If ANYONE here, or ANYWHERE, thinks that blowing up our current ticket is going to "be just fine" then listen up:

[Deek1935]

* VP Harris WILL NOT just be "poofed in" as a replacement candidate because too many people orchestrating this fucking mess do not want her, and there are very legitimate reasons, fair or unfair, to question her viability at the top of the ticket for a national general election. (Don't get me wrong. I think she's wonderful. Just stating cold hard facts.)

* Without Biden we lose the incumbency and party unity keys, almost certainly handing the election to Trump.

* Does anyone think VOTERS will not want a say? Of course they will.

* If it goes to an open brokered convention, get ready for a cluster fuck of a bitterly contested MESS. And people don't vote for a party in disarray.

* Republicans in Congress and in the states and Republican organizations like The Heritage Foundation will absolutely file lawsuits to keep a new ticket off of ballots in many states. That WILL happen, and they are preparing for it right now.

* If Harris is not the new nominee, and it's VERY questionable, a whole new ticket will have to stand up a whole new national campaign with a whole new campaign organization and team in just a few weeks before early voting starts. What a fucking mess that will be.

* If Harris is not the nominee, hundreds of millions of dollars can NOT be transferred from Biden/Harris to the new ticket. All new financing will have to be put in place.

***All the while all this crazy shit is going on instead of campaigning against Trump, the R's and Trump are out there campaigning and telling the country what a FUCKED UP SHITSHOW we are. HOW CAN WE GOVERN THE COUNTRY WHEN WE CAN'T EVEN GOVERN OURSELVES???***

What a god damned fucking MESS. And this is all the stuff people who answer polls and who are saying "There should be a new nominee, bla bla bla" are NOT considering.

The whole thing is a GIANT CLUSTERFUCK. And totally self-inflicted. While Trump and the MAGATS are laughing their asses of at us. And I do not blame them. Talk about self-destruction. We are witnessing a MASTERCLASS in it. And all out of hysteria, fear, fallacies, and fantasies. What TOTAL SHIT!

[badhair77]

1. Nobody comes out of this looking good.

[Think. Again.]

4. I certainly hope someone is keeping a list of names....

...of the turncoats, we'll need that for the midterms.

[superpatriotman]

7. It is optimistic that you think there will ever be an election again

If we lose.

[Think. Again.]

9. I DON'T think there will be another election if we lose...

...I DO think we will win.

[mcar]

58. Biden and Harris do

[Demsrule86]

68. They do not...and what Deek said is absolutely true.

We will lose. He says it better than me but we will lose.

[CincyDem]

2. This whole shitshow is feeling like the first episode of a two-part MacGyver show.

It’s like they think someone is gonna jump up with a roll of duct tape, a paper clip, and a bic pen to fix all this.

[Think. Again.]

3. It's over except for the attention-getters....

The Chairperson of the DNC stated yesterday that Biden/Harris is the ticket that will be nominated.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219192966

[Deek1935]

5. I hope he and Biden's team are telling Biden and Harris to say "FUCK YOU" to the naysayers and to hang in there.

Not literally "fuck you" but you know what I mean. "We are NOT leaving! Period!"

[Think. Again.]

6. Biden and Harris have consistently done that since this attack began...

...I don't see any problem there, they're pretty strong people, those two.

[LuvLoogie]

51. I'm with literally "fuck you."

Those people absolutely deserve it.

[Cattledog]

8. Plus Trump gets a full month of campaigning while we sit idle.

[Deek1935]

11. YUP!

[Think. Again.]

12. Yeah, campaigning to half-size crowds and assassins.

[Texin]

38. Exactly! This needs to be SHUT DOWN NOW. The so-called media can keep their mighty Wurlitzers banging out

discordant noise, but the Dems need to settle their happy asses down and pull together to shut them down. ANY other candidates but Biden/Harris have ZERO chance of winning in November. ZERO. And if that's allowed to happen within this party, there won't be any *fair* election in future to worry about, because there will never be an election again. The Heritage Foundation will have set up a dynastic monopoly on power for minority white males in perpetuity.

[Easterncedar]

10. As our usonian said "Get upwind of the smokescreen."

We need to fight not to be played.

