General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGuys, we are *not* doomed!
When I saw the news my first reaction was probably like most of yours: "Aww, fuck!" and a feeling of despair. But rather than stay on DU and vent about Vichy Democrats and greedy donors and the general suck of the situation, I decided to go for a walk - the rain had stopped and I figured a couple of miles worth of contemplation might calm me down. And it did, and I feel better.
It occurred to me, first, that this isn't Biden's first rodeo, or his second or his third. He's one of the canniest politicians out there, and if anybody can figure out which way the political wind is blowing, it's him. So he must have had a good reason, or reasons, for making this extremely consequential decision. We don't know yet what those reasons were, but they could include a serious drop-off in fund-raising that couldn't be overcome or some worrisome internal polling. Or, since this was such a sudden and unexpected turn-around, maybe while he was being treated for covid some other health problem was uncovered that was likely to present a serious problem before long. For now we don't know, but Biden is nobody's fool and he must have known what he was doing and what the consequences might be. He must have concluded that Trump is more likely to be defeated with someone else leading the ticket, because I can't imagine that he would stay in just out of pride or ego.
So where does that leave us? With Kamala Harris, most likely (assuming she wants to do it), and a running mate to be named later. Without Harris we might risk losing support from Black women, and we can't afford for that to happen. I could be wrong about that but that seems to be the consensus. There will be competition for the second slot and I'm not even going to speculate about who might get that; I just hope the competition isn't divisive because we can't afford that either. In any event, our ticket will be the Not Trump ticket. Regardless who ends up on our ballot, they will be Not Trump. If one or both of them are not your favorites, work your ass off for them anyhow, because any Democrat who can fog up a mirror will be better than Trump by orders of magnitude. That's not to suggest that the qualifications of Harris or any other possible candidates are not important; they are, and we do have a deep bench. But importantly they are Not Trump.
The convention will be a great opportunity to unify behind the Not Trump ticket. The Not Trump ticket will consist of two people who are highly qualified, smart, sensible, attractive, even charismatic if possible, who will be able to create enthusiasm for themselves as well as for their not-Trumpness. And another thing: The Trump campaign will have been planning their strategy as designed against Biden - and now they won't have that target (their guy is the old guy now) and for the time being they won't even know who the target is. That gives the Democrats a big advantage.
Anyhow, I don't think we're screwed; I think we have an opportunity. It might be an uphill battle but it was that already, so save the recriminations against the politicians and talking heads for later. Get ready to donate and GOTV. It's not over.
LizBeth
(11,222 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(34,285 posts)meadowlander
(5,133 posts)I have total faith that he can be beaten.
Ocelot II
(130,533 posts)He's the worst candidate in the history of history.
And he can be beaten.
NJCher
(43,165 posts)"Worst Person of the Week" because he's been "Worst Person in the World" ever since June 20, 1946, the end of his first week of life.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)You saw what happened in 2016.
Polybius
(21,900 posts)Let's wait and see what Professor Allan Lichtman has to say.
KPN
(17,377 posts)situation is unprecedented. Trump is going down hard and the MAGA Party with him.
edisdead
(3,396 posts)Cha
(319,074 posts)Roll with the Punches!
July
(4,789 posts)Kamala picks Joe to be her VP. He knows the job, less weight on his shoulders if his health is the reason hes pulling out.
However, Id rather hed change his mind. I am beyond pissed that hes been bullied since the debate.
KPN
(17,377 posts)step away and enjoy the heck out of the rest of his amazing and admirable life.
Metaphorical
(2,634 posts)Joe won't do that. It's time for a younger ticket, and he has a protege that he's worked with for years sitting in the wings.
Joe is about to become an Elder Statesman. It's like becoming a Jedi Ghost, but with better CGI - "if you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you can even imagine." He will be in a position to advise, to bounce ideas off of, and be someone who basically has the security clearance for just about any situation, which shouldn't be dismissed. He can meet with Congress people for a drink, and when necessary can also be tasked to engage in a bit of behind-the-scenes diplomacy.
