Why is it so hard to dispel disinformation on DU?

[WarGamer]

Kyles mom drove him across state lines, Trump Tower had a cyberlink to Alfa Bank in Moscow and Trump was hit by shards of glass during the shooting.

Re: the glass myth. Where did the glass come from? The sky? The teleprompters were quite intact AND they weren't in the line of fire anyways...

The screens were in front of Trump and the shots came from almost 90 degrees to the right of the podium.

These facts have been confirmed by a dozen posters on DU but the nonsense continues... sheesh.

[BlueWave1776]

1. .

I feel like the government needs a conspiracy class in society for some reason and if Trump wins they're going to decide it's the Democrats job to fill that position now. Ppl need to be careful.

[GaYellowDawg]

2. I'm not disputing anything you said

And I hate conspiratorial thinking. But how on earth did his ear get grazed by a bullet from that angle? I would think from that angle, a bullet could graze the front or back of his head, but how would it hit his ear without being a dead on shot?

[Fiendish Thingy]

8. It makes perfect sense

He was looking in the direction of the shooter, who was likely aiming at his head.

[MichMan]

3. People believe what they want to believe regardless of the facts

[anciano]

27. Exactly.

Thank you

[Bev54]

30. And people spout "facts" before the authorities confirm or deny

[JoseBalow]

59. Amen

[Blue Cape]

4. The glass "myth"

comes from a picture of freaking glass in his ear. And from a reporter that talked to SS in the aftermath. And the fact that you don't get that kind of injury from a rifle bullet. If a bullet "grazes" at 3000 ft per second, it isn't a nick.

[Ms. Toad]

11. And the chip out of the right teleprompter

And to the fact that all official versions I've seen say he was shot at (not shott).

I'm not saying he was hit by glass. But I'm also not saying he was hit by a bullet. I'm waiting for the assessment of those in a position to make it.

[WarGamer]

13. What chip? The pic is above.

[Ms. Toad]

15. Top right corner on the right teleprompter. n/t

[WarGamer]

16. it's 100% untouched.

It's mirror smooth, perfectly reflecting the red white and blue bunting and the cables on the ground.

https://prnt.sc/0cm_EB50-Mci

[Ms. Toad]

17. Thank you! n/t

[WarGamer]

18. and I'm sorry if I came across as a scold...

[Ms. Toad]

22. You didn't.

I looked at the teleprompters earlier today from the opposite side in another image, and had rejected that concept (absent another teleprompter, it source of glass). Then someone pointed this image out to me, and it appeared to be chipped. I didn't zoom in. I'm distracted today, so I didn't do the fact-checking I usually do.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

37. That's not a chip. Glass does not yield the way an earlobe does. It would have shattered it and crumbled

Probably made of tempered glass like automobile windows, which crumble into bean sized pellets instead of fracturing into sharp shards.

[Bev54]

31. Where are you getting your facts from?

[WarGamer]

32. you mean the photograph nad the map?

[Bev54]

34. No I mean the glass or the bullet graze other than you are looking at a picture

Is there another teleprompter that is not in the pic? Do they have the bullet that grazed him? I am not saying you are right or wrong but I am waiting to hear from the authorities when they have all information to release.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

35. Not seen or heard of such a picture. Please provide link. I deny your "graze" theory

If a hot bullet touches skin in passing, it doesn't blow up more than a few millimetres depth of flesh. There is no way for the kinetic energy to get converted into the massive heat energy needed when it is traversing a few millimetres.

I think you may be confusing hollow point or dum-dum ammunition in deep penetration with grazing. As in the exploding apples photographs.

Do the math. Think physics. You can do it.

3000 feet per second, nicking an outer ear lobe traverses about 1/4 inch at most. A fiftieth of a foot, 1/50 or 0.02 feet.

3000 feet per second is 1/3000 second per foot and 0.02 / 3000 is how long it traverses the earlobe, which is 6.67 microseconds. That is an incredibly brief amount of time. No time to transfer more than miniscule fraction of the energy of the bullet.

