with zero evidence to create a Biden is in cognitive decline story. He's done 18 public events & appearances since the debate. In June, he was in France & Italy, 15 US states & did 21 public events. In May, he had 44 events & was in 16 states.

Link to tweet

...But he needs to do more!!! Fuck sleep and bathing. Just shows they are ignoring all of this. How much more have they ignored?

[LisaL]

2. A person half his age would have a difficult time keeping up this schedule.

Not a peep out of msm.

[chowder66]

3. They are ignoring his appearances and speeches just like they have ignored his record.

[sop]

79. And they're ignoring Trump.

[NoveltySocks]

6. I'm around half his age.

And I'm exhausted just looking at it. I've been worthless for days after international travel since my teens.

[LiberalFighter]

73. That was more comprehensive than what I had.

One thing missing is the debate prep at Camp David.

[ret5hd]

4. some just want D's to lose.

[Tom Rinaldo]

5. The press conference he is scheduled to hold should go a long ways...

...toward resolving this, and reassuring those with remaining concerns. It will not be brief, it will be unscripted, and it won't be in front of a large gathering of his supporters. .

[Deek1935]

10. Good point. If he does ok in the presser hopefully, yes, that will go a long to stopping this nonsense.

[wnylib]

68. Your OP is inviting Biden objectors to continue posting

their objections on DU although Biden is our candidate and DU rules support Democratic candidates.

[ecstatic]

25. when will this be? nt

[Tom Rinaldo]

64. Tomorrow evening I believe, I could be wrong about the time. n/t

[johnnyplankton]

36. Let's hope he aces it. If not, then what?

[Tom Rinaldo]

63. Yes. It would be great for him to ace it.

If not, I guess a lot depends on how far short he fell from acing it Anything close to as poor of a performance as the debate was would renew calls for him to step down, and with good reason. In a worst case scenario appearance, I too would want him to stand aside for Harris.

[appmanga]

7. Now that Biden has made it clear he's not leaving...

...the real truth about the worries about his "age" are starting to ooze out: the fear of a Kamala Harris presidency. If Biden continues to have a good week along with a good presser on Thursday, and the press pretty much has to shut up about him, Harris is going to become the new negative story.

[Goodheart]

8. No thanks. That right there is just an invitation to get a reply juried and banned

and the poster condemned.

[Deek1935]

9. Someone can say "I am 100% for Joe but here is what I think someone would say about what they still want to see."

[Goodheart]

12. Let's just say that runs very counter to actual experience.

[GusBob]

11. Yep

It’s like the Bernie-Hillary wars around here with alerts

[Stuckinthebush]

65. Alerts have gotten ridiculous

Many of us are just laying low until the storm passes. Right now we are in a "don't say anything" period at DU. It'll pass and then we can all get back to normal.

[musicblind]

87. i cannot believe some of the alerts i've had to evaluate.

its best to just not post anything for next week. everything anyone says is being taken the wrong way by both sides.

[Celerity]

20. Absolutely. To paraphrase Pete from the debates in 2020; I may not be a master fisher, but I know bait when I see it.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

13. Out of curiosity, what evidence is there that other candidates would do worse?

[dsc]

16. with the exception of Harris

they wouldn't have access to Biden's campaign infrastructure nor the money he has raised. That alone means they would likely do worse. Add in the elderly voters who will be reminded of their relatives trying to take their car keys away and the black women who will be reminded of every time they got passed over by some young white dude when it came time for a promotion and I can't see how anyone else wouldn't be doing worse.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

21. With respect...

... a lot of that is a hypothesis about what would happen, and two of those three wouldn't be a problem if Harris is the nominee.

The OP said there's evidence. I'm curious what they mean by that.

[farmboy]

14. My response, while declining your invitation to keep this going.

Postings like this just keep the antagonism going. I hate bullies. There is no bully worse than the disgrace that is TFG. But continually berating and bullying other Democrats who have a different opinion of how, in this moment, we can best beat Trump, given what has happened in the last 2 weeks, and already laying blame for an apparently possible loss to the Republicans, is not “moving forward.”
None of us caused the unexpected performance of the debate. It happened. It gave me a different view of President Biden, than I’d had before. I know his age. I know what to expect. That was less than I expected on a CRITICAL platform. Not many opportunities for side by side comparisons of the two and, while no question President Biden was vastly superior on truth, facts, and views, it was my first moment of seeing the definite limitations for him going into another four years.
My view of Trump hasn’t changed: he’s the devil incarnate. A pile of shit would make a better president. But I’m worried more about President Biden’s health, stamina, and ability to make the case for himself than I ever was before that performance or some of his interviews since. And also how he’ll hold up for four more years of governing.