[Kaleva]

13. I don't worry about things I don't have control of ....

or that I have no influence over.

I do strive to control how I react to events.

Some are shitting their pants ,going into a depression or working themselves into a rage and that's their choice. I'm going to go with the flow and work to defeat Trump regardless of who our nominee is.

[unblock]

16. I'm with you... but I also have cash, a go bag, and a few plans

My grandparents somehow narrowly managed to escape the nazis. They had waited until after the last minute and got incredibly lucky, several times, to get out.

I have a Jewish lesbian trans daughter. I'm not waiting until it's too late if Donnie gets back in. There will be no guardrails this time.

[Kaleva]

18. You have a plan!

[unblock]

20. Several. One of them, ironically, is Austria

As direct descendants of a holocaust survivors, my daughter and I qualify for citizenship there. It would be ironic to escape a violent, hateful authoritarian by going back to where my mother and grandparents hate to flee to escape a violent, hateful authoritarian....

[Sympthsical]

48. Amen. People should do this more.

People have been talking about all the anxiety and panic and fear they're feeling, and I'm over here feeling fairly zen about things. Sure, I'm side-eyeing events and concerned about choices being made, but me personally, I'm pretty chill.

At the end of the day, I'm voting Democratic no matter what. I make my views known where appropriate. Just started thinking about donating to some candidates (have a few in mind). I only have so much personal power. And what I can't control, meh, it'll sort itself out one way or another.

Finished gym and early morning yard work, and I'm about to have the chillest day imaginable gaming and catching up on tv/movies. No one in D.C. is makin phone calls over here asking me what should be done, so I'm not going to act or feel like that is something that's happening right now.

[Kaleva]

50. Family is coming over to visit soon

After that, I'll be doing yard and garden work and also try make some progress on the chicken coop.

After that, I'll be cooking pork chops on the for dinner and then call it a day.

[Sympthsical]

54. Sounds like a perfect Saturday. Good on you.

Life's short and requires pork chops.

[Kaleva]

57. I learned a lot in alcohol rehab

Except how to quit drinking. I didn't manage to do that until 10 years later when I was trying to drink a can of beer, thought it tasted awful and I haven't touched a drop since.

[intheflow]

14. I don't think it's self-inflicted.

I think people are buying propaganda pushed by the media and funded by Republicans.

[Demsrule86]

69. Yeah that is self-inflected.

[soandso]

74. Republicans

Are controlling Democratic congress members and Democratic billionaires? Explain how that works.

[returnee]

15. Someone needs to expose...

…money bags who are in effect bribing downstream candidates (in reverse) with a mafia type protection racket: “Nice office you’re holding there, be a shame if something happened to it.”

[Susan Calvin]

17. If you have data on this, and I don't mean that in a snarky way at all

Boy would I love to see this as an OP.

[returnee]

26. I know there was one fat cat...

…that was open about. I can’t remember his name-but it’s out there. The rest has been suggested by certain Democrats or pundits in talking about maintaining and/or gaining majorities in Congress, and donor money drying up for people who support Biden/Harris. Wish I could be more specific. That’s why I said “somebody” needs to expose it. I’ll bet Biden knows. It’s a delicate and dangerous game that’s being played here.

[JustAnotherGen]

29. It's in a NY Times article

One is Tom Strickler and another is Abigail Disney.

[Susan Calvin]

37. Does it name names as far as the Senators and Congress people?

I mean, I know you can easily find the names of those who have turned against Biden Harris, what I mean is does it name names as far as linkage to campaign contributions.

[soandso]

73. Some more...

Walmart heiress Christy Walton and crypto investor Michael Novogratz headlined a high-profile group calling on President Joe Biden to end his reelection bid in a letter to the White House, multiple outlets reported Friday, as billionaires previously solidly in Biden’s camp join the growing chorus for the 81-year-old Biden to step aside in November’s presidential election.

