Allan Lichtman has a point.

[Swede]

Link to tweet

[Walleye]

1. Right now, I am enjoying the luxury of not having to worry about what Joe will do. I just trust him.

[onecaliberal]

9. Omg, me too. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

I never have to worry about what he’s doing. He told us and unlike the other Piece of shit, he’s not a liar.

[colorado_ufo]

21. Count me in!

[PortTack]

51. Same here!

[Irish_Dem]

2. Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff, Raskin are not spineless people.

This is an unfair description.

We don’t know what is going on but spineless is not accurate.

[lame54]

10. We trusted and admired them...

Now, if we lose to Trump, it's completely their fault

[Irish_Dem]

12. Yes the metric is the election.

We shall learn in November who was right or wrong.

[lame54]

14. I already know who's wrong

[Irish_Dem]

16. I do not have enough data to be certain.

There is a lot going on behind the scenes and we are not privy to all the information.

[lame54]

18. And that is one of the big problems...

The secrecy and the "Trust us on this" attitude is insulting and causing blood pressure to rise across the nation.

Plus - their refusal to give a name is infuriating

[Irish_Dem]

22. Yes they need to start giving more information.

I believe they have the names of the replacements.

You don’t make this kind of huge brouhaha without the plan in place.

[Demsrule86]

35. We can agree to disagree. I think everyone should rally behind our nominees.

[Irish_Dem]

64. Yes but the reality is they are not doing so.

So they need to give more information or shut up.

[Demsrule86]

75. No, they shouldn't. Kind of makes me chuckle that some progressive who long bitched about money in politics and

rightly so, are now saying it is OK to let the money bastards choose our nominees and that we owe them any explanation. We don't . The proper response is fuck you and then find out how they make money and boycott whatever it might be. For example, I got rid of Disney.

[EastBayGuy]

55. and it's not Kamala, according to AOC's own video.

[Irish_Dem]

63. AOC knows who they have in mind?

Did she give any hints?

[Skittles]

62. they have blown it

the way they have "handled" this has been disgusting beyond belief

[Irish_Dem]

65. I agree it has been handled badly.

The whole thing is very odd.

[Demsrule86]

80. Me too...those who orchestrated this mess and supported big money.

[Irish_Dem]

85. The truth will come out about what happened.

[Demsrule86]

34. We will never know for sure...and the metric is not the presidential election.

[Irish_Dem]

37. I thought the goal was to beat Trump and the PutinGOP?

What is your goal?

[William769]

56. My goal is and always has been and I would hope every Democrat I know feels the same way

Is to keep Democracy alive and to triumph over anyone who stands in the way. So yes, triumph over beating Trump and the PutinGOP is a great place to start and the only way to do that is to stand behind the President of the United States, President Joe Biden.

Anyone who is not behind President Joe Biden is only going to help to put a dagger in Democracy. If President Joe Biden is replaced on the ticket this close to the election, Say goodbye to Democracy.

Patriot - a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors. That is nobody in the gop, it is definitely not trump. It is also nobody in the Democratic party trying to foul up the 2024 Presidential election by trying to get President Joe Biden to step down.

I hope I have made it very clear where I stand on this matter.

[Irish_Dem]

58. I am a Democrat and support my party.

I will vote for the nominee in November.

[Demsrule86]

79. Of course I want to beat Trump. But I have worked elections for many years and I know we will lose voters...just as

we did in 2016. You don't think Biden voters are passionate You are mistaken. And some may sit this out. That is a fact..I wonder will those who orchestrated this take responsibility for a loss? Probably not. The money people want Trump anyway.

[krkaufman]

83. Scale is tipped.

Nope. We can now not EVER know how the election would have gone had Democratic politicians and their affiliated donors remained united behind the nominee. The election is now a question of whether Biden can now overcome these additional hurdles thrown in front of him.

[Tweedy]

19. How about caught inside of a Republican false frame?

Are you certain the people you name are with this bad notion?

You are correct that none of the people you have named are spineless. If they are in board with this ugliness to disenfranchise us a short time before early voting starts, they are ensnared inside a gop frame. It is a stupid framing too. Saner heads will surely prevail! If the nay- sayers were right, I should have known President Mondale for President Reagan had a bad debate and was down in the polls
closer to the election and he went on to carry every state but one.

