You want the truth about this Democratic political infighting? Fine, but it is ugly.

[Blue Cape]

This post might get me banned, but so be it.

It needs to be said.

The power structure is a combination of Ivy League and Georgetown.

Joe went to Syracuse.

Ironic-an Orangeman (at the time) defeated an Orange man.

I saw this coming moons back.

I was never allowed inside Obamaworld, even though I had been a member of Clintonworld and Goreworld and even Kerryworld.

But Obama liked to employ those preppy boys like Jon Favreau. He felt they helped him communicate with youth.

I am a midwestern burger munching, baseball watching, kick back with a cold beer dude. I am white, well, actually a lot of bloodlines but that doesn't really mean much to this conversation because this is not a racial divide it is a cultural one.

In 2008 I never got a role beyond field level work I had done in 1992 as a kid. That all went to Ivies or at least private school kids. I saw the changes with my own eyes. My union buddies were replaced with know-it-all and very obnoxious college interns.

The electorate felt the shift. Rhetoric wile soaring detached itself from the folksy nature of President Clinton. We lost more and more of rural America.

Old pols felt scorned, some left, some even became MAGA. In my county, our largest donor became a huge Trumper. This is about the Democratic party branding itself right now, not waiting, not sitting back, as the party of technocrats and socially liberal elites.

What Sean O' Brien didn't say, what he didn't explain, is that he likely knows that the one man the Teamsters would endorse, is to his knowledge, and he would know, not likely to be on the ticket. And the Rockerfeller Dems overthrowing this party like Schiff aren't concerned about unions, or blue collar issues at large. And so we have the last remnants of the Humphrey Democrats, leading us, fighting for us, and being pushed out the door so dog walking college students get another fancy apartment development where a black grandma's home once stood.

Have you asked yourself why Democratic metros keep raising property values on historically black neighborhoods relative to white? Look it up. Look up St. Louis, CO and Cuyahoga, CO.

While all the while we wonder, of course, "What is going on with minority support?"

This is the truth. This has been coming for a while.

The Democratic Party post-Joe Biden presidency will be much different, and instantly, than with him whether he exits the stage now or 2029. What exactly it will be I can't be sure, it might continue to promote the middle class on the surface, but my guess is in the end, the powerful would rather keep their tax cut so if the new nominee wins, assuming one is needed, expect them to keep most of the Trump cuts.

So who wins? I don't know. Probably us. What wins?

That is a more difficult question to answer.

My guess in ten years this party occupies the place on the Political Compass that the Bush Republican Party did 20 years ago.

Ban away. Or not. Too sick to care, as I am suffering from a progressive vessel disease and this is likely my last run.

I just want to help as many people as I can on the way to my sunset, as this cowboy rides away.

[whathehell]

9. "Biden wasn't allowed upatairs in Obama Whitehouse"

Why?..What does that even mean?..They were supposedly good friends.

As for Obama, yes, he did pass over Biden for Hillary, and why isn't he stepping up for Joe now?

[whathehell]

37. I'm not challenging you or Chris Matthews..

in fact, I like Chris Matthews and always have.

[Self Esteem]

44. Biden and Obama have a complicated relationship.

They definitely grew closer after Beau's death but Obamaworld has been known to not really like Biden. This included people like Axelrod. I do think Obama was more appreciative of Biden than his team but there was a lot of hostility toward Biden because he often spoke out of turn and sometimes put his foot in his mouth.

In 2011, some in Obamaworld even floated dropping Biden from the ticket. I don't think Obama would have gone for it but it got to the point they polled alternatives tickets to see if dropping Biden would improve their polling position... but it didn't so they dropped the idea.

There's also some unflattering quotes from Obama, at least attributed to him that have never been denied. I think he said, or was purported saying that you could never underestimate Biden's ability to screw things up.

I think on a human level, they respect one another and Obama clearly likes Biden. But on a political level, they're very different. Biden is an old school politician with a blue collar background. Obama is not that.