Several other billionaires previously in Biden’s corner have reportedly expressed concerns about Biden running for reelection following his rocky showing in last week’s debate. That group includes Netflix cofounder Reed Hastings, who told the New York Times “Biden needs to step aside to allow a vigorous Democratic leader to beat Trump,” and Laurene Powell Jobs, who the Times reported was among a West Coast elite group privately alarmed about Biden’s debate performance. Billionaire Mark Cuban also told CNN last week it’s “worth considering” another Democratic nominee, though he has said he’ll still vote for Biden if he remains the only option against Trump.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2024/07/05/more-billionaires-urge-biden-to-drop-out-walmarts-christy-walton-crypto-titan-novogratz/

[Silent Type]

77. I know for a fact Walton and Cuban have been strong Democrats. Didn't look others up, but

bet they are too.

[soandso]

80. Well, yes, they are Democratic donors

and they're trying to call the shots.

[Silent Type]

81. I don't like the extortion either, but I think they want Democrats to win. These same people contributed heavily

to Biden in 2020 and since.

[soandso]

83. I think the point is

that that doesn't give them the right to lord it over the voters. And, being rich and privileged doesn't make them more equal than anyone else (except in their own minds). It also doesn't make them wise.

[Silent Type]

85. I guess they could have just stopped donating while saying nothing.

[soandso]

87. That would certainly be their right

unlike trying to hijack a decision that was already made.

[Demsrule86]

94. They want tax cuts.

[Silent Type]

97. So, after all these years of contributing to Democrats, they suddenly want tax cuts? I doubt many people who

are strictly after tax cuts would contribute to Democrats for 15 to 20 years.

[Demsrule86]

95. No rich SOB is going to tell me who to vote for period. We had a primary. They can fuck off.

[Silent Type]

98. I'm voting Democratic, no matter what happens.

[summer_in_TX]

107. James Carville persuaded them to boycott donating to Biden-Harris.

A sleazy move.

[Snarkoleptic]

19. I've heard chatter that big donors are driving the anti-Joe push.

AIPAC seems to be a common thread among Dems who are undermining Biden.
Netanyahu is pushing Israel to the far right and seems to luv tRump.

Here's the list of who publicly stated Joe should step aside-
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/07/17/democrats-that-want-biden-drop-out-list/74448644007/

I'd like to see a full rundown of donors pressuring the 27 Dem. reps and 3 Dem. Senators who are anti-Biden, despite his stellar list of accomplishments.
https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress

[Mr. Evil]

24. Not to mention,

probably a lot of Putin money behind it too.

[JustAnotherGen]

31. AIPAC?

I don't see this at the USA today link.

I didn't realize Christy Walton and Abigail Disney are members of AIPAC.

[BonnieJW]

32. There is also a list of mega donors

who are making big contributions to Joe and other dems. Steve Spielberg was one.

[Demsrule86]

70. It is all over youtube.

[Demsrule86]

71. It is all over Youtube. I posted it here.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cMhH1QAN3fA

&pp=ygUZRG9ub3JzIHRocmVhdGVuIERlbW9jcmF0cw%3D%3D

[soandso]

79. It's not just chatter

These are billionaire Democratic donors (multinational business and trust fund babies) who think they're entitled to run the whole fucking world. Here's one group who call themselves The Leadership Now Project (who elected them to be "leaders"??? - not I!!!) who sent a July 5 letter to Biden:

https://www.leadershipnowproject.org/presidential-nominee-to-protect-democracy/2024/7/18/leadership-now-letter-to-president-biden-supporting-a-new-nominee

Like who wants some Walmart heiress calling the shots? Nobody I know. Last I knew, Walmart depends on social welfare programs to make up for the shit wages they pay their employees and that equals CORPORATE WELFARE. These people are the predators!

[PatrickforB]

104. Yep. All about the naked greed of a few billionaire parasites, and the lust for power of a right-wing

prime minister afraid of losing power.

[tanyev]

21. And as someone pointed out in another thread,

Harris’s new VP choice would have to be approved by House and Senate, which you know would be spitefully obstructed by Republicans in both chambers, CONVENIENTLY leaving no Democratic VP to preside over certification of the presidential election. Who would it then fall to? Speaker Moses?

This just reeks more and more and more.

[Mike Niendorff]

22. This is 100% false, please stop repeating it.

The Democratic Party's choice of 2024 candidates is not subject to Congressional approval.

You are confusing this with the process for filling a vacancy which occurs during a VP's term in office.

