I will be slammed for this, I know

[liberalgunwilltravel]

I have been a DU member almost since its inception. I don’t post often because I rarely have anything to add to the normally excellent discussions. However, I believe this is important. Joe Biden has been the best president in my 71 years for America and the middle class. And he did it with the slimmest majority or even a minority in one House. One of the people responsible for his success was Speaker Pelosi. Nancy was steadfast in her support, worked doggedly to get his agenda passed. What made Nancy one of the best, if not the best Speaker in my lifetime, is she could count votes. And right now she’s counting and doesn’t see Joe winning. Nancy stepped down from leadership, and has been the strongest supporter of President Biden. If she honestly doesn’t believe he has a good chance of winning, it gives me serious pause. She is the one person I would trust and listen to here. I will vote for Joe, if he’s on the ballot, but I also trust Nancy’s knowledge and instincts. OK. Feel free to flame away.

[bigtree]

1. I didn't choose Nancy Pelosi to make up my mind for me in this election

...your choice.

[mcar]

52. This!

[craiga86]

2. I agree, we can't put our heads in the sand

Important Democratic leaders are sharing this feedback. (I don’t know if this will get removed by mods…)

[R0ckyRac00n]

56. I mean you can check

Member since: Thu May 19, 2011,


I'm even "older" (2007) and have posted less! haha

[shrike3]

57. He joined in 2011 and he's got a little over a hundred posts.

Like I said, cool story.

[R0ckyRac00n]

60. nt

"cool story" is usually used to signify you think someone is lying.

[shrike3]

62. Don'[t get subtleties, do ya, bro?

[R0ckyRac00n]

63. Bro?

Well you're not exactly bowling me over with your rapier-like wit. I think you fancy yourself to be more than you are in that regard.

[R0ckyRac00n]

72. I read almost daily and have for that span.

That's more or less the totality of my interest here, i.e. to see what people are thinking. If I recall it should be actually 2004 or so, back when Wesley Clark was first running, but I had to rejoin for a reason that currently escapes me (in 2007). I would have no idea about how I might fake that. I responded because I simply felt some empathy for the original poster's sentiment. (I identified with the low post count/long-time lurker background)

I don't have anything against you, I don't know why you are belligerent.

[shrike3]

73. Because low posters are often disruptors. See it all the time.

If you don't know that, I have to wonder about a claim of "reading daily."

[R0ckyRac00n]

74. Yes, they often arrive in herds.

The proof is in the pudding. The post needs to be disruptive. The OP seemed earnest to me.

You obviously felt otherwise as is your right.

[shrike3]

59. Even cooler story, bro.

[Zilli]

66. is having a low number of posts something to be demeaned?

[shrike3]

67. Ooh, another one. Good for you.

[Hokie]

3. Nothing you said deserves flaming

I think we could quibble over what Nancy said exactly but anything less than a robust endorsement was going to be construed as doubt in the press.

[jmbar2]

4. She knows how to count votes in Congress

But I think she is misreading the polls.

Pollsters are asking, "Do you prefer candidate A, B, or C?" four months before an election, after the nominee has been chosen. Why are they asking that question? Could it drive people to give answers that are irrelevant, but drive news? Who pays them to ask that question in that way?

The real question is: Would changing candidates four months before an election help or hurt democracy? Those answers would likely be quite different.

[Mister Ed]

13. She also knows how to count donations. That's been a part of her extremely effective leadership.

She knows very well that it takes both votes and funds to win congressional majorities. I don't know which she is counting in this instance.

[jmbar2]

17. My theory: Tech/Crypto bros are behind both the polls, and the funding threats

Nancy and Adam are most dependent on Silicon valley bros for funding. Jim Himes, first to announce that Joe should step down, is a major crypto proponent, rich dude.

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2023/01/12/after-ftx-crypto-companies-no-longer-have-benefit-of-the-doubt-on-capitol-hill-says-congressman/

They want the SEC, treasury, etc. to adopt crypto.