WE CAN NOT LOSE. That is the truth. I’ll proudly vote for Biden, but I’m less than convinced our odds are best with the current match up. I hope to all that is good that I am wrong. I could get into specifics like you asked, but I decline. I am giving the President my full support. But stop with the “holier than thou” attitude. My concerns arose because of what I saw. I choose to believe my eyes instead of doing the opposite, as Republicans always seem to advise.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

22. Clearly, that person meant it in the sense of "we must not lose".

[BlueCheeseAgain]

24. Obviously I don't.

But given all of the context around that sentence, it is clear to me that that person meant "we cannot lose" as meaning "we must not lose", rather than "we will not lose".

Perhaps that person can clear it up, if they care to worry about such a tiny matter.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

29. It's not mind reading-- it's just reading comprehension.

I also don't know why you decided to pick a fight first with the person who wrote the comment, and now with me. It doesn't seem like a productive use of time.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

34. That's mind reading.

Reading somebody's plainly written words and understanding their meaning is quite another thing altogether. I also just don't understand the immediate hostility.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

38. I'm fine with people not liking me, especially online.

What I don't understand is people who go around emanating hostility for no reason. Your response at the very beginning of this thread, to that other person, was immediately hostile and insulting. They did nothing to you, and yet that was your response.

When I suggested a different interpretation of what that person meant, you did the same with me.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

43. You seem like you could use a little more happiness in your life, honestly.

I genuinely hope you find it. Carrying around this much negative hair-trigger aggression is not healthy.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

47. You're right. I don't know much about you.

Certainly not enough to explode with anger or hostility at you. So I won't, and will wish you a good night.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

49. Did you see what the other person wrote?

[BlueCheeseAgain]

46. I hope the following settles the question for you.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19128089

Please have a good night-- I mean that sincerely.

[farmboy]

41. Thank you, BlueCheese, for clarifying my meaning perfectly. WE MUST WIN. WE MUST DO EVERYTHING NOT TO LOSE.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. Reminds me of Churchill on WW ll

He said it is not enough that we do our best. We must do that which is necessary.

[Skittles]

18. THANK YOU

it is getting tiresome seeing how many people are being thrown under the bus.....YES WE KNOW TRUMP IS WORSE but that is a really fucking low bar indeed

[Deek1935]

31. Please address the "concerns" of those of us who know how horrendously disruptive and divisive trying to change

our presidential now would be. It would be a contested new primary and cause great disruption and disunity in the party.

And who would be the replacement? And how would it be guaranteed they'd be any better without the key predictive advantages of
incumbency and all that goes with it?

Naysayers are long on "concern" but woefully short on specific solutions that wouldn't come with extreme risks of their own.

[Skittles]

42. yes I get it

but you cannot expect everyone to live in absolute fucking denial

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. We're DU stalwarts

A negative outcome would not shock me but while I would be sorely disappointed I won't be surprised.

[Stuckinthebush]

66. This

Thanks, Skittles. Sigh. We've seen this play before.

[Deek1935]

27. It's not "bullying" or "holier than thou" to ask those with "concerns" to give us their SPECIFIC SOLUTIONS.

Thanks for supporting Biden if even with "concerns."

Sorry, but it is not me or anyone else supporting Biden wholeheartedly that is keeping this going. It is the biased incessant hit-job media and those who keep saying he should drop out but completely fail to address all the issues and pitfalls that go with it. Some are acting as if there is some super hero candidate magical fantasy candidate out there that is going to come flying down from the heavens to save the day and that will be better without the record to run on and the advantages of incumbency.

Sorry but I think it is just terrible. It was one bad debate. And it has been blown up into sheer media-driven hysteria.

Naysayers fail to address the guaranteed chaos and division it would sow in the party as they ask millions of Dem primary voters to invalidate their votes, and the deep division of a new and sudden contested primary. And the problem of ballot deadlines, finances, etc. etc.

Sorry, but it is not enough to have "concerns" and offer ZERO specifics on how a new candidate could be brought in without causing horrendous party disunity and disruption.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

33. Millions of Dem voters chose Biden more or less by default.

The idea that Dem primary voters prefer Biden over other serious candidates like Harris and others-- especially in light of the debate-- hasn't been tested.

I'm not saying I support it, but if Biden announced he was stepping down and threw his support to Harris, I think the party would be able to unify around her without much strife.

[Skittles]

44. thank you

I voted against Trump last time and I will be doing the same next election.

[summer_in_TX]

57. I'm a fan of Kamala Harris's.

But given that Trump is a vile racist, misogynistic BULLY, I have no doubt that he would unleash a tsunami of personal attack and innuendo against her. He wants to run against her. The only person he fears running against is Joe Biden. Why else would he insist that House Republicans keep digging for dirt on Biden even when it falls apart? Also his tanking the immigration deal to keep Biden from a win is another indicator he fears Joe.

