I support Biden and want him as our candidate. But..

[edhopper]

and this is just as an observer of what is happening internally in our Party.
I think there is an even chance Biden will be replaced as the candidate.
IF that happens, we MUST move forward and work our asses off to beat TSF.
Many of us will be angry, many of us will be frustrated. But ALL of us must come together and elect whoever is our candidate.
I saw a deep division in people who supported Hillary or Sanders hurt us in 2016.
I think the stakes are too high to let our animosity prevent us from winning.
These are very troubling times, and I a hoping we can stay together and win.

[Irish_Dem]

1. We have to face reality, something is going on.

And they won't t tell us what the H it is.

Yes I agree, we are at 50/50 probability as of today.

I am assuming they will enlighten us at the convention.

[wryter2000]

8. Oh, good grief

We're going to get all the way to the convention and change candidates THEN? It would be the biggest political mistake in history.

[Irish_Dem]

17. Unless they start telling us what is going on, this convention will make 1968 look

like a walk in the park.

[krawhitham]

24. What is going on is simple

They are trying to push the winner of the primary out because they think they can. They never wanted him, but they were afraid to say much during the primary because they knew they would lose. Now they see a window of opportunity and they are taking it while at the same time tanking any chance we have to win.

[Irish_Dem]

27. What is their motive?

[krawhitham]

45. To get rid of Joe, but they are too stupid to see that leads to a crushing lose

They never liked Joe, they started whining and complaining 4 years ago after the South Carolina primary. There was a full court press pushing against Joe until Buttigieg and Klobuchar endorsed Joe right before Super Tuesday and after that the rest of the Dems fell in line

[Irish_Dem]

46. Yes but why do they want to get rid of Joe?

What are their issues with Joe?

[whathehell]

56. You say "They never liked Joe"..

I'm not exactly sure who you mean by "they", but why do you think they didn't like him?...I'm not 'challenging' you, btw, I'm honestly interested, especially because of something I heard on MSNBC today that surprised me Thanks.

[Amaryllis]

91. What did you hear on MSNBC that surprised you?

[whathehell]

96. Someone said that certain people in the Obama

Administration "never liked him", meaning Joe Biden. We know that he and PBO were good friends and I couldn't imagine who in Barack's orbit wouldn't like him.

[Blaukraut]

70. Wouldn't it be a lot easier in that case to just let him lose?

Put all of their funds into the down ballot races and untether themselves from President Biden. Then in '28 start from scratch after people got another taste of Trump. Seems more logical than this nonsense.

[BlueTsunami2018]

81. There will be no '28 if we lose this.

We will be under permanent, minority, dictatorial rule.

Sure there will be an “election” like they have in Russia and Hungary but the outcome will be preordained just like those places.

This is for all the marbles right here. There is no tomorrow.

[Irish_Dem]

85. They don't want this plan for some reason.

They must think they have a road to election victory this year.
Plan B.

[FHRRK]

57. Ever meet a billionaire or multi-millionaire?

Most aren't any smarter than you or me. Some won the sperm lottery, some have some questionable ethics.

So, IMO, they are looking to exert their power and gain concessions, specifically the 2025 tax transfer of wealth on to the middle class. (AGAIN)

This has happened my entire life by using a very simple process.

1. repukes roll out a completely ridiculous tax proposal.
2. Leverage a few Dems to jump on board.
3. Dems end up negotiating from a weak starting point due to the media pushing the repuke narrative along with getting a few Dems to show up and parrot the RW talking points.

[Celerity]

73. They say it over, and people can choose to believe them or not.

The elected Congressional Democrats who have openly called for him to drop out say they are are terrified he very likely loses to Trump and takes the Senate and the House down with him.

Those are their words, not mine.

[GiqueCee]

93. And their words are based on what?

Let's just state the obvious: the self-serving opinions of big-money donors who don't want a penny of their wealth to benefit anyone but themselves, so they'd rather roll the dice with Trump and Project 2025. After all, who gives a shit about the little people? Besides Biden, that is.
This is NOT going to end well for anyone but Trump.

[Celerity]

95. I was speaking about elected Congressional Dems, but I wager the same could be said for the big money Democratic

donors as well. Again, those views are theirs, not mine.