The polling firm is funded by Sequoia Capital, a silicon valley venture capital firm that funds startups. In February 2022, Sequoia raised a $600 million Sequoia Crypto Fund. As one of the first sub-funds of Sequoia Capital Fund, the crypto fund will mainly invest in cryptocurrencies traded on third-party exchanges. (wikipedia)

https://www.opensecrets.org/campaign-expenditures/vendor?vendor=BlueLabs+Analytics

[Ursus Rex]

81. And they have it all - polls, dollars, et al

But mostly, the completely unfounded confidence of cryptocurrency libertarians-in-waiting.

[Martin Eden]

64. Yep, more questions than answers.

Would a different nominee have a better chance to win?

Would Joe be willing to step down, and if not, can he be replaced anyway?

How would the replacement be chosen -- would it all be done at the convention?

Would we face legal obstacles in getting the new ticket on the ballot in every state?


I'm not suggesting any course of action because, quite honestly, I have no certainty about any of this.

I assume Nancy Pelosi knows a helluva lot more than me about such matters, and has the best of intentions.

[CoopersDad]

5. No flames here. Nobody on this board has the experience that speaker Pelosi has.

I'm saddened by the attacks on her and on Adam Schiff.
This is dead serious shit here and ALL that matters is defeating Trump.

Nothing else matters. Nothing.

You got a few years on me, liberalgunwilltravel, and I hope we both live to see wins this year and in future election years.

[paleotn]

69. End of the day, that is all that matters

Because if we don’t, all this won’t mean diddly squat anymore. The Republic is dead and American democracy with it.

Worriedly on the fence right now. We can’t fuck this up. We can’t.

[Keepthesoulalive]

6. Let the people decide

I love Nancy but don’t negate my vote. Please stop the back door gossip we may not recover from the internal drama.

[Flatrat]

7. I will vote for whatever candidate the dems put forth

But they better decide soon.

This is crazy.

[lapfog_1]

8. Pelosi may be remembering her friend Diane Feinstein and her struggle to be a Senator

long past when she should have stepped down.

[spooky3]

51. The difference is that, if Biden wins, he has a team

Supporting him AND he can step down and hand the reins to Harris if he chooses.

[lapfog_1]

80. I was just coming up with reasons why she would weigh in on whether or not Joe continues

I'm sure she understands that the President has a lot of resource to call upon...

But if you recall Diane's last year or so as a Senator, there were times when she just could not function. And a lot of people, including her Democratic Senators and House members wanted her to step down. It wasn't anything to do with elections or fear of Repukes taking her seat.

It has been reported ( by Carl Bernstein of Watergate fame ) that senior staff has reported that Joe has had some sort of episodes starting 6 months ago, some 20 times in staff meetings, where Joe goes "not present" in a meeting. Not sure what that means, there is little detail given. if true I'm sure that many of the Democratic leaders have witnessed this. These leaders may be worried that there is an ongoing problem and a concern that this could happen in the campaign. I have seen him a in couple of live interviews now where he will start down a side bar anecdote and catch himself just as he is reaching for a name or date and then he says never mind. Only once or twice. And it has nothing to do with his main point that he was making.

I love President Biden. But if he is no longer up to the job... then this is just really bad timing to make the change.

[Deek1935]

9. Nancy is worried about MONEY and POLLS. Polls don't mean anything. And it is SHIT to destroy a candidate over donors.

[Emile]

10. She needs to get behind our Democratic President now so the party can unify!

[Ocelot II]

11. I have great respect for Nancy Pelosi, but she doesn't get to change my primary vote.

[edisdead]

12. We Voted!

I don’t care what she has done. Disregarding our votes is BULLSHIT.

I will never trust the party again if they follow through with it. That is a bridge WAAAAY too far for me.

[liberalgunwilltravel]

21. I understand your position

The choice is Joe’s. Not mine, not Nancy’s. But the goal, the only goal is defeating Trump and saving the republic. However, that’s accomplished works for me.

[LizBeth]

26. With the implications he would only serve one term because of age, lets not forget...

to unify the Dems and take down Trump.

