"He Wanted Violence. He got it."

[babylonsister]

Last edited Mon Jul 15, 2024, 01:52 PM - Edit history (1)

He Wanted Violence. He got it.
Sunday, July 14, 2024 at 1:21:34p EDT
RenaRF
Trump's persistent anger and incitement to violence is deliberate. It just backfired.


I tried to put this thought together yesterday in a short story, but with more time today, I really want to delve into how many times Trump has explicitly called for violence either as President or as a former President and Presidential candidate. The over-arching point is going to be this: when you call for violence, you get it — just not always in the way you wanted it. So let’s begin.

July 2017 — Trump encourages law enforcement to be rough/violent with potential offenders, opines at a rally (publicly) for police to "Please don't be too nice."
October 2018 — At a public rally, Trump praises violence committed against a reporter by then Rep. Greg Gianforte.
October 2019 — Trump asks if migrants can be “[shot] in the legs” and asks for a cost estimate for filling the water where migrants cross with alligators, among other things.
May 2020 — Trump posts on Twitter "when the looting starts, the shooting starts" in response to George Floyd protests.
June 2020 — Trump wants George Floyd protesters outside of the White House shot. "Can't you just shoot them? Just shoot them in the legs or something?"
August 2020 — Trump wants to send the National Guard into Portland OR to meet protestors with violent force.
September 2020 — During a Fox “News” interview, Trump praises the law enforcement extra-judicial killing of Michael Reinoehl in Portland, stating “there has to be retribution”.
September 2020 — Given the opportunity during the Presidential debate, Trump doubles down and tells extremist right wing groups to “stand back and stand by”.
January 2021 — Trump incites the J6 crowd to violence by stating "you'll never take back our country with weakness" after telling the crowd to go to the Capitol.
September 2023 — Trump states that General Mark Milley should be executed for a post-J6 phone call to reassure China, calling it “an act so egregious that, in times gone by, the punishment would have been DEATH” in a post on his failing social media platform.
October 2023 — In a speech to CA Republicans, Trump says “...If you rob a store, you can fully expect to be shot as you are leaving that store."
October 2023 — In the same speech as above, Trump mocks Paul Pelosi who was violently attacked a year prior, tacitly condoning the violence.
October 2023 — In one of his many mandatory courtroom appearances, Trump targets Tish James for violence stating “I don’t think the people of this country are going to stand for it … This is a disgrace. And you ought to go after this attorney general.”
January 2024 — Trump promises “big, big trouble” and “bedlam in this country” if the Federal case against him for plotting to overturn the 2020 election proceeds.
March 2024 — During an Ohio GOP campaign event, Trump says, “Now, if I don't get elected, it's going to be a bloodbath for the whole — that's going to be the least of it. It's going to be a bloodbath for the country. That will be the least of it.”
April 2024 — Trump suggests that there will be violence if he doesn’t win: “I think we’re going to win. And if we don’t win, you know, it depends. It always depends on the fairness of an election.”

snip//

Another thing that needs to be said is this: Trump, his sycophants and mindless MAGA followers are just FINE with violence being directed at “them”. “They” are:

Immigrants & Migrants
Anyone non-Christian of any citizenship status
Anyone who appears non-white
Anyone who identifies as or relates to those in the LGBTQIA+ community
Anyone who is for abortion rights
Anyone who wants to regulate assault weapons
Anyone who isn’t in the Qult
Anyone who doesn’t worship Trump

I’m sure the above list should be longer, but in short, anyone who isn’t walking around in a MAGA hat carrying big MAGA flags, etc. So… everyone else. Without glorifying yesterday’s events, I have to say: it’s… interesting to see them realize that their violent rhetoric — their preferred targets of violence (which is what they crave, violence against their “enemies”) — flipped against them yesterday. I’ll repeat: violent rhetoric is heard and you can’t control who hears it, how they take it, how/if they act on it, and who that violence will be aimed at. The irony is strong in this observation. They asked for it, they got it. It’s still wrong, it shouldn’t have happened, but it did and it’s their own language and rhetoric that caused it. Full stop.

more...

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/7/14/2254169/-He-Wanted-Violence-He-got-it

[Raven]

1. Kick!

[hueymahl]

2. This sounds awfully like someone is blaming the victim

and justifying violence against him.

Violence is never the answer.

[padah513]

5. Yeah the same victim who once said maybe the 2nd amendment people could act against Hillary Clinton

I didn't read anywhere where the poster justified violence against the victim. I am a firm believer that you reap what you sow. Sow corn you get corn. Sow peas you get peas. Trump sows violence. Make of that what you want.

