I have a question. Maybe it's a stupid one.

[BlueSpot]

The past few weeks have been tough for me, as I assume they have been for many others here. I have been a big Biden supporter - not so much in terms of money as some folks (apparently the important ones) but I've tried. I actually wasn't a big fan of him before he got the job but his good works and essential knowledge about how to get things done just blew me away. I wrote a message to President Biden via whitehouse.gov encouraging him to stay the course.

That being said, I am a retiree. Not as old as many folks here but I guess old in comparison to a lot of voters. So, to finally get to my question (I feel like I'm making one of those long-winded videos), has it just been us old farts supporting Biden during these last weeks?

I know we had the protests votes about Gaza during the primary but Joe still won the primaries by a landslide. Nobody that ran against him had a chance. He did one hell of a job as president.

But I'm no longer in the workforce. I don't have contact with young people anymore. So what I really want to know is were those polls really right that so many Democrats wanted him gone?

I was so upset when he quit. No, I was angry. It seemed like a hit job. I felt like my primary vote was sold to the highest bidder. I was ready to change my part affiliation. But now I see this huge surge in support for Harris. While I do appreciate Democrats circling the wagons (not something we're usually good at) I'm just confused about how I was so apparently wrong.

What did I miss? How do I not miss it again?

[servermsh]

1. IMHO, it was his choice

I wanted Biden to stay, but I also assume he knows more about his condition than I do. Personally, I believe he felt he did not have the energy to go through the next few months of exhaustive campaigning while also running the country. IMHO, if he felt strong enough, I think he would have stayed in the fight. So I think it was his choice. The bout of COVID may have helped convince him it was time.

[democrattotheend]

21. I was thinking the same thing

From what I have read, he was already starting to see the writing on the wall, but I think getting COVID and taking longer than he wanted to recover might have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

Now that I think about it, the timing of him getting COVID was so bad that he might have also seen it as that sign from above that he said would cause him to drop out. Please note that I mean that sincerely and am in no way mocking his faith.

[Ocelot II]

2. I'm old, too, and I don't know a lot of young people. But my impression was

that Biden's shaky performance at the debate was at first blown out of proportion by the media, which couldn't stop talking about it. That kind of coverage had to have influenced people's opinions, evidenced by increasingly bad polls and in a drop in donations, causing further panic among the politicians and the big donors, and the whole thing snowballed out of control. Once the collapse in polls and donations reached a certain point it was probably irreversible. But the reality was that Biden's poll numbers already hadn't been very strong for months, and the poor debate probably amplified existing concerns many people already had about his age. Based on his appearances that I saw on TV after the debate he seemed OK to me, and back to normal. A lot of people seemed to think he was fine - but others were skeptical. I don't think he was ever able to shake the perception, even if it might not have been the reality, that he was getting too old to serve another term as president.

I was pretty unhappy with the way some politicians took their doubts public, but maybe they thought it was the only way they could persuade him to step down. Some might have been motivated by big donors or by opportunism, but others were probably legitimately afraid that he couldn't get his mojo back and defeat Trump. I'm sure he didn't want to give up the campaign since this has been his career for his whole life, but he must have finally recognized that staying in carried a serious risk that he'd lose, and he certainly didn't want to be responsible for another Trump term. So he did what is proving to be the right thing.

[democrattotheend]

22. That's the problem - he was already down

He needed the debate to shift the narrative in his favor and it did the opposite. And the fact that there was no scheduled debate for another 3 months and until after the convention gave him no chance to recover. Obama was able to recover from a terrible first debate in 2012 because he was already ahead before the debate and he had another debate 2 weeks later that he did much better in (and Biden kicking Paul Ryan's ass in between certainly didn't hurt), and at age 51 he wasn't facing any questions about whether he was mentally and physically up for the job.

Trump getting shot and doing that stupid fist pump made things even worse, because it was such a stark contrast with Biden, who nobody can deny seemed old and frail.

[Aussie105]

3. You weren't wrong.

Dems convinced themselves that Biden would win against Trump in the next election.

That feeling of security - be it real or not - evaporated and is now slowly reestablishing itself.

Won't know if Biden dropping out now is a smart or dumb move, but keep watching!

If nothing else, it has shaken up the Trump cult more than the Democratic Party faithful.

They had all their attack psyops anti-Biden details nutted out, now they have to start again!

