An elections official weighs in on issues with candidate changes

[jmbar2]

Link to tweet

[LearnedHand]

1. Unrolled thread

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1811141516917887192.html

[jmbar2]

3. Thank you!

[Think. Again.]

2. Self-deleted, thanks for the thread!

[Silent Type]

4. Do your job, including making sure there are Democratic poll watchers everywhere.

Love my poll workers and election officials, but the job is to get ballots out, counted accurately, etc.

[Think. Again.]

6. Exactly why making that job impossible to do by switching candidates at this stage is wrong.

[Silent Type]

7. Um. Think they are supposed to adapt.

[Think. Again.]

9. So easy to say....

[Silent Type]

10. Well. Ballots have not been printed, names haven't been put in computer files, etc. anyway.

So, I’m not getting the problem for election officials. Probably punch a few buttons and it’s done.

Supposedly, the government worked out a solution for the one state that required candidates’ names before our convention.

[Think. Again.]

11. Yeah, that's right, just punch a few buttons and it's done. Yeah.

[Silent Type]

12. You don't think they have apps for ballots, computer apps for adding final candidate names, etc.

It’s a simple process to change names at this point. Once you do that, not much else needs changing for elections.

[Think. Again.]

14. Yep, easy-peazy, ayup.

[Silent Type]

17. Yes. And they had those capabilities decades ago. What do you think they have to do, hardwire

the systems, etc.?

[Think. Again.]

19. Right? Magic is a common and inexpensive office supply these days.

[Silent Type]

31. Two names is all that might change. They can continue doing their usual stuff and plug those in at the end. Democrats

could help the election officials by doing an earlier zoom convention.

[Think. Again.]

33. (You do know the OfficeDepot "Easy Button" isn't real, right?)

[Silent Type]

35. Tell me, what do you think is so difficult about changing two names. Besides trump hasn't named his VP yet.

These are simple changes. Everything else is exactly the same no matter what names are officially entered.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

37. I'm imagining some pre-Gutenburg hammer to chisel to stone thing.

[Silent Type]

38. Sounds like it. Then, they have to build boats to deliver the stones overseas to military, etc.

[RubyRose]

52. Technology to print names isn't the problem.

Several states have laws with deadlines and other requirements.

[Silent Type]

53. That's why I said we might have to do an earlier convention. Heck, they were planning one

because of Ohio. A zoom convention.

[Mister Ed]

55. Do they have apps that quickly settle lawsuits as well?

It's worth taking the time to actually read the thread we're discussing. It's concise and to-the-point.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1811141516917887192.html

An excerpt:

It is worth pointing out that even if Democrats follow the strictures of the law state-by-state, you would almost assuredly see lawsuits flying fast and often in any number of states, if they attempt to make a change.

Such lawsuits threaten to delay and derail County and Local Clerks’ efforts to program the election and prepare ballots, respectively. Essentially, efforts to prepare for the election would have to be put on hold.
That’s not a good thing in Election world.

[Silent Type]

60. Won't get far if the candidates are officially certified by the convention.

[Mister Ed]

61. That's good to know, because the Heritage Foundation has vowed lawsuits everywhere.

It's quite a relief to know that their vast monetary resources and legal resources won't help them gum up the works in any of the states.

[Silent Type]

62. As we found with trump in Colorado and Biden in Ohio, it's difficult to keep a major candidate off the ballot on

a technicality.

[edisdead]

59. Are you serious?

Yeah over the years we haven’t seen issues with ballots…. Without changes preceding the election.

It is jist ONE more reason why this is a bad idea.

[Amaryllis]

15. REad the unrolled thread in first post. It is complex and not even possible to do in the remaining time.

[Silent Type]

16. Sounds like some folks are going to have to work round the clock. And, Democrats might need to

move their convention early, even if remote. They were planning a remote convention anyway before Ohio legislators came to rescue. Wonder who thought the late convention was smart?

[shrike3]

21. So one's fondest wish can come true, right?

[Silent Type]

36. Just don't think "we can't handle the admin work" is the best message to get Democrats elected.

[shrike3]

58. Huh?

[LiberalFighter]

39. It is not that easy.

There is a separate ballot for each precinct. There might be multiple precincts in each polling place. There may be paper ballots for provisional voters based on their precinct.

If paper ballots they need to determine how many for the printer to print.

[Silent Type]

40. So, what, they have to print ballots at last minute every election. They already know

how many ballots they are going to print and they have these things call computers and election systems that will handle that, with checks and balances, by inputting the new names in a few places, like they do every election.

Best, trump hasn’t even announced his VP kiss up.

[LiberalFighter]

44. They don't print one set of ballots for the whole county.

In my county there are over 300 precincts. The ballot for each precinct is different from other precincts.

And it includes other offices. The order for the names of candidates may be different.

