General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI've been here for some 20 years and I don't think I've ever seen so much goddamn FUD.
Every fucking rumor, unsourced comment, and bit of outright nonsense gets posted as if it's emanating directly from the mouth of God, and people immediately start rolling on the the floor rending their garments and gnashing their teeth and predicting calamity and doom without first even checking the goddamn source! Of course it's stressful, and of course some of our party leaders are being idiots or opportunists or bedwetters or some combination of those regrettable things, but we, observing from the cheap seats, don't know what's going on; we have little or no control over any of it. So how about if we all take a deep breath, go as Zen as possible, and just fucking wait rather than pounce on dubious sources and add to all the doomification with unsupported opinions. "Beatings will continue until morale improves," as the saying goes. No matter what finally happens we will have a battle to fight, and we need all the good energy we can muster. Rage and frustration aren't helping.
I learned a new word today: Ogichidaa, which is Ojibwe for "warrior." But it's not a warrior the way we usually define it. The ogichidaa is one who sacrifices himself for the good of others. His/her task is to take care of the elderly, the defenseless, the children, and those who cannot provide for themselves, to serve the community, and act as a barrier against evil. We need to be ogichidaa, fight whom we need to fight and not with each other, and above all, neither spread FUD nor succumb to it.
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MontanaMama
(24,722 posts)Same same same. Please DU, stop the circular firing squad. We have a more than competent candidate and administration. Do NOT believe the media right now. We are being gaslit every minute. The GOP is the party of chaos. Ignore them.
DENVERPOPS
(13,003 posts)We need unity, not everyone getting hysterical and shooting from the hip at every bit of the Republican owned and operated mass media, and Putin bombarding us with his propaganda, along with China, NKorea, and Iran.
bullimiami
(14,075 posts)
Torchlight
(6,830 posts)or from soneone working hard manning the keyboards in St Petersburg for this week's ruble-allotment by getting the overly-emotional to jerk their knees at Putin's command.
All things being equal, I'm voting for Biden in November. When ifs and buts are candies and nuts, the trolls will have a merry christmas.
mopinko
(73,726 posts)i didnt think it cd get any more ridiculous than impeaching a president over a blow job, but here we r.
somebody, many rich somebodies, r fucking scared to death of a 2nd biden term.
intheflow
(30,179 posts)to giving full party loyalty to a rapist, liar, and felon. I mean. We all know it was poutrage at the time, and then they stole the 2000 election with the help of the SCOTUS.
betsuni
(29,078 posts)Conspiracy theories spread by disruptors. More cynicism, fewer voters.
Sympthsical
(10,969 posts)Read enough, and you become familiar with how politicians disseminate information, what kinds of words the media use when discussing sources, and how to get an overall grip on events. Even if you don't know exactly what's happening, you're able to read between the lines enough to have a fairly good outline.
I'm a little dismayed of late that this ability to read, sift, discern, and form a working concept of circumstances isn't as widespread as one would hope.
It's devolved into, "I don't like hearing this. It doesn't count. It's not valid."
And one hopes the statement stops there and doesn't reach into "Russians and the wealthy are controlling . . ." What? The Democratic leadership? Large swaths of our Democratic representation? People should make their accusation overtly if that is what they mean. Why be pointlessly coy? People have been heavily intimating that here, and I don't like it. What happened to support Democrats? Don't bash Democrats? The party's having a moment, but I'd need an aircraft carrier rather than a bus to fit everyone flying under it at sonic speeds.
This is not what Democrats do. We're the reality-based community. We read, we think, we can grapple with unpleasantness. I'm not thrilled with how this is playing out either. It is baffling how it's taken the shape it has. However, I have a pretty good idea how we got to where we are, what various people are thinking, and what the likely course of events will be.
All the information is there. But if people refuse information that hasn't been processed for pleasantness and desirability, they're not going to understand things. And when people don't understand, they fear. And when they fear, they lash out.
And, honestly? Getting a bit tired of the lashings.
BunkieBandit
(133 posts)n/t
FreddyWhite
(88 posts)Great post! I am definitely interested to learn more about how media manipulates us, what words, what they say about sources, etc.