[whathehell]

54. If this is true..

I'm disappointed in Obama, not to mention his "team". As for Biden's "screwing up", Obama screwed up too, and big time, most notably when he tried to "grand bargain" away Social Security -- He got turned around fast on that misstep.
As for Joe's "blue collar background", I'd think his decades in the Senate would have more than made up for any perceived "deficits" therein.

I like Obama, but I think Joe, in terms of accomplishments and progressive vision, is the better president.

[MaryMagdaline]

52. Chris Mathews has dementia. He was thinking of George Bush Sr and Reagan

[whathehell]

55. I don't think so..

He's been on MSNBC several times since leaving Hardball and he seems fine.

[question everything]

16. In 2016 Biden was in mourning and was in no mind to run.

And.. being 74 then was viewed as too old…

If you remember, he said. that he decided to run after Charlottesville.

Hillary was the nominee since after losing to Obama it was expected that this was her turn.

Still considering the disastrous 2020 primaries - in my opinion - were it not Biden we would now be closing Whiny second term and Ukraine would be part of the Russian empire.

[Cha]

26. That's Exactly the way I believe it happened. Joe Biden was in Mourning for Beau.

and everything else you said.

So glad he came out of Retirement. His Launch Video was Brilliant .. For the Soul of Our Nation.

[Midwestern Democrat]

41. There would have been a Thermo-Nuclear explosion in the party in 2016 if Obama had tried to derail Hillary in favor of

Biden - criticizing Obama for not doing that is pretty silly, IMO.

[musicblind]

67. To be fair,

and as someone who remembers that period in time very clearly, I can easily see your assessment as being 100 percent true.

[Tweedy]

31. Fighting each other won't help

Former President Obama has helped. He cannot stop this. We have to stop this.

I don’t know about upstairs, downstairs, any stairs. I do know democrats have freak outs from time to time and this one is quite the thing at the moment.

Fighting with ourselves will not end it.
Joe Biden won Michigan in part because people from Grosse Pointe voted for him.

I was, and am, happy to welcome anyone from anywhere in America back to sanity!!

We need to talk that donor in your county back to sanity. Whatever aggravation he may feel about the ivies, he was sane enough to be a democrat in the first place. His sanity and his empathy are in there somewhere. Help him find them again !!

That is how we will win no matter what garbage they try to get us to surf.

There is nothing sane about the other side here. They will burn this whole country down.

[Hekate]

45. What are you even talking about?! Biden "retired" because his son Beau freaking died!

Joe was absolutely gutted. Also, he and his son’s family were were so freaking strapped with medical expenses that Joe & Jill were going to take out a loan against their own home. Anybody remember that?

And who stepped up to rescue the Bidens? Barack Obama, that’s who! It was all over the news once other people found out. Those men are like brothers.

None of this is even making sense!

[onecaliberal]

2. Recommend. I wish I could rec a million times.

[shrike3]

3. You know, I was thinking about this today.

And I decided it was probably about tax cuts. And money. And the wealthy trying to keep more of it. They're in our party, too.

Thank you for your post. You confirmed what my gut was telling me. Ride gently, cowboy.

[Blue Full Moon]

21. Agree

[whathehell]

4. I find your post very interesting,

and the Ivy League "class" issue, definitely resonates with me. I went to a state college as well, and I remember being hurt and surprised upon reading (I forget the source, but it was credible) that Obama's Administration had more people from foreign universities than it did from our state universities. I was a big fan of Obama's and still am, but that really disappointed me.

I also saw the documentary "The Hunting of the President" and recall it's revelations about the awful class snobbery that greeted Clinton in his time in office...It's sickening.

[RobinA]

65. I Believe

That a big part of who Clinton is, for better and for worse, is the class snobbery he has faced in his life.

[ribrepin]

5. Sadly this is my feeling too

Recommended

[stopdiggin]

6. ah, yes. the young whippersnappers with college educations

(and apparently even a few 'minority' ones) .. looking down their noses at the good old union guys. It sure is a sad day for America!