They don't just simply input the names in a few places. Here in Indiana elections are held every three years. Depending on the year there are also municipal, county, school board, state wide offices, and state legislative positions that could be on the ballot.

Wisconsin has more than two elections in some of their election years.

Some cases there may not be a contested primary position and won't be on the ballot.

[Silent Type]

45. Look, nowadays, this is just pressing a few buttons. Even my rube red State handles this stuff

[LiberalFighter]

51. You would be wrong.

Even with electronic voting machines it would require a lot of work.

Each machine would need to be programmed for just a single precinct or multiple precincts. Each polling place would have specific precinct(s) that would be different from other polling places. Not every precinct would have the same office on the ballot. Some are staggered years.

Machines with multiple precincts would have an election official select the ballot based on the card given them as determined by the clerk. In my county there are a few polling places with about six precincts.

[Think. Again.]

5. Not to mention we would most likely be running a candidate...

...that has no staff, no funding, no preparation, barely any name recognition for the general public, no prior vetting, did not get voted on in any primary, and most importantly, is not an incumbent.

[LisaL]

8. And who starts right of the bat with

upset base because the candidate they voted for in the primaries was forced out.
My guess is a lot of these people aren't even going to bother to vote.

[LeftInTX]

13. She is absolutely correct!

[BlueCheeseAgain]

18. This is not true.

Whether you support Biden or not, it is absolutely not the case that it is too late to change candidates.

The Democratic Party doesn't decide its nominee until the convention (or this year, in a roll call just beforehand). Whoever is nominated will be on the ballot. Same with the Republicans.

Even in this thread, this person acknowledges that in her state (Michigan), there's no problem. Then she says, "my cursory understanding of other states is that that ..." In other words, she doesn't know.

I don't know why this false information persists. It simply defies common sense. If we didn't have a presumptive nominee before the convention, as has happened before, would we just forfeit the election by default? Of course not.

This is misinformation, plain and simple.

[jmbar2]

20. Who am I to argue with the honest views of an election official?

[BlueCheeseAgain]

23. I apologize if I came off strong.

I didn't mean to go after you-- I'm more frustrated at the elections official whose tweet went viral. Sorry about that.

[shrike3]

22. Oh, goody. Now we're accusing an actual election official of misinformation.

Ma

[BlueCheeseAgain]

24. Well, she's mistaken.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/07/05/could-my-state-get-new-presidential-candidate-ballot/74307108007/

[shrike3]

25. Oh my goodness. Please write to her and tell her she doesn't know a g-d thing.

Let's see;

But if one of them were to drop out and/or a different candidate was nominated at the convention, that person instead would be placed on the general election ballot. One way this could happen is through an open convention, a process not used since 1968 where delegates pledged to a certain candidate could cast their votes for someone else. (Great. A shitshow as only the Democrats could dol it.)

But the timing of getting the candidate’s name on the ballot in every state could be tricky as ballots need to be printed and sent out, in some cases, as early as 45 days before Election Day. (Wow. Didn't she say that? It varies, by state.Howsabout that?)

The horror. The horror.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

26. Plenty of more prominent people have already said as much in reply or in quoting her Tweet.

If she doesn't respond to them, my own extra voice won't make a difference.

[shrike3]

28. Glad you know your voice won't make a difference.

ANd yeah. I'll believe a bunch of twitter noobs before someone who actually does this as part of her job. I mean, who needs expertise? It's the American way, right?

[BlueCheeseAgain]

29. She's a county elections official.

An important and admirable job, but she's not the one who decides who goes on the ballot in a state.

And if you read her thread, she says clearly that it's not an issue in her state, and doesn't claim to know that it's a problem in any other state.

Also, you don't have to believe me or Twitter noobs. There are plenty of news articles around that you can find if you want, in addition to the one I posted above. To take two more:

Ballotpedia: https://ballotpedia.org/State_laws_and_party_rules_on_replacing_a_presidential_nominee,_2024

Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/10/democrats-replace-biden-ballot-deadlines/

Should Biden bow out now — before he officially becomes the party’s nominee — legal experts say replacing him on the ballot would be relatively straightforward. The process would become significantly more complex and legally murky, however, were he to drop out once he has been officially nominated.

[shrike3]

30. The woman dissed by you and all the twitter noobs talked about lawsuits.

Which the Heritage Foundation has already said it will do. You and the Twitter noobs got that all worked out?

Still trust the professional. You don't, but oh well.

[BlueCheeseAgain]

34. She says this:

Hi there! 👋 Ingham County Clerk Barb Byrum, here. To all of those calling for a change of candidacy in the Presidential Race, please note that the election administration community is going to have some serious issues with that. 🧵

That doesn't make any reference to a time frame, and strongly implies (at least to me) that she thinks switching candidates right now will be a problem.

Later, she says:

My cursory understanding of other states is that that deadline may already have passed for some states, or may be in the VERY near future.