One of the studies I have seen referenced is this (by bluelabs, a Democratic-aligned analytical firm)

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000190-be78-dd41-afb9-fefc35f00000&nname=playbook&nid=0000014f-1646-d88f-a1cf-5f46b7bd0000&nrid=0000014e-f0f5-dd93-ad7f-f8f50e980000&nlid=630318



snip





snip



snip

[GiqueCee]

97. Oh, I KNOW those words aren't yours!

I was just saying that the words of the top Dems are almost certainly influenced, if not exactly dictated, by those who hold the purse strings in this perverse and corrupted electoral system that was designed expressly for their benefit. In NO way was I casting aspersions on your reasoning.
I have just been so angry tonight that my usual attention to clarity may have been somewhat lacking. My apologies.
But damn, Celerity! You do some serious research! Gotta love it!
Have a good night.

[nancy1942]

83. Exactly who is "they"?

I really want to know.

[Irish_Dem]

88. Exactly.

We don't know who all the players are right now.

[GiqueCee]

99. Oh, c'mon...

... "THEY" are the shadowy mega donors who go to great lengths to conceal their identities. If you have to be told that, maybe you should catch up on your homework. ALL of these big-money donors play both ends against the middle all the time, and they have ZERO respect for our opinions on anything, no matter how well-informed we may be.And "THEY" don't give two shits about you. Or me. Or anyone that isn't as rich as they are.

[Diraven]

87. I think it's probably some big money donors

That never really supported Biden see their chance to cancel our actual voters' voices in favor of their favorite candidates.

[Walleye]

52. I guess it's one of those self-fulfilling prophecies

[Irish_Dem]

60. There is too much at stake right now.

Something is going on.
Something real and concrete.

[Walleye]

63. I've never seen anything like it

[Irish_Dem]

69. I agree. It is astounding.

Giving me 1968 vibes in terms of intensity.

The Dem convention is going to be interesting.

[Walleye]

80. Yes, but in 1968 18-year-olds didn't have the vote and there really was a reason for the demonstrations. Bloody war.

[Irish_Dem]

82. Yes but we at war now too.

The PutinGOP is waging war against this country and Americans.
Lives will be lost.
Our democracy is at stake.

[musicblind]

100. we must all work together

to make sure we do not see even a shadow of 1968 at this year's dnc.

NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, we must remember that we have more that unites us than divides us. We are the good guys.

[Rebl2]

78. Piss poor

timing on their part—right before the convention. This should have been done last fall if they didn’t want Biden to run again!

[Irish_Dem]

89. 100% certain the timing is deliberate.

They are dropping bread crumbs right up to the convention doors.

[shrike3]

74. Oh, it's going to be fun, isn't it?

[Irish_Dem]

75. Yes could be a blood bath.

ETA The leadership could make it easier by rolling out their plan before the convention.
Whatever it is.

[shrike3]

76. Yep. But we're only the base, right?

[Irish_Dem]

77. Yes. We do not appear to be part of the current algorithm.

[krawhitham]

21. Switching candidates at all would be the biggest political mistake in history.

[58Sunliner]

51. Hear hear.

[Think. Again.]

2. Why does all this remind of 2016?

[BComplex]

29. Because it has Putin and Netanyahu's fingerprints all over it.

That's why it looks so similar.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

101. Netanyahu's?

Interesting…

[Deek1935]

3. It would be political SUICIDE. We lose the INCUMBENCY and PARTY UNITY keys. We LOSE. It's SUICIDE!

[wryter2000]

5. Exactly

Who on Earth can put together a campaign for President with less than four months to go? With no organization and no money. It's ridiculous.

[Yorkie Mom]

10. I'm not saying this is the correct answer,

but we have a VP who is supposed to be ready to step up.

[wryter2000]

16. Does she get the hundred million or more the campaign has raised?

Not according to the Wall Street Journal.

Sure, go ahead and put together a whole organization with no money and run for president with less than four months. Pure idiocy.

[Pisces]

32. Where there's a will there's a way.

[wryter2000]

39. Utter nonsense

That's your best answer? Maybe she should start a Go Fund Me. That's the ticket.

[rso]

47. RSO

Actually, if it’s Kamala, she gets the money as it’s programmed for the Biden-Harris campaign.

[wryter2000]

71. Not now

According to the Wall Street Journal it can't go to her until after Biden is the nominee. And that would give her even less time to campaign.

[meadowlander]

53. Every other democratic country on Earth?

Election cycles in most countries are only three months long in the first place.

[krawhitham]

28. 100%

[shrike3]

4. Wonderful way to reward a president who got so much done.

What a bunch of peaches they all are.

[BComplex]

36. If they go through with this, and should we ever have another election as a result of a trump win,

then whomever is responsible for this needs to be out of power for good & forever.

Our problem is the democratic party is NOT afraid of their base the way the republicans are afraid of theirs. This might be the final game changer.

