Yes, the distinction between debris and bullet *is* important.

[Tommy Carcetti]

I am well aware that the shooter--and once again as we'll all point out, a fellow Republican--was shooting at Trump and even if one of his bullets did not hit Trump, that wouldn't disqualify it as an assassination attempt.

Some people--even here--have said that whether Trump was actually shot or merely shot at and injured by debris is nothing more than a distinction without a difference.

But Trump's immediate reaction, his supporters' reactions, and their overall proclivity to lie and distort the truth and thereby control the messaging should not be swept aside.

"Took a bullet" sells much better to the voting public than "took some inadvertent debris." It sounds neater, more cool, more sacrificial for a man who is inherently selfish by nature.

They want people to think Trump is literally bullet proof, that bullets could magically bounce off his body as if it were rubber.

And if it was truthfully a bullet, so be it.

But I've heard from a fair amount of people that a bullet of that type from that sort of gun even providing a side glance to the head wouldn't have done nearly that minimal damage that we saw. That what we saw was more consistent with some sort of debris from the shooting hitting Trump in the process, whether it be glass or something else.

So, yes, we as the American public do deserve to know the truth as to whether Trump was actually shot, or merely shot at and received minor injuries in the process.

Because Trump and his campaign can't be trusted with handling the truth themselves. They never have been.

[Abnredleg]

1. Speaking as a veteran, there is no distinction

A wound is a wound. And yes, a bullet can cause the wound Trump received.

[Tommy Carcetti]

3. Rhetorical implications are pivotal here.

Whether someone is injured by a bullet or merely shrapnel might not matter as much in war or in typical situations, this is not a typical situation.

If someone goes around claiming, "I took a bullet for you" and that person did not in fact take a bullet, that's not the truth.

Truth matters.

[Kaleva]

4. Those who believe in truth aren't voting for Trump

nor are they considering it .

So it doesn't make a difference.

[Tommy Carcetti]

6. Anything minimal matters in this election.

It's like the Enquirer headlines in 2016.

Passive, non-ideological voters without a strong affinity towards one candidate or another--but still vote simply out of a sense of "civic duty"--do in fact exist.

People might have walked by a supermarket checkout line, seen all the nasty Enquirer headlines about Hillary Clinton, never consciously thought about buying a copy or even spending much thought on what the headlines said. But after a while, there is bound to be a subconscious, subliminal effect.

So you have these passive voters not devoted to either Trump or Biden, they hear all about how Trump is "bullet proof", and it can have an effect. Even if it's not true. And then with all the nonsense about how Biden is supposedly too old, doubly so.

[Kaleva]

11. Anyone who still thinks Trump is a viable candidate

isn't interested in the truth

[radius777]

46. You get it - that stuff matters in a way that

policy wonks tend to overlook. Both liberal and conservative wonks have been flabbergasted by Trump's rise.

Remember that Trump is a master of marketing, and has realized that what wonks consider 'background noise' nonetheless has an affect on voters, especially the apolitical voters.

I was listening to an excellent podcast by Ezra Klein on this very topic:

[muriel_volestrangler]

14. No. It makes no difference to "I took a bullet for you".

You're in some fantasyland if you think that after all the lies and exaggeration that Trump has come up with over the decades, "it was secondary debris, not a literal bullet that hit his ear" is going to make a difference to a single person who could contemplate voting for Trump.

Plus, you know, there is none of this fucking debris anywhere, and I cannot fathom why good DUers are in this world where they think there was. Please stop making threads about it.

[whopis01]

34. If the truth mattered to everyone

Trump would be getting zero votes.

The reality is that the truth does not matter to a large portion of the population.

The truth is that getting hit with debris does not make someone a better leader. Neither does getting hit with a bullet.

[Dorian Gray]

47. Exactly this

and the mythos is there already. It won't matter at all to his supporters if it was actually debris. Determining it was glass shards that cut him isn't going to change one damn mind about Trump.

Watching Trump's rambling 2 hour monologue will, tho.

[Skittles]

37. speaking as a veteran

FACTS ARE FACTS

WHY IS NO ONE ASKING QUESTIONS

[BoRaGard]

48. Why is the G.O.P. treating this like a State Secret?

They are up to some skanky shit, as usual, I suspect.