[randr]

14. I share much of your experience and thoughts

I see a great void in the middle of America. Most people are dissatisfied with the current reality and are concerned for our future. The situation is ripe for a populist such as tfg to step in and command attention. The void still remains and people will look to a real hero/leader if one were to emerge. Any commanding action from Biden would ease some of this anxiety but the time may have passed. I think he still has a chance of winning and of course will be voting for him. The problem will remain with the country more disunited following either parties victory.
Yesterday I came across an article mentioning Sen. Mark Kelly as a potential. Maybe, I am torn. With the new developments yesterday re: Biden's health we are on a day to day watch when we need to be on the attack at every chance.
tfg is the weakest candidate to ever run for office and totally beatable.
I think we need to keep our eyes on the most important issue at hand. Never should tfg be allowed back into our highest office.
Whatever it takes.

[democrattotheend]

15. No slamming from me. I appreciate your courage.

I'm honestly torn about what would be best, but I've been hesitant to say it here because so many people are angry about what they perceive as an insider effort to subvert the voters. But I agree with you in trusting Nancy Pelosi and her instincts, and not imputing ill motive to her and others who have genuine concerns about Biden. Remember, Biden is not some outsider who people have always been against. From what I understand he has a great working relationship with Nancy Pelosi and so many others on the Hill. He has always been well liked, especially in the Senate (by senators on both sides), and from what I know he is not the type of politician who makes tons of enemies. So when only 4 Democratic senators are firmly in his corner, that tells me their concerns are serious. Someone compared it to the job of adult children who have to convince their 80-year-old parents to give up their keys. It takes a while and there's often denial and resistance at first, but ultimately the parents usually come around, and it seems like that is what may be happening with Biden. I wish Democrats in Congress had found a way to break through and been less public about their efforts to nudge Biden aside, but I don't think they have ill motive or are doing this because Biden is too much of a threat to rich donors' interests.

[wnylib]

36. Where did you get that "only 4 Democratic Senators"

are solidly behind Biden? Who chooses the President anyway? The people or the Senate?

You also left out the Democratic governors who came out strongly for Biden.

And the Black caucus in the House. And the other House members who have not joined the "chicken coup" movement by party chickens pushing a coup against Biden.

[democrattotheend]

54. There was an article about it over the weekend

During a caucus meeting, Senator Fetterman, who is very loyal to Biden, allegedly asked who else was standing with Joe and only 4 senators raised their hands. So I guess that's five total. We know Coons is one of them, I imagine Bernie is another, not sure who the other two are.

[BumRushDaShow]

78. There have been MULTIPLE articles with the remarks from a number of Senators that the yellow journalists ignore

particularly from the "local" media from where they reside.

Just as a quick scan, I found these indicating support "on the record" -

Booker (NJ)
Butler (CA)
Casey (PA)
Coons (DE)
Duckworth (IL)
Fetterman (PA)
Kelly (Z)
Luján (NM)
Merkley (OR)
Ossoff (GA)
Padilla (CA)
Rosen (NV)
Sanders (VT)
Warnock (GA)
Wyden (OR)

Some even went on air to do so -

During "holiday" seasons and summer whenever Congress is not in session (in this case due to the RNC convention), this is when many members are on "junkets" - often overseas. So many are not around to respond to the idiocy and those who are know the "gotcha" drill and refuse to play the game.

So "guessing" and spreading misinformation to support the RW narrative, is not helpful.

[Ursus Rex]

82. There are also long-standing reports that the Bidens were not always welcome in Obamaworld

... more of a class distinction, the Ivy League vs Middle America. They - Obama and Biden - may have been friends, but not always especially close. Obama was always more calculating, IMO.

[ms liberty]

20. You're "losing patience with the more aged folks here on DU"

Wow.

[hlthe2b]

22. whoah. I missed that. I hate that some resort to ageism (young or old) to stereotype all the views or faults

with which they disagree or call out or are perceived on DU

[hlthe2b]

18. If I heard directly from her, I might agree. This biased, inept, profit-driven MSM as the intermediate FILTER

makes me unwilling to believe a damned thing that has been reported. (Not to mention the polls that are inherently questionable right now). Skepticism is not unwarranted. There is tremendous motivation to manipulate Democratic voters and all the American people right now. Take a beat. Seriously.