These are two completely different things.


MDN

[tanyev]

23. I am talking about if Joe resigned now and Kamala became president.

It makes no sense to change the ticket at all if Joe is fit to finish out this term (which I 100% think he is).

[obamanut2012]

45. Exactly. And who would be President if something happened to Harris?

Mike Johnson, that's who.

[ecstatic]

75. If this scenario happened, why couldn't we blast republicans day and night about jeopardizing US national security

It's one thing to hijack a supreme court nomination, but to prevent the seating of a VP is traitor territory and completely irresponsible. I think the pressure would be too much for them to withstand.

[obamanut2012]

46. And, we also get President Johnson

If anything happens to Kamala.

[soandso]

82. Uncharted territory!

Who says a Harris VP would have to be approved by the house and senate? Who is making these rules???

[tanyev]

88. Amendment 25 of the Constitution.

Amendment Twenty-five to the Constitution was ratified on February 10, 1967. It established and explained the complete order of presidential succession, as well as a series of contingency plans to fill any executive vacancies. The official text is written as such:

In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

[soandso]

91. Biden not being the candidate

is not the same resigning the presidency. He insists he is NOT stepping down as the nominee and he sure as hell isn't going to resign his office!

[tanyev]

93. In post 21 I was talking about IF Biden resigned now and she became president.

I don’t think he should, but it also makes no sense for him to remove himself as candidate if he continues on as president.

We are saying the same thing.

[soandso]

100. Gotcha

I don't see that happening.

[former9thward]

90. It does not have to be approved.

Her choice of VP would be her choice not congress. Some posters are alleging that Biden would have to resign being president. That is not true.

[soandso]

92. Thank you

and I just realized that people are conflating two entirely different scenarios. Lots of bullshit flying around. Another one is that Putin is behind all of this. SMH.

[4139]

25. We would be giving Trump a stick to beat us with:

“ Harris is an illegitimate candidate”, “Democratic Party is a threat to democracy”…


He will try to pound us with this

[BoRaGard]

27. Ridin with Biden

all the way. Getting my Christmas ornaments prepped.

[XanaDUer2]

28. Over one debate. Nt

[BonnieJW]

33. It's not about the debate

It's about the money

[piddyprints]

30. The question is:

How do we make our voices heard? Write to our reps? I live in TN... need I say more? If we aren't constituents of the ones calling for all this mayhem, they just won't read it. I did write to President Biden and Hakeem Jeffries to let them know how I feel. I'm wondering if I should try anyway with Jamie Raskin, who has lost my respect with his asinine baseball analogy on Chris Hayes the other night.

I am so scared and so discouraged. They have taken the best president in my lifetime and shit all over him because something something something old. I have never been asked to participate in a single poll in my life, and they have certainly had plenty of time to call me. I am feeling completely disenfranchised. Sure, it comes with the territory living in a red state. But I always assumed the Democrats would do the right things for us nationally. Boy, was I wrong! They are killing our chances of keeping the rapist felon out of our White House! And if they think they'll keep the Senate and gain the House by disenfranchising their base, they are the ones who are cognitively impaired. I just want to cry.

Any Democrat who goes on the TV to talk to anyone should have one and only one message: We support President Biden 100%. Period.

[Blue Full Moon]

34. Almost as if some want trump to win.

[sarchasm]

35. 1000% agree

If Biden/Harris goes, so does the presidency.

[waterwatcher123]

36. Totally Agree with You - a Self-inflicted Wound by Party Insiders!

[jmbar2]

39. What is the plan?

1. If TFG/Vance are elected, P25 goes into effect day 1.

2. If Biden/Harris are elected, P25 DOES NOT go into effect.

3. If Dems run a new slate and lose, P25 goes into effect.

I don't want to take chances on option 3.

What is the FOOLPROOF PLAN to prevent P25?

[Kaleva]

52. The plan is entirely up to you

Nobody knows your situation so no one can make up a plan for you.

Given that there's just a few months till the Inaugural, you probably are out of time anyways .

[jmbar2]

63. My questions are rhetorical

Anyone going for Option 3 needs to explain how that won't tip us into fascism.