No valid reason to keep this a mystery.

[DeepWinter]

56. Agree

These are the threads that make me cringe. Trashing.

[brewens]

2. With purple hearts they don't care if it was a bullet or shrapnel but you won't hear a guy who was wounded by

shrapnel say he took a bullet. Trump is making that an issue.

[Kaleva]

5. It's meat for his base

Who are going to vote for him regardless of the actual cause of his wound.

[themaguffin]

7. Exactly. I've been waiting for the medical details all week for this very reason.

[Bluedawgbill]

8. Just stop with this

It makes us look petty and foolish, particularly when there are pictures everywhere disproving the "glass shrapnel from a teleprompter" theory.

And no, a bullet hitting the ear lobe isn't going to cause significant injury no matter what round was used. That's Hollywood stuff.

[Tommy Carcetti]

9. We just want the truth.

If it was a bullet, it was a bullet. But don’t just say it was a bullet because Trump himself said it was a bullet.

Stop pretending that shrapnel doesn’t happen in shootings and it’s ridiculous to think it could.

I recently read a book by Christopher Miller, a journalist in war torn Ukraine. When he visited hospitals with injured soldiers, he remarked that the majority of wounds he saw were actually shrapnel as opposed to direct bullet wounds.

And it’s not like the only object capable of producing shrapnel was the teleprompter.

But we don’t know anything. It would be nice to know definitively one way or the other. Even if it was a bullet.

But sure, just blindly cede the entire narrative to Trump himself.

[Zeitghost]

15. It's silly to compare a shooting with a war zone

It's clear to anyone that not pushing some weird CT or agenda that a bullet grazed his ear. We have video and photographic evidence and it happened live on television.

[Tommy Carcetti]

18. It's not crazy to say we don't know the facts.

Obviously he was shot at.

Shooting produces bullets, but it also produces shrapnel.

At the moment we don’t know whether it was bullets or shrapnel that hit him.

It wouldn’t matter but for the man is going around insisting he took a bullet, and so far no one knows if he actually did.

This isn’t any crazy conspiracy theory. People just want to know the actual facts where they haven’t been provided.

[Zeitghost]

24. Again, we have the truth

It's all on video, live as it happened. We have close up pictures that do not show wounds consistent with flying bits of wood or glass but that are consistent with a bullet graze.

[Farmer-Rick]

16. Not to quibble

But who exactly do we look petty and foolish to?????

Pedo Trump humpers? Anti Biden Dems? Pro Biden Dems? The far left?

Do you really care so much about appearances that you really don't want to know the truth?

I want to know the truth because the truth matters. Was it shrapnel or a bullet that clipped his ear? I've been shot at and grazed by debris. You know the difference.

[TheKentuckian]

36. About everyone. It doesn't make any practical difference.

Having curiosity about a distinction with no functional difference satisfied may be desirable but is not actionable.

It makes not even a tiny hill of beans.

[Bluedawgbill]

49. To everyone

But more importantly, to the undecided voter that we absolutely have to have the support of to win. There are numerous pictures that disprove the whole glass shard thing, because nothing is broken anywhere near the podium. There's a picture from an esteemed photographer showing the bullet in flight. So yeah, if someone on the fence stumbles through here and we look like we're peddling conspiracy theories it doesn't exactly persuade them to our cause.

[Farmer-Rick]

50. But the conspiracies aren't hurting

The Pedo Trump supporters any. In fact if you believe the BS spewed endlessly from the corporate media, the party of truth and integrity is going down the drain. We just aren't as popular as the party of lies, conspiracies and criminals.

If it doesn't make a dent in the RNC support, according the corporate media, why would it suddenly affect our support?

I think people don't care. They don't care about conspiracies theories no matter who puts them out there. Many Americans have conspiracy blindness according to studies. They couldn't recognize a conspiracy if it hit them over the head.

I think it was Karl Rove who said "Conspiracies didn't have to be true, they just had to work."

What work do conspiracies do? That is what we should be considering.