It's already started though. Kamala is . . . well, the details of her shortcomings will be revealed by the MSM, the Russian dis-information Department of Propaganda and 'R' trolls soon enough!

Expect some of the anti-Hillary stuff to be recycled.

My take?
Joe has served his country well above what is expected of any one person and Kamala is tough and competent.
I'm turning my head away from any negativity.

[valleyrogue]

4. You are correct on all counts. I am so pissed off I can't see. n/t

[Joinfortmill]

5. My grandkids in their 20s

thought Joe was too old, but we're going to vote for him. I think what did him in was not the debate, but the debate and the endless media bashing. I have come to despise MSM.

[Aussie105]

15. The constant stream of MSM negativity does work.

Years ago, when it was Hillary versus Trump, I thought it was no contest.

Hillary had the experience, the intelligence, the inside info on how politics worked, and is generally and all round empathetic nice person.
Trump was and is none of those things.

I was wrong. The MSM smeared Hillary with all guns blazing.

After Trump got in, I asked a female US resident relative who she voted for.
She had not voted . . . her words . . . There is no one to vote for this time!

So yes, the anti-Kamala stuff will come out, and work well on some people.

[captain queeg]

6. I don't really know. The couple whipper-snappers I associate regularly with did think he was too old.

Not that they’d vote for Trump who isn’t much younger. Most if not all the people who planned on voting for Biden will vote for Kamala or whoever the Dem nominee. I think having a younger candidate may bring some people out who weren’t planning on voting. Those are the “undecided” I think of. For regular voters who still hadn’t decided on whether to vote for Joe or Donny I don’t really know. I can’t understand anyone in that group so can’t really guess what they’ll do.

[DC77]

7. The difference between campaigning and being president

are to two very different things. Outside of FDR, I think President Biden was one of the best presidents in the last 100 years. Wasn’t around to witness FDR’s three (almost four) terms, but I have read about the man. But most people don’t pay attention; they confuse good speech with good leadership; good governance requires a different skill set, knowing how things work, and lots of wisdom.

Anybody to beat Donald J. Trump.

[rubbersole]

8. She seemed to be ready for the job...

...and the "old" goes away immediately. The debate and the oligarchs not wanting to be taxed were a lot to overcome. She brings energy and hope. I'm unbelievably surprised at her support. I didn't think it possible. Wait for the Swiftys.

[2naSalit]

9. I can honestly say...

That I felt it coming but was defiant about it.I have been a fan of Joe for almost as long as he's been in office and I was not happy that many were ready to turn their backs on him. Sure, he's old, we know that and the way he was presented on the teevee was truly unfair. So was the parade of naysayers following the debate, instead of supporting him. Joe is the most respectable man in DC for heaven's sake, and one of the savviest.

Anyway, I was hoping, being retired also, that the younger voters could see how he was helping them, I'm sure many do/did. I speak to plenty of younger voters, I was getting a mix of opinions about him.

Since the media have decided to be unfriendly toward us, it's hard to know what's really going on if you don't have a lot of outside contact.

I was pissed when I heard the news yesterday but seeing that the response is good I am feeling better about it. I did vote for Harris as part of the ticket in the primary so only part of my vote was dismissed, if you want to put it that way, I am beyond caring about that part. I don't want to have to find another country to go die in.

Today, I am looking forward, Harris is shining and equally important, the opposition is knocked back on it's heels so far they ended up tumbling down a bit of a slope... backwards. Which totally makes my day, knocks their sorry shit out of the news cycle for a while. Someone here, today, made a comment about trying to recall when the RNC was, like, oh yeah, last week, seems like last year!

Yeah, the narrative has changed overnight and I am now thinking that Joe was keeping this possibility in his back pocket just in case. This was a big, swift kick in the nuts for the IQ45 campaign, did you hear them squealing about it on the news? They spent all that money on messing with Joe and he pulled the rug out from under them and set us on course for the first woman as president.

Pretty fucking cool, Brandon.

Not many of us could have predicted that this would actually happen even if we imagined it. If you had other stuff to deal with at home,it wasn't like you could have divined this one all that easily. I imagined it but never thought it would happen like this.

Anyway, that's what I know watching from Montana.