Can you gives us some resources to learn about this?
Knowledge is power!
Celerity
(54,408 posts)Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media is a 1988 book by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky. It argues that the mass communication media of the U.S. "are effective and powerful ideological institutions that carry out a system-supportive propaganda function, by reliance on market forces, internalized assumptions, and self-censorship, and without overt coercion", by means of the propaganda model of communication. The title refers to consent of the governed, and derives from the phrase "the manufacture of consent" used by Walter Lippmann in Public Opinion (1922). The book was honored with the Orwell Award.
A 2002 revision takes account of developments such as the fall of the Soviet Union. A 2009 interview with the authors notes the effects of the internet on the propaganda model.
snip
FreddyWhite
(88 posts)
58Sunliner
(6,330 posts)I too am baffled how it's taken the shape it has.
betsuni
(29,078 posts)There are never details or proof, I just get called naive. 
Convenient opportunity to use the old anti-Democratic insults. .
returnee
(925 posts)I do agree that many people are not good at processing news reports independently. What I don’t agree with is that all the information is there. What I know is that the Democratic Party leadership is afraid Biden will lose, and are likely also concerned about down ballot races. What we don’t know is EXACTLY why they think that, and how and why an alternative candidate can beat TSFConvict, while helping down ballot folks. There are reports that they are saying “the polls show…” this or that. Which polls, how well conducted? There are rumors that big money Dem donors are not happy with Biden for____?
Given that the cat is generally out of the bag, why aren’t those behind the dump Biden movement being more explicit. What’s the plan? Who knows, maybe the base would buy their argument. Right now, they’re splitting.
Dark n Stormy Knight
(10,484 posts)"People should make their accusation overtly if that is what they mean. Why be pointlessly coy? People have been heavily intimating that here, and I don't like it."
OK, but your last few paragraphs do the opposite of this. I understand you to be accusing others of obfuscation, but I don't know if I agree with you on the whole or not because you also obfuscate.
dem_4_lyfe
(33 posts)BunkieBandit
(133 posts)N/T
Response to Ocelot II (Original post)
Post removed
Ocelot II
(130,536 posts)What it's about is that people are assuming facts not in evidence and instead jumping to conclusions on the basis of whatever tweets or unsourced remarks they uncover. Some might, indeed, come from trolls; but usually these are promptly disposed of. And of course we know everyone is entitled to their own opinion (opinions are like assholes; everybody's got one), and to speak it. The problem is people making assumptions from whatever bits of detritus they find floating on the slimy seas of the Internet, and posting them as if they were The Truth - which is leading to unwarranted despair and demoralization. Your opinion is that it's time for a new ticket. You're entitled to that opinion. I just object to the posting of rumors and opinions as if they were established facts.
Emile
(42,289 posts)
Deuxcents
(26,915 posts)
anciano
(2,256 posts)
canetoad
(20,769 posts)And I agree. I've never done so much trashing, hiding and ignoring. There is some truly insane behaviour on show. K&R
usonian
(25,324 posts)And they're working on it day and night.
Only ChatGPT can make you a man (or woman or other) in 7 days. Or ...
Ocelot II
(130,536 posts)usonian
(25,324 posts)
soldierant
(9,354 posts)usonian
(25,324 posts)Not a single vote for any of them (it's not a poll)
Now, if you're talking about YOUR old man, well, good for you.
And him.
soldierant
(9,354 posts)talking about my husband. 40 years now.
But it you took it to mean i'm happy with Biden as a candidate, that is also true.
usonian
(25,324 posts)Now, I'm just computer guy. Fixed a phone problem yesterday. Over the phone!
I have the most wonderful daughter, and I tell her: "Whatever baloney I've gone through in life, I wouldn't trade it for any other, however opulent, or even full of Nobel Prizes or Tchaikovsky medals, because of what it brought about."
mcar
(46,058 posts)It is ridiculous.
Kaleva
(40,365 posts)
Sogo
(7,191 posts)
Ocelot II
(130,536 posts)ancianita
(43,307 posts)Worry and anxiety can become emotional habits. Many have had to break that need to trust corporate media and pundit class who've been perception managing the general public for decades.