[Skittles]

38. I guarantee you if the shooter had been an illegal immigrant

THE PRESS WOULD BE ASKING WAY MORE QUESTIONS

THIS IS DOUBLE STANDARD FUCKING BULLSHIT

[Bengus81]

52. Ear lobe?? He got hit in the ear lobe? Got a pic of that?

[Takket]

10. An assassination attempt is an assassination attempt

Someone tried to kill drumpf. The shooters ability to aim really doesn’t matter in that calculation. And no one is going to vote or not vote for either candidate based on the distinction between shrapnel and bullet.

And it was the bullet that hit him anyway. The NYT photographer captured it right next to his head.

There’s been polls already since the shooting and drumpf has gotten no bump. We’ll see what happens after he surely plays this up tonight. He’ll say someone tried to kill me but I’ll never stop fighting for you blah blah blah.

[Farmer-Rick]

26. That bullet on the video may not have hit him

That shooter had a poor aim because he was discovered and he rushed the shots.

There were other shots flying besides the one that may have grazed him.

You know who really knows the truth? Pedo Trump. I was shot at and hit by debris. You can hear the difference. You can feel the difference.

[barbtries]

12. hey. the fix is in.

they're gonna catapult the propaganda and ride it into history. what we deserve is a far cry from what we get these days, especially when it comes to the truth.

[Bengus81]

53. They'll fire the woman that heads the Secret Service and it will never be talked about again

Just watch.........

[sinkingfeeling]

13. And there's a reason no medical information has come out.

[Farmer-Rick]

21. Yeah, I was wondering about that.

What medical results have been released? I have heard nothing.

[Pototan]

17. I've been making this case for the last 5 days

and received my share of grief on this site.

It absolutely makes a huge difference if Trump exaggerated the cause and severity of his wounds. Trump is a master showman. He saw a chance to enhance the moment and knew the rubes would eat it up.

Thank you for your post. You get it.

[Straw Man]

29. The pertinent question is ...

It absolutely makes a huge difference if Trump exaggerated the cause and severity of his wounds.

To whom? Is there anyone who wasn't going to vote for him but will because he has been hit by a bullet? Is there anyone who was going to vote for him but won't if it was only debris?

The obvious answer to both those questions is "No." Sure, he will grandstand and bloviate, but that will only confirm prior beliefs, both for and against him. In the end, it doesn't matter.

[Pototan]

35. To the low information 10%

that matters.

[Straw Man]

39. They're already firmly in his camp.

So, no, it doesn't matter.

[Pototan]

40. If that 10% is for Trump

he wins in a landslide. I, for one, disagree. I think they're still up for grabs and will turn against Trump if he lied and exaggerated about his wounds.

[Straw Man]

42. Anybody who doesn't already know he's a liar is beyond convincing.

How much evidence do they need?

[KS Toronado]

19. Snopes says it was a bullet, that's enough for me.

[Renew Deal]

20. The distinction between conspiracies and fact are also important.

And the glass theory is based on either an intention to deceive or a conspiracy depending on who tells the story.

[hamsterjill]

22. Recommended this post

With great pleasure!!!

[rubbersole]

23. Eric was quoted as saying something about 'blowing half his ear off'.

Then admitted there weren't any stitches. I agree it won't change any votes. But it doesn't seem they say anything truthful. Anything.

[AZ8theist]

25. Q: Does a bullet wound require a giant tampon bandage?

Asking for a friend..

[ECL213]

27. Soldiers "take bullets for us"...

Police "take bullets for us"...

They knowingly put themselves in harm's way.

This self-aggrandizing asshole was shooting his mouth off in public with a full detail of security that was supposed to be protecting him. He did not "take a bullet" for anyone. He's not brave. He's not tough. He's just a lucky motherfucker who ruined the last Saturday of my two-week vacation by standing in the wrong spot.

[LizBeth]

28. A lie is a lie. Trump lies. SO damn done with his lies and getting away with it.

[BoRaGard]

30. One would have to be stupid to not suspect skanky doings

for republicans do it all the time

[republianmushroom]

31. Debris !

That was no Ar-15, . 223 cal. bullet with a velocity of around 3,240 feet per second with a 55-grain bullet.