So, yes, it is only the physical (mechanical) abrasion from a graze.

[Celerity]

39. there was no glass in his ear (it is exposed cartilage), and the teleprompters were intact, just top with the CT

[Bernardo de La Paz]

41. Thank you for debunking the glass in ear by providing a photo. . . . nt

[Sympthsical]

5. It's a simple, frequently illustrated reason

And I do mean frequently illustrated.

People read the headline, get about two sentences in, then form a lasting understanding and opinion, and that is that.

When I enter a conversation on the Internet - any conversation anywhere - that involves comments or posts, I assume by default people replying haven't read all the available information or researched significantly to find additional information or perspectives.

My posture is now the onus is on other people to prove to me they studied.

Sometimes, in the case of some people I highly enjoy (even if I don't always agree), I see their name and assume they've read what's being discussed. They've earned up that reputation/credit with me.

But on average? Yeah. The first two sentences are what everyone's arguing about.

[RussBLib]

45. Even simpler

...is the fact that it is hard to "keep up" with every post on DU. Difficult to read them all. Harder still to read every comment on every thread.

And so it can be quite easy to miss something that could appear definitive to someone else, but not to you, yet. Much here is speculation. It is often hard to tell the diff between factual and speculation.

And then there is the tendency to believe something because of your own built-in predispositions and biases, and it becomes harder for the fact to get into your head.

I simply cannot do it. I cannot keep up considering the demands of "real life."

Well, it was a simple idea to start with.

https://russblib.blogspot.com/?m=1

[Sympthsical]

72. It's also just the nature of the space

There are times - and more times than I can count lately - where I see something I absolutely know is wrong. Full stop, objectively, factually, indisputably wrong. And wrong in such a way intended to push a viewpoint or narrative that is pleasing to political biases.

But I don't bother, because I know my correction will get targeted as a "right-wing talking point" and you take your chances.

So, why offer up a correction or clarification if it's just going to vanish and you're left closer to permanent silence?

There is something I keep seeing right now in multiple threads, all over the place, that I am just itching to say something about. But there is no chance it would remain. None.

So, the story being told spreads, gets internally reaffirmed over and over, and then it's like, "Why do all these people believe this objectively wrong thing?" Well. Because they want to and the space is designed to reinforce it.

Not much to be done for that.

[BlueYonder]

6. The "glass myth"

could be laid to rest if we could hear from the doctors who treated Trump. If maybe reporters in the media would actually do their job and request to talk with the doctors or see a medical report etc. instead of doing not but fawning over Trump right now and pushing a narrative about how political "rhetoric" needs to be toned down.

Is it disinformation to ask to hear from the doctors? To ask reporters to do their job?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

42. No, but it is up to the glass proponents to prove their contention. They are the ones propounding the myth. . nt

[BlueYonder]

50. Well then,

where are the doctors? Nothing can be proven about his wound without the doctors' observations.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

51. That lack of doctor observations doesn't stop the glass proponents from promulgating their myth. . . . nt

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

53. The doctors are bound by HIPAA

They can't comment unless Trump gives them the ok. And he has no obligation to do so.

[egduj]

7. There's really a weird movement not admit trump was shot.

Despite all the photographic and video evidence, and despite the original journalist who reported the glass falacy pulling their story because it was wrong.

[Glorfindel]

9. Perhaps it's because most DU'ers are ladies and gentlemen and reluctant

to contradict or correct their fellow DU'ers. Just a thought.

[elleng]

14. Good one.

[Celerity]

49. That's a bad habit when some DUers post false info, CT (FAR from limited to this Trump rally) + shit and/or RW sources.

I have spent the last 6 years debunking all of that.

I know it makes me disliked by some here, but that does not bother me in the slightest, as I am going to always go for actual truth and legit sources.