[shrike3]

40. If Trump wins, they will be out of power forever.

[BComplex]

67. That's what I know.

That's why I can't believe they're acting so unwisely.

[democrattotheend]

66. It's not fair, I agree

But unfortunately, most Americans don't seem to share our assessment that he's done a great job. And even if they did, many are concerned about whether he will be up to the job for another 4 years. I think the accusations of cognitive decline are nonsense, but there's no denying how much the past 4 years have aged him. The contrast between this debate and his debate with Paul Ryan in 2012 is shocking. Even the contrast between this debate and his debates with Trump 4 years ago are pretty stark. I can accept that it was a really bad night, but in his subsequent appearances, he has been much better than the debate but still seems like a shell of his former self.

I don't think he should be forced out, but I wish he had stuck with his original plan not to run in 2024.

[shrike3]

68. They don't know what he's done.

I see it all the time here in Camp Real World. "Joe Biden hasn't done a damn thing." I hear it all the time. I then fill them in, and the reaction is surprise, even incredulity. "He did all that?" They really have no idea. There was a news story done on a new Ford electric truck plant in Tennessee. Life-changing for a lot of people. Even the building of it has created tons of jobs. Do any of those folks know that the Biden administration got it all going by making sure Ford got the financing for the project? No. The article made that clear. Doesn't sound like the reporters enlightened the people, but that's neither here nor there. The media is only interested in the fact that Joe is old. They won't report the good stuff because it's not part of the narrative.

A lot of blame to go around for this. Part of the blame lies with Joe, and I don't know why he's not tooting his horn enough. Maybe it's his personality, self-effacing, maybe it's his generation: let your work speak for itself. These days, that doesn't cut it. It's definitely his people's fault. And the DNC, IMO. They should be sending out surrogates every day, talking about the accomplishments of this administration. They aren't. I'm not sure why.

The author of The Last Politician, a book on Joe, said that he is actually not too well thought of among the Washington crowd. He didn't go to Harvard, he's genuinely religious. The latter is unusual. They say the words, they play the part, but it's all show.

Probably more behind the scenes, but the fact is, Americans don't know what Joe has accomplished because no one's told them

[FL_Jerry]

6. I would hope so

But I don't see that happening. Money being a primary issue.

[Yorkie Mom]

7. I wish we could openly discuss this here

without posts being removed.

It's currently being discussed by top Dems, but not here on DU. That doesn't make sense.

[gab13by13]

11. How can we discuss why top ranking Democratic officials want Joe to step down

if they won't tell us why? They say we won't win.

I'm afraid if we tried to openly discuss why Joe should step down wouldn't it just be pure speculation? I already voted for Joe and before I abandon him to debate why he should step down I need a reason other than a bad debate performance.

[Yorkie Mom]

25. They haven't told us yet, but I don't assume that they won't.

For top and well respected Democrats to be calling for him to step aside SOMETHING is going on. My guess is that it's just a matter of time.

My other guess is that this isn't just about a bad debate performance.

[democrattotheend]

12. I don't think they have made it against the rules to discuss it here

I may be wrong, but I don't think the mods here have banned posts saying Biden should be replaced. I imagine they will do so after he is formally nominated (assuming he is). But it is a very hostile place right now for anyone who dares express that opinion.

[Frasier Balzov]

44. If juries are randomly chosen, the majority think it's betrayal.

So the system must be working as designed.

[meadowlander]

50. Juries aren't randomly chosen. After a certain number of pulled posts, you can't participate on juries anymore.

So once one side has managed to pull enough posts from people on the other side, they're guaranteed majorities on juries and can keep doing it.

I don't think the system is designed as "once the majority of people agree with you, you can game the jury rules to silence anyone who disagrees and shut down discussion completely on a discussion board".

[meadowlander]

48. They have. EarlG posted a week or two back and juries have been pulling any post that advocates for it.

I do respectfully think that that position needs to be revisited though as more and more prominent Democrats take that position or this board risks becoming completely irrelevant. If we can't participate in any meaningful way in *the* discussion happening in our political party at the moment as long as we're prepared to do it respectfully without risking being banned, then what is the point?

Meanwhile screeds of posts that are in obvious violation of civility and don't bash Dems ToS rules are left up as long as they agree with the prevailing ideology. It's been super disappointing that after 23 years of posting here, DU is no longer the first place I want to go to discuss what's going on in politics.

[Irish_Dem]

20. I agree Yorkie Mom.

There is obviously something going on behind the scenes.

We could figure it out most likely if we could have some leeway in discussion.