[AwakeAtLast]

42. Why, yes

It's almost as if Biden is uniquely built to connect the two.

[electric_blue68]

47. I'm a college grad, but knowing some American History; why would I be against Unions in general? They fought for...

things that workers take for granted now. Also fighting when gains are threatened to be diminished, or removed again.

Sure, there may be corruption on occasion, but you can usually find that in some small percentage (maybe more at times) in any really big group.

[stopdiggin]

58. if you took my post as a slap at unions

that was not at ALL the intent. On the other hand - if you're singing me a sad song about how the party (or Joe Biden) have 'ditched' - or insufficiently supported and/or respected the unions and their movement ... I'm going to call out a very loud, clear and uncompromising, "BULLSH*T" on that one.

When it comes to a comparison (and a contrast) on workers and workplace rights between the two parties ... There simply IS no comparison! At all. And any person in the workforce that isn't fully aware of that straightforward fact - is quite simply a towering ignoramus and a dumbsh*t !! Full stop.

[electric_blue68]

66. What?! No, you've misinterpreted my post. You said...

"the young whippersnappers with college educations" in reference to the OP's comment re: the college kids Obama's people went ahead and replaced the union people with. [OK, sloppy grammer]

I was saying that I, as a college grad support Unions because I know enough American History of how Unions got workers rights, safety measures, better hours etc even by the time I was in HS in the later 1960s.

I didn't think your post was anti-union.

And I'm not sure at all how you extrapolated that I thot that Biden was weak(?) on unions. Woah, not at all!
He's gone, and spoken at factories etc w strong union affiliations, for instance.

Republicans - maybe the most socially liberal, and moderate finance in the '60s/ early '70s were OK with Unions? And there were a few Liberal Republicans.
But that if it ever was in someways true they devolved from there!

I hope I've cleared all that up. 👍

[stopdiggin]

68. OK. I guess we were a little at cross-purposes there

(and apologies on my end for that)
My big beef - is with any union person (or family) that isn't foursquare in the Democratic camp! (and unfortunately there are more than a handful that meet that description) Short of having a full on lobotomy - I just don't get it!

[Blue Full Moon]

48. Expect to be rewarded for nothing

They are harmful. The company I worked for skipped over people with experience and education. For young, no experience and college degree in nothing close to what the job required. They expected us to clean up their messes.

[stopdiggin]

59. and you blamed the 'new hires' ?

(instead of the clearly culpable people in charge?) What an interesting 'take' on the problem ...

[Blue Full Moon]

60. They made the choice not someone else

Last edited Thu Jul 18, 2024, 09:49 PM - Edit history (2)

[lees1975]

7. K and R

[Seeking Serenity]

8. Hear, hear! I remember getting a cold chill down my spine, after feeling exactly what you experienced during the Obama y

When Chuck Schumer said, proudly, that for every blue-collar vote the Party loses, it would pick up one or two in the suburbs.

I saw it beginning with Clinton and Gore's triangulation with the DLC. I saw it with the past 16 years as the party of the working people started rescuing the big banks and making sure none of those executives lost a frigging DIME of their bonuses. The blue-collar party started firmly chasing after Wall Street, and basically acting (with a few token gestures here and there to the workers) like the Chamber of Commerce Party.

Biden has done some good for unions (save for the Railway Teamsters) and workers, but the Party elites don't seem to care about us. "The mighty take what they will, and the weak suffer what they must."

That's why I'm so mad at the Party elite and the big money that controls them. Yet I'm told I have to vote for THEM. But they don't seem to want to EARN my vote.

OK, I'm done.

[alarimer]

11. In 2020, I voted for Biden but I was kind of lukewarm.

I thought he was just another establishment Dem, sort of a dull white guy prone to gaffes. That was clearly not accurate. I missed all the nuances, obviously, because he has turned out a whole lot better than I hoped. More down to earth, more pro-working people, etc. Campaign not run by out-of-touch Ivy Leaguers.

