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[Doc Sportello]

1. It's ok as long as you give us data and more than anecdotal reasons

My granny said such and such isn't enough. Not for you or Schiff or whoever. We need solid reasons based on factual data. A hit-and-run statement by Schiff isn't near good enough.

Edit to add: we also need data showing who would replace him and data proving that person would win.

[brooklynite]

2. I recall reading a lot of opinions here that aren't based on data

[Aepps22]

6. Including Some of Yours

You are the same guy that was spouting Carville’s nonsense in 2022. When countered with data you doubled down.

[brooklynite]

12. No idea what you're talking about. But I sure you've kept good records and can remind me.

nb: if you're talking about polls and the "red wave", all I said was "polls, didn't predict a red wave, they predicted close races; pundits predicted a red wave because DATA shows that the midterm election after a new President have historically

I must say, I find it strange how much fixation some people here have with James Carville. I only know him from his involvement in American Bridge which has done solid work promoting Democratic Presidential and Senate candidates

[shrike3]

24. Carville has kind of demanded we pay attention.

Didn't he lead the charge to get donors to withhold money until Biden drops out?

Poor James. He's getting the attention he so desperately wants.

[brooklynite]

34. No, he didn't "lead the Charge" or "demand we pay attention"

He's been working to get Democrats elected since he left the Clinton campaign.

He has expressed his opinion about how Democrats can best win, and has shared it with donors. It's been reported only because Democrats worrying about Biden's electability is an actual thing.

[shrike3]

39. Well, clutch your wearing-a-halo friend James' hand and tell him he'll get his fondest wish very soon.

From the looks of it. The guy's been all over the TV bashing the incumbent president; oh, he doesn't want attention. No, no, no.

Tell all your very important and so much-smarter-than-all of-us friends that this shit needs to end. Tell them to shit or get off the pot; this is not helping. We're looking like fools.

[shrike3]

41. Hey, whatcha all think of the Black Caucus? And the support of the black community?

They don't count?

[Doc Sportello]

9. Do they apply to a top down replacement of the head of the ticket?

If not, then they are irrelevant to this discussion. You don't just boot the candidate off the ticket who got the votes of 14 million people with 87 percent of the vote. And when you say a lot of opinions here we can assume you are including yourself, right?

[brooklynite]

19. Here's the data that advocates of finding a new candidate are pointing to:

Biden's favorability level is lower than any winning candidate in recent history.

Battleground State polling has shown Biden at best tied or below Trump. Given the redistribution of electoral votes due to redistricting, it's estimated that Biden needs to beat Trump in the popular vote by 3 percent or more.

Biden needs a share of Independent and non-Trump Republicans to win by the needed margin, and they have expressed a desire to have an alternative candidate.

[shrike3]

25. Who? What's the plan? Still waiting.

[Doc Sportello]

30. You're assuming way too much to get rid of him

Of course you don't include polls that show a close race - one that is still six weeks away from Labor Day, much less election night. Do those polls also show there can be no change in those numbers? No. And what if he is replaced and we lose anyway? Are you and Schiff and the rest going to accept responsibility? I guarantee that is a no. And what about the 14 million reliable Democratic voters who chose Biden? Screw them? That's a guaranteed loss in November. Got any numbers showing another candidate would do better? Let's see links to those polls.

[brooklynite]

37. I;'m not assuming anything. I haven't said Biden should step aside.

I'm telling you what advocates of that policy are looking at.

As for "the election is close", I agree. The problem is that Biden's campaign team hasn't able to change the campaign dynamics so far.

[Doc Sportello]

42. Since you're just a spokesman for them

Can you tell us how and who they are going to replace him with. And what data show that another candidate will be guaranteed to win? Many on here have asked that question and gotten zilch as far as an answer.

[brooklynite]

43. Since I'm not advocating to replacing Biden, I have no idea who they think should replace him.

[shrike3]

44. How about actually telling them what Biden's done?

Nobody's thought of that? Couldn't believe my ears when I heard Himes say that no one knows what Biden's accomplished and that we can tell everybody what he's done once he's gone. Yeah, people are really going to believe that the guy we had to force out was a great president.

[Attilatheblond]

7. Yep, that's what the DU rules say

Waiting for some data before pushing the button

[jezebel321]

8. What about all the polls?

I agree my anecdotal data is meaningless, but the polls that do have meaning show Biden losing, and losing ALL the swing states. And now Virginia? Minnesota? Are all the polls wrong? All of them?

[hlthe2b]

23. Most recent 538.com polls show the opposite. (see I actually show proof of what I state):

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4775192-bidens-odds-best-since-may-in-new-538-model/
Biden’s odds best since May in new 538 model
by Nick Robertson - 07/16/24 2:12 PM ET

The 538 predictive model for the 2024 presidential election shows President Biden more likely to win than former President Trump — Biden’s best odds since May.

The model’s Tuesday update found Biden winning in 526 of 1,000 simulations, a positive showing for the president. The model’s update goes against other predictors and national polling averages — including those from The Hill/Decision Desk HQ — which have found Trump holding a slight lead.

The site’s model “puts a healthy amount of weight on non-polling factors such as economic growth and political indicators,” analytical director G. Elliott Morris explained. “Today these indicators suggest an outcome closer to a 3-point Biden win — clear in the opposite direction of national polls.”

“In effect, we are hedging our bets” in an attempt to account for polling biases and uncertainty amid the election cycle, Morris said.

Morris also cited a recent grouping of swing state polls that were good news for Biden, showing some recovery from a poor debate performance that has brought his candidacy into question.

Ron Klain, former White House chief of staff for the Biden administration, touted the 538 model’s update in a post to the social platform X.