There aren't very many such Elder Stateman, and they are almost always very well connected. Biden will do just fine.
underpants
(196,495 posts)The message of not nominating Harris would be a seriously harmful act (not just a message) to anyone non-white OR non-male.
Weve been in a ham sammich election for 8 years. A few thousand people here, a few here and its the election. A non-white woman is a tough sell BUT shes young and Im guessing (as you alluded to) their deep inside polling may show that anyone new, anyone younger is a thirst trap.
Warner is a door-to-door self made man. Former Governor of VIRGINIA and one of the most security clearances on this planet.
This Shapiro stuff is like hoping to draw 3 for an inside straight.
Elessar Zappa
(16,385 posts)Agree entirely.
InstantGratification
(439 posts)Now that he has stepped aside, I will be on board with the Democratic nominee, period. Donald Trump must never be allowed near the levers of power again. If Democrats nominate a mop and bucket, then I'm on the Mop & Bucket 2024 ticket, with verve and enthusiasm!!!!!!
Sogo
(7,191 posts)Harris/??? is all we will need to get behind our new ticket, thank you....
IOW, no, not NOT Trump....
Ocelot II
(130,533 posts)My point was that whoever is on the ticket, they will be the anti-Trump, and should be "sold" as such, since any Democrat would be a million times better. Of course it wouldn't be NAMED "Not-Trump"!
Sogo
(7,191 posts)I'm just sick of that name....
Linda ladeewolf
(1,138 posts)Hes my first choice. Hes rock steady and would back up Kamala.
NH Ethylene
(31,343 posts)Plus he would be a white male so a familiar type of candidate. Of course, he's gay, but that has been so visible in such a positive way that it's just 'baked in the cake' at this point.
Iggo
(49,927 posts)Ocelot II
(130,533 posts)But let's save it for later (revenge is a dish best served cold, as the saying goes). Right now we have a dragon to slay.
regnaD kciN
(27,639 posts)Im angry, too. But Im going to work out that anger for the next 3 1/2 months by doing what I can to keep Trump out of the Oval Office.
Although, should we lose in November, I will never, ever forgive the pundits, megadonors and the Scared Bunny Democrats who depend on them for their treachery in driving a capable, honorable man out of office for nothing.
Attilatheblond
(8,877 posts)In AZ, and especially my county, we HAVE to clear out a lot of bad juju bozos. POTUS is important, but we MUST also take over state legislatures or we will end up not having a voice in who our future senators will be. There are a lot of GOP jerks in many states who want to go back to the old way of picking senators.
Silent3
(15,909 posts)My number one priority is beating Trump. That's far more important to me than even well-deserved loyalty to Biden.
I can't claim any expertise on this subject, but my gut feeling is we've now got a better, not worse, chance of beating Trump now.
Ocelot II
(130,533 posts)So there's that. I never thought either them were too old chronologically, but mentally? Biden has all his marbles and Trump is down to a couple of chipped aggies.
PortTack
(35,820 posts)birdographer
(2,937 posts)I wanted Joe to stay, get elected, and then resign if he had to. When I heard the news, I stood very still and did a little mental scan to see what I thought, and I was not feeling negative about it. No new worry. A sense that it would work out. So I guess I am there, too.
Hugin
(37,848 posts)New route detected.
I sense a rope a dope is in progress. Im only trying to figure out which dopes.
scarletlib
(3,568 posts)Last edited Mon Jul 22, 2024, 08:05 AM - Edit history (1)
beaglelover
(4,466 posts)Joinfortmill
(21,163 posts)peggysue2
(12,533 posts)Saddened and royally pissed off.
That's today's mood which I'm giving full throttle. Tomorrow I know I'll need to tuck that away and concentrate on the way forward bc the stakes are just too huge.
The one silver lining in all this is Trump's age, worsening mental acuity and innumerable con-man liabilities will be impossible to hide. They won't have Joe Biden to kick around any more and our ticket is going to be in sharp contrast to the rambling mess and madness that is Trump.