Chomsky said it first and best in Manufactured Consent.
Then came Lee Atwater and his political scarification project of all things liberal.
Then came his trained operatives like Manafort, Stone, even Rick Wilson who sold autocratic leaning oligarchs on the program of maligning fact based communications to the point of politicizing science during the first wave of Covid.
One can be negatively emotionally groomed -- fear, uncertainty, and doubt aren't just something only sexual predators do.
When people come to think that reality can exist by consensus, we get the basis of the Republican Party, their mob boss and supporting oligarch class. It's why their oligarchs now spend so much money, time, and doctrine factory building, because they're maintaining Earth 2 so that they can eventually plunder the wealth of democratic nations' economies.
soldierant
(9,354 posts)To me, this is still one of the better places. I actually canceled my subscription today to the New Yorker Magazine, believe it or not.
ancianita
(43,307 posts)I'm still sticking with my 37 year subscription to the New Yorker because David Remnick is pro-Biden and pro-democracy. You have to admit that the New Yorker puts some pretty damning covers of trump out there.
I predict it will have more damning articles in the next 100 days. Generally, the FUD spreading print news world has thought itself immune from the 'official acts' of the felon narcissist; they hang with any rw oligarchs who own them, but whether they admit it or not, they will be saved from trumpcult's hate when Biden is re-elected.
After the debate I cancelled my NYT and Atlantic subscriptions that promote divisive FUD noise posed as news and analysis.
soldierant
(9,354 posts)"Doctors are increasingly wrried..." that was the last straw for me But I was going to cancel it when it expired anyway over the loss of Borowitz (I have found him on Substack fortunately) and also no new "Name Drop" quizzes.In a way, reruns should be the same for me since I know so few "notables." But somehow it isn't.
ancianita
(43,307 posts)just outweigh others. Like its latest cover, which keeps the pressure on ...
https://media.newyorker.com/photos/6691817ab5e4fab722283355/master/w_1600,c_limit/2024-07-22.jpg
calimary
(90,021 posts)And neither can WE.
I'm STILL, PROUDLY, ridin' with Biden.
ancianita
(43,307 posts)
Bitbit
(145 posts)I know there are more. I believe there are many. We’re only hearing from a few.
proud patriot
(102,514 posts)
Faux pas
(16,357 posts)
Rwheeler32
(4 posts)
mamacita75
(173 posts)20 years. I don't post much but you all are a lifeline. Thank you for posting this.
FreddyWhite
(88 posts)Thank you for an inspiring symbol! I was luke warm about Biden in the 2019 primaries, but I saw how the country coalesced around him, so I followed suit.
As I watched his actions during his term in office, I am so impressed with how hard and how effectively he fights just like your Ogichidaa quote! "His/her task is to take care of the elderly, the defenseless, the children, and those who cannot provide for themselves, to serve the community, and act as a barrier against evil."
Hi Electrifying Speech in Detroit last Friday proves it.
2:00 minutes in video ?si=2C7DegmYhAChwt5B
"We got your back!"
"I have your back, as well!"Joe roars.
6:37 minutes in video
Folks I'm the nominee this party because 14 million Democrats like you voted for me in the primaries.
You made me the nominee. No one else, not the Press, not the pundits, not the Insiders, not donors.
You the voters, you decided, no one else! And I'm not going anywhere!
iemanja
(57,757 posts)Because it's there. It's not just posted here to irritate you. It's the news of the day.
58Sunliner
(6,330 posts)
Hugin
(37,848 posts)
I am sincerely trying to maintain mine! FUD beware!
Tansy_Gold
(18,167 posts)And about a year before that under another. I know I've been here since before 9/11/2001.
The FUD is bad enough, the FUS on top of it has made me stop coming to DU even to read the news. As much as I've come to distrust MSM, I'm learning to distrust DU just as much.
We are a tiny portion of the electorate here. We aren't policy makers or decision drivers. We used to be better than this. We can be better than this again.