We should all help our Democratic friends to free themselves from that false framing as fast as we can.

I do not want to see Liz Cheney in front of a kangaroo court before her permanent detention in Guantanamo while Mr trump has us shot in the street for protesting such a horror. That was such an odd sentence to write!!

We need to win this for all of our tomorrows.

[Irish_Dem]

26. Pelosi is very shrewd and sophisticated.

She has been aware of GOP and Russian tricks and traps for many years. She is the one who has been warning us about all roads leading to Putin.

It is low probability that she and the others have fallen into a GOP/Russian trap.

[Abundance77]

29. Not so sure

How do you just give up on a President who accomplished so much in one term?
I can't and I won't. How dare they keep something from the voters in a so called democracy? I think money and power plays into all of this.

[Irish_Dem]

31. Possible but low probability that Pelosi has gone to the dark side.

Yes of course money are power are involved.
We just don’t know exactly how.

[deurbano]

44. Zero probability she has gone to the "dark side." We may disagree with what we

think is happening or what we think her role is in it, but she has not gone to the dark side.

[returnee]

61. Sometimes you don't know you've been trapped...

…until you've been trapped.
I’m thinking it’s more about the donors, but in these times you can’ never rule out interference from Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, or Israel.

[BumRushDaShow]

38. "Pelosi is very shrewd and sophisticated."

She's also 84 years old.

It's ironic that "old people" are telling "younger old people" that they are "old".

Biden has actually been in politics much longer than she has. He was elected to the Senate in 1972 (sworn in 1973) and she was elected to the House in 1987 (to finish out the term of her predecessor).

Consider the 15 years MORE of experience.

In this case, it's not the Russian trap but the MONEY trap.

[Irish_Dem]

53. This is not just about Pelosi.

We have Schiff, Schumer, Raskin, three sitting US Senators and a list of house representatives. We can add up the total number of years experience between them.

We have a wide variety of ages.

Yea of course this is about power and money.
This is the definition of politics.

Do I think all of these people are Russian assets or fallen for putin’s tricks? Possible of course but lower probability.

Do I think they have gone to the dark side and are happily selling out our country, our party to the billionaires? Possible but I find that hard to believe.

The logical explanation is that for whatever reason they do not see Biden as the source of power and by extension money. We can guess why this is but don’t have enough data right now.

[BumRushDaShow]

59. Follow the $$$$$

That's all it is.

Biden has become a walking talking Bernie Sanders (where I never thought I'd see the day out of a moderate/centrist who was a Senator in a state that was so corporate friendly that corporations actually incorporated there).... except he was actually able to get legislation through that Bernie and Elizabeth Warren have been pushing for some time but were unable to get enacted.

The oligarchs don't like it.

The tax cuts for the wealthy expire at the end of 2025 and a campaign promise was to let it expire except for those with incomes of $400K and below.

We have Schiff, Schumer, Raskin, three sitting US Senators and a list of house representatives. We can add up the total number of years experience between them.

Schumer hasn't come out "publicly" like Raskin or Schiff and neither has Pelosi. The "in private" hearsay has been pumped up for propaganda purposes.

We have a wide variety of ages.

Some of that "variety" are close to age - e.g., Lofgren is 76.

Yea of course this is about power and money.
This is the definition of politics.

That's why one wonders why other factors are being promoted to insinuate about Biden that have nothing to do with "politics".

Do I think all of these people are Russian assets or fallen for putin’s tricks? Possible of course but lower probability.

The Russian assets are the GOP. But the data that feeds into these "polls" could easily be from their troll farms since many of those polls are "internet" ones. Remember what happened with Europe and the media propaganda that saturated the world with expectations that the RW loons there, lead by Le Pen, were going to take over (most immediately in France). And that didn't happen but it was a media-driven red flag for the type of propaganda that they could unleash, and served as a warning for us.

We saw their influence with the media distortions saturating the airwaves with Brexit too, where that foretold our own 2016 election. The disaster of Brexit and its aftermath, is something that the UK's newly-installed Labour Party is going to attempt to deal with now.

Do I think they have gone to the dark side and are happily selling out our country, our party to the billionaires? Possible but I find that hard to believe.