Plus, I walk the talk, as when I put up an OP a month and a half ago that turned out to be incorrect, I made another OP and apologised to the board, said I was wrong to put up the first OP, and said I would strive to do better. I owned it, unlike some here.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219001719

[Midwestern Democrat]

67. Sanctioning misinformation and even defamation is a rather curious definition of gentlemanly and ladylike behavior. NT

[pwb]

10. Thing is everything has not been reported yet.

If a bullet proof glass was set up it would shatter glass when hit.

[GreenWave]

12. Didn't the deceased get shot through the brain casing? It could be bone!!!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

19. Because wanting to believe certain things and make connections with the information one thinks one has is a very human

trait that doesn't depend on political views.

[Hugin]

20. Let's look at the real information here...

The information is that an untrained shooter on a rooftop many (A hundred? More?) yards from a target managed to kill one and seriously injure others in a few seconds. Possibly grazing the intended target. Using a weapon until recently reserved for use on a modern battlefield and is now commonly available without a license, liability insurance, or special permit.

If that’s not dystopian enough, I can’t help you.

[WarGamer]

21. agree except...

A video going around says the shooter was on the "Rifle Team" with his brother...

So at least some level of training.

To be honest... he didn't miss. Trump turned his head.

[ProfessorGAC]

24. Trained? By Movies?

I know Oswald hit Kennedy in the head, but trained shooters are taught to aim at center of mass, no?
The torso can't move enough merely by a slight turn to change the target line.
Seems more like a movie thing where the sniper aims at the head.
So, I can't get carried away with the "he had training" angle.

[Celerity]

62. Tell that to the SS sniper who took out Crooks within seconds with a head shot

[ProfessorGAC]

66. Riidiculous

Your comparing a kid to a professional sniper. The professional sniper takes the shot that's there.
You wasted your own time with that specious comparison.

[Celerity]

68. Not ridiculous at all, and your reply is not germane to mine. My reply was in answer to your own words, nothing more. I

did not make any comparisons between the 20yo and the SS sniper in my reply to you.

I was replying to this:

you said

Seems more like a movie thing where the sniper aims at the head.

Well, the SS sniper head shot was not a 'movie thing'.

That is all.

Nothing 'ridiculous' at all about my reply.

[Hugin]

28. Okay...

Can we settle on “minimal training”? The shooter knew how to load and fire the weapon accurately. He was also good at choosing a position. Both made vastly easier by the type of weapon used.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

43. Practice is not training. . . . nt

[Stinky The Clown]

44. "To be honest... he didn't miss. Trump turned his head"

I agree.

He was turning his head from one side to the other as he was speaking. One moment one way or the other and he would have taken a head shot.

[Abolishinist]

58. Reminds me of a grammy award-winning song from 1959...

What a diff'rence an inch made,
La dee da, la dee da da

[Niagara]

23. I'm not jumping to conclusions because there is still an ongoing investigation

I placed quite a few on ignore between last night and this morning due to the unproven claims that this event was "staged." Jumping to conclusions without proof and without knowing all the details is a conspiracy theory. In fact one OP was way inappropriate.


I realize that TSF is a compulsive lying narcissist with perhaps a few other issues thrown in the mix, but I would rather know facts than theorizations.


I've never been close to a teleprompter so I wouldn't know if one could have a piece missing off of it or not and I've never seen a gunshot graze on someone before. Hopefully I'll never see the later.


I also had to turn on the news last evening because there were an abundance of incoherent OP's without any context so I had no clue what happened.


I'm still waiting for the investigators to finish with their duties and maybe we can move forward to learn exactly what happened.

[Xolodno]

25. Why even care if it was glass that nicked him?

He was shot at, plain and simple, surprised it hasn't happened sooner. Glass or not, does not lessen what happened. I was lurker then (I think), but I remember members going ape shit in the first debate between Kerry and Bush and people were screaming that a bump in the back of Bush's jacket was some sort of device where Karl Rove could feed answers to Bush. Reality, he was just slouching and the jacket made a bit of a bump. When he stood upright, it was gone, despite being pointed out, some would not hear of it.