GoreWon2000
(1,461 posts)I agree with the original post. I do think people need to be careful with their news sources and be mindful that the corporate media is pro tRump/maga GOP and will try to show Biden and dems in the worst possible light. What we do know is that there's clearly a concerted effort by a small group of anti-democracy, wealthy and privileged mostly white anglo men to try to take our votes away in order to install their personally preferred Presidential candidate. I'm really having trouble finding the words to express my outrage over this concerted effort by this small group of anti-democracy mostly wealthy and privileged white anglo men who think they can disenfranchise the 14 million dem party primary voters who voted for Joe Biden. Who do they think they are? They don't run the Democratic party. We the people run the Democratic party!
This disenfranchisement effort by these anti-democracy, wealthy and privileged mostly white anglo men to take our votes away in 2024 follows directly in the footsteps of the 5 GOP SCOTUS judges who disenfranchised our entire country in 2000 by taking our votes away in one of the most anti democracy, unconstitutional rulings ever issued by the SCOTUS. They did so so that they could install their personally preferred Presidential candidate. That 2000 disenfranchisement was a disaster that our country is still being damaged by today. Now SCOTUS judge Samuel Alito and his horrendous Dobb's decision is exhibit A.
This current 2024 disenfranchisement hits so close to home for me because 15 of my more than 20 years spent volunteering on democratic election campaigns everything from local state legislative campaigns all the way to Presidential campaigns were spent in Florida. Because of my Florida election campaign experience, I instantly recognized this 2024 dem elite disenfranchisement effort as a copy of the 2000 GOP SCOTUS disenfranchisement.
I've been writing to all of the 2024 disenfranchisement participants that I'm aware of that I could find campaign websites for and I encourage everyone on DU to do the same. These people need to know that they don't run the Dem party and we won't stand for them taking our votes away.
The people involved in this 2024 disenfranchisement have the least to lose if tRump gets back into the White House. It's the Dem party base and our planet who'll pay dearly if tRump gets back into the White House. It's clear that this little anti-democracy elites cabal doesn't care one bit about the Dem party base. They need to hear from the Dem party base with emails, texts and phone calls loudly and clearly.
littlemissmartypants
(33,588 posts)I have been thinking about this very thing. I also think that bots and trolls have invaded us.
It's embarrassing to see so many people who have so little internal fortitude who claim to be leaders.
It's if we were practicing the mythical practice of carrying grandma to leave her high up on the mountain to die because she's outlived her usefulness.
Except instead of going home without her we stay on the mountain and ourselves risk dying in the snow.
We can't leave our President Biden on the mountain. We certainly shouldn't convince ourselves that there's nothing else useful we can do and leave ourselves and each other out in the cold to die.
Thanks for this, Ocelot II. ❤️
GiqueCee
(4,259 posts)... is my new favorite word. Thank you, Ocelot II, for the inspiration.
Brachylagus
(6 posts)Joe cannot have a disastrous 2nd debate. That would be an outcome from which there is little hope of recovery, regardless of Joe's stunning record. I sense that the 2nd debate outcome is what Nancy and others fear. It's a roll of the dice that nobody likes.
tosh
(4,453 posts)Righteous post!
claudette
(5,455 posts)FUD?
hamsterjill
(17,577 posts)I just looked it up because I didn’t know either.
claudette
(5,455 posts)👍😊
msfiddlestix
(8,178 posts)I have been strongly advocating to my friends and DU peeps to turn OFF the cable and Network news.
And KEEP IT OFF. I used to be very wired in to cable news MSNBC particularly and NPR/PBS/DN
First I cut out the chord to cable service, but also NPR and PBS along with Democracy Now !
After Biden's victory I began cutting out streaming Cable News all together with a few exceptional events. But the hostile press against Biden was clear to me very early on in his administration as they revealed early signs of what was bound to be ramped up.
I am now witnessing something far worse than I had imagined or predicted.
I don't quite know where this is going, but it doesn't bode well for our future. I wish it would stop now.
For the sake of our grand childrens along with the planet's future if not our own, I beg everyone to stop this destructive manifestation of loss and fear.
Please friends. let's just all take a breath and stop doing the job of that psychopath and his cult followers.