That is wrong. No deadline has passed for any state, and will not pass for a month. Unless she thinks a month is the "VERY near future".

A lot of people who want to keep Biden are using her thread to basically say "It's too late to change now". They're not saying "Once the convention happens, it's too late to change, so you'd better do it now." So it's clearly being misinterpreted.

The Heritage Foundation can do whatever it wants. It doesn't get to choose who the Democratic Party nominates at the convention.

[shrike3]

57. The Heritage Foundation gets to file lawsuits which make their way through the courts and gum up the process.

I mean, you can nominate all you want. But some judge will take those lawsuits. There is always a judge that will take those lawsuits. Have you been paying attention to all that TFG's lawyers have been doing to gum up the process. And they've done a great job of it, I'll give them that. You think Heritage Foundation's won't do the same? We can't hold our breaths until they stop and go away.

I've got to say, the Internet is quite a place. Rando noobs are considered experts over someone who's on the ground who's acting on the ground and doing their job. No wonder the country is so messed up.

[Kaleva]

56. We accused a sitting president, Trump,of putting out misinformation

[LiberalFighter]

43. What is the point of primaries if it doesn't determine the nominee?

The primaries also helps get the candidate better known to the voters. Starting before January. Instead of ten months a new person gets only about three months.

There are deadlines to be on the ballot. Ohio is one state. It requires August 7. Not sure if DNC has called a virtual meeting yet to have Biden the candidate. If Biden were to drop out it would be too late to submit the name when it wouldn't be known until the convention.

[LiberalFighter]

47. Did you read the whole post and what the Michigan election official had to say?

There are fifty one plus different state election laws. And the process of putting the ballots together is complicated.

[bucolic_frolic]

27. Our ticket should be called

the no-Hitler Party. Our ticket is not important. Defeating Trump is the only objective.

[Silent Type]

32. Like that name. Democrats d/b/a No-Hitler Party.

[former9thward]

41. BS

McGovern changed his VP after the convention, and no one had any problems with the ballots.

[jmbar2]

42. Have all the state procedures remained the same since then?

[Silent Type]

46. Hopefully, unless GOPer states, Democratic admins have updated this stuff to state of art.

I’m amazed how slick it is in my rube red locality and kinda turning blue state.

[LiberalFighter]

49. That convention was held in July.

[former9thward]

63. And?

The only state that has an early ballot deadline is OH. So a change can be voted on virtually as they plan to do with Biden.

[LiberalFighter]

64. Do you think the laws were the same then?

You brought up McGovern and the ballot deadline wouldn't impact that election when the convention was held in July

[former9thward]

65. This topic has been covered in many, many newspaper articles.

So yes. I do not know of any laws that would prevent it.

[LiberalFighter]

66. You don't seem to stay on topic

[former9thward]

68. Well when someone doesn't like the answers I can see they would think that.

What law prevents a new Democratic candidate for president from being put on the ballots? Especially now since Biden himself is not the official nominee.

[LiberalFighter]

48. That convention was held in July

And state laws were different for submitting names to be on the ballot.

[Ms. Toad]

50. There are only issues if the candidate is changed AFTER the convention.

Until the convention (whether held in person on the date originally announced, or by a remote nominating convention held in advance of the original date), there is no official Democratic nominee. That was the concern in Ohio - that the Democratic party could not place a candidate on the ballot until after the convention, which was AFTER the statutory deadline. All of the concerns that would have prevented the nominee named at the convention from being put on the ballot in every state were addressed quite a while ago. I believe Ohio was the last, and the legislation moving the ballot deadline to a date after the Democratic Convention was signed into law more than a month ago.

It is amazing how quickly everyone has forgotten the panic about Biden not being on the ballot in every state and shifted from "Oh, no! We can't name our candidate until after the ballot deadline!!!" to "If we switch from Biden to someone else now (more than a month before the convention) we won't be able to put the new candidate on the ballot."

[Kaleva]

54. Until the convention, we don't have an official candidate yet.

[Retrograde]

67. One state's timeline

(yeah, I'm bringing actual data to an internet discussion).

From the California Secretary of State's Office, some key dates:
Notice to Candidates (Presidential and Voter‐Nominated Candidates) August 24, 2024
Certified List of Candidates for the November 5, 2024, Election will be posted August 29, 2024
Voter Information Guide: Online Version Available September 6, 2024
Early Voting Starts October 7, 2024

So if looks like for at least one state the machinery starts rolling in mid August, and is set in stone by early September. It seems to me that a significant portion of the pundit class hasn't realized yet that the election does not begin and end on November 5: a large part of the country starts voting at least a month earlier.


The complete timeline can be found at https://www.sos.ca.gVoterInformationGuideOnlineVersionAvailableovelections/upcoming-elections/general-election-nov-5-2024/key-dates-deadlines