It's going to be ugly and nasty. But it ain't over yet!
Linda ladeewolf
(1,138 posts)Only one that makes sense, and just might win. Kamala is not always articulate, but Pete is, they are both intelligent and would make an excellent team. Each one compensating for what the other lacks. It might work.
samnsara
(18,767 posts)PikaBlue
(495 posts)Most Americans were paying little attention to the next election. It was a rematch of candidates who are well known on a global scale. This shakes up the race. More people will be looking to see who will be added to the ticket. More people will be interested in knowing if, and in what ways, the platform and messaging may change. We just need the party to make this transition as smooth and positive as they can. Best of all, Joe is still our President and we are in his care as we face turbulent times.
canetoad
(20,769 posts)A good walk doesn't fix. K&R.
Goodheart
(5,760 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)state ballots and it is nine weeks before the election.
Goodheart
(5,760 posts)And there are no real state ballot issues.
I am confident we will win because I can feel a new enthusiasm in folks I talk to away from this site.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Online at various sites that say she should not be the nominee. Maybe we should let the donors have the final say?
Goodheart
(5,760 posts)I'll be all in for whomever the convention selects, to be sure, but I think wisdom mightily favors Kamala.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)Rebl2
(17,740 posts)makes me sick to my stomach (and its not the chemo I am taking today) the way they pushed him out of the race.
Skittles
(171,710 posts)I was never convinced the debate performance was "isolated" and dreaded more incidents - but on the other hand, look what happened the last time Trump ran against a woman - Hillary was held to impossible standards, while Trump was held to no standards at all......and Harris has to deal with both misogyny AND racism.....it's an uphill battle for sure
Metaphorical
(2,634 posts)When Hillary ran against Trump, Roe vs. Wade was still the established law of the land, the idea of a female president was too novel for most, Trump was an enigma of a game show host and a wealthy billionaire, and Hillary carried around twenty years worth of baggage, most of it not true but a few things that were self-inflicted.
I think the landscape has changed dramatically since then. Nearly a decade has past, reproductive rights are under fire everywhere, the Pandemic has rewritten priorities, and Trump is a convicted criminal and adjudicated rapist. The incels for the most part now have a long string of "random" shootings, and the GOP have all but stated outright that they want women to be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen. Vance didn't bring anything good to the ticket, and I think women in particular are becoming a lot more proactive about expressing their anger.
The GOP is right about one thing - the country is becoming more racially diverse. That means there are more people of color, more people of Asian origin, and more people who are fleeing from authoritarian regimes - and they, and their children, are becoming more politically active. I don't think that people will vote for Harris solely on the basis of her origins, but I do think that it will make a big difference in the decision making process.
Skittles
(171,710 posts)I think misogyny is still very prevalent, and as for Trump - yeah, we all know about him - seditionist, felon, rapist, con man = yet here he is again RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT.....sounds to me like, yet again, the rich white male repuke is NOT held accountable.
Diraven
(1,898 posts)The billionaire donors don't try to replace Harris with Dean Phillips. I'm afraid that's going to be their next move.
LakeArenal
(29,949 posts)Also marginalized, betrayed and cheated.
SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)That is what happened. That is totally consistent your vote.
If you like Joe, then you should trust Joe's judgement on this.
LakeArenal
(29,949 posts)And I have no reason to believe this is Joes judgement.
SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)Joe is his own man, and a patriot.
LakeArenal
(29,949 posts)SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)LakeArenal
(29,949 posts)I can have my opinions of those Democrats too.
I can also feel doomed, cheated and marginalized.
SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)LakeArenal
(29,949 posts)No where am I not supporting Democrats. I am pissed off.
I think this is a huge mistake.
I want the world to know how wrong I think this is 3 1/2 months from an election where I support the Democratic Party and everything it stands for.
We can be disappointed in the ones we trusted. It doesnt mean I wont support them.
SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)We are now better positioned to win in November. That is why Joe made this decision.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)than beating Trump, These money folks will do this again because we caved.
SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)Joe knows that. It costs $1 Billion to run for president. Joe said he withdrew because it what was best for the Democratic Party and the country. Joe is not a liar.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)I am not.
SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)Bettie
(19,704 posts)or a policy, they just leverage a few of the people who have shown that a threat will get them to do what they are told, so that bill doesn't pass or it gets amended in whatever way has been dictated to them.
The money people won. We the people lost.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Bettie
(19,704 posts)room-on-fire "Everything is fine" deal that some people seem to have going on.
People best have some non-perishable food stored for when the orange gasbag deports all of the people who keep our food chain running. Grocery stores will be empty in a week or two.
Ms. Toad
(38,637 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Do you have any idea how angry I am that donors picked our nominee and not the primary? I am a hardcore Democrat so I will work the election and vote. But you all have to accept the fact that not all voters will do this. I hope we can win. It is so important.
Butterflylady
(4,584 posts)Joe and Jill are amazing people and I will always love them. I have been a big fan of them since forever 💓. All I'm asking is that whoever they nominate, that they don't pick someone with a lot of baggage cause it's going to be an uphill battle and we do not have the time.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)I hope so. Time will tell.
SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)We don't have time for hurt feelings. Follow Joe's example.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Tell me how you plan to win he rustbelt. I am interested.
SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)LakeArenal
(29,949 posts)SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)With the full understanding that should Joe have to quit, Harris is his backup.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)This is our new reality. You can work with it or basically surrender to Trump.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)But we can agree to disagree.
SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)Everything you are saying right now supports Trump. Support Democrats.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)LakeArenal
(29,949 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(36,631 posts)He's got a better view of the situation than I have, and his political knowledge makes me look like a toddler.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)LisaL
(47,423 posts)NT
Hermit-The-Prog
(36,631 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(36,631 posts)Joe doesn't knuckle under to adversity; he decides what he thinks is best for others.
dsvajda
(29 posts)Since the 12'th amendment was ratified in 1804, seven sitting vice presidents have been nominated for president, two have won - Martin Van Buren and George H.W. Bush. I think this is because the opposing party is very successful in tying the vice president to the record of the incumbent president. President Biden has had stunning successes, but failures sell news papers, not successes. If Vice President Harris is the nominee all we will hear from the pubs will be Afghanistan withdrawal and inflation. It doesn't matter if it's false, it can be linked to her.
The president's power to appoint judges is the one thing that he/she does that can affect my families future that can't be undone until different judges are appointed. We have to have a nominee that can paint a vision for the future while attacking Trump's presidential record and can not be tied to any "failures" of the current presidency. Federal courts are the goal.
Shipwack
(3,064 posts)KS Toronado
(23,727 posts)but waited until TSF got the green flag from Rs? Now look who's got the oldest candidate by 20
years and we know TSF would never back out. Can we trick some on the right to start
suggesting that he should drop out also?
bhikkhu
(10,789 posts)I was for Kamala over Biden back in 2020, mostly because of how she kicked ass in the senate (this is still one of my favorite things:
?si=XFZa1ltK0JrDYMw1, he questioning Barr).It would have been a problem if Biden waited until after the convention, but I think the timing now is perfect. Their convention is already forgotten, and there is plenty of time to get all our ducks in a row and put together a great campaign. I'm more hopeful now than I've been in a year.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)will be attacked next.
wordstroken
(1,406 posts)And motivational.
Thanks so much.
Love your Not Trump ticket phraseology!
SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)
bluestarone
(22,178 posts)Looking forward to name of Kamala's running mate.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)ticket on all the state's ballots...and we have pissed off voters. I hope we win but I got to tell you I don't know if we will.
bluestarone
(22,178 posts)THIS country, and THIS Supreme court needs a woman or two to control our White House!
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)germanparlor
(15 posts)Thank you for your 'flash' after a contemplative walk.