After Citizen's United when unlimited money could be pumped into campaigns, many of them "took advantage" and that started the ball rolling into the need for more and more money to run for office.

What is different between then and now is that the oligarch class has always been "in the background" pulling the strings. They lobby our representatives day and night. But NOW with the tax cuts expiring after almost 10 years, they have decided to boldly reveal themselves, and show us all who they "own" and control.

The logical explanation is that for whatever reason they do not see Biden as the source of power and by extension money. We can guess why this is but don’t have enough data right now.

They want their tax cuts and Biden doesn't want to give it to them.

The irony of all this is that Biden has actually provided quite a bit of benefits to the oil oligarchs, because under his administration, the U.S. is now the number one producer of crude. I.e., the "drill baby drill" has happened - under him. Big pharma had also initially benefited with pandemic funding. But in that case, the move to require prescription drug negotiations has pissed a bunch of them off.

DU has been filled with tens of thousands of posts about the "oligarchy" and a push to remove them. And now we are experiencing what happens when you try because we have witnessed that the pigs got hit and they are squealing like mad.

[Irish_Dem]

66. You make a compelling case.

But I just cannot believe top dem leaders would sell out their base and country for cash.

And dump a president who could win the election.

Not for any amount of money.

I am as cynical as they come but it doesn’t make sense to me.

I think there is a piece of missing information.

[BumRushDaShow]

68. I think there is an unfortunate view

that "inherent racism" doesn't exist among Democrats.

It is there, it is pervasive, and it doesn't take much to ignite it, stoke it, and watch it explode.

It happened in 2012 when many within the party "ran away from" Barack Obama after his push for the Affordable Care Act. Biden is aware of that period because HE WAS THERE as VP when the trashing and bashing commenced.

The "polls" - notably the glorified "gold standard" Gallup, predicted that Romney would win.

What's different today is that there is much more social media to magnify the discord and thanks to the billionaire-funded efforts, there are now pod people who they fund, who are joining in.

Right now it is starting to flare up as entire constituencies are being thrown under the bus in exchange for $$$.

There are shady billionaire PACs that have now created astroturf, purported "grassroots" organizations, almost identical to the teabaggers of 2010, that are being highlighted for promotion of the discord. The most "visible" at the moment is the fake "Pass the Torch" group. They are also starting to delve into the actual pledged delegates to create and fund more astroturf groups of supposed "delegates" who would want to disrupt the delegate vote.

These are times (and I have posted this multiple times in the past) when I wished that John McCain and Russ Feingold had made the push to "fix" or "tweak" their campaign finance law to adapt it to whatever the SCOTUS was complaining about. But since that time, the SCOTUS has turned into a RW death machine that will be difficult to dislodge unless we get Biden back in.

[Irish_Dem]

69. The best way to make money is to win elections.

Then you have the power to make as much money as possible.

Winning elections and power is the coin of the realm in DC.

If indeed what you say is true then our entire government is now corrupt on both sides. We have been sold out lock, stock, and barrel to the billionaires and our fascist enemies.

I just don’t believe it yet. Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff, Raskin, Sherrod Brown, etc.

Their entire adult lives as public servants and they sell out our country for cash.

[BumRushDaShow]

70. "The best way to make money is to win elections.'

Then you have the power to make as much money as possible.

Winning elections and power is the coin of the realm in DC.

That all depends on your constituency because if you don't respect them, they will throw you out of office.

If indeed what you say is true then our entire government is now corrupt on both sides. We have been sold out lock, stock, and barrel to the billionaires and our fascist enemies.

That was the point and end result of "Citizen's United".

I have to continually remind people WHAT prompted that case in the first place.

Simply put, it was a legal dispute over this -



A RW-loon produced purported "documentary" that was being used as a GOP anti-Democratic party campaign ad.

In other words, it was "electioneering" by a corporation, which was forbidden by the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law (Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002).

The SCOTUS disagreed and basically declared that "corporations were people" with 1st and 14th Amendment "rights, and they summarily tossed that law out.

I just don’t believe it yet. Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff, Raskin, Sherrod Brown, etc.

Their entire adult lives as public servants and they sell out our country for cash.