But one of my favorite quotes from Mythbusters "I reject reality and substitute my own". I'm guessing that "glass" somehow cheapens the assination attempt or maybe they are going for "it was a set up". We may laugh at things such as Obama's birth certificate hysteria, but DU is not without its own. The Dunning-Krueger effect happens here as well.

Funny, I know people who think the big bad government is doing all kinds of conspirator crap but at the same time, think the government is completely incompetent. Well, which is it? It can't be both. But for whatever reason, they think it makes them "smart".

[mysitcfairy]

29. I think DU members look at things

From every angle to analyze what really happened. The media is going to spin their story, MAGAts have their version of the truth. That’s why I joined DU a while back. I don’t post much but do enjoy the discussion and theories. I think we demand the truth and it will come out eventually.

[MichMan]

36. Is this what the posters claiming the incident was staged were doing?

Examining all the angles to determine what really happened?

How about those who continued to post that Rittenhouse's mother drove him to Kenosha even when it was disproved time and time again?

[mysitcfairy]

61. In the initial phase, yes.

Donald Trump has been and still is a modern day snake oil salesman. It would not have put it past him to fake an attack in order to gain sympathy.

[MichMan]

69. Was that before or after they examined it "From every angle to analyze what really happened" ? n/t

[H2O Man]

33. The glass bit

started when a reporter interviewed a woman who had been sitting behind the felon as he spoke. She attributed his bloody ear to glass being shattered by a bullet hitting the teleprompter. This was her thought, which initially appeared to make sense to those that heard her. but were unaware that it was not accurate. Hence, before checking, it was spread by others on the internet.

[bluestarone]

38. My biggest problem here (maybe i'm wrong)

Is why hasn't a Dr. made any comments yet? I mean i cannot remember a time that when something like this happens, there IS a DR. trying to speak to us about what happened.

[Nimble_Idea]

40. try harder I guess

good luck with that - use all your energy you can

[Polybius]

46. There were people here in 2020 that insisted that Trump never had Covid and instead faked it for sympathy

As if Walter Reed doctors were in on it too. Tin foil stuff.

[Wingus Dingus]

47. You're very invested in clearing up the myths that irritate Republicans.

You're clearly afraid that the record won't be set straight in their favor. That is fascinating.

[MichMan]

56. Clever way of proving the point presented in the OP

[Kingofalldems]

48. Bad things about Democratic Undeground.

[sop]

52. Truth is the first casualty of war.

Sometimes it seems like we're at war.

[dchill]

54. Does it have to have been glass?

Hopefully there will be a thorough investigation of bullet trajectories. Other people were hit by bullets.

[JoseBalow]

55. Some people always gotta be "right" and/or "first"

[Kaleva]

57. Some have an agenda

I've seen it many times where a person posts something and several others debunk it and provide sources. Sometime later in another thread about the subject, the person posts the very same thing despite knowing full well, because of the feedback received in the previous thread, that what they said wasn't factual or it was misleading.

[Raven123]

60. In the words of Bill Barr - it's like playing whack a mole

You can’t keep up with this stuff. Just goes to show how gullible we all can be.

[W_HAMILTON]

63. Because we have some very determined right-wing trolls intent on spreading disinformation around here.

But, Wargamer, you know better than anyone how I'm right there calling them out!

Wait, Rittenhouse? Alfa? Trump's nicked ear? THAT'S the """misinformation""" you are worried about?

LOL

If THIS is what you are posting about, I take it Biden must be doing well in the polls, huh?

LOL

[bigtree]

64. because most of what's posted about Trump and republicans is believable

...and most of us are citizens, not journalists.

We fricking believe what we want to believe - like we do when we cast our votes.

[Kali]

65. human nature, same as real life

don't stress about it. it is always like this an it will die down in a few days

[Kingofalldems]

70. Maybe you should alert on such posts--or better take this upstairs?

We don't have Meta anymore.

[Iris]

71. I think it comes from general distrust of media

If you feel like you can't trust media you look all over the place for news and information.