[hueymahl]

8. If we were talking about a young woman

who was "dressed like a slut" was "dancing with all the boys" was "not speaking like a lady" would you say she "reaped what she sowed" if she was attacked?

[AZLD4Candidate]

18. Strawman

[happy feet]

43. But we're not

And that’s an insult to women attacked because of the passive act of dressing. Spewing violence is an aggressive act against others. But you knew that.

[MiHale]

47. We are not discussing that...stay on subject or move on, please.

[NH Ethylene]

63. Maybe.

If she was in the habit of encouraging men to rape women. And then to her surprise one of them raped her.

[fishwax]

71. no, but that's not comparable to what we're talking about here -- imagine instead that a guy buys a fireworks store

He wants to boost sales so that he can become the King of Fireworks. In order to boost sales he decides to allow customers to sample the fireworks right there in the store. (Maybe he'd even provide the punks to light them with.) And occasionally he'd light a firecracker and toss it in some random direction, or shoot bottle rockets against the walls and watch them ricochet.

And then imagine eventually someone aimed a bottle rocket in his direction and it hit him in the ear. Now, the person lighting and holding that bottle rocket would be the one responsible for lighting and firing that bottle rocket. But we still might say of the owner that offering free test samples of fireworks in the store was an unwise means to promote his business, and likely contributed to fostering an environment in which even his own ear was unsafe.

It would not be blaming the victim to point that out.

[duhneece]

23. Not justifying the shooting

But providing a bit of understanding.
That’s how I read the OP.

[Attilatheblond]

52. and this specific act of violence was done by a young person who has said to have been bullied for years

Maybe the Bully in Chief got the scare he has had coming for a very long time.

Horrible that an innocent bystander lost his life in the drama.

[FakeNoose]

55. When Chump was president he certainly was "Bully in Chief"

... but nowadays he's just the wannabe.

And we're going to make sure that he never will be again.

[PatrickforB]

77. Yes, this is called karma and is a universal law. One does in fact reap what one sows. Not always as fast

as the rest of us would like, but eventually every single person bears the full weight of their feelings, thoughts, words and deeds, either in this life or the next one.

Sadly, most people only learn through fate rather than actively changing themselves to generate good karma.

Oh, and last thing - none of you have to believe as I do or even agree with me. I'm not asking you to, merely telling you what I believe.

[GiqueCee]

6. Oh please...

... Trump is NOT the victim, his persistent violent rhetoric blew up in his face. He is an irredeemably evil man who has visited violence on literally thousands of people, usually by exhorting thugs already predisposed to violence, because, like all bullies, he is a coward. Unless, of course his victim is a woman... or an underage girl.
The author of the OP specifically stated that violence is abhorrent, but if one instigates it, sooner or later, it's going to blow back on them. That's an irrefutable fact of life, not an exercise in victim-blaming.

[GiqueCee]

13. Sounds like you just like to instigate arguments...

... by twisting the words of others into illogical pretzels.

[hueymahl]

14. Just pointing out hypocrisy

Last edited Mon Jul 15, 2024, 09:08 AM - Edit history (1)

One of my talents, unfortunately.

I hold us to higher standards and refuse to get down in the muck of lazy thinking and hate.

[AZLD4Candidate]

19. Hypocrisy.

Just helping with spelling. Arguments online go further if words are spelled correctly. Hypocrisy.

[hueymahl]

27. Fixed it

Thanks 😚

[GiqueCee]

20. Apparently...

... modesty is only one of your many virtues. I am done with this pointless exchange.

[Farmer-Rick]

30. It is NOT a dichotomy

It's not either you are advocating violence or victim blaming, or Pedo Trump got blowback from his own violent rhetoric. It's Not either or.

There is a lot of other possibilities between those 2 positions. When Pedo Trump uses stochastic terrorism there is no way to tell who the target will be. This time the target was himself.

It's not victim blaming or advocating violence to point out when Pedo Trump used stochastic terrorism to incite people to violence.

Should we just stop pointing out all of Pedo Trump's never ending faults, violent plans or obvious evil behavior? Does pointing out how he orchestrated 6 Jan a call to victim blame? No.

Pedo Trump may have been almost assassinated but that does not make him a saint.

[intheflow]

44. You're not holding us to higher standards.

You’re holding us to your standards, and demanding we walk in lockstep. It sounds very purist and unattainable, completely missing the point.