There are only a few possibilities to explain what is going on.

[Yorkie Mom]

31. I'd love to be able to have that discussion and pick your brain about what you think

but I'm afraid of racking up to many hides and being banned.

I've been here 20 years and this place has been my go to for political discussions. We need to be able to discuss this openly.

[Pisces]

34. I agree 100%. It's crazy we can't discuss this when something is definitely going on.

[Irish_Dem]

42. Same here, would love to hear your ideas.

I feel certain that some of us on this forum can figure out what the H is going on.

Grist for the mill as follows.

Another DU member started a list and I finished it.

1. Unknown information about current candidate.
2. Internal polling
3. Billionaire donors are done with Joe, he is too much on the side of the regular American. Like they hated FDR.
4. Putin. All roads tend to lead back to him?

No need to necessarily respond, just ideas to think about.

[Cha]

37. "Top Dems" Are For Biden". So there's That. And "Pres Biden is NOT Dropping OUT".

[Quixote1818]

103. I love Biden, I think he's the best choice, but I want our best person

Against Trump whoever that is. This election is too important to mess around. I'm 1000000000% for whoever it ends up being Biden or otherwise. Run the numbers and look at the probabilitys. We also need someone strong because MAGA is going to go crazy when we win.

[gab13by13]

9. My only thought

about why these high ranking Democratic officials are calling for Joe to step down was because they knew of a physical issue with Joe. That was shot down today when Joe came out and declared he has no physicals issues, and Joe doesn't lie.

What is left, fucking polls. What else is there besides some crazy conspiracy theory?

[flamingdem]

13. This is hideous. Schiff is close to Pelosi

so what he says is somewhat approved.

I tend to think Pelosi knows what she's doing. Are they using Schiff for a mouthpiece?

[Yorkie Mom]

35. I trust Pelosi.

I did see a post on twitter from a reporter about Pelosi and Schiff that said, "That's Nancy using her drone, it’s the SAME as Obama using Clooney," a top Hill aide told me"

[flamingdem]

41. I know ..

I trust Pelosi, Schiff not so much.

[Irish_Dem]

23. Yes gab those are on the list of possible explanations.

You said:
1. Something unknown about current candidate
2. Insider polling

Please add
3. Money
4. Putin

[lame54]

14. Candidatetobenamedlater/Harris doesn't look good on a sign

[BComplex]

62. Boy does that ever piss me off! Kamala Harris would be able to kick anyone's hiney!

I can't believe this is happening. Has our party ALWAYS been owned by the billionaire class, and we were just too caught up in our underdog identity to realize it? This whole thing is just making me sit here and shake my head in disbelief. Have we, the BASE of the party, been punked all this time? Do we not have ANY support?

[Demsrule86]

15. He will not be replaced. And if he was, we would lose.

[wryter2000]

18. I wish they would realize that

And stop this %&^())_) nonsense.

[Chakaconcarne]

64. I don't know.... I would bet they know Trump has no chance of winning which is why they are taking these risks...

Maybe there's a long game strategy happening...we can only guess.

[krawhitham]

19. If we switch we get CRUSHED in a landslide

You can't start with ZERO cash and nobody on the ground in swing states

Joe can not transfer all he's raised to any other candidate including Harris until AFTER he gets the nomination and is the official candidate

And no, not everyone will just grin and bear kicking Joe out and then vote for the new candidate, that's a fantasy

Joe won the Primary
Joe is clearly fit to serve (23+ events after the debate)
Joe has clearly stated he's not dropping out
We can have a floor fight, it will kill our chances but Joe can lose 49.4% of his delegates and still win the nomination.

Even if they do somehow force him out and undo the will of the voters how is that any different than what was tried on Jan 6th?

You can not save a Democracy by destroying it



This race is clearly in the margin of error, hell 538 currently gives Joe a 54% of winning. Why is this BS even being considered when we can just simply push Joe over the line to victory if half the energy wasted on forcing him out was spent on building up our candidate

[Self Esteem]

22. Na. If they force Biden out, the party is telling me my vote doesn't matter.

[SomedayKindaLove]

90. Exactly

So why bother voting.

[Cha]

26. President Biden Is Our Canidate and Many of Us Are Moving FORWARD NOW.

No Ifs Ands or Buts.

TY

[yorkster]

30. This would be far worse than after 2016.

If something is going on with Joe healthwise and the replacement isn't Kamala?
Slouching towards Bethlehem time.

Feels like peak fever pitch right about now.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

33. Why are you saying that?

The last thread you posted was pretty defiantly supporting President Biden.