And now the establishment is fighting back. They can go kick rocks. I’ve always hated them.

[markodochartaigh]

22. I remembered where he was vice president

he came out for marriage equality even before his president, Obama, did. I was enthusiastic, and still am, I think that he is the best president since Carter, Johnson, and JFK.

I'm proud to be a progressive, but there are two incredibly strong forces in this country standing in the way of progressive reform, our oiligarchs, and our people. President Biden has been more progressive than I could have hoped. Unfortunately, our oiligarchs would never have allowed a 100% progressive to be a Democratic presidential candidate. And even if a 100% progressive was the Democratic candidate the population of the US would not vote for them after they were demonized by the press, the preachers, and the corporations.

[Retrograde]

12. Sounds plausible to me

I'm a few years younger than Biden, part of the first generation who had a parent who was able to go to college because of the GI Bill - and those were often state colleges. I encounter a lot of younger people here in Silicon Valley who place great emphasis where people went to school rather than on what they can do, and there are companies that won't even look at your resume if you didn't attend an elite school. So these grads end up in a closed system. And I think we're seeing that in Democratic politics as well in a way I don't remember since Kennedy's "Best and Brightest", which led to the Vietnam debacle.

Harris is a product of Howard and Berkeley, both good schools but not quite the top of the heap.

[harumph]

13. The top of the heap as you call it ain't about merit -

It's about connections. It has nothing whatsoever to do with smarts (above a certain level).

[moniss]

17. Very astute reference

to the "Best and the Brightest" and Vietnam. The firm belief that they could go into Vietnam and take over a complex regional conflict was arrogance of the highest order. Let alone the lessons we should have learned from Korea but did not. Of course we have to remember that this was the era of the draft where the "whiz kids" were able to just keep feeding the war beast with little danger that the children of the upper classes would be affected.

The US then, and to an extent still, felt that areas of conflict could be controlled/resolved/friendly people put in place just by sheer might of number of bombs dropped or people killed. The arrogance is also so blatant that the "Best and the Brightest" ignored our own history during our Revolution. The lessons were there but the B&B were so sure of their own brilliance that they felt no need to listen to anybody else other than themselves. Our war for our Independence was also against a colonial power who also had superior arms, numbers, experience etc. But the superior force was defeated and many of the aspects that made that defeat possible were also present in Vietnam.

History speaks to us all the time but some people are "so smart" that they are too stupid to hear.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

30. there are companies that won't even look at your resume if you didn't attend an elite school

JD Vance's book made that abundantly clear. He wrote about all the job offers he received out of nowhere after attending Yale law school.

He's a first-rate douchebag but by God he an Ivy league degree.

[Cowpunk]

57. I'm not sure Vance's experience was typical.

His conservativism may have made him uniquely desirable to some people.

[Blue Full Moon]

14. 100%, that is what has been wrong.

[Renew Deal]

15. That's nothing worth banning over.

[SamuelTheThird]

18. The alternative would very, very likely be Harris

'but my guess is in the end, the powerful would rather keep their tax cut so if the new nominee wins, assuming one is needed, expect them to keep most of the Trump cuts.'

So you're saying Harris would do Trump-like taxes for the wealthy?

She ran herself for President in 2019, and said she would repeal Trump's tax cuts. Are we saying she was/is lying?

[ZonkerHarris]

34. But no one is saying "Harris needs to take his place." they only say "Joe needs to step down."

Semantically those two statements are nowhere near each other
If all these elites wanted Harris they would say so and build her up.
But that's not what this is about.
This is about everyone who wants to run in '28 trying to take it now instead.
Or this is about putting a Gavin Newsom/Gretchen Whitmer type of ticket together.

[valleyrogue]

35. Newsom doesn't have a prayer in hell of being president--EVER.

Take a look at the Daily Mail and their history of reporting about California. That tabloid has every talking point the GOP creates. The DM's narrative of California: Lots of homeless people, lots of crime, lots of feces in the streets, needles and syringes everywhere, people leaving the state in droves. Newsom is a walking GOP attack ad.