[DFW]

19. I would remember that top Democrats have to choose their public words VERY carefully

The media hyenas are out there, very hungry for the slightest scraps of gossip carrion that they can turn into sensationalist headlines. "Democrats unite around a sensationally successful Biden presidency" is not such a headline.

The media has taken a slight distortion on a famous biblical quote. "Ye shall not know the truth, for the truth shall make us bored."

[Demsrule86]

23. 'First of all Nancy did not say that. And secondly, I have worked elections most of my life and I can tell you this.

If Biden does not remain the candidate, we will lose. We likely we won't be able to get a new candidate in all 50 states and there will be legal challenges. As we have seen, the courts are not friendly towards Democrats right now. I would also say, that Joe's polls are up so maybe we need to follow the money. Trashing now.

[hlthe2b]

25. Yup...

Nancy is smart enough to know te obstacles (legal and otherwise) to a shift "horses" in mid-stream. I see no path for this to happen as long as Biden remains in office. (Nor do I want to see it--at all).

I am not at all sure Nancy is doing anything other than exploring options and strategies with Biden that include those that have him prevailing.

[hume]

28. Agree.

Utterly self destructive to deny the primary voters and decide who the nominee will be.

[LeftInTX]

39. Unfortunately, the complainers do not understand elections as well as campaign workers do.

I met with an elected official a few months ago. I presented some very basic data to him. I think it was voter turnout/engagement by neighborhood etc. He's been in office for 20 years. I'm not even a paid pollster. All my data was obtained free online.

[dchill]

79. Right? What she said is that it's his decision.

In her position, I think it's just about all she COULD say.

[krawhitham]

24. Umm, NO, DU was around a DECADE before you joined

[liberalgunwilltravel]

70. Um

I was following it long before I joined. Sorry for my error.

[hume]

27. I trust Biden.

I have no idea what Pelosi's agenda is.

[Blue Full Moon]

29. Not a fan of Nancy, she always gave in to Bush

[Xavier Breath]

30. No flames from me, either.

Well said.

[musicblind]

31. I wasn't in the room,

so I don't know exactly what Nancy Pelosi said, but I know she is a good person and people should stop attacking her.

[Srkdqltr]

32. Do you all think Nancy has been in Bidens presence and has insite that we dont have?

I'm not saying she or any others do but they may know more first hand than we do?

[Think. Again.]

33. Nancy Pelosi ONLY said ...

...that Joe Biden has a time limit to make HIS decision.

Your OP is pretending she has said she wants Biden out, but she has never said anything of the sort.

[MiHale]

34. No slam...Theses are unprecedented times...

My opinion is but a faint breath in a hurricane.
I’ve been a lifelong Democrat. I have stood behind every presidential candidate the Democrats have put up.

Usually the choice is clear…sometimes it is not the person I would have chosen but I defer to those who know very much more than I ever will about exactly what’s going on. Those people have inside personal information I will never be privy to, that choice is not mine.

Again, I don’t have to like it. We need to win at all costs. Unprecedented time call for unprecedented choices.

That is my strategy now.

[claudette]

35. I don't

think president Biden thinks he can’t win. I think he may realize he won’t be able to take a second term because of his age and medical condition. He’s tired

[Bev54]

38. What medical condition?

[Katcat]

43. Huh

Tired is a medical condition?

[claudette]

46. He has

COVID and appears weak. I ❤️ President Biden

[Bev54]

50. That is a temporary illness not a condition and he certainly has not said he is tired.

The attempts to push him out started long before he got covid, I do not see this as a reason for him to step down. There is something else going on here and it appears to be dirty politics.

[claudette]

53. I don't see

it as dirty politics. If President Biden chooses to be out it is HIS choice. He knows how he feels. I trust him to make the right decision for HIM

[ImNotGod]

37. many top Dems rely on deep pocket donors because our system is broken, those donors are deciding the election now

and they may be handing this election to the orange nazi mho.

[LeftInTX]

42. Sadly, that's my fear.

[orangecrush]

40. Thanks for emerging

Thread trashed with deepest concern.

[budkin]

41. Amen

I feel the same.

[orwell]

44. The fact this this doubt is out in the open...

...from party leaders, is what is suspicious. The media is predictable at this point. dRump sells ratings.