Don't cave to the MAGAts' agenda.

[Buckeyeblue]

38. My issue is why wasn't this addressed last fall?

Honestly, everyone knew how old Joe was going to be this year. If people thought it was an issue, they should have challenged him in the primaries. Lay out the age concern and let the primary voters decide.

But because of a bad debate, our leadership is in a panic. Our leadership is 10 months too late.

[Pisces]

43. Sometimes things change on the ground very quickly. And Deterioration happens faster than people realize

Something this extreme wouldn’t be happening unless there was no other option

[meadowlander]

61. Last fall everyone was told get behind Biden no matter what so we don't weaken him against Trump.

We didn't see much of Biden and just assumed that even though he was old, he was still sharp and on top of things. It's never been his age which was the problem

After the debate and subsequent performance, many people had a different view.

It's not just a bad debate, it's also months of bad polling that shows Biden trailing Trump. We didn't know 10 months ago that we were going to be behind at this stage in the game.

[W_HAMILTON]

79. That leads me to believe even more that this is a big donor-driven pressure campaign.

They knew that none of their candidates could have won against Biden in a primary. They also knew that it would be political suicide for most any candidate to even try. But they didn't want Biden as the nominee. So, what happens?

They let Biden handily win the nomination -- as expected -- then try to mount a pressure campaign by dangling donor dollars in front of everyday, run-of-the-mill Democratic politicians to try to get them to pressure Biden out of the race, effectively bypassing the democratic process of selecting our nominee and instead putting it in the hands of party insiders.

It stinks to high hell and it's completely shameful. I will never forget the Democrats that went this route.

[Elessar Zappa]

49. I'll vote for a cheeseburger over Trump or any other Republican.

I just want this whole thing to be resolved and an end to this circular firing squad.

[Chakaconcarne]

65. I think the majority of Americans feel the same way....

[Initech]

54. Whatever happens, happens. But we *MUST* stop Trump and Project 2025 *AT ALL COSTS*.

Project 2025 is going to sink this country into a new dark age from which it might not ever recover. Everyone will be affected by this wretched abomination. Fuck the Heritage Foundation.

[Stinky The Clown]

55. Right there with you . . . . . BUT . . . .

I will not forget those who fucked Biden if it turns out he was, in fact, fucked.

[meadowlander]

58. "Party unity but only if my guy tops the ticket" isn't party unity.

Thanks for posting this very important point, Ed.

[wiseowljedi]

59. Wiseowljedi

Support Joe 100%. Unite now and focus on that. The MSM is missing the boat right now. Ignore them until they come around. Things are going very well with Joe. Let's not change that. Get ready to rally!

[Sunsky]

72. We are showing the world

That as a party, we are no match for propaganda. When the party sows the seed of doubt, it spreads throughout. Democrats are destroying our chances in the general from within. I've now heard chatter of a write-in campaign in California, to show displeasure of Schiff. What are we doing????

[bigtree]

84. if what happens?

...'we' here at DU will likely all 'move forward' with the party.

Funny, though, with all of the talk we hear of republican voters won't do this or that, how much some folks are taking Dem votes for granted.

Just an observation.

[LostOne4Ever]

92. I am terrified another 1968 convention is going to happen if he steps down

We can't afford that to happen!!!

[waterwatcher123]

94. Good luck with that idea -

According to quite a few posts to date, it is highly unlikely that a new candidate could even get on the ballot in all 50 states. So, how is it even possible to think about switching candidates this close to the election?

I would really like to see the data these turn-coats are looking at to justify their call for President Biden to step aside. The polls are close to a dead heat even this far out. There is nothing in the special elections that would suggest a need to panic. The states that were close in 2020 will be close again. In fact, there are opportunities to to even pick up new states like North Carolina (74,483 votes separated Trump and Biden in 2020). There were 250,838 Republicans in NC who voted for someone other than DJT. A portion of these people will sit it out, vote for President Biden, or a 3rd party (Kennedy). With some exceptions, these people are not going back to Trump. So, this is an overlooked plus in the Biden/Harris and down ballot Democratic column that gets overlooked all the time.

[lees1975]

98. We need independents and green voters to win this and we won't get that if Biden is replaced.

I'm working as hard as I can, sacrificially giving to the Biden campaign and trying to support some of the congressional candidates, and now, it's like the party leadership is saying, "Oh, well, maybe Trump isn't the existential threat to democracy that we keep saying he is"

https://signalpress.blogspot.com/2024/07/because-we-are-democrats.html

[fishwax]

102. I'm all in on the democratic ticket come november. Full stop.