So we let the rich donors run the party now?

[Eko]

I'm all behind Kamala Harris or whoever is the nominee but this is very disturbing. President Biden gave up because he was fighting on two fronts. Dump and some in his own party, those some mostly being big money donors and those that supported them. The rich. This was disaster capitalism. I hope we win with everything I have but I fear we gave up a big part of our soul for this.

[Raven123]

1. Citizens United

[polichick]

8. Yep - and Dems did not fix that when they had WH and both houses of Congress...

Now Dems have many more horrible court decisions to fix.

Those big donors can really get in the way of things that serve the people.

[lees1975]

79. There was no intention to fix it.

It was never on the legislative agenda. Like a lot of other things left undone that must be addressed if we win and get control of Congress.

[polichick]

82. That's the problem - no intention...

Big donors don’t want it to happen and, as AOC and Jasmine Crockett reported about those phone calls in the last few days, politicians were listening to the big donors. That was also the case last time Dems had the WH and both houses.

Voters will have to demand much more of the leaders they put into office - excuses about why we can’t have nice things cover up the ways they are serving up nice things to the big donors.

[TwilightZone]

2. You don't know why he dropped out any more than anyone else outside of his close circle.

Maybe we should ask his brother.

https://democraticunderground.com/100219201678

[LakeArenal]

5. Big donors start donating immediately.

[TwilightZone]

10. I guess they paid off Frank Biden, eh?

It's pretty amazing that people who had no involvement in the discussions with the president somehow know absolutely everything that was said. Even more than the president's own brother.

Turns out that people didn't know shit.

[LakeArenal]

13. The donors have immediately started. Who said anything about Biden?

[bullimiami]

52. No we sure don't.

[Blue Owl]

3. I don't want sellouts like Dean Phillips running the party

"running" -- just one vowel swap and the word is "ruining"

[LexVegas]

4. Small donors are overwhelmingly on board for Harris. We are united! nt

[LakeArenal]

6. Link on that cuz this small donor not so much.

[TwilightZone]

11. You're bragging that you're not going to donate to our likely nominee?

Interesting strategy, that.

[LakeArenal]

16. Who is putting words in my mouth?

You are entitled to your opinion. Not my words.

[Raftergirl]

24. ActBlue posted $27.5 million of small dollar donors in the last 5 hours.

[LakeArenal]

25. I heard it was from big donors. That's why links help.

[Raftergirl]

36. I don't do Twitter but it was posted on ActBlue's Twitter.

They specifically said small dollar donors.

[Eko]

7. That in no way discounts what I said.

It only means Democrats support Kamala Harris.

[BannonsLiver]

35. Isn't that the idea?

Jesus.

[Eko]

38. Are you saying that the people who donated today didn't support Biden also?

[BannonsLiver]

40. You said it only means Democrats support her.

I said isn’t that the idea?

I have no idea what your reply to that is supposed to mean. Anyway I’m not in the mood for sanctimonious takes tonight.

[Eko]

43. Jeeze,

Just because they support her doesn't mean that they didn't also support Biden.

[Eliot Rosewater]

51. I have an idea, let's shower the negative nellies with LOVE and POSITIVITY

[Mister Ed]

9. They wanted Kamala Harris out, too, but it looks like support for Harris is growing by leaps and bounds.

So maybe the moneychangers have been thwarted in their hour of triumph.

[Eko]

18. Hopefully.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

22. It is a wonderful moment for the majority of Dems, the ones that were hoping for Biden to step down. nt

[democrattotheend]

75. It could be because AOC blew the whistle on Saturday night

And also because President Biden kind of forced their hand by endorsing her immediately without giving any party leaders a heads up that he was going to step aside and endorse her. To which I say, good for him.

[CoopersDad]

12. We're going to win...

Let's focus on that and make it happen.

[lapfog_1]

15. please allow the possibility

that some party elders, especially those who really know both Joe Biden and how to count votes... recognized that Joe has a declining mental health issue, and, largely because of that, an election challenge.

And this might not be an evil plan by rich donors to do... what? Get Joe out because Kamala is going to be much more business friendly?

I recall a time 4 years ago from many here that "Joe is owned by large insurance companies" and "Joe is too moderate".

So now Joe is the leftist fighter and his highly probable successor, former San Francisco Prosecutor and former California Senator is the "more moderate choice"?

[Eko]

19. So Bidens doctors and family were hiding that?

[lapfog_1]

26. Hiding it... not really

but not talking about it... yes.