If this were going on behind the scenes it would be understandable. The fact that it is so public is frankly appalling.

There are plenty of R's who hate dRump. In public however they project unity. RepubliCons fall in line, Democrats fall in love.

At least half of that equation is working...

[58Sunliner]

45. Nancy is caving to the donor class. It's class warfare.

[shrike3]

48. "I have been a DU member almost since its inception."

You joined in 2011. This site was founded in response to the Bush selection. Nice try.

[Chakaconcarne]

49. No flaming here, but you did start another dogpile on DNC leaders post....

[Owens]

55. Maybe Democrats should spend more time attacking Trumps viability!?!?

Impeached Twice
Rapist
Convicted Felon
Fascist
Tax Cheat
Thief
Grifter/Con Man
Narcissistic
3 years younger
Signs of Dementia - slurring words and falling asleep
Refuses to release tax and medical records (what are they hiding?)
Wife not around (not supportive)
He wants to be a dictator on day one
Idolizes authoritarians - Xi, Putin, Erdogan, Orbán and Kim Jong Un
Wants to trash the Constitution
Wants to execute military leaders
Project 2025 Manifesto

Just pick a few and hammer the Republicans with this!

[Gore1FL]

58. I'm fine with the train of logic. My issue is timing.

There was plenty of time to be worried.

She did not advocate for Biden to step down before the nomination phase started. She did not. Although she is not directly empowered by it, She has had years to advocate the exercising the 25th amendment.

This is simply bad politics.

[Pisces]

61. I don't think you should be flamed for pointing out the

Facts. Something is going on and I’m not sure we have all the information. I do know that True Democrats want to defeat Trump. I don’t believe Pelosi, Schiff, Axelrod, etc would be suggesting a change if the situation wasn’t dire.

[Plainsman1]

68. How to tell Joe to drop out

I think that all of the "famous" people making public recommendations for President Biden to drop out should STFU. If they want to suggest that the President drop out, they should do it in a PRIVATE meeting with the President ... or in an email to the President ... or a phone call with the president ... etc. It is a disservice to the Democratic Party for them to PUBLICLY undermine their own candidate.

[shrike3]

76. Exactly, Don't have the stones, I imagine.

[liberalgunwilltravel]

83. Agree entirely

And it is my understanding that’s how she made her concerns known directly to Biden. And to those who think just because I am a “low poster” I’m here to disrupt, all you have to do is look at my previous posts and you will see that’s simply not true. I voted for Joe in 2020 and will vote for him without question in 2024 if, as is likely, he will. And, I have voted a straight Democratic ticket since my first election in 1971. So flame me if you like, that’s your choice. I voiced my honest concerns and I expected blow back. I’m just disappointed that some think volume is value. That’s how money took control of our politics. But that’s another story.

[Big Blue Marble]

84. Nothing in DC stays in DC.

It is unrealistic to suggest that leaks will not happen. Leaks run the city.

[hay rick]

71. I am of two stomachs on this issue.

When Joe started to shuffle onto the debate stage, I was on my feet screaming at the TV before he got to his podium. The night went downhill from there. That fiasco can not be denied or unseen.

On the other hand, Joe is the best president I have seen since Lyndon Johnson. His accomplishments tower over those of his critics. I think only a very superficial and unworthy society would pitch a man's lifetime of achievement over his bad appearance on a single evening.

Joe has been pushed into an exhausting and futile round of repair appearances since the debate. It is unfair to Joe and diminishes the entire process. It caves to the assertion that a sometimes awkward public appearance is as important or more important than substantive policy and a demonstrated history of accomplishment. The problem isn't stuttering, old Joe. The problem is a bunch of juvenile media consumers (voters) and the shallow purveyors of trivia (the media) that feed them.

I am less harshly critical of Democrats who are wringing their hands and asking Joe to step down. There is a real problem that won't go away just because it ignores our calls for unity.

[yardwork]

77. I posted something similar yesterday.

I can understand that people are upset. This is not a great situation, any way you look at it. However, it doesn't have to be a disaster.

Some very very smart political minds seem to see a way forward. They know more than I do.