[Deek1935]

72. It would be total chaos if he got out now, and ANY DEM could have RUN in the primary. They didn't. Case closed.

[farmboy]

52. There you go again, asking for a discussion of what might have been...

before the Democratic Party decision that President Biden will remain as our nominee. I will not further this discussion, but I will also not take blame for being honest about my reaction to recent events. I believe there was an alternative ticket that could have been successful or I wouldn’t have questioned it. If I explain it to you will you suddenly have an “ah ha” moment? No longer worth the discussion. 100% BIDEN. There will be time for “what if”s later, win or lose.

[Deek1935]

75. The party decided with the primary election.Your alternatives could have run. They didn't. Biden has made the decision.

[meadowlander]

58. It is bullying when it's been pointed out to you multiple times that people can't answer that question

on this forum without having their posts removed and or their accounts banned.

EarlG has made the official DU position clear that we're not allowed to suggest or discuss any potential candidate other than Joe Biden.

So what is the point of punching at people who you know perfectly well aren't allowed to actually respond to you with their honest opinions? The people who disagree with you (those of them who are still around) are prepared to continue participating on this forum within the guidelines EarlG has set out. What do you think you're accomplishing by trying to bait them into getting banned?

[H2O Man]

15. Him win.

That's easy enough to answer.

I support President Biden 100%. Yet I have concerns. Not to the extent of those who want him to step down. But obvious concerns.

[Bleacher Creature]

54. +1

[H2O Man]

61. Thanks.

I've been thinking about this OP/thread. Granted, I'm not the sharpest bulb on the information highway. But I think "concern" for the current dynamics in the presidential contest should be the rule at this time -- not an exception that causes others to look down their noses at us.

One of my many limitations is I see all of life in the context of boxing. I boxed many, many fights. Sparred thousands of rounds. Trained amateur and professional fighters. Served as a referee and judge.Wrote for boxing magazines. I remain friends with lots of old fighters, including a number of ex-world champions.

Not all of my fights were difficult. But many were. I was never "scared," but I had concerns while preparing for the tough opponents. I trained harder, and practiced self-discipline, physically and mentally. Sometimes that made tough fights look "easy" to those watching. Other times it was painful, because everyone gets hurt in the ring during tough fights. Yet winning those was far more satisfying than losing

Most fighters, after a loss, make excuses and blame others. I don't like that in boxing or politics. Of the few guys that beat me, those foolish enough to fight a re-match paid a price. I like to win. If that is a weakness, than I am very weak, indeed.

So I have concerns about this election. Not "fears," though. Just the level of concern that I think we all should be practicing the self-discipline required to make a tough fight look easy. I wish I saw more of that on the internet recently.

[Bleacher Creature]

89. That's a really great analogy.

And thanks for sharing your backstory. What an amazing experience.

I'm in the same boat as you. It's fine to suffer a setback if you learn from it and course correct. And I'm of course 100% all in this year. But that doesn't mean that I'm ok with just hunkering down and not trying to fix the problem. I'm also not ok with the knee jerk reaction to attack really good Democrats on a daily basis - people like Jamie Raskin, Adam Schiff, and Nancy Pelosi - by pretending that they are in on some vast conspiracy by the "elites."

[LiberalFighter]

19. Prior to that debate he was in France, then

In California I believe. Then to Italy before going to Camp David for debate prep. All in June.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

28. They want to see Town Halls; not reading speeches from a teleprompter or reciting memorized lines

Myself, I do not want to see town halls, I think they only open us up for attacks.

So, lots of speeches is what I want to see. Biden often delivers them extremely well.

[Deek1935]

32. OK it takes TIME to set up and do the town halls. And Biden has been doing a number of unscripted events.

[Think. Again.]

35. I'm sure anyone who isn't in a cult..

...could find many "concerns" about absolutely any candidate.

Perfection just doesn't exist.

So, let's move on and start asking questions instead about the latest trump/epstein evidence, or project25, or this lastest testimony about a trump ex-business partner doing human trafficking, or trump's standing in the international circles, or any of the other extremely serious reasons trump can not be allowed anywhere near the Oval Office again.

[Silent Type]

39. Positive movement in polls would be nice. Yeah, I know polls aren't predictive unless you like results.

[Deek1935]

69. Polls are not predictive because they are not predictive of the final outcome of an election 4 months away.

[Deek1935]

70. Polls polls polls ...the opinion poll rabbit hole. Too many people know nothing about real predictive factors.

[Silent Type]

74. I trust the science, especially with multiple polls.

[Deek1935]

76. Please tell that to "Presidents" Hillary, Dewey, Dukakis, and Romney. Especially "President" Hillary.

[LudwigPastorius]

53. I want to see him stop losing ground in the polls, and go up on Trump by double digits before November.

(I think that's probably what Schiff meant by "win overwhelmingly" )

[JI7]

55. I am concerned but don't blame him

And there will be concern with anyone else also

[Quixote1818]

56. I have only had posts supporting Biden but it's very scary that outside of DU, all my Democratic friends

and I mean ALL of them think he is too wounded to win and that almost any of the top 5 or 6 on the Democratic bench would do much better against Trump. I come here to get re-assurance but I worry we may be out of touch. Biden currently reminds me of my Dad about a year before he was in a wheelchair and three years before he died at 86.