He has NO shot whatsoever of being president.

[ZonkerHarris]

36. tell the elites that

[valleyrogue]

69. The elites don't know shit.

Newsom would get destroyed because of his record in California, or at least the GOP version of it. I always recommend people look at the UK Daily Mail, which is full of lies, but they are clearly using GOP talking points, especially when it comes to California and blue cities across the country. Newsom wouldn't have a chance in hell by the time the GOP got done with him.

It's all moot anyway. It is going to be Biden-Harris, and the ticket will get another term.

[SamuelTheThird]

43. Alright, but

Polling shows most Dems want a replacement. Maybe the polling is all bs.

Maybe Pelosi, Schumer, and Jeffries are strictly concerned with the 'elites' concerns.

Inevitably, there is going to be jockying for power. But there may be better odds with someone else. Borth things can be true.

[people]

19. Clinton

Clinton hurt working people so much with NAFTA. He wasn't pro worker at all although he had a very approachable folksy demeanor.

[betsuni]

20. "We lost more and more of rural America" because "liberal elites."

Biden went to a good college? Obama hired too many preppies and lost rural America? Democrats ignore unions and working class (the same old "economic insecurity" supposedly caused by Democrats and not culture wars as reason for the shift in white voters to Republicans)? Gentrification means liberals are the real racists? Democrats only pretend to support the middle class and in ten years will be same as the Bush Republicans?

What? What is this? No evidence at all, none.

[Hekate]

46. This thread

I can’t even figure out what is going on here tonight.


Obama’s family was not well off. He had an incredible mother who sent him back to the US when she realized that acculturating into his step-dad’s Indonesia was not going to be good for him. Her parents took him into their home in Honolulu — and because of who his Tutu worked for (as a secretary) she was able to get young Barry into Punahou School. Unless that came with a scholarship, I can tell you it would have been a considerable financial stretch for his grandma and grandpa.

All of President Obama’s education from then on was entirely on his own merit. Why wouldn’t he choose an Ivy League school?

Okay, I quit.

[flamingdem]

23. Isn't it ironic that Vance is attempting to appeal to that working class

and union voter that only Biden cares about.

So many points that you've made.

[Blue Full Moon]

24. This is why

A lot of people that you would think would vote democrat do not.

[tman]

25. We're going with the liberal elitist again..

Obama actually won more of the rural vote share than Gore or Kerry did.

[IronLionZion]

27. I'm convinced Howard Dean's 50 state strategy got Obama his big landslide win in 2008

There are opportunities for our party to work with unions and some rural Americans. They're not all MAGA types. There are plenty of normal folks out there who could be persuaded to our side if someone listened to them.

[misanthrope]

39. I think McCain's selection of Sarah Palin as his running mate did a lot of work for Dems, too

She was the predecessor to Trump.

[StarryNite]

28. Thank you for your very insightful post.

[BlueInPhilly]

29. Welcome to DU Blue Cape

Member since June 28, 2024 /sarcasm

We hardly knew you but sure, kick the sand and leave the playground because you thought you were not welcomed by the “cool kids”.

[Bluethroughu]

32. Well maybe our party splits and we get a Republican party and a Democratic party out of it.

It's up to King Biden right now. He can remove the 6 traitors on the SCOTUS, and appoint 6 new, HE'S KING! They dismantled the Constitution for "Gratuities".

The Biden can tell his new court to overturn all cases they ruled on, because of corruption. Including immunity, citizens united, chevron, Dobbs, bribery, and all the others.

Biden will return to a Presidency, and we our sanity.

[Tweedy]

33. I hope you see many more lovely days

Wonderful sunsets
Stunning lavender blooms and every other beautiful thing you love

And I hope you hear laughter too.
Can anyone ever get too much laughter?

[OBrien]

38. I think the similar explanation

I wonder if the Schiffs et all think the only way to win more elections is to appeal to more white men.