Actions have consequences, and speech is an action.
Karma is a bitch.
What goes around, comes around.
Etc.

[Lanius]

50. You're such a hero

[mamacita75]

70. Hypocrisy

but changing the subject is NOT a talent.

[babylonsister]

17. And it sounds like you're defending

the indefensible, specifically that lardass who has consistently instigated violence.

[PCIntern]

24. Violence occasionally is the answer...

An intruder enters your house at night and begins to attack a family member with a blunt instrument.

There’s one. I can think of a thousand more…

[AZLD4Candidate]

36. Nat Turner commited violence. I guess his slave revolt was wrong too.

I have little patience for absolutists, and I'm glad you do too.

[niyad]

32. Sooooooo. . .you have a problem with listing out all the hateful rhetoric he

spews??? Not EVEN the same as blaming a victim of sexual assault, and you know that. I find your both-siding this, using rape victims, very disturbing.

[AZLD4Candidate]

37. Strawmen arguments are fun to defeat, aren't they?

[niyad]

38. True. But annoying to have to do it before breakfast.

[AZLD4Candidate]

42. Agreed.

[Scrivener7]

45. Oh, please.

[RobinA]

65. Sometimes The Victim

is to blame.

[uponit7771]

74. Stop

[Gore1FL]

75. Justifying? I saw it as explaining.

To me the poster didn't imply that it should have happened, but rather presented the evidence of why it probably did.

[SamuelTheThird]

79. Was Mussolini a 'victim'?

Not at all saying there should be violence, but victim isn't quite the right word. Trump has been stoking violence for a long time, and tried to overthrow an election. He waited out Jan 6, seeing if Pence and Pelosi would get murdered. Noting that there are effects from causes isn't the same as justification.

[GenThePerservering]

80. Yeah, it is nt

[doc03]

3. But the MSM is using both sider meme nt

[samnsara]

4. this was inevitable and it wont be the last attempt..

...you can just feel it in the air..

[Timeflyer]

7. Agree. He gleefully spread the infection of violence for his personal advancement--it caught up with him.

[UTUSN]

11. K&R

[malaise]

12. Great OP

Rec

[twodogsbarking]

15. Yep.

[Emile]

16. Pumping his little fist in the air and saying fight

fight fight.

[wnylib]

56. And doing it while a dead man lay on the ground behind him

with his head blown off. Gloating that he survived, as if that made him a superior being when it was just luck.

[Emile]

57. He is a sick fuc..

[mainer]

21. I wonder if Trump is aware the ultra-right wants him dead?

So they can replace him with Mike Flynn?

Trump has got to be aware that his most dangerous enemies are the ones to his right.
If he chooses Flynn or Vance for his VP, he'd better watch his back.

[geardaddy]

62. I see a Night of the Long Knives coming

in the GQP

[Tesha]

22. And this is just an echo of what he posts

His written words are just as bad, if not worse.

I wonder if a study has tried to follow the effect of violent rhetoric used in propaganda to actions taken by people.
We know it, we can see it, it's in the news. And not just violence but depression - violence turned inward.

He's dangerous in my mind, and we have no law to stop him

[niyad]

25. KNR and bookmarking. Handy to have it all in one place.

[Wonder Why]

26. To lighten the disagreements here between members, is there anyone else

who is concerned about migrants crossing with alligators? No wonder so many alligators are in Florida.

October 2019 — Trump asks if migrants can be “[shot] in the legs” and asks for a cost estimate for filling the water where migrants cross with alligators, among other things.

😁😁

[claudette]

28. Not sure

he wanted it from a registered Republican

[ImNotGod]

29. There have been unsubstantiated reports that NORAD did warn tRump that karma was spotted flying over PA

[Farmer-Rick]

33. Exactly

Pedo Trump used stochastic terrorism which is notoriously unpredictable. This time karma showed him how it works.

[Docreed2003]

31. The right doesn't care

They literally believe that this happened because of vitriol from the left and that Trump did nothing to deserve the hate. We can't change people's minds who are that brainwashed

[AngryOldDem]

34. He sure did.

Which is why I’m getting a little tired of the pearl-clutching and the “let’s think of Donald” horseshit. The past nine years have been coming to this, with him leading the parade. Things just blew back in his face — he wasn’t ever expecting that the violent speech could be weaponized against HIM.

People are wondering if he’ll now change. LMFAO. No. Not one bit. He’s incapable. Thursday will be another call to ratchet up the hate, and Biden and the Left will be targets. Nothing ever changes with this asshole.

No sympathy for him.