Raskin only got elected in 2017 so he is still "new". But the others have been in office both before and after Citizen's United and the whole ground shifted.

Sciff represents a district of MILLIONAIRES (Hollywood and the surrounding area).
Pelosi represents a district of MILLIONAIRES (the San Francisco elite who can even afford to live where she does)
Schumer originally took over the House seat of one Stephen Solarz (ewwww), who was caught up in the House banking scandal. Being in NY, he was friendly with of course "Wall Street". Then he became a Senator.

And in the case of Sherrod Brown - like other "swing" candidates, who did the same to Obama back in 2010 guaranteeing a Democratic wipe out in the House, he is "running away from" a popular incumbent who did "big things" because his consituency is a broad mix of liberals, moderates, and conservatives.

[Tweedy]

43. Show me Nancy Pelosi on the record with this

I have not seen it anywhere.

Of course this is a Republican frame. Have you not been watching? The gop has thrown everything at the wall to frame President Biden. Everything but the ketchup 😉

This is the same health frame the gop ran against Secretary Clinton with Russian help.

The original poll way back in 2003! that claimed voters thought President Biden was too old (but suspiciously not the felonious former president) was brought to us by a trumpie in disguise.

Brought to us by this guy

« What the Journal does not mention anywhere is that Fabrizio also worked as the chief pollster on Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign. And since the start of 2023, Trump’s super PAC, Make America Great Again Inc., has paid Fabrizio’s company more than $567,000, according to FEC filings.« 

https://newrepublic.com/post/175387/wsj-poll-showing-trump-biden-evenly-matched-trump-helped-pay

This has gop frame written all over it. It began with them. It has been vigorously pushed by them and the frame apparently got embedded in the minds of some folks who might be a little too on line. Sinclair pushed this narrative out for weeks before the debate on people’s local news channels.

So that when President Biden stumbled, as all humans do, the worm was there whispering in everybody’s ear.

The gop does this stuff all of the time.

Edmund Burke was not a conservative.
The English cut off King Charles’ head because they so loved sovereign immunity. The founding fathers believed in privacy passionately and believed life begins at quickening. To the gop all of the verifiable truth I just wrote is wrong.

Divorce yourself from the gop frame as fast as you can. It is toxic.

[Katinfl]

23. I agree they are not spineless.

So do they know something we don’t? This is beginning to really worry me because I respect them and don’t know where they are coming from.

[Demsrule86]

28. You are so concerned...how nice. I don't think so...I believe the root of all evil is money.

[Tweedy]

45. No. They don't.

This is the usual Democratic Party freak out. The stakes are just much higher and the angst ridden are louder.

The MSM does not seem to care about this but like every president and presidential candidate before him (except our felonious abusive ex-exec) President Biden’s medical records are public. His entire medical history is in the public domain.

If there was anything even remotely hinkey in there, you better believe the GOP would have been shouting about that from the beginning.

[Demsrule86]

27. Stop it. Neither Pelosi nor Schumer has suggest Biden step down...it was always from sources.

As for Schiff, that is likely money-related. It is too bad. He will never be able to win a primary for the presidential nominee. He may even face a senate primary in six years . Biden is the presumptive nominee and it is over.

[Irish_Dem]

30. This is a discussion forum and I am discussing.

I am saying our party leadership is not known for being spineless.

Which complies with forum rules.

I am supporting my party.

[Doc Sportello]

52. We do know what's going on

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219193849

Please read the whole post of EarlG. Hits it on the head with informed backing articles.

And no, Joe is NOT done.

[we can do it]

57. Leave Pelosi out

[PAMod]

73. True, but they are showing weakness right now.

Weakness is never beneficial.

[choie]

84. How about venal

[hlthe2b]

3. He's right (in a previous inteview)-- had Biden's staff not talked him into that debate BEFORE the convention...

we would not be having any of this discussion. Post-convention and official nomination, we would all simply be chaulking it off as a bad debate--just as occurred with Obama against Romney in his reelection bid.

(and yes, Pres. Biden COULD have insisted on the debate being when it was, but this really strikes me as political strategy gone bad).

[TwilightZone]

4. They were always going to rally around the nominee.

If anyone believes they were all going to just bail on Democrats or support Trump, I don't know what they're smoking.