[LisaL]

50. Appealing to more white men would certainly help, unless you lose the base

in the effort.

[valleyrogue]

40. Of course it is. I have been saying this for years about what I call the "Beltway Mob."

Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter went through the same thing as Biden. They were always outsiders, and the Beltway Mob always looked down on those from the South since they thought people from that region were and are nothing but ignorant hillbillies. The Carters and the Clintons didn't kiss the asses of the Beltway Mob. The Mob is made up of political figures and the elites in the media, especially from the DC press corps. The NYT and the WP remain the major newspaper members of this clique. I have talked about what happened with Bill and Hillary Clinton and why they were so despised by the insiders of the Beltway.

I managed to save an excerpt of an old Salon article from around 2000, but the link I got it from no longer exists. It was an article about Sally Quinn, who was a failed journalist who literally slept her way to the top by marrying the late WP editor, Ben Bradlee.

Here is why the animosity towards the Clintons:

Actually, it could be said that Sally Quinn has been floundering around for the last couple of decades, when she failed first as a journalist, then as a novelist, before emerging as a hostess in a Washington society that even she admits is in its death throes. Which brings us to a central question: Who appointed Quinn as the mouthpiece for the permanent Washington establishment, if there is such an animal? A peek into Quinn's motives reveals a hidden political agenda and the venom of a hostess scorned, and ultimately, an aging semi-journalist propped up by a cadre of media buddies, carping at the Clintons because they wouldn't kiss her ring.

...

According to society sources, Sally invited Hillary to a luncheon when the Clintons came to town in 1993. Sally stocked her guest list with her best buddies and prepared to usher the first lady into the capital's social whirl. Apparently, Hillary didn't accept. Miffed, Sally wrote a catty piece in the Post about Mrs. Clinton. Hillary made sure that Quinn rarely made it into the White House dinners or social events.

In return, Sally started talking trash about Hillary to her buddies, and her animus became a staple of the social scene. "There's just something about her that pisses people off," Quinn is quoted as saying in a New Yorker article about Hillary.

It really was that petty and that stupid. Because of this, the media all ganged up on the Clintons, just as they had done with the Carters and they are doing now with the Bidens. This is how the Beltway Mob operates. This is nothing new.

[JonAndKatePlusABird]

61. Here's the full article!

https://web.archive.org/web/20020224155452/https://www.salon.com/media/1998/03/09media.html

and

https://web.archive.org/web/20020224143912/http://www.salon.com/media/1998/03/09media2.html

[valleyrogue]

63. Thanks a million. That article is a keeper.

It is an important article in understanding the Beltway mindset. The article is still relevant today, 26 years after it was published.

Gene Lyons talked about the Beltway Mob years ago in Fools for Scandal.

I will bookmark those links for my future reference.

[modrepub]

49. Dem Suburban Shift

Like it or not, the suburban areas are the areas that generally determine outcomes at the state office and national level. Those areas skew college-educated/white collar type backgrounds/job opportunities. Unlike most rural and urban areas, they are growing in population. Hence, that's where the action is for the Dem and Rep parties.

College loan forgiveness, abortion access, tax breaks, health-care access and so forth are the Dem's attempts to rally in the suburbs. DEI, law & order, anti-elitism are the rallying cries of the right to try and break the Dem talking points aimed at the suburban voter.

[Joinfortmill]

51. I believe you.

[MaryMagdaline]

53. Many good points here. That's why Fetterman and Whitmer

need to take center stage and focus should be on infrastructure and manufacturing jobs.

The Democratic Party has been good to white collar workers but lost their way with blue collar workers.

Remember when NY and CA were in play? We sacrificed a lot of votes to win over those workers and those economies. This convention needs to focus on our great manufacturing base.

[Cowpunk]

56. K&R. I've seen it too

Biden should publicly tell them to go to hell, but I doubt he has the guts, honestly.

[LAS14]

62. What in this post would make you worry about getting banned?

Not rhetorical. I'm just puzzled.

[Emile]

64. Well written. K & R