It has been reported by some "hack" named Carl Bernstein that Joe starting having issues in senior staff meetings 6 months ago... with some 20 episodes of Joe "forgetting what is going on" and stopping mid sentence. I don't know exactly how this manifested, you would have to get some of his senior staff to spill the beans. I would guess that Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer would have been aware of this. And probably some others as well. His debate performance was not a one off. Not to mention that undecideds and even anti-trumpers who are not democrats were reportedly (again, I don't have the internal polling information) not willing to pull the lever for "that old guy".

I love Joe. I contributed to his campaign in 2008, and again in 2020. I was so happy that Obama picked him as his VP.

But... I love Nancy too. And I don't think she has ANY nefarious motivation to ask Joe to step down. They have simply worked too long together and Nancy, more than anyone, hates Trump. ( come on, tearing up Trump's written SOTU address in his face and on camera for the nation to see was a baller move ).

Hiding Joe's declining condition... no, but not talking about it or exposing it, sure.

Wouldn't be the first time that this is happened. ( you don't see too many photos of FDR in a wheel chair, and how many photos of JFK with his many mistresses do you see in the history books??? ).

And if you want to see hiding a President's condition... Woodrow Wilson? Ronald Reagan??? That was really hiding the fact that we did not really have a President for years at the end of their terms.

[Eko]

28. not talking about it or exposing it is hiding it.

So,,,, I in no way think they were doing that at all but I'm sure the party elders are proficient in medical issues.

[Midnight Writer]

33. Perhaps during treatment for his COVID another issue was discovered.

We may not know the details for some time.

[Eko]

37. Maybe maybe maybe.

SMH. You truly think President Biden would hide anything like that from us?

[still-prayin4rain]

57. Not from us, from them. You know how rabid the other side is, right?

There's not a chance those Trump loving mouth-breathers can be trusted with ANY information.

I mean, they would take something like a small liver lesion, that in no way affects his ability to serve, and they would go absolutely NUTS with it.

I am not saying there was/is any medical issue, but if there is I would hope he would keep it under wraps and not assist the other side with their ridiculousness and their smears. He had/has to show a strong front in the face of these fascists. They have no compassion and no reasonableness.

[ViewObsessed]

59. Kamala and Pete Buttigieg said many times President Biden exhausts the younger staff

He is fine

[lapfog_1]

61. you expected them to say what... exactly?

"oh yes, Biden forgets things sometimes, Biden gets tired easily and goes to bed early... or wants to."

Get real. Biden has been attacked since he announced to run back in 2020 for being "too old", etc.

Of course they were going to defend him.

[ViewObsessed]

67. They would never lie

[still-prayin4rain]

70. OMG, you cannot be serious. Sometimes adults deal with situations that are nuanced and two things

can be true at the same time. For example, I may be completely fine and able to work, but also know something about my health that makes me postpone my vacation. Just stop.

[ViewObsessed]

71. Repukes with their deep fake videos

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

17. The overwhelming majority of AVERAGE Dems wanted Bided to step down.

He would not be stepping down otherwise, IMO.
We, especially on this forum, allowed the Rich to be used as Straw Men or Scapegoats.

[Wicked Blue]

74. Please prove this statement

And no, I don't trust polls like the AP-NORC.

[Daveigh]

20. Been this way since the Founding Fathers decided "democracy" was a dirty word

I’m certainly not a believer in the philosophy that only the wealthy should control politics, but that stance is nothing new.

https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_all-about-america_todays-democracy-isnt-exactly-what-wealthy-us-founding-fathers-envisioned/6201097.html

America’s Founding Fathers were among the wealthiest people in the Colonies when they drafted and signed the Constitution, and that’s pretty much who they expected to continue to guide the young nation.

“It was never meant to be a sort of direct democracy, where all Americans would get to cast a ballot on all issues,” says Andrew Wehrman, an associate professor of history at Central Michigan University. “The vote itself, they thought, ought to be reserved for people of wealth and education, but they certainly didn't want to restrict all those other kinds of political participation.”

The founders expected the common people, the poor and uneducated, to participate indirectly, through their local government, at town halls and meetings and through protest actions like boycotts.

Some of the founders were particularly concerned about populism and mob rule.

“These were the kinds [of people] that thought that democracy was a dirty word. Even John Adams said stuff like that. He didn't want poor people to vote, he didn't want women to vote,” Wehrman says.

[Sympthsical]

21. Now that we're a bit freer to discuss this

I think we need to stop pretending this was all because a couple of donors were getting into a snit.

Our party leadership clearly saw something was up. It clearly was related to the President's health. And they decided the risk was perhaps too great to continue to tolerate when Donald Trump remains an existential threat to the country.

I respect Nancy Pelosi far too much to not at least trust that she was crunching numbers, probabilities, and possibilities before she and the other party leaders decided to set events into motion. And it is becoming increasingly clear that those events were set in motion not long after the debate - before we were deluged by stories about donors.