The whole point of all the hubbub was to ensure that Trump loses in November. We may not agree with their methods or decisions, but they think someone else would be better suited to do that.

Regardless, the whole point is to beat Trump. On that, everyone agrees and always did. Some of the other motives being ascribed to them are pretty bizarre.

[lame54]

11. Their will be people so pissed at this that they don't vote

[orange jar]

20. If they sit out, don't vote, and help Trump win,

then they will be part of the problem. If they're willing to fuck the country over just because they're in their feels, then they deserve every bit of criticism that other types of pouters get.

[lame54]

24. They WILL be part of the problem...

Manufactured by this attempted coup

[Demsrule86]

46. Ok...lets get this right. Of course they should vote but maybe some conclude it doesn't matter if they vote because

the big-money folks are in charge. Do you know how many times I have heard that the person I called on was not voting because 'they are all the same'? And we only call on registered Democratic voters.

[Demsrule86]

49. That was the case in 16 wasn't it with no interference with primary voters.

Pease note refer to the General election loss not the primary.

[Nasruddin]

40. Voters at the margin

This is true - there are people at the margin who will say, if not this particular nominee, I'm out and not voting at all.
On the other hand, there are other voters on the other side of that boundary - I'll vote for anybody, but not this
nominee. (There are also some other choices.)

You have to hope that the people advocating one side or the other have gamed this out and know, among other things, which of
those two cases dominates. They also need to know where this dominates. It doesn't matter if it just affects some
voters in California - frankly, we just don't count. It has to matter in PA, MI &al.

[Demsrule86]

76. And the fact that Johnson will keep us in court with no clear nominee and no ability to get our candidate on state

ballots...sure....By the way, Johnson said this- not...reliable sources like the bullshit lies coming from those who want to appease donors and don't care if we lose the presidential election.

[Demsrule86]

32. The problem is forcing any elected presumptive nominee out... he won the primary would rip our party apart...

Money/fundraising has already been circulated as a reason for this attempt to destroy our projected nominee. And Biden Democrats might stay home. I would vote of course if I could, but I live in Ohio so I expect I would not be able to. I would not be alone of though after the GOP went to court to get whoever off the ballot especially in swing states. And who knows what other damage a contested convention where the primary voters were ignored could cause?

[Demsrule86]

33. The problem is forcing any elected presumptive nominee out... he won the primary would rip our party apart...

Money/fundraising has already been circulated as a reason for this attempt to destroy our projected nominee. And Biden Democrats might stay home. I would vote of course if I could, but I live in Ohio so I expect I would not be able to. I would not be alone of though after the GOP went to court to get whoever off the ballot especially in swing states. And who knows what other damage contested convention where the voters were ignored could cause?

[Silent Type]

5. I think we have Democrats' votes no matter who is on the ticket. However, it really comes down to how the undecideds

break.

Personally, I cannot understand how anyone can be undecided at this point, but apparently 10 to 15% of votes are undecided.

[Demsrule86]

39. I have worked elections for years. And I do not believe we get enough Democratic votes...some will stay home

or whatever. You can't rip a party apart and still win. Biden has supporters. I don't think all of them would vote if Biden wasn't on the ticket. Many would rightfully say the nomination was stolen from them- the primary voters because of money and give up...it could have long-term effects too in terms of trust.

[Silent Type]

48. I will keep my eye on the prize, beating trump. I hope others do the same by voting for the Ds on the ballot in Nov.

If not, we'll have to listen to trump for at least 4 more years.

[Demsrule86]

50. Yeah we will and it is self-inflicted wound...leave Biden alone.

[Demsrule86]

77. You are kidding yourself...voters here have said they won't. Wishful thinking on your part...Some Democrats will

stay home and we will lose...snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and emboldening money assholes. I know many of you have been lukewarm about Biden but he has more followers than you think, and they will be pissed. The nomination is being bought by big money. And voters are aware, Thus I expect some Democrats to stay home. I will of course vote for the nominee if I can. I live in Ohio so it may be that no candidate will be on my ballow. I doubt we will have nominees on more than a few ballots with Johnson suing. There is no time to deal with this mess.

[Silent Type]

78. I would hope Democrats don't stay home, that's kind of how we got trump in 2016.

[TRHST82]

6. He's most likely right.

But the media will still play it up.