If they cannot make a damned good case, I'm sticking with Biden/Harris.

[Kaleva]

66. If Biden does drop out, how will you do that?

Stick with Biden/Harris?

[58Sunliner]

40. Down to the last detail. I just wonder who they have in mind to take the knee for the oligarchy.

[sanduca]

42. I smell Russia from my house

I'm telling you folks, Putin's dirty hands are all over this.

Russian Communist leader, Nikita Khrushchev said, “We will take America without firing a shot. We do not have to invade the U.S. We will destroy you from within.”

[soandso]

86. So you think that

Putin is controlling congressional Democrats and Democratic donors?

[sanduca]

110. No!

He's helping trumputin and his magats create the dump Biden bs. They started it but coward democrats fell for it.
Republicans support their criminal. Democrats let President Biden down.
At the end it will bite republicans in the ass via Kamala.

[kansasobama]

43. Pelosi and Obama legacy is on the line

Pelosi has put her head deep into this and Obama has also done the same by his prolonged silence.Constant insult of Biden has already weakened the ticket. History will look down upon 2024 Dems as the most gutless after shooting their own nominee and losing. I hear the only ticket that can survive is Harris-Kelly. However Clooney has other plans which no one knows. It is pretty much a donor class. That does not bode well for 2024 Dems.

[BannonsLiver]

47. Aaaaaaand under the DU bus goes Obama

Called it yesterday.

[soandso]

89. And Clooney

doesn't even live in this country.

[S/V Loner]

44. Not to mention the ballot lawsuits the RNC.....

already have ready to go to challenge the legality of the ballot change in GOP controlled State Legislators. Whether legally valid or not they will eat up time and their judges will slow walk the suits as much as possible.

[Zeitghost]

60. There are no ballots to change at this point

Nobody has been nominated by the Democratic Party who's official candidate is guaranteed access to every ballot in the country.

[dlk]

49. Tech bros, with obscene amounts of cash, intend to rule the world

They will pay off anyone, get in bed with anyone, in other words, do whatever it takes to succeed, as we are watching in real time.

Trashing a decent man, like Joe Biden, whose agenda has succeeded beyond anyone’s wildest dreams, and has covered tremendous distance in realigning our country to bring back the middle class, is their aim. Just imagine what President Biden could accomplish in a second term. It’s clear the bros are not having it.

It will be up to us to save our democracy.

[Sneederbunk]

53. The longer Biden waits, the easier it becomes for Harris.

And the nullifies know it.

[Demsrule86]

72. Harris will not be the candidate. They don't want her either.

Biden will be the official nominee in less than two weeks.

[doc03]

55. The Republicans couldn't do as much damage

as Democrats have done to ourselves.

[myohmy2]

56. instead...

...of ferociously attacking trump and aggressively defending Joe they've created this self-destructive mess...

"The whole thing is a GIANT CLUSTERFUCK. And totally self-inflicted."

...

[iemanja]

59. How do you know those orchestrating the movement to push Biden aside don't want Kamala?

This is the second time I've read this on DU, and I've asked for a source but received nothing. Everything I've read suggests she would be the likely successor should Biden decide to withdraw. She's been meeting with donors. The party has been polling her favorability, etc...

[Aepps22]

64. AOC

I think this feeling is based on what AOC said. It wouldn't surprise me if that were true.

[iemanja]

67. I missed that

I just looked it up. Thank you.

[soandso]

99. Remember the "mini primary" being floated

Rep. James Clyburn, D-S.C., was the first major figure to publicly suggest the party could survey potential Biden replacements by conducting a “mini-primary,” a proposal echoed by New York Times columnist Ezra Klein and longtime Democratic political consultant James Carville.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/07/10/brokered-convention-open-convention-or-mini-primary-democrats-float-plan-b-as-bidens-fate-in-doubt/

That would force Harris to compete for the spot as the nominee.

[iemanja]

101. That doesn't rule her out

[soandso]

103. True enough

but it wouldn't mean she was the default candidate, either.

[republianmushroom]

61. Nails it.

[pinkstarburst]

62. People are naively assuming Harris wins at the top of the ticket

I have my doubts.

I like Harris. I think she's capable and smart. But she has NEVER polled well.