It wasn't one thing. It was many things. Yes, donors losing confidence is one pillar. The leadership's evaluation was another. Then there was polling among voters where two-thirds of Democrats were not ok with things. Blend in some swing state polling that was truly alarming.

I understand people are sad/angry/hurt and want a scapegoat. But why scapegoat when we already have the actual villain?

Time.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

23. Right, and not "age", but rather "time" can change so much. nt

[JCMach1]

69. With Presidents as communicators any sort of aphasia

For whatever reason becomes problematic.

Note, Covid which Biden has had in the past and present can even cause this...

[AZSkiffyGeek]

80. Something I've been thinking over since I saw the footage from the Clooney fundraiser

Were all these megadonors who are getting attacked at that fundraiser? Did they see Biden freezing and having to be led away by Obama? Did they accept the assurances it was because he was jetlagged then, and only start panicking when they saw him at the debate?
I know seeing that footage a couple days ago changed my mind.

[Sympthsical]

81. I think we're going to hear a lot of stories

But not until next year for reasons abundantly clear.

There are already things creeping out I've never heard before where it's like, "I'm almost impressed this didn't leak before" while simultaneously not being a huge surprise.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

83. I think some of them have leaked, we just accepted the reasons the administration provided

I didn't doubt Biden had a cold during the debate - that seemed like an obvious reason for his performance. It didn't exactly jive with his performance later that night, or the next day, but I've dealt with OTC cold remedies so okay. But Clooney and Moutlon's statements gave me pause, and watching that footage from the fundraiser just crushed me - my mom has Alzheimer's and he looked so similar to her.
I also noticed the phrasing on his medical report ruled out Stroke and Parkinson's - but it didn't say anything about other causes of dementia.
And I'm not sure how they could have publicly address his health without sparking a massive shitstorm from the Republicans (or damage to his negotiations with Netanyahu - it kinda surprised me his stepping aside before Netanyahu is in town this week). This is fairly uncharted territory - even during Reagan we didn't have close to this access to news/information.
I'm not a doctor, so take my non-diagnosis with a grain of salt. But I do trust Biden, and Harris, and Pelosi and the leaders in Congress to do the best thing they can to win in November and for the best of the country.

[Sympthsical]

84. I think, ultimately, the best choice was made

I did work in elder care for over a decade, and I have a lot of observations and opinions that I still don't feel entirely comfortable sharing here.

But I think once a new administration is in place and people start selling their tell-all books for an easy payday, we're going to learn some things.

[Groundhawg]

27. Rich donors have always ran things. Without their money, we can't win

[Happy Hoosier]

29. Time for that later....

Right now, we have an election to win.

[Eko]

30. I can chew gum, play guitar and walk at the same time.

[Happy Hoosier]

32. Maybe, but it's not productive right now.

I share your outrage. But in my view, our energy needs to be directed to building unified support behind Harris and other Democrats. Anything else is a distraction, IMO.

[Arazi]

47. Shades of " It's too soon" to talk about gun control

After a mass shooting…

The discussion just keeps getting shut down here Under the pretense of “it’s not the right time to talk about it” and “we need to unite”.. Fwiw, I agree with you. It’s so obviously the elephant in the room and if we won’t talk about it now, when will we?

We need to get big money out of politics. Stat. I’d really love to see this as a campaign platform for Kamala Harris, but is she now too beholden as well?

[Blue Full Moon]

31. Yep, and they can vote for them on their own also. I will vote for Harris

Being VP puts her next and was voted for when we voted for Biden.

[jalan48]

34. It's the battle of the oligarchs now.

[ForgedCrank]

39. Until these

high-dollar donors are named and speak out, I'm not believing anything else they tell me. It's too easy to just blame unknown "mega donors" with no name.

[Eko]

45. Here

Michael Mortiz, a major Democratic donor,,,,,“I would vote for Biden, but I would not give another penny to any fund-raising appeals from Democrats,” he said.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4783015-major-democratic-donor-michael-mortiz-joe-biden-withdraw-2024-race/
From the same article.
Whitney Tilson
Billionaire Rick Caruso
Abigail Disney

Enough?

[ForgedCrank]

46. No.

One person doesn't run the Democratic party and choose it's candidates. I sure hope the DNC isn't trying to tell me that they discarded all of our primary votes that chose our candidate because one guy threatened their money.

[Eko]

49. One?

I named 4. You said "Until these high-dollar donors are named and speak out, I'm not believing anything else they tell me. It's too easy to just blame unknown "mega donors" with no name." I gave you names like you asked and now you are moving the goalposts.