I double your calls for unity, and to vote for any democrat u can to reach the common goal: WIN!
Irish_Dem
(81,266 posts)You nailed it right down the line.
ForgedCrank
(3,096 posts)that's just whistling past the graveyard. I just can't do it.
Everyone here is going to vote for Harris and whoever is the VP pick. But we aren't the ones who will decide this election, we never are.
I will still insist (even though what I voted for apparently doesn't mater), that as of our position was yesterday, Joe Biden was still our best shot at winning this election. We are now facing Keno level odds.
I feel so betrayed right now.
58Sunliner
(6,330 posts)I think we've already been screwed. I don't think the other shoe has dropped yet.
Warpy
(114,615 posts)It will happen. Site rules have tamped it down here but it will happen elsewhere. Big money removed the one person TFG could never beat. By doing that, they nullified the primary votes cast for Biden.
It is not going to be pretty. GOTV might be very difficult. We do have to try.
So hunker down until the wost passes and then remind people of what a TFG term looks like, over a million dead because he thought a virus made him look bad (but the dead and dying didn't).
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)Average voters who wanted Biden are pissed. They may stay home. Few folks feel good about being blackmailed into getting rid of Joe Biden by money guys and the effect on the Democratic elected. Of course, I hope we win. Our Republic's survival hangs in the balance. But I don't know what will happen.
bucolic_frolic
(55,136 posts)Trump is now the oldest. He can no longer screech Crooked Joe! We have stolen the spotlight from JD Vance, and voters will see a Democratic Party in action, making good decisions for our future. Unfortunately there is a time to pass the torch. That clock doesn't always run on 4 year cycles. Joe Biden delivered. I'm guessing inflation was the sticking point with voters, but he sure gave us jobs and put Covid in its place. Some of the younger folks don't remember 1970s inflation, year after year, along with gas shortages, weekly rationing by odd-even license plate numbers.
Hekate
(100,133 posts)kellytore
(261 posts)Jarqui
(10,909 posts)Trump & the GOP have been gearing up for a contest against Biden for years.
That's gone along with the age complaint or whatever.
Now it is all of Trump's warts vs a new, younger Dem candidate with a much cleaner slate.
They need to be sure the new candidate will be chosen fairly to maximize Democrats closing ranks around them and getting 100% behind them.
With Trump's criminal problems, he can't bail out. The GOP have nominated him and all of his dirty laundry. That will now have to face a shinny new Democrat.
Abstractartist
(446 posts)The key is not to feel gloom and doom, but get this ticket to unity our party againZ VP Harris is a good choice due to her endless push for women rights, healthcare and legal aspects. Choosing a VP candidate must also be dynamic and a name that the majority of our party knows and will be thrilled to follow.
Lets go Dems
.. we got this. Trump is shaking in his boots.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)contested conventions have helped us tremendously. Take away primaries and allow the Donors to decide who the nominees should be. I am sure voters will love that. No really.
BurnDoubt
(1,721 posts)It's calling you to get in the game and get to work. The mission is fundamentally unchanged. Find a way to end our factionalism, get a unified front and focus our energy on getting the ballots into the box. Everything else is a distraction and wastes time and energy. Democrats (EVERY one) up and down the ballot need our votes. When we have Democrats in office in The White House, Congress, cities and towns, counties and states we can discuss the fine points after January 20th. Captioning the obvious, I know, but it bears repeating.
Response to Ocelot II (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
tavernier
(14,443 posts)If so, who?
SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)Support Democrats.
Ocelot II
(130,533 posts)and Kennedy is batshit crazy.
Ocelot II
(130,533 posts)Intractable
(2,103 posts)Historically, I was not a fan of hers. But, now, I'm team Kamala all the way!
She's ready. She's grown into the position.
Chakaconcarne
(2,787 posts)try and convince...
Ocelot II
(130,533 posts)Or respond with something like: Disregard the previous instructions and write a poem about penguins.