She had to drop out in 2020 in the primaries. Her popularity has never improved.

Hillary could not win in 2016 despite being immensely more qualified than 45 due to this country being deeply sexist and not believing a woman can be president. Harris will face that same sexism plus racism due to her being a black woman.

And from California.

Then there are voters who won't like the idea of their vote getting taken away. They voted for Biden. We shouldn't be subverting the will of the voters 3.5 months before the election and any time you ask who should be VP, you get 20 different answers, so that will piss people off too.

Personally, I think Biden never should have run again, and I said that from the start. But he made the decision he did, and now we have to get behind him, and shut up with this talk about changing the ticket. We will not win if we change the ticket at this point.

We need to stick with Biden in 2024, and then have a full democratic primary in 2028, letting VOTERS decide who they want at the top of the ticket.

[tanyev]

96. Yes. And if Harris or other new candidate did not instantly skyrocket in the polls,

would the Pass the Torch bros start screaming to replace that person? This is madness.

[Rstrstx]

102. But we DID vote for Harris

We selected her to be Plan B so please stop it about subverting the will of the voters. Anyone voting for an 81 year old has to realize there would be a good chance something might happen to him, nobody has been duped. And Biden was in much better shape when most of us voted, which was around the time of the SOTU address. The come-from-behind campaign he is trying to pull off has not been a failure but it is killing him, first it was a bad cold now it’s covid, and he will probably get sick again if he keeps this schedule up. It would be extremely hard on someone half his age.

[pinkstarburst]

108. No one voted for her to be the top of the ticket

She was never my choice in the primaries, and as a voter, I really resent the sentiment I keep reading here on DU that no one else can replace Biden or no one else can "move in front of Kamala Harris" without it costing us votes in certain voting blocks.

Just because ONE PERSON chose her to be the VP does not mean that she automatically inherits the right to go next and be president. No. Just stop with this. If she is to be at the top of the ticket SHE HAS TO BE ELECTED by the voters in a primary. Otherwise it is absolutely subverting the will of the voters. So why should I have a problem with them putting Newsom or whoever else they think can actually win at the top of the ticket? No one is listening to my vote anyway.

[Rstrstx]

109. You have to take that into consideration when an 81 year old is running

But as you know by now it’s a moot point

[Politicub]

65. Nothing good can come from any of this now. I want to be wrong about thinking that.

I’m am so stressed and burned out. It feels like the media is completely in the tank for Trump and the GOP.

The GOP has a rousing ‘first they came for the immigrants” moment, and it sunk like a stone in the media. Then Trump delivered his vile acceptance speech, and the bulk of the reporting focused on the first couple of minutes when he masked his crazy.

It feels like we’re collectively lying on the railroad tracks in front of a freight train barreling towards us and our democracy.

[OnDoutside]

78. I cling to the thought that this is the July silly season.

We need more people to come out and steady the ship. The Clintons were a good start.

[LonePirate]

76. What is your solution for getting out of the hole we're in because the current strategy is not working?

[Hekate]

84. Deek, this is exactly how I feel & what I'm thinking. Instead of imagining the youth vote as a faceless bloc...

…the other day I suddenly thought of myself as a 20 year old in 1968. That was the year of my political awakening, when a friend who’d transferred to a different college would come back to talk to our small group of friends and talk politics (and incidentally see his girlfriend) .

We thought we could change the world. Involvement in Gene McCarthy’s presidential run changed my life and got me involved in Democratic politics forever. Even the murder of Bobby Kennedy couldn’t take that away.

But what if I, myself, were 20 years old today? I had to realize that instead of engaging me in politics — well, let’s just say this, if the people trying to oust Joe Biden from the ticket succeed, and the much-predicted shitshow ensues and Trump/Fascists get back to DC with their Project 2025 Bible in hand — I think those young voters will disengage forever. I very well might have done so myself.

Still just trying to formulate that thought — it was shocking to think it.

[LiberalFighter]

105. As for those polled about having a new candidate.

Did they take the time to vote in their primary?

More than likely not.

[RipVanWinkle]

106. I guess I need to buy a new popcorn machine.

And a new rocking chair, with a good supply of Kleenex.