[NoveltySocks]

10. I'm an elder millennial (Xennial?)

And was all-in for Joe right up until I saw the news yesterday morning. I was crushed at first but then saw how people came together for Kamala and got swept up in the rapidly building enthusiasm. It was a massive mood swing for sure, but definitely for the better.

[pat_k]

11. Age is a factor...

... But not the only factor.

Not sure if it will provide any insight, but I'm 63 with most friends somewhere between 55 and 75. At the begining of 2023 the consensus opinion in our particular "bubble" was "please don't run." When he announced his intention to run in April, the party did what it does, coalesced around him and no serious challenger put their hat in the ring. We did the same. Voting in the primary for many felt like a rubber stamp on a "done deal" that took effort to get pumped about. We weren't thrilled, recognizing his age was a minus, but he was our guy.

A business women's group I'm in with most people ranging from late twenties to mid forties had a much more negative view of his candidacy. It didn't come up much but when it did, there were outright expressions of anger that he had not "passed the torch." They expressed fears that some of their cohorts were so demoralized with the level of division, insane rents and inflation, Gaza, and absence of a candidate they felt good about, they might not turn out at all.

On the other end of the spectrum, in 2023, my step father, 82, firmly believed Biden was absolutely the best candidate to beat Trump and predicted that when the campaign got rolling, the low approval would improve as he ran on such a strong record. That didn't come to pass. Then the debate happened. At that point, even he hoped Biden would withdraw.

[usonian]

12. I changed on a dime (not easy at my age) when I learned that it was Joe's decision.

(repost)
When you're that old, as I nearly am, always doing your best is a given.

It's to make the most of your time on Earth, but the hate, threats and sadism, for you and especially, for others, weigh down on you.

We seem to be in an age when no good deed goes unpunished. Buddhists have a term for it, mappo in Japanese.

I am sure Joe conversed with advisors, some we don't see, whom many claim to follow, but don't. (You know EXACTLY what I mean)



and he is doing what is best for himself, his family, the country and the world, and for the compassionate teachings he believes in, as manifest in his behavior, rather than, and even opposing, the blasphemous misuse of them.

It's a whole lot. His job is not a "desk job". He's all about the globe, and might be almost as effective, and a bit safer, and safer from Putin's poison, in a less arduous setting.

His opponent, OUR opponent, is past his prime, past senility and doesn't have the brains to realize that he never would have been shot if he were behind prison walls where he belongs, but that can be arranged.

This is a repost.
----------
I chanted (being Buddhist, the equivalent of prayer)

I only chanted for what is best for that great man, and got way more than I expected. 🪷

So do we all. Joe is immortal (sort of) and he's still going to be a force for good.
Just without so many stairs.
You think they'd put an escalator on the plane ramps!!

Separately, at 75, I feel it is time for my great ideas to help seniors to happen.
I took notes for years, but the time was not right for them.
It is now, as my daughter just married a software engineer to carry on the tech ideas, while the low-tech ideas (which are great) can go on with a bit less tech.

Things change.
Be part of the change.
I love Joe Biden and my respect for him skyrocketed.

His stature and leverage will increase, in a way that respects his age.

The greatest wish of a master teacher is that his or her students exceed them.

We are dealing with a great master in Joe Biden.

[betsuni]

13. What upset me was how many people assumed nefarious motivations, Democrats as puppets of donors

and everything's about money and oligarchs blah blah blah. Oh no, completely out of the question that Democrats need to win and saw Harris as the way. Both options are gambles and this one seems likely to be the safer one.

[pat_k]

17. IMO the debate just brought pre-existing

... concerns into sharp relief. I saw no "conspiracy" driven by the media or the elites. I think people have forgotten how many Democrats were praying he would not run in the first place. But run he did and those with concerns put them on the back burner and got behind our guy. But the concerns were still there, simmering.

The debate brought those concerns to a boil.

As great as President Biden has been, Candidate Biden had an age problem that President Biden ultimately couldn't solve.

And today is a new day!

[duncang]

14. Felt the same

I was really ticked off. But knew I had to think about just making sure tfg never sees the WH again. I was also upset about who “they” might pick. I was glad when President Biden immediately supported VP Harris. To me that was to shutdown a lot of turmoil if it turned into a food fight. Now I’m pleasantly surprised how it’s turned out. Still will miss President Biden though. Like I’ve said before even though I don’t drink I’d love to sit around with him and have a beer. The only way I’d like to have a drink with tfg is if I got to put a ground up ghost pepper in his Diet Coke first. SS might not take it to kindly though.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

16. If you were looking mostly on this discussion board for taking the pulse of what Dem voters were thinking, then

the sample was biased. Even if you were looking to statements of politicians, there was bias in their talking points.
I see at least a couple of reasons for the bias, and there are probably more. But to mention a couple, or a few.