[ChazInAz]

41. I feel about as much sympathy for him

As I do when I hear of some notorious thug/gangster getting his.
Of course, now we're going to be treated to his Beer Hall Putsch talk, probably a country & western version of the Horst Wessel Lied and waving The Bloody Banner. Probably going to be hawking tiny squares of his blood stained suit.

[calimary]

66. Right there with ya, ChazInAz.

[calimary]

67. Right there with ya, AngryOldDem!

Just call me ANOTHER angry old Dem, my friend.

[AntiFascist]

68. A great title for a book might be "Backfire" n/t

[Brachylagus]

35. Grim Reaper

It's an old story. Reap what you sow. Biblical.

[DownriverDem]

39. Now trump is going

to try nice. I vote the issues and against Project 2025.

[azureblue]

40. "live by violence ----"

And the kick is, it was a Republican that shot at him. A Republican that has been listening to violent Republican threats for years, a Republican who got mad at Trump, and all that rhetoric came home to roost. Reap what you sow.

It seems the shooter did not like the Epstein / Trump pedo ring, and decided that Trump had to go - at least, papers in him room support that. I see the media is glossing over both facts - 1- the shooter is a Republican, and 2 - the link to Trump's pedo pervs. Look at how the GOP / MAGAts came out screaming about "Biden did it!", it's a Democrat plot", "Let's go shoot some Democrats".
This is their violent, mindless screeds writ large, and Trump promoted it to the hilt. As they often say, "be careful what you wish for, because karma will come back and bite you."

[nowforever]

49. The media

Will the media report the facts you highlight, it does destroy the narrative that he was just crazy, will they have the courage to reveal a reality that is uncomfortable and unseemly. Thomas Matthew Crooks was described as an intelligent quiet person whom was relentlessly bullied in school. What would motivate this Republican to target the leader of his party? Could it be as you say his revulsion and reviling of Trump in regards to his alleged sexual abuse of children. Just prior to the 2016 election a young women dropped her federal lawsuit alleging Trump had sexual relations with her when she was 13. Will the media have the fortitude to examine these facts and finally expose Trump for who he really is, that is the question.

[wnylib]

59. I can find only one source of that claim

about Crooks and anger over Trump/Epstein. The source is Times Now and its affiliates, based in India. The claim is not verified by any sources.

[onecaliberal]

46. K&R

[littlemissmartypants]

48. Kick.❤️

[TBF]

51. The rhetoric is clear and will certainly be on full display this week at their convention -

as Donald uses this episode to play the martyr, while simultaneously pushing his fascist goals.

[Tertullian]

53. exactly

And I would add that the alleged shooter is a registered Republican, which is right in line with your point that the GOP is violent and their followers are also violent.

[brewens]

54. Every other jackwagon in the country has an assault rifle now. Ask the kids dad why he thought he needed one?

That might go a long way toward explaining the kid.

How many shootings have we had because kids could get their dad's gun? Or in one case it belonged to an uncle. If the kid would have had to have bought one, he might not have even had the money.

The kid that shot up the 4th of July parade was another. He hadn't worked for two years but had access to a car and money to buy an assault rifle. At that age, even when I was working, I couldn't afford an expensive rifle. The kid's dad was largely responsible for that one.

Why he decided to take a shot at Trump is still a mystery, I guess. I hope he told someone or left an explanation. It won't be because of anything democrats have been saying.

[AllaN01Bear]

58. women . 1 iota different. people of color . people on the forefront of change . the rs come after you.

not a new concept. from . my late mum.

[quakerboy]

60. this will be the excuse

If trump somehow takes office, this will be the excuse to start taking guns from those they feel undesirable. And the "pro gun" crowd will largely follow along and cheer.

[Richard D]

61. Matthew 26:52 (nt)

[ancianita]

64. NOW he's at the RNC today, like teflon. Their own political violence language & rhetoric will continue.

[IbogaProject]

69. i like leaders who don't get shot at

Especially when his security detail is made up of right wingers willing to risk it for him.

[fishwax]

72. if you plant ice, you're going to harvest wind

That quote (from "Franklin's Tower," by the Grateful Dead) has been my sig line here on DU for probably 15-20 years now. I don't remember why I first picked it, but it's come to mind a lot in the last couple of days.

[onecaliberal]

73. Recommend.

[timms139]

76. Trump says it's ok to shoot migrants in

the legs , I wonder if it would be ok to shoot fascist in the ear .

[Chuck_T]

78. good catalog of many things Trump has said to incite violence.