[duncang]

7. That!

I don’t think they thought this out. Biden stays in and they do what? They put themselves in this position. Honestly I think it will bite them in the butt. When the gop runs ads in their state saying they wanted Biden to drop out will it make them lose votes? President Biden has a lot of support.

[Demsrule86]

41. I am worried about Sherrod Brown. I think it was unwise to make any comment.

We need that seat, and he is a great Senator.

[FBaggins]

67. Brown is in a challenging situation

There hasn't been much recent polling out of Ohio, but Brown is outpolling the president by 15+ points in the ost recent one that I've seen... and probably has to outpoll him by at least ten points to win the race.

That means that there six or seven hundred thousand people who are going to vote for Trump that Brown needs to appeal to.

[Elessar Zappa]

8. Of course they will.

They don’t want a second Trump term anymore than we do.

[PATRICK]

25. They victimized themelves

perhaps for inevitable donations from a few. Now they will be hurt down ticket no matter what and sell out more to veer to more deregulation and protection of donor wealth. This is a Mammon trap they are already in, a test with nothing but pain. It hass zero to do with the superior candidate's competence and more with Truman and Teddy Roosevelt hard turn to represent national and people's interest. The media then sided with the GOP to trash the policies and the men for the sake of the big bucks. To temporarily solve the inevitability of Dem big tent voter supremacy they snuck in celeb(Eisenhower,Reagan) cheating, the Southern racist strategy, Citizen's United and subverting the imperfect Dem leadership. In this race to the bottom the Dem felt forced to compete in this same path to Hell on earth.

The only reason they did not resort to dictatorship or military takeover sooner i that connected multi millionaires who are dumb sociopaths were more willing and charismatic than any military leaders on the "right".

Wealth itself is a moral hazard. Having more of anything than your neighbor is a hazard.
Every dollar can be a seed of destruction until compassion goes, hate and fear multiplies with interest, sociopathology and evil fills the human shell. Then utter madness and destruction of anything in its power. Regardless of the untruth they tell themselves or others. God haters in the ultimate most banal hypocrisy.

[Demsrule86]

42. That is not true. When voters think they were screwed, many stay home.

[Elessar Zappa]

72. Then they're just as bad as the ones who stayed home in 2016.

And it will be on them if Trump wins.

[Demsrule86]

74. You mean like 2016...What do yo think will happen...And Johnson plans to sue. Thus we likely will have no

nominees on many state ballots. Yeah get prepared angry voters won't care.

[wryter2000]

13. I hope he's right

I thought after Trump's ridiculous speech, the subject would have changed yesterday.

I imagine they could still keep bleating Biden should turn it over to his VP. God, I hope not.

[mcar]

15. But the damage is already done

Rs are no doubt making ads right now showing Dems calling for Biden to drop out.

It will always boggle my mind that they did this - and the way they've done it. Not in private meetings, but leaks to a media that has been anti-Biden for a long time.

[Cha]

17. Whoa.. .. Alan Lichtman is Really Putting himself Out There

TY Swede!

Link to tweet

[BWdem4life]

36. Apparently some things never change...

[markodochartaigh]

47. Personally, I will always vote against the authoritarian

wehrmacht that the Republican party has become. That means voting a straight Democratic ticket. So the controversy doesn't affect me politically at all.

But I feel horrible for President Biden that his energy in his golden years is being spent this way. Although, if he is having to battle these wealthy opponents publicly now, I'm sure that he has battled them many, many times before out of public view.

And I think that the only message that the Democratic party, leadership and base alike, should have now is, "If you want to fight against authoritarianism, vote for the Democratic candidate in every race". In a way it is fitting, the authoritarian party is committed to their Strong Leader. The Democratic party is committed to strong ideas.

[anglesphere]

54. He reinforces his argument in many YT videos

including this one with MeidasTouch:

?si=DhL2M-Y8gTducnX_

[Susan Calvin]

60. They can rally all they want,

But this Democrat isn't going to forget their names.

[D23MIURG23]

71. Nice to hear them called what they absolutely are. n/t

[Freethinker65]

81. Or they could all pull a Manchin?

[Renew Deal]

82. No one must question Alan Lichtman