[Deek1935]

71. Wounded by an endless media hitjob. It is just sickening! If they wanted a different candidate they had their chance

in the primary and they don't know how presidential elections really work. Polls and debates don't matter. Not one bit. Neither are predictive of the final outcome.

Joe is doing fine. Have you seen ALL his events over the last two weeks? The NATO speech? Anything?

[mainer]

82. True among my Dem friends too

No one I’ve spoken to is confident Biden can win. But they’re all afraid to be open about it. And those who are open (like Stephen King did on X) get attacked by other Dems.

[mainer]

83. True among my Dem friends, too

No one I’ve spoken to is confident Biden can win. But they’re all afraid to be open about it. And those who are open (like Stephen King did on X) get attacked by other Dems.

[cilla4progress]

59. Exquisite.

Thanks.

[mvd]

60. The only thing I feel "concern" related is that..

the debate wasn’t what I expected from the President. It was one bad debate, yes, but it played into people’s fears. That said, the debate doesn’t tell the story. Biden seems fully capable both before and after the debate. Biden has been a very good President and I don’t see any good evidence that him stepping down would improve our chances. I am ridin’ with Biden.

[ImNotGod]

62. they may see 4 more yrs of tRump if they keep that crap up. nt

[Deek1935]

78. But you are now saying disregard the primary voters, coronate Harris, do not allow any other candidates to try...

You are saying to just coronate Harris, who supports Biden, and not allow the voters to have a say if Biden stepped out? Really? Do you not think the voters would want a say?

How come if Biden was so old and people were so concerned they didn't run in the primary? ANY Dem could have run. A few tried and got beaten badly.

Also, the large majority of Americans did not watch the debate. Yes, Joe was tired and fatigued and had a cold and yes he is old and not as sharp as he once was. That doesn't mean he has dementia, or Alzheimers, or something like that. And look at all he has done SINCE the debate. Is anyone seeing all that?

[Deek1935]

81. YES we had a primary. Are you saying that no other Dems were allowed to run? ANYONE could have run.

[Deek1935]

84. Are you saying that Independents horrified by TRUMP will refuse to vote for Biden? Polls and pundits and debates are

not predictive of presidential elections. Never have been. Predictive factors are presidential GOVERNING while in office and certain structural factors such as INCUMBENCY.

If Biden is the nominee, in November they will choose Biden and his record and his sanity, or they will choose Trump and his record and his insanity. We have a much better chance with our incumbent candidate according to what is proven to actually predict the outcome of American presidential elections.

Changing now would mean a divisive contested primary, all kinds of other disruption and chaos, probably litigation around ballot access already being promised by the Trumpists, and just a total mess.

[mainer]

86. We all voted in the primary BEFORE we saw the debate

BEFORE we saw that disastrous performance. BEFORE we knew the full picture.
This is the only reason we're in this spot -- we DID NOT KNOW.

[sboatcar]

77. For me, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had

Biden's done a great job so far, in an ideal world I'd like to see someone a bit younger take the helm, but I also can't think of anyone who's got the power to take on Trump.

[mainer]

85. Why do you all make it more complicated than it is?

Biden already has a VP, who is prepared to step in. She polls better than him. She would excite both young and minority voters. She is capable and vigorous and young. She would automatically inherit the campaign funds. There need not be a mini-primary; she is already his anointed successor.

[PennRalphie]

88. I'm in a swing area. In a swing state.

You won’t like what I will say, but I am seeing it on the ground. Everyone watched the debate. We all thought Trump would be unhinged and act like a lunatic. That’s what many people told us we would see. So we watched waiting for the Trump train wreck. Unfortunately we didn’t see that. President Biden had a cold, the WH should have said that BEFORE the debate, not after.

People here aren’t paying attention to NATO speeches or rallies. Too many think what they saw is all they need to see.

Look. I still believe President Biden will win PA and the WH for another term. I want this to be a total blowout to put the other side in their place once and for all. How does the President reverse the debate? I really don’t know. Lots of Democrats around here want to see him in a totally unscripted town hall type thing. Perhaps in this swing state. President Biden is excellent with ordinary people. His handlers should tell him to stop going to the Hamptons and visit ordinary people in SW PA.

That’s my take. I know it won’t be popular, but I don’t live in a solid blue area. I want him to crush the republicans once and for all.

Just my opinion.