Message Selective: We wanted Biden to win if he remained our Nominee.

Self Selective: Those that are members here are different than an average Dem, I believe. (more into it)
Self Selective: Those with higher post counts are even more "into it" and more likely, IMO to try to get along and post things that get along better with a higher percentage of other members. (so you are more likely reading their post, they post more)

Situation Selective: Many that felt strongly, and didn't control their posts well enough were quickly denied posting privileges.
Situation Selective: Many that felt strongly, posted with nuance and you had to read between the lines to pick up the meaning.

There was sort of a plan, that we wanted to keep the backing of Biden as high as possible, in the likely case that Biden stayed our nominee.

I think it was these things more than an how old our community is.

I feel that many, like me, that fully watched the debate, wanted the replacement to happen and was rooting in silence that Biden would do the right thing and that our Leaders would help him to understand, if need be.
So, never did I think it was a hit job going on. More of a necessary job possibly going on.

Our Dem leaders were working between a rock and a hard place, with love, but with the need to be reelected; President and Congress. I'd like to do away with reelections. I think that dynamic helped Trump not get found guilty during his impeachments, for example.

And let me add this, many blamed "Donors" and "Media" and "Politicians taking donations", etc.
But, I knew it was because of me, because of the many many common people like me.

[Aussie105]

18. We do politics differently in Australia.

We don't vote on personality.
(Uniformly boring, our politicians - they are mostly 2 dimensional cardboard cutouts.)

We don't vote in ex-actors.

We don't allow mega donors to set the agenda.

We don't have a media that goes in for smearing a certain politician.
(Not to the extent that the US MSM is free to do, anyway.)

We don't vote in anarchist types who want to dismantle the whole system.
We sneer at them and ignore them instead.

We don't vote in shit-stirrers. (Strong BS meters here, inherited from our convict days.)

So how do you decide who to vote for?
Past and present policies, proven performance in intelligent governance, taking care of the fringe dwellers of society.
You know - the important bread and butter stuff of politics.
Something American version of politics has drifted away from.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

19. Unfortunately, it may not always stay that way, you are humans.

As you rightly imply with "drifted away from"

[summer_in_TX]

20. Trump's meltdown and whining has been pretty entertaining.

?si=sPGz6Q0iUfr15OYe&t=515

I loved the way David Muir on ABC News just let tweet after tweet after tweet scroll on the screen as he reported. I laughed out loud.

I think I've got the episode set to start at 8:35 at the beginning of the segment on Trump's frustration.

[mucholderthandirt]

23. I'm old and I was for Joe.

I think he made a decision based on many factors. I think getting Covid on top of everything else he was fighting was the last straw. I think he used his experience in politics to decide that dropping out now was the best thing for the party, and to beat Trump. He endorsed Kamala because he knew the younger people, women and especially people of color, would be revitalized by her.

So far, it looks like Joe is a better chess player, and way smarter, than anyone ever believed. He nailed it. He was right.

Was I broken-hearted? Hell, yeah. I am still upset at how he was treated by his own people. But, to the end, Joe Biden does what's right. He did his job. He selected the best VP he could have gotten, and now she is going to be the most awesome of Presidents.

Thank you, Mr. President. I know my grandfather, a loyal FDR Democrat, would have loved and admired you, and since I respect my Grandpa so much, so do I. May you have a long, wonderful life with your family, and know you have the respect of everyone who matters.

[BlueSpot]

24. Thanks for all of your thoughtful replies.

I want to make clear that I am fully behind Kamala Harris and will vote accordingly.

I just felt so out of touch when I saw that more than half of all Democrats wanted Joe Biden to drop out when no one I had talked with about it felt that way and, for certain, this site generally reinforced that too.

FWIW, I am pretty much out of my funk. I will never forget how President Biden accomplished so much - and with so much bipartisanship - in such a politically divided country. I hope he taught VP and presumptive nominee Harris all his tricks.

Thanks again.