[ForgedCrank]

53. Ok, then

replace the one in my comment with four. does that make the point less valid? Every Democratic voter in the country was just told to bite it because FOUR donors said so? Sound better?
I'm not buyin

[Eko]

55. Ok, here is the 5th.

"Before the interview, Damon Lindelof, the co-creator of “Lost” and a notable Democratic Party supporter, called on his fellow Democratic donors to stop giving money to the party until Biden steps down."
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4758332-democrat-donors-biden-withdraw-abigail-disney-lindelof-hastings/

[ForgedCrank]

58. You are

intentionally ignoring the point. If you make it to 20, the point is still the same. Joe Biden got 19 million primary votes, and most Democrats didn't even vote because the nominee was obvious. Those votes were just abandoned and discarded. 1, 5 or 50, it doesn't matter how many donors were pushing for this, it's still not 19 million.
In addition, these are the same people who just 24 hours ago ASSURED us all that Joe Biden was not dropping out and would be the nominee.

[Eko]

60. This was your point and I addressed it.

"Until these high-dollar donors are named and speak out, I'm not believing anything else they tell me. It's too easy to just blame unknown "mega donors" with no name."
Here,
"On a Tuesday in early July, 75 wealthy Democratic political donors gathered on a Zoom call to discuss the path forward for President Joe Biden after his calamitous debate performance against Donald Trump, according to a person on the call.

Only one of the donors said they thought Biden should stay in the race, this person said. All the others made it very clear that they believed Biden needed to drop out of the race, if the party wanted to defeat Trump in November. People who spoke to CNBC for this story were granted anonymity to speak freely about a sensitive matter.

Since then, big money donors who fund either the Biden campaign, his allied political action committees or the party at large have launched a lobbying campaign aimed at senior Democrats in both the House and Senate.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/18/democratic-donors-biden-drop-out-kamala-harris.html

If you have somehow missed this fact that the rich dem donors were pushing hard for him to drop out then just do some googling and see for yourself.

[ForgedCrank]

66. If this is

your scale for it, then I'm not here to stand in your way.
I was lied to, and my vote was discarded like garbage. I'm pissed off about it. The excuse is that a few people with money mean more, so we need to shut up and accept it? I don't believe that is the message that Democratic party leaders want me to receive. I don't believe it.

[Eko]

68. I never gave that excuse at all.

[Hekate]

41. sigh. Today, according to Act Blue, over $30 Million has poured in from small-dollar donors for Kamala

Want to reconsider the slam about the rich donors?

[Eko]

44. You are conflating two different things.

1. Democrats support Kamala. I am one of those, I also supported Biden.
2. Rich donors said they were pulling money from supporting Biden.
The first does not negate the second one, both can be and are true.

[Quixote1818]

42. I really don't care at this point. I'm just glad they are sacrificing their own money to help us win with Harris

They don't have to give anything you know.

[edisdead]

48. fighting on two fronts and running the country

not to mention the Israel Hamas debacle and Ukraine!

[Eko]

50. Yup.

[PennRalphie]

54. I donated to Biden.

That money will go to Kamala. I’m still not giddy that my primary vote was overridden by someone. Of course, if she is the nominee, she has my total support. I’m just upset that Biden dropped out. I’ve been praising him to everyone.

[Pisces]

56. Rich donors didn't raise 47 million in 7 hours. This was small donors. The people have spoken with their wallet

[Eko]

63. I think that is great.

But that does not wipe out what has previously happened at all.

[Electrolite]

62. Apparently, and not only that....

you need to fall in line right now.

[BluenFLA]

64. So what is the point of voting in a primary?

If my vote will he overturned by the fat cats we might as well go back to the smoke filled back rooms of the old days that gave us the nominees and not waste our time.

[Eko]

65. Part of our vote was for Kamala also,

Lets see how that turns out. Seems like she has a lot of headwind and for that I am very glad.

[confoosed]

73. I'm really feeling like my vote doesn't count for much any more

[alarimer]

72. They always have

The real dirty secret of American politics. Or not a secret, actually.

[Irish_Dem]

76. Pelosi, Schiff, Raskin, Schumer, Senators and House members are not rich donors.

They are elected officials who made decisions based on what they think is best.

[DBoon]

77. post New Deal, it was organized labor

Reagan's destruction of the CIO industrial unions through recession, trade policies, and outright union busting weakened their influence.

Finance and entertainment billionaires stepped into the vacuum.

Citizens United removed the last restraint on the influence of wealth.

[TheFarseer]

78. What do you mean "now"

Rich donors have run this country for quite some time now and it’s only getting worse.