“But I thought he had ‘no path’ according to donors and the electeds following the donors,” Klain wrote in the post, with a screenshot of the updated model attached.

[onandup]

3. Earl g has specifically said that is not allowed

Nt

[Think. Again.]

4. The political logistics behind switching out now will virtually guarantee a Democratic loss.

[MOMFUDSKI]

5. No.

Not on DU

[Mysterian]

10. plonk

[tanyev]

11. We have an incumbent with 4 years of accomplishments who sailed through the primary.

How is anyone who waltzes in now in a stronger position to beat Trump?

[Desert grandma]

13. Definitely disagree with you!

President Biden is probably the ONLY Democrat right now that can beat the Orange Felon. We are too close to the election and the President has been out in public in several forums and has done an amazing job. He has amassed a campaign war chest that can only be used by him or VP Harris. It comes down to this...a convicted felon and rapist that has a history of corrupt business practices or a decent, highly experienced, compassionate human being that has done a great job of running the country in the last 3.5 years. Which would you prefer???

[hlthe2b]

14. Posting your 'fears' without valid documentation nor a plan that takes into account the rules (and laws) associated with

making a midstream change AFTER the primaries and without showing proof that you have a candidate that can not only defeat Biden, but Trump in the Fall-- is to me nothing more than a whine session (and quite inappropriate) IMHO.

OTOH, If you have a mature and comprehensive well-thought-out plan, then I'm sure we are all ears to what you have to say on the matter.

But to accuse Biden of being "selfish" for not stepping aside when you cannot answer the previous is beyond the pale in my opinion.

[lees1975]

15. It's too late to pass the torch now. If that happens, Trump wins. Period.

There's no other possible outcome than that, which is why somewhere, somehow, whoever it is behind this is making damned sure it keeps surfacing.

I'm asking the OP a sincere question here. Do you want Trump to be President? And if not, then do you really understand the full implications of asking Biden to step down now?

[jezebel321]

18. I swear I do not want Trump. I will vote for Biden, Harris, any other Dem. Hell, I'd vote for a gerbil. But it looks to

Me that the implications of President Biden staying are a bloodbath

[shrike3]

22. Wait 'til the media gets their hands on Kamala or whomever.

Bloodbath will be too nice a word.

[lees1975]

28. The implications of him stepping down are having to live under a Nazi-style dictatorship, losing our individual rights,

our Constitutional democracy, constitution and the power of we, the people. Or worse, a bloodless coup that gives Putin our resources and military.

[Happy Hoosier]

16. This party is in the process of committing electoral suicide.

We are now in a position where it will be very hard to win. The carping of some of the left for Biden to withdraw because he's old, apparently, will impact turnout and enthusiam. And if they win? That will disenfranchise millions that actually voted for Biden as the nominee.

In short, we're fucked. Not becausde of Biden, but because of a bullshit narrative.

You wanna participate in that?

[shrike3]

20. I agree.

If the Dems chuck Biden and lose, it'll be on them. And we'll suffer for it.

[Doc Sportello]

36. It's not the left pushing him out

Bernie, AOC, Warren etc. all are solidly behind Biden. It's big money donors and Beltway insiders who are pushing this. Why don't you take them to task?

[shrike3]

17. You can try. I know what the TOS says.

You've got the talking points down pat, I'll tell you that.

[quickesst]

21. If Joe Biden loses this race..

...it won't be because of Joe Biden. It will be because of the refusal of support by those spineless democrats, now led by the recently spineless Adam Schiff, who will allow it to happen.

[realtruthflavor]

26. Yes! The Democratic Party is not a cult and everyone is welcome to put forward their point of view nt

[shrike3]

29. Read the TOS, given you're new here.

[realtruthflavor]

38. Is Adam Schiff not allowed to post here?

[50 Shades Of Blue]

27. I don't make the rules here. I just know I couldn't disagree more!

[lapfog_1]

31. I really thought that we have moved on from this. And yet today...

People don't even talk about the debate anymore... it's long in the past.

They don't even talk about Joe anymore after his presser at the NATO summit.

The media has moved on to the shooting and JD Vance and the idiots at the RNC.

Meanwhile Joe's polling numbers never dropped that much, and now they are climbing again.

If, after the election, say a year from now, if Joe is mentally not keeping it together, I think he will do whatever is right for the party and the nation. Right now, we are all back on board to Riden with Biden train. We now need to focus on beating the snot out of Vance / Trump and the rest of the MAGAts.

Schiff will get onboard the train again shortly.

[tanyev]

35. Yes. If at some point in the future he feels like he can't do it,

I trust Joe to do the right thing.

Trump, on the other hand…..

[LonePirate]

32. There are three acceptable subjects around here:

Positive posts about Democrats
Negative posts about Republicans
Posts about anything other than US politics so long as they don’t run afoul of the above two

Anything else should not be posted. We can play Monday morning quarterback on Wednesday, November 6.

[sky_masterson]

33. Its not

any mention gets you trashed here.

[Demsrule86]

40. Read TOS

[bigtree]

45. I can't wait until it's not.

...I don't come here to advocate against our incumbent president, and I resent having to wade through oppositon AFTER we've ALREADY VOTED for Joe Biden in this race.

As far as I'm concerned that poll does not represent the majority of Democratic voters, the results of the primary election is the true representation of the support he needs to advance out of the convention and to beat Trump.

No one else has that potential or even had one foot on the ground. This effort to drop him is sophistry and fantasy combined with anti-democratic fuckery.

I don't want a candidate that's an amalgamation ofwhat politicians choose FOR US.

CHOOSE FOR US.

YOU won't be making that choice, a handful of politicians will vote and decide. What a sham. Fuck the voters. Why hold primaries? Just cut to the politicians and let them choose for us like Britain? Who the fuck are we?