Nor, 223 cal. bullet with a velocity of around 3,100 feet per second with a 77-grain bullet.

[demmiblue]

32. THIS: "My read: If the medical evaluation matched Trump's description, he would have OK'd its release."

'It’s bizarre': Reporter, doctor question nature of injuries Trump suffered in shooting

...

Since the July 13 attack, there has been much discussion of the shooter, the response of U.S. Secret Service agents, and the nature of the injury Trump suffered.

In a July 18 post on X, formerly Twitter, Dr. Jonathan Reiner — a professor of medicine at George Washington University in Washington, D.C. — writes, "It's an understatement to say that it's bizarre that a presidential candidate has sustained an injury from an attempted assassination and no medical report is issued to describe his evaluation and the extent of his injury."

Journalist Brian Beutler, in response, tweeted, "My read: If the medical evaluation matched Trump's description, he would have OK'd its release. He wants the cred of having been shot; being shot *at* and lightly injured incidentally isn't good enough for him. So as always he chose a lie and a coverup."

https://www.alternet.org/trump-right-ear-injuries/

[Arne]

33. What ever happened to ballistics.

You know, where they don't give up until they find every bullet and
every trajectory?
Tracking bullets fired in each direction and even counting
bullets not fired.
Is this only on TV sows?

[ForgedCrank]

41. All this

looks like to anyone else is nitpicking and obsessing over irrelevant details.
Whether we like it or not, all that matters now is the picture, and it was a picture of a real event, a real assassination attempt, against a real candidate by someone with a real gun with real bullets. Denying it is just energy wasted. And frankly, the less we talk about it, the faster it goes away.
Political tides change frequently. and this is one of those times, so it is up to us to move the tide back in the other direction again, that's how you win. Promoting Democratic policy through Joe Biden is the way, not obsessing about flying glass shards at a trump rally.

[Tommy Carcetti]

54. Nowhere here am I denying an assassination attempt.

That obviously occurred.

Nor am I denying that it was possible that it was a bullet that struck him.

Unfortunately, we don't know that it was. And him being stuck by debris is not some sort of outlandish, wild flat-earth styled conspiracy theory. It happens all the time in shootings.

We would just like the truth one way or the other.

Use some basic reading comprehension.

[ForgedCrank]

60. I am

perfectly capable of both reading and comprehension, but thank you for the advice.
Comprehension would include understanding the actual points I made in my post, not the one you manufactured in order to reply to it.
It's a petty and irrelevant argument to be having, and it most certainly displays as such.
We don't need to know what struck him, even though it is most probably a bullet. What we do need to do is focus elsewhere. We have other problems right now if you haven't noticed. Take the loss and move on

[canetoad]

43. I'm with you Tommy

There's a load of obfuscation in this thread. Either a bullet 'pierced his flesh' - Trump's words. Or it did not. And the public is entitled to know the accurate story of what happened here.

I suspect he is trying to claim some equivalence with troops wounded in battle and prefers the bullet narrative.

[manicdem]

44. test the theory

Buy a pig head (not Trump, a real pig head) and take it to the shooting range. Rent an AR15 and shoot the ear. You will be very underwhelmed at what really happens.

[B.See]

45. I don't care what the F he was hit by and quite frankly had grown weary of the all the speculation by day two.

Bottom line is: He was SHOT AT by someone (mentally challenged or not) who, no doubt like MANY others, had been influenced by the SAME hate, vitriol, venom, and violence that Trump's MAGA following, and he HIMSELF, have preached, inspired, and PROMOTED.

He was ALMOST a victim of the same SHIT, they've been peddling, and are peddling STILL.

[claudette]

51. Not this

again.

[dweller]

55. Meh

He dodged a bullet like he dodged the draft

With a fake ‘wound’ , cadet bonespurs advances to cpl dumboflap


✌🏻

[brush]

57. Are we still with this bullet or debris stuff? It's already been argued back and forth...

for several days here. Let's move on please. trump was grazed by a bullet..."grazed"...and the bullet kept going and killed an audience member.

Again, let's move on.

[Think. Again.]

58. I still think the bullet hit the debris.

[Kingofalldems]

59. Kick and rec.