Want to guarantee a losses across the board this fall?

[Botany]

Get rid of the man doing the best job being President in my lifetime. This is an all
out press to remove Joe Biden because he and his team are so good that “they” are
scared of him, Vice President K-bomb, and the American people.

I’m ridding with Biden and I know that Roe-Vember is coming up too.

[Renew Deal]

1. Does he still have people's confidence?

Because another way to guarantee losses is if he doesn't.

[spooky3]

5. Is people's confidence affected by media bias? Nt

[Renew Deal]

8. There are many reasons.

And none that matter in the end. "We lost because they cheated" gains little sympathy and no power.

[spooky3]

17. Did I accuse Republicans of cheating? The point is that

The 24-7 media frenzy is creating the news and reactions to it, which is NOT their role. And we can do more than after-the-fact complaining—we can contact people in the media, our Senators and reps., etc., NOW, to tell them our concerns about this, rather than accept poll results or anecdotes as valid measures of “confidence.”

[58Sunliner]

21. WT...

[padah513]

34. There's at least one every post. It never fails

[StarryNite]

68. Yup, it's getting creepy.

[Ursus Rex]

33. That is the GOP's entire motivation the last couple of cycles.

It's apparently *tremendously* powerful for some people.

[johnnyplankton]

42. Does it matter? If we don't win we're fucked.

[spooky3]

49. Yes, it does; you can take steps now to combat it. nt

[jaxexpat]

45. It absolutely is affected. That's how propaganda works.

How many times can even a stalwart supporter hear the media well on the message "your candidate is a loser" before the level of support begins to erode?

[Emile]

6. Do you plan on voting for Biden?

[Renew Deal]

9. I will vote for the nominee.

Biden or otherwise

[Emile]

10. Well guess what, Biden is our nominee! There is no otherwise.

[Renew Deal]

13. Presumptive nominee

[Emile]

15. Tell that to the millions of Democrats who voted for him

in the primary. Are you wanting to do away with the primary and allow the rich decide who our candidate will be?

[FrankBooth]

18. Yes, apparently they are quite fine with that.

As are all the other idiots who want Biden to step down.

[aggiesal]

36. That's how I feel ...

If they nominate another candidate, then what was the purpose of the Primaries.
This would be the textbook definition of Disenfranchisement.

Everyone now trying to push Biden out, had their chance to speak up way before the primaries.

[Renew Deal]

51. The purpose is to nominate delegates.

People did not have real choices during the primary.

[aggiesal]

64. I don't remember seeing delegates on my ballot ...

Coming back to reality, we don't nominate delegates.
In California, voting for delegates, I believe are voted on in a separate private ballot.
You can run to be a delegate for any specific candidate.
Only the delegates from each state for the winning candidates, are invited to the convention.
If you've pledge to be a delegate for Biden, at the convention you vote for Biden.

[Renew Deal]

50. The primary was a formality at best.

People didn't really have choices, especially after Dean Philips dropped out on March 6 after only 19 states voted. Philips and Williamson both lost to Uncommitted.

There were around 15 million votes in the 2024 primary. There were around 35 million in the 2020 primary. So, most Democrats didn't vote in 2024.

Also, people voted for delegates to represent them at the convention. It is the delegates job to decide what the best ticket is to represent the Democratic Party.

The best path forward is for Biden to decide if he wants to stay and for the delegates to choose to affirm that decision if they think it gives us the best chance of winning.

[Progressive dog]

69. Of course it was because voters don' t walk away

from their sitting President who has done a great job. Biden gives us the only chance of winning.
It is not rational to not only kick Biden out without telling those who voted for him who you want to replace him with. He is not dead yet or even evicted.

[Butterflylady]

27. No, he's our nominee and that is the end of it.

[Renew Deal]

55. Not yet

That happens at the convention

[NBachers]

39. Here's where I jump off to another thread.

[shrike3]

41. He won the primaries and has all the delegates. He's the nominee.

[Bettie]

7. What the media says and what actual people say are

two entirely different things.

Some rich white people (mostly white) say that they aren't confident, but every person I've talked to who isn't a MAGAt is ready to vote for him.

Of course, he did dare to say he doesn't care what the rich think, so they're probably big-mad about that, since they tend to think they are the ONLY ones who matter.

[Renew Deal]

11. Is there a difference between ready and excited?

But that is beside the point that it is harder to predict how people will act if they aren't happy with their choices.

[Emile]

16. Are you happy with Biden being our nominee?

[Cosmocat]

28. If there was someone who the majority of people would have been happier with than Joe

he or she would have ran and won in the primary.

NO ONE will have universal support from the party,.

Meanwhile, Joe Biden has 3,896 of 3,940 delegates.

MOST of which would be hacked off if he was not the nominee.

All having him taken down would do would even further fracture the party.

People are getting played, just as they got played with Hillary, Kerry, Gore, Dean ...

Rs get 1,000% behind a crazed lunatic.

Ds get scared and run from good, competent and decent people.

Boo!

Guess. what?

Those who are flaking are reflectively are doing what they want you to do, shoot yourself in the head.

[shrike3]

30. Does it matter? As long as they show up, who the hell cares how excited they are?

[The Magistrate]

31. So Excite Yourself Till You're Ready

You're voting for an administration, you're voting to sustain Democracy against a deranged, would-be dictator, in an atmosphere of 'One man, One vote --- Once"

You're not picking a dream date....


"Politics is not the art of the possible. it consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable."

[misanthrope]

46. I was told I would go blind

if I continually excited myself until I was ready.

[Renew Deal]

52. I am sufficiently excited

Now I need around 80 million similarly excited friends.

[The Magistrate]

56. You Won't Get Them Attacking Mr. Biden

The common reaction will be this: if you cave in to the fucking New York Times, how will you stand up to China or Russia, or even Republicans? If you won't fight for yourself, why should anyone expect you to fight for them?

This isn't rocket surgery....

[Renew Deal]

58. That's an interesting point.

Is it worth appearing to not cave to the NY Times and still losing? This is not about ego. Your last question about fighting is the essential question, not just for Biden, but the entire Democratic party. We can't pretend that reality is different than what it is because we don't like it.

[The Magistrate]

60. 'Ego'? Jesus, But That's Both Obsolete, And Lame

Show you can be rolled, which is what replacing Mr. Biden will accomplish, and everyone expects you can be rolled again.

That's the reality.

That's what will happen.


"Past performance is the best predictor of future behavior."

[Renew Deal]

62. I don't think that's the way most people are looking at it.

I think most people are looking at it from a basic survival level along the lines of "Who gives us the best chance to win and who is electable?"

I don't fully disagree with your point. I just don't think it really applies to this case. If we were talking about something like a Bill Clinton situation, where the candidate is popular and has a good chance of winning, it would make sense.

Here's the question I'm having trouble answering. What are Bidens realistic chances of winning (from 0-100)? This is not about polling or 538 numbers. If it's 50-50, Biden has the same chance that every Democrat has in recent elections. If it's below 50%, how far below?

[The Magistrate]

63. And You Are Wrong

That is how it will be perceived among the public at large.

I don't care how insiders and donors and whatnots feel. They may indeed think Biden will be defeated. I care about what the mass audience will take from this spectacle. They won't go 'oh, great, they fixed that problem and turfed out their successful President, so now I'm all on board and eager to vote for --- who?'

[Renew Deal]

65. It might be perceived that way.

But does it matter if it works? I also agree that he's been successful. But this election is about the future, not the past. That's why I am asking about his chances of winning. If he gives the best chance to win, then he should be the candidate. And if he doesn't, in 2024 after a ceremonial primary with no competition, then we should assess what it means to pivot.

[DownriverDem]

29. Yes he does

The Dems went home over the July 4th break and fround out from their voters that they still support the Biden/Harris team.

[shrike3]

40. We know he doesn't have your confidence.

[niyad]

43. sighhhhhh. . .

[Qutzupalotl]

2. *riding

[Botany]

4. Thanx

Botany =

[Wednesdays]

20. It's still not fixed.

I looks as though you want to be ridding yourself of Biden.

[no_hypocrisy]

3. Reverse psychology

Republicans are partially getting Democrats to do their plan to steal the election.

[Deek1935]

12. God damn fucking right!

[Johonny]

14. Its pure agism

Joe is 81 acting like an 81 year old man. The expectations are he be 45. I'll take age and wisdom.

[republianmushroom]

19. Agree

[58Sunliner]

22. I agree completely.

Some people seem to have not thought this through and what the end result could well be.

[GreenWave]

23. Excellent "planting" of the seed of thought Botany!

[ffr]

24. The man who saved millions of Americas from death as soon as he took office.

The guy who's defied pundits forecasts by turning the economy around, creating millions of good paying jobs, and rebuilding America, not to mention all of the other wonky day-to-day stuff that he's accomplished to Make America Truly Great Again!

It's hard to find fault in that, especially when he's running against Donald poopy-pants aka Rapist Donald, a convicted felon and indicted co-conspirator against the United States! The media MUST control the News narrative or this November will be a complete blow-out!!!

[Blue Full Moon]

25. News sources

Are just spewing what their conservative CEOs and owners want. Some have foreigners as CEOs and owners trying to influence our elections and more. This should have never been allowed.

[FloridaBlues]

54. Unfortunately congressional Dems etc aren't helping in regards to media.

[Silent Type]

26. Yet, we are behind. If we weren't behind, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[DownriverDem]

32. Are we really behind?

Can you rely on the polls?

[BumRushDaShow]

35. Obama was "behind" the day before the 2012 election according to the "gold standard" Gallup

November 5, 2012
Romney 49%, Obama 48% in Gallup's Final Election Survey
Early voting so far breaks 49% for Obama and 48% for Romney
Gallup Editors

PRINCETON, NJ -- President Barack Obama and Republican challenger Mitt Romney are within one percentage point of each other in Gallup's final pre-election survey of likely voters, with Romney holding 49% of the vote, and Obama 48%. After removing the 3% of undecided voters from the results and allocating their support proportionally to the two major candidates, Gallup's final allocated estimate of the race is 50% for Romney and 49% for Obama.



The survey was conducted as part of Gallup Daily tracking Nov. 1-4.

(snip)

https://news.gallup.com/poll/158519/romney-obama-gallup-final-election-survey.aspx

But then we went through this argument a few months ago - https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218917590#post32

[Silent Type]

47. Would love to be 49 to 48. But we aren't.

[BumRushDaShow]

53. I pointed you to the subthread from the last time we argued about this

In 2016, Hillary Clinton was "WAY AHEAD in the polls" - all the way to near the end. And what was the result?

Anyone relying on "polls" does so at their own expense. GOTV.

[niyad]

44. Gov. Ann Richards was ahead in the polls on election day, and yet, chimpy

became governor.

[wryter2000]

37. Amen

History shows us not going with the incumbent president is a formula for losing. Alan Lichtman says the same thing.

I honestly wish Biden had looked better in that debate. He gives perfectly good speeches. But abandoning him will assure our loss.

[Texin]

38. I believe strongly that the corporate media are whipping this to get him off the ticket because they actually believe

that it would increase TSF's chance (and those of rethugs in down ballot races) winning. They media are now in the hands of corporations, and only a handful of those, at that. The media rely on ratings to drive revenues. It's all about their bottom line - and that includes corporate taxes being lowered, which will only happen if TSF is re-installed in the WH and his cronies in the Washington lower their tax rates. They are using that one lousy so-called debate to drive their narrative, and the stinkin' thing took place in damn June. June. There's never been a presidential debate scheduled so early before. Most folks don't even watch debates. For heaven's sake, people are taking themselves and their kids (if they have them) on vacation this time of year, sending them off to camp or vacation bible schools if they are so inclined. They are not paying attention to politics now and they've been skeptical of *polls* (also sponsored by corporate interest) for a pretty damned long time.

[Emile]

48. Ignoring the primary voters and see what happens

is not by any means a good winning strategy. This whole thing is sickening and it doesn't help seeing duer's spreading this propaganda.

[TheKentuckian]

66. Hand waiving the General Election voters will carry the day?

I'm one of those primary voters and I don't care which Democrat I vote for in November because the ONLY things that matter are a Democratic President and majorities in both houses.

Primary voters rolled with Dukakis but that didn't keep him from getting boat raced.

Pride and predilections don't buy much that has any value in the current environment. There is no next time.

[CrispyQ]

57. Fuck George Clooney.

I can do just fine never watching another Clooney movie in my life.

As for our dem politicians, I wrote to my senator, Senator Bennet (D-CO) who said he thinks we're heading toward a landslide win for Trump & all down ballot tickets. How the fuck is that helpful? I very nicely told him he & his fellow hand-wringers were making our GOTV efforts even more difficult & if he/they didn't have anything positive to say then STFU.

Oh, & maybe try channeling that Crockett/Newsom fighting spirit.

[Renew Deal]

59. We're not supposed to hate George Clooney?

I missed that one.

[MenloParque]

61. Agreed on all points but what is K bomb?

[Botany]

67. The Vice President

aka "The K-Bomb."

[LetMyPeopleVote]

70. President Biden